An absolute disgrace (flooding on our new roads)

Random

Is it just me or is it a disgrace that there's virtually a swimming pool to drive through coming from N4 Eastbound and turning onto M50 Northbound? Do planners not account for rain? I know it's pretty bad today but this is Ireland, not Spain !

The whole area around the toll plaza is fux0red too !!

I also drove along the road from Baldonnell towards the N4 / Woodies - again, it's flooded everywhere .. absolute mess ! This is a reasonably new road too.

stiktoir

It's good for the plants though.

mike65

Drainage is a foreign concept in this country

Mike.

You mean this flood! (M50 near Ballymun) Edit: you're referring to another one...

Ah! well at least some can say that they were the first to use the new section of road :pac:

Hecate

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean this flood! (M50 near Ballymun) Edit: you're referring to another one...

Ah! well at least some can say that they were the first to use the new section of road :pac:

At the risk of sounding like a hysterical Red Top newspaper; If you could pick one image to sum up everything that's wrong with Ireland, that would be it.

Bluetonic

Not related to the roads but the Northern rail line is closed after a landslide at Malahide!

Nevyn

I love the fact they put the canal on an aquaduct at the blanch section of the m50 and forgot to consider the flooding which then causes a cascade of water over it's sides and on to the motorway.

murphaph

random wrote: »

I also drove along the road from Baldonnell towards the N4 / Woodies - again, it's flooded everywhere .. absolute mess ! This is a reasonably new road too.

That's the R136. Whereabouts was/is it flooded? Much of it is on an embankment and I wouldn't say any of it is low-lying. We really shouldn't see so many roads being overwhelmed by...water. Design (and I suspect more likely) maintenance of drainage channels is lacking IMO.

Supercell

That flooding on the M50 is an utter disgrace. The rain whilst heavy is nowhere near a 10 year or 50 year event. Its frankly pathetic that its flooding so easily, looks like its going to be a regular occurance (todays rain has a return period of at least once per annum imho).

How the hell did this road get through planning?, and if rain rates were built into the plan, big questions have to be asked of the company constructing the road.

NinjaTruncs

Supercell wrote: »

That flooding on the M50 is an utter disgrace. The rain whilst heavy is nowhere near a 10 year or 50 year event. Its frankly pathetic that its flooding so easily, looks like its going to be a regular occurance (todays rain has a return period of at least once per annum imho).

How the hell did this road get through planning?, and if rain rates were built into the plan, big questions have to be asked of the company constructing the road.

Agreed we'd have rain like this probably once every 2 or 3 years, but the NRA will come out and say the M50 is still a WIP , while they think up of some solution

SeaSide

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Agreed we'd have rain like this probably once every 2 or 3 years, but the NRA will come out and say the M50 is still a WIP , while they think up of some solution

56mm of rain so far. Only ever beaten by Hurricane Charlie in 86 with 60mm. SO every 30 years???

Danno

Concrete a big area and the water has no where to go. Planning is the problem and the more Dublin gets built up, the more this flooding will occur with even less rainfall.

Random

Danno wrote: »

Concrete a big area and the water has no where to go. Planning is the problem and the more Dublin gets built up, the more this flooding will occur with even less rainfall.

Little bit of drainage here and there .. a gully or something running alongside the motorway for water to flow into .. anything is better than the nothing we appear to have now.

Nevyn

random wrote: »

Little bit of drainage here and there .. a gully or something running alongside the motorway for water to flow into .. anything is better than the nothing we appear to have now.

Oh you mean storm drains, for when we have y'know storms.

steyr fan

Notice the time difference between the two photos from the same camera at M50 / Ballymun. The water has NOT receeded. Why not? Surely there is a way the clear this much water from the busiest road in the country in less than 5 hours.

Oh, I forgot, it is Saturday night, and it's raining. We'll probably have to wait till Monday before anything is done.

It is such a waste of money paying planners. Waste. Waste.

m50 Ballymun 7pm.jpg

m50 Ballymun midnight.jpg

covert

SeaSide wrote: »

56mm of rain so far. Only ever beaten by Hurricane Charlie in 86 with 60mm. SO every 30 years???

SeaSide, how dare you disturb the outrage and hysteria with facts. This is boards.ie, such behaviour is unacceptable!

BobJones

only in Ireland!

murphaph

Selecting images at random from around Europe doesn't help. For example, that last german Autobahn pic has a very large river burst its banks right beside it. The images from last night show MORE water on the N3 with the piddly Tolka bursting its banks and it's further away from the N3 to boot!

Face it-If germany and the UK 'prepared' for flooding like us, they'd be underwater 6 months of the year!

Another poster summed it up in the D15 forum when he said words to the effect of "my road used to flood all the time until the council power blasted the drains a few years ago and now they don't flood at all, even last night". It's poor maintenance and design that has us the way we are. Occasionally we will be overwhelmed by nature, but roads up on embankments don't flood unless the drainage is insufficient as gravity will take the water away if it has a path! We had such flooding here last night.

faceman

the roadworks at ballymun aren't complete, perhaps there is flood relief as part of it?

BobJones

Yes, the last pic of a flooded autobahn has a large river beside it and if you notice it has very little protection. If that happened it Ireland we'd have a thread about Irish planners having very little foresight.

Face it-If germany and the UK 'prepared' for flooding like us, they'd be underwater 6 months of the year!

Lol. Yeah, the Germans did great planning in that last pic.

covert

murphaph wrote: »

Selecting images at random from around Europe doesn't help. For example, that last german Autobahn pic has a very large river burst its banks right beside it. The images from last night show MORE water on the N3 with the piddly Tolka bursting its banks and it's further away from the N3 to boot!

Face it-If germany and the UK 'prepared' for flooding like us, they'd be underwater 6 months of the year!

Another poster summed it up in the D15 forum when he said words to the effect of "my road used to flood all the time until the council power blasted the drains a few years ago and now they don't flood at all, even last night". It's poor maintenance and design that has us the way we are. Occasionally we will be overwhelmed by nature, but roads up on embankments don't flood unless the drainage is insufficient as gravity will take the water away if it has a path! We had such flooding here last night.

What doesn't help is the contention that yesterday evening's rain was some sort of heavy shower which should have no effect (the contention of the OP in this thread) - it was a 20-year plus high in terms of a deluge in Dublin. I was out in it for a few minutes last night, and the volumes of water were quite incredible. If you have downpours like this anywhere, they will have an effect - the severity of the effect here was actually quite limited, barely more than a couple of hours in most places, and the usual "woe is us" nonsense that is the feature of this board and most web-based discourse simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Alun

All this "only in Ireland" stuff is begining to annoy me. I should start by saying that I'm not Irish, and have lived in the UK, Holland and Germany, and you'll never guess ... exactly the same thing happens in those countries as well on a regular basis. In Eindhoven where I used to live there are a couple of underpasses in the city centre that flood every time it rains, and not only in exceptional circumstances .. they did it 20 years ago when I first moved there, and they did it when I visited a few months ago as well. I was also stranded in my estate for half a day once after a cloudburst.

Storm drains will ony help up to a certain degree, once they're full, and they're sized to contain rainfalls within certain parameters that occurr every X years, they're full.

BigglesMcGee

soomeone needs to watch the news some more. pay attention to the floods they get in the uk every second year. we might get something this bad every 5 or 6 years but never even nearly as bad as the uk gets about every 2 years.

I thought Dublin stood up pretty well to that deluge yesterday. Sure there were problems but only for a day or 2 (obviously not for the poor sods who drove into the water or the had there houses flooded though)

bk

Yes, yesterdays rain was certainly not just a normal Irish shower. I got caught out in it cycling. I ducked under one of the buck trees on Griffith Avenue and watched as it went from very bad rain to absolutely torential rain, the like of which I've never seen before.

Literally within 15 minutes Griffith Avenue turned into a river, with torrents flowing down all the hills onto Griffith Avenue. I've never gotten so wet in my life.

It got so bad, that a little old lady came out of the house that the tree I was standing under was in front of and offered me shelter. That just doesn't normally happen in Dublin!!!

Glyni

It is understandable that low ground floods but why where there floods on high ground yesterday? That is not acceptable. If the drainage system in this country worked we wouldn't have had the caous we had yesterday.

If it is correct that we can expect floods like this twice a year people are going to have to learn to drive properly in flood conditions. The amount of people who went by me at speed yesterday splashing water onto my windscreen and making it impossibe to see out was ridiculous. The blantant disregard some drivers show for other road users is amazing.

stiktoir

A little bit of rain never hurt anybody. If yiz were'nt so soft yiz'd leave your cars and do a bit of walking. That's what legs are for.

joolsveer

The N3 at Blanchardstown this morning.

murphaph

Glyni wrote: »

It is understandable that low ground floods but why where there floods on high ground yesterday? That is not acceptable. If the drainage system in this country worked we wouldn't have had the caous we had yesterday.

This is the crux of it. Roads built high up on embankments will only flood if the water is 40' deep (in which case the ice caps have melted) or if the drainage is insufficient, either through design, construction or (more likely) a complete lack of maintenance/routine drain clearing.

The pictures above show the opposite position...the M40 is in a trench yet is passable! We had roads up on embankments flooding yesterday.

murphaph

joolsveer wrote: »

The N3 at Blanchardstown this morning.

This shows quite clearly that the water is unable to get away into the Tolka. The river is to the right hand side of that earthen mound behind the trees. The water is stuck on the road because the drains are blocked or non-existant.

the immortals

yes it is a disgrace,

Mailman

Agreed. There is a lot of lower ground to the right of that picture that the flooding should have drained away in to but for some reason didn't.

I blame poor drainage.

BigglesMcGee

Mailman wrote: »

Agreed. There is a lot of lower ground to the right of that picture that the flooding should have drained away in to but for some reason didn't.

I blame poor drainage.

except that its higher ground on the right.

Tipsy Mac

They forgot to take account of gravity

murphaph

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

except that its higher ground on the right.

...but the Tolka is beyond that mound (which I believe was actually built to prevent water getting from the river to the road!) and clearly the drains from the road, under that mound, to the river....are blocked and/or insufficient for the task. Nobody can say the rain is belting out of the sky in that pic and the heavy rain stopped many hours ago, but the drains are still preventing that water from getting off the N3. It's a joke.

stiktoir

stiktoir wrote: »

A little bit of rain never hurt anybody. If yiz were'nt so soft yiz'd leave your cars and do a bit of walking. That's what legs are for.

Do you have a set of waders by any chance?

joolsveer

Another shot of the N3 showing attempts to take away the water.

Motorists on the M50 had a lucky escape last night as the roadworks were advanced enough to allow the unfinished section to be used, but not so advanced to prevent crossing over the central reservation.

stiktoir

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you have a set of waders by any chance?

I'm ready to get in there without waders.........

You Oirish are so lacking in confidance, the minute anything goes wrong yiz are running around like headless ducks quacking: 'everybody is to blame, we are useless, we can't do anything.....'
unlike other countries where nothing goes wrong......

If this is all you have to worry about then it's definitely time for a world economic crash. Get back to the real world.....

On the other hand........sack nature and get another God. One who can provide nice weather so yiz can get back to your dreary lives (of spoofing) without wetting your tyres.

murphaph

stiktoir wrote: »

I'm ready to get in there without waders.........

You Oirish are so lacking in confidance, the minute anything goes wrong yiz are running around like headless ducks quacking: 'everybody is to blame, we are useless, we can't do anything.....'
unlike other countries where nothing goes wrong......

If this is all you have to worry about then it's definitely time for a world economic crash. Get back to the real world.....

On the other hand........sack nature and get another God. One who can provide nice weather so yiz can get back to your dreary lives (of spoofing) without wetting your tyres.

Do you have anything relevant to say in any thread you post in? I've just looked at all your posts and you just call everyone else a spoofer in them. Pretty useless 'contribution' to the forum tbh.

Mailman

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

except that its higher ground on the right.

no the ground to the right is lower but there is an embankment there preventing water from flowing away.

ScouseMouse

Deleted User wrote: »

Motorists on the M50 had a lucky escape last night as the roadworks were advanced enough to allow the unfinished section to be used, but not so advanced to prevent crossing over the central reservation.

I was stuck in in heading for the airport. It took me 2 hours to get from the blanch exit to the finglas exit. Even then, I was concerned the Ford Focus might pack up driving through the 18 inch water in the central reservation. Thankfully, I wasnt driving the wifes Daewoo Lanos.

amacachi

stiktoir wrote: »

I'm ready to get in there without waders.........

You Oirish are so lacking in confidance, the minute anything goes wrong yiz are running around like headless ducks quacking: 'everybody is to blame, we are useless, we can't do anything.....'
unlike other countries where nothing goes wrong......

If this is all you have to worry about then it's definitely time for a world economic crash. Get back to the real world.....

On the other hand........sack nature and get another God. One who can provide nice weather so yiz can get back to your dreary lives (of spoofing) without wetting your tyres.

Have you ever heard the english when things go wrong? Late trains because of frost and they give out more than we have been here. Bit of snow and things shut down. TBH we seem to be able to cope better with snow than they usually do.

bauderline

I would say that flooding is to be expected on a good number of standard roads with that type of "exceptional" weather. I imagine the cost of fitting adequate systems to cope with this sort of rain to every road country would be prohibitive never mind trying to maintain them.... However major artery routes such as the N3 and M50 should have storm drain capacity designed, implemented and maintained to cope with just such events of "exceptional" weather.

Also for the record the last bout of extreme flooding around Dublin was November 2002 I think.... I know,it cost me an engine in a 6 month old GT red I.

P.

Sponge Bob

bauderline wrote: »

However major artery routes such as the N3 and M50 should have storm drain capacity designed, implemented and maintained to cope with just such events of "exceptional" weather.

I think the drains exist but if you look down a drain anywhere around where you see roadworks you will notice that the drains are often full of gravel .

Therefore I suspect maintenance issues caused by construction related debris .....specifically gravel . The councils typically clean them out a lot in october / november when falling leaves clog them further .

All major Irish roads cope with a lot of rain and even if they do flood in extremis they should have drained off by now , 12 hours + later , unless those drains are clogged .

bauderline

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I think the drains exist but if you look down a drain anywhere around where you see roadworks you will notice that the drains are often full of gravel .

Therefore I suspect maintenance issues caused by construction related debris .....specifically gravel . The councils typically clean them out a lot in october / november when falling leaves clog them further .

All major Irish roads cope with a lot of rain and even if they do flood in extremis they should have drained off by now , 12 hours + later , unless those drains are clogged .

If roadworks on major roads are causing the drains to be blocked then the drains should be checked regularly and cleared if required. The M50 is likely the busiest and one of the most important roads in the country. It SHOULD NOT FLOOD. PERIOD !

As for the N3 to see that it is still flooded this morning some considerable time after the event is an utter disgrace. This a MAJOR road no ifs, ands, or buts... The same road has flooded at least twice in recent years, think Nov 02 again. The issue must be investigated and resolved without argument...

The collective band of climate experts tell us that Ireland will get warmer but much wetter... given the weather conditions during the last six years I would say that they are not too wide of mark.

P.

tricky D

random wrote: »

The whole area around the toll plaza is fux0red too !!

Fyi Recently they put GAA pitches on the known flood plain to the west of the plaza with no additional drainage specified by the planners. The extra runoff ruined some houses in Strawberry Beds. Some additional drainage was put into the pitches but not enough - of course.

triple-M

heres some more pics of the flood i took around blanch and n3 this morning

triple-M

note how dirty the water is in the 3rd and last image,by the looks of it theres no drainage at all and the waters just left to build up like a swamp!!

bazzer

What a ****ty little country we live in sometimes. You'd think we'd be used to the rain. So when we get a bit more than normal, large swathes of the city road network resemble swamps.

Why don't heads roll over this fiasco? Oh yes, I forgot - because this is a ****ty little country we live in sometimes. :mad:

ongarite

We had a once in 50yr rain yesterday, no country no matter how ****ty can prepare for that. It happens in UK, France, Germany, USA, etc......

stiktoir

amacachi wrote: »

Have you ever heard the english when things go wrong? Late trains because of frost and they give out more than we have been here. Bit of snow and things shut down. TBH we seem to be able to cope better with snow than they usually do.

Exactly. If the Brits think it's the end of the world then that proves it. It is:
'Corporal Jones!'
'Yes Captain Mainwaring'
'Tell the men to panic'

"We're dooomed, doomed' (pvt Fraser-Murphhhhaaaphhhhhh)