Taylor rules again!

Hero Of College

megadodge wrote: »

If you box out of Bray, have you ever sparred her ?

In my opinion, no matter how big you are, there's a strong possibility that a small, weak girl could beat the sh!te out of you !

She regularly spars with the senior champs in St. Michael's Athy, as there isn't good enough sparring most anywhere else.

I am the best part of a foot taller than her, and maybe 6 stone heavier to boot.

Be real. She's not beating any male her own size who knows how to box. The kid is very very handy but she is also....wait for it....a girl.

If that was the case, then I want to know why Lucia Rijker or that "Coal Miners Daughter" lady never fought men of a similar size.

You all seem to have some problem acknowledging the restrictions of the female form.

Hero Of College

T-K-O wrote: »

Maybe if the women got it on in short shorts or thongs..... Just thinking out loud here

Funny thing is that thats eventually whats going to happen in the womens game. It will become a circus, just as they tried to make a circus out of the mens game once upon a time.

You have to be rational:- no matter how you look at it, womens boxing will always exist in the shadow of mens. Its just that simple. People will always wonder, "oooh, how would she do against a man"......so the game will always be regarded as secondary, not as important, somewhat irrelevant.

To make up for this, promoters will introduce gimmicks. Bodybuilder freaks, confused feminists, deluded arsehole women who think that fighting 5' korean jockies who have no fighting experience makes them as good as men- penis envy men-haters, agenda-loaded promoters. Remember Mia-St John??? Bitch couldn't fight for sh!t but she looked kinda pretty and so the fights sold.

Remember Alis daughter, a 5'10" 168lb fighter fighting a thoroughly washed-up and much much smaller Christy Martin??

I'm sorry....but its freak-show sh!te. Eventually someone gets laid out and we're all in deep muck.

walshb

joker77 wrote: »

This debate is farcical.

Men's sport is Men Vs Men, Women's sport is Women Vs Women.

To say Katie Taylor shouldn't box because she is a woman and would be beaten by a man is idiotic in the extreme.

Hero - what about featherweights? Should they not be allowed box either because if they were to get in a ring with a heavyweight they'd be destroyed.

You are a clown, and I'm sick of reading your diatribes.

Exactly what I have been saying. Hero, you keep comparing her to men which is making you sound really stupid. We are judging her as a woman competing against women in a sport. You stupidly insist on comparing her to men. When will you learn; and that crap about do gooders and refugee councils etc is making you sound even stupider. It has nothing to do with the fact that
you keep judging Katie against MEN, when you should be judging her as a woman against WOMEN!!

And I don't have any problems realising that women are restricted agaisnt men. You constantly state the obvious don't you?

Are you sure you were college educated?

Because if you were, you obviously missed the class which taught logic and reason!

cowzerp

Hero Of College wrote: »

Oddly enough, while we are on the subject, I think Steve Bunces last show on Setanta {Just before Frankie went to Planet Hollywood and couldn't make the weight} there was a segment devoted to Womens Boxing.

Cathy Brown was on, talking about how women have to be "media whores" before they will get the attention they deserved. She basically suggested that Women, before they even get in the ring, have to have some sort of a "Handle" or an "outside the ring" reputation.

This coming from a woman who features in one of the old "Title Fitness" catalogues under the name Cathy "THE BITCH" Brown.:eek::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So not only does she acknowledge the incumbent degree of HORSESH!T attendant upon womens boxing, she then plays along with it.:rolleyes:

Katie taylor was on the show too, on the phone-and what cathy brown was saying was that you used to have to be media whores but its changing now, and that its becoming more respected and professional, so your using this as an argument is actually going against what your saying.

Hero Of College wrote: »

As for the medical stuff...I will say my thing and you will say yours, so its pointless really.

Hero? you gave no medical information, you just made a general statement that womens faces mark easier, nothing medical about it and no facts to back it up!

T-K-O

Hero Of College wrote: »

Funny thing is that thats eventually whats going to happen in the womens game. It will become a circus, just as they tried to make a circus out of the mens game once upon a time.

You have to be rational:- no matter how you look at it, womens boxing will always exist in the shadow of mens. Its just that simple. People will always wonder, "oooh, how would she do against a man"......so the game will always be regarded as secondary, not as important, somewhat irrelevant.

To make up for this, promoters will introduce gimmicks. Bodybuilder freaks, confused feminists, deluded arsehole women who think that fighting 5' korean jockies who have no fighting experience makes them as good as men- penis envy men-haters, agenda-loaded promoters. Remember Mia-St John??? Bitch couldn't fight for sh!t but she looked kinda pretty and so the fights sold.

Remember Alis daughter, a 5'10" 168lb fighter fighting a thoroughly washed-up and much much smaller Christy Martin??

I'm sorry....but its freak-show sh!te. Eventually someone gets laid out and we're all in deep muck.

To be honest I can't foresee it going that far. But then again you will always have idiots like Blatter from Fifa. This dude actually suggested that women football players wear shorter shorts and tighter tops. The thing is it would generate more interest but for the wrong reasons. As a massive sports fan I like to keep it "pure".

Womens boxing could become a bigger sport world wide after the next Olympics.

But at the end of the day womens sport will alway be secondary and IMO that is because men are simply better at 99% of sport and the mens game always generate more money As we all know accountants run the show these days.

I think womens tennis players are now getting the same money as the guys even though it's the mens game the generates the majority of the cash. Could this be a sign of the times changing? I doubt it as the fact that the womens and mens tournaments are on at the same time opens the womens game to a greater audience.

walshb

BTW, WTF have wheelchairs and the Special Olympics got to do with Katie Taylor, and for that matter, any other fantastic FEMALE sports star?:rolleyes:

alanceltic

ah cmon lads sure u all must know by now that HOC is college educated so he must be right, but me thinks that that shiney little silver spoon oh his is impregnated so far up his rectum that he has lost all his senses..LOLOLOL

Hero Of College

cowzerp wrote: »

Katie taylor was on the show too, on the phone-and what cathy brown was saying was that you used to have to be media whores but its changing now, and that its becoming more respected and professional, so your using this as an argument is actually going against what your saying.

Okay.....why does she call herself what she calls herself??? The bottom line is she is as much at fault for the manner in which women are presented and portrayed- none of these women care once they get paid, of course.

Hero Of College

alanceltic wrote: »

ah cmon lads sure u all must know by now that HOC is college educated so he must be right, but me thinks that that shiney little silver spoon oh his is impregnated so far up his rectum that he has lost all his senses..LOLOLOL

I love winding saps like you up. Its no end of fun.:P:P:P:P

Hero Of College

walshb wrote: »

BTW, WTF have wheelchairs and the Special Olympics got to do with Katie Taylor, and for that matter, any other fantastic FEMALE sports star?:rolleyes:

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The principle in question...its about the Emperor having no clothes. This country has turned into a soppy affair where everyone tows the line. You can't put Bernard down but you are a begrudger. You can't say Katies not the best Irish athlete ever, that's sexist. You can't say that a cripple in a wheelchair doesn't play basketball as good as Lebron James....thats.....Xenohandicappers. You can't say the Wheelchair boy is better than Lebron James, thats racist.

The only person who ever put Bernard down and got away with was Kiko.:D

Womens professional boxing will eventually lead to trouble for REAL boxing, i.e. the mens game. BELIEVE IT.

T-K-O

OC, how did you manage to get the reputation of being college educated?

cowzerp

Hero Of College wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The principle in question...its about the Emperor having no clothes. This country has turned into a soppy affair where everyone tows the line. You can't put Bernard down but you are a begrudger. You can't say Katies not the best Irish athlete ever, that's sexist. You can't say that a cripple in a wheelchair doesn't play basketball as good as Lebron James....thats.....Xenohandicappers. You can't say the Wheelchair boy is better than Lebron James, thats racist.

No Herofcollege
you have to compare like for like, women v women of same weight in boxing. same of men.
wheelchair sports people v other wheelchair sports people, if there so superior than all there competitors it has to be respected.

your problem is your comparing women to men, disabled people to able bodied people, to be the best in your group is an achievement and as valid as anyone elses achievements..if you compare well then yes, it does all look ridiculus..everyone knows that..

also its well known that katie holds her own with the lads of similar weight, i've seen her spar when i was in the irish boxing squad, this makes her all the more impressive.

Hero Of College wrote: »

Okay.....why does she call herself what she calls herself??? The bottom line is she is as much at fault for the manner in which women are presented and portrayed- none of these women care once they get paid, of course.

She's the past herofcollege, the future is not like that, that was her whole point. when she got into it, it was more of a gimmick..not now though.

sometimes you blatantly dont read peoples messages proper, or else you deliberatly ommit certain things!

Hero Of College

T-K-O wrote: »

To be honest I can't foresee it going that far. But then again you will always have idiots like Blatter from Fifa. This dude actually suggested that women football players wear shorter shorts and tighter tops. The thing is it would generate more interest but for the wrong reasons. As a massive sports fan I like to keep it "pure".

Thats JUST IT!!!!:cool: And make no mistake about it, Blatter is a hell of a lot more refined than a huge segment of some of the sh!ts involved in boxing. All the old beefs and grudges will get played out in womens boxing far more than they do in mens. I mean, Martin vs Ali was basically a washed-up white, working class midget against a black, educated famous good looking girl....twice her size. It was sold as such.

T-K-O wrote:

Womens boxing could become a bigger sport world wide after the next Olympics.

It surely will. Which means more ammies turning pro. Thats when the sh!t hits the fan. Trust me, oxygen masks and drips look better on muscled men than on little females. The media will run with it, and before you know it "Health and Safety" will be in on the act. And they won't stop with the "womens game" either.

T-K-O wrote:

But at the end of the day womens sport will alway be secondary and IMO that is because men are simply better at 99% of sport and the mens game always generate more money As we all know accountants run the show these days

Thats the truth. But its hard enough to actually just say the highlighted part without finding yourself the target of every "label them able" NUTJOB in the land. Secondly, there will be an impetus {like the nonsense with Wimbledon} to put women on the same money as men. Thats when the gimmickry and the novelty starts. And we don't need that sh!t.

T-K-O wrote:

I think womens tennis players are now getting the same money as the guys even though it's the mens game the generates the majority of the cash

And where, pray tell, is the sense in that? Its equality for the sake of equality. Common sense is undermined by FINANCIAL CONCERNS. Now, like Tex Cobb used to say, if you mess up in Tennis, its 15-Love. If you mess up in Boxing, its yo ass. Common sense in boxing is thin enough on the ground, but tricks and novelties designed to earn women more money are just going to get somebody hurt.

T-K-O wrote:

Could this be a sign of the times changing

Nope, its just PC madness.

walshb

Hero Of College wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The principle in question...its about the Emperor having no clothes. This country has turned into a soppy affair where everyone tows the line. You can't put Bernard down but you are a begrudger. You can't say Katies not the best Irish athlete ever, that's sexist. You can't say that a cripple in a wheelchair doesn't play basketball as good as Lebron James....thats.....Xenohandicappers. You can't say the Wheelchair boy is better than Lebron James, thats racist.

The only person who ever put Bernard down and got away with was Kiko.:D

Womens professional boxing will eventually lead to trouble for REAL boxing, i.e. the mens game. BELIEVE IT.

Again, you aren't reading what posters are writing. Nobody is denying that she is or is not the greatest Irish athlete.That's a matter of opinion, I think she is right up there overall, and you don't. I do think she is Irelands greatest Female athlete. The problem here is that you keep pitting her and other females against men. It's apples and oranges and nobody ever said the women were better than the men. They are NOT and we all know that, so why keep ramming the obvious down our throats?? This baffles me with you

You have every right to say Katie is not the best Irish athlete ever, but comparing her to men and putting her down because she can't beat men is absolute horse ****!

She's a woman who has achieved amazing success competing against other women, it's that simple.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

No Herofcollege
you have to compare like for like, women v women of same weight in boxing. same of men.
wheelchair sports people v other wheelchair sports people, if there so superior than all there competitors it has to be respected.

your problem is your comparing women to men, disabled people to able bodied people, to be the best in your group is an achievement and as valid as anyone elses achievements..if you compare well then yes, it does all look ridiculus..everyone knows that..

also its well known that katie holds her own with the lads of similar weight, i've seen her spar when i was in the irish boxing squad, this makes her all the more impressive.

Paul, he's a joke and his logic and debating are comical!
Comparing wheelchair athletes to able bodied women:rolleyes:
Absurd doesn't begin to explain this!

Big Ears

Hero Of College wrote: »

Okay.....why does she call herself what she calls herself??? The bottom line is she is as much at fault for the manner in which women are presented and portrayed- none of these women care once they get paid, of course.

It's a nickname, she always had it(before she started doing any photo shoots).

I just want to remind everyone to cut out the personal insults aswell, there seems to be a lot of it creeping in at the moment.

Hero Of College wrote: »

I love winding saps like you up. Its no end of fun.

Not a smart thing to be admitting, anymore of it or personal abuse towards another poster will result in some time off.


Edit:

Hero Of College wrote: »

Fine, go fukc yourself then.

banned for a week

walshb

Proper order, I had subtly told Hero several times to try and be a little more civil; but he refuses to heed the advice!

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

Proper order, I have subtly told Hero several times to try and be a little more civil; but he refuses to heed the advice!

Incase anyone is wondering, the piece where I quoted him is from the post above mine, it's just been edited by him to remove the offending comment.

walshb

Thought so!

nacho libre

i actually agree with some of what hoc is saying. i'm not denigrating Taylor's achievements, but i do feel hoc does have a point: if we had a choice bewteen watching Katie Taylor fight on a saturday night and at the exact same time two well-known male boxers were fighting. which fight will most people choose to watch live?
setanta does not sell its subscriptions on the basis of ladies soccer and boxing.
the interest in womens boxing, and sports in general, will never be as great as watching men compete in a sport.
where i disgree with hoc is that, to me if you win a world crown at any sport regardless of your gender, its a great accomplishment. indeed to compare the physical limitations in sport between genders is ridiculous because you could do so in the same gender-it would be silly for example to belittle the achievements of a sucessful flyweight on the basis that if he went up against a cruiserweight he would be squatted.

joker77

Big Ears wrote: »

banned for a week

At long last.

mickoo

should have happened ages ago!
pity it was not for the whole olympics.

T-K-O

nacho libre wrote: »

i actually agree with some of what hoc is saying. i'm not denigrating Taylor's achievements, but i do feel hoc does have a point: if we had a choice bewteen watching Katie Taylor fight on a saturday night and at the exact same time two well-known male boxers were fighting. which fight will most people choose to watch live?
setanta does not sell its subscriptions on the basis of ladies soccer and boxing.
the interest in womens boxing, and sports in general, will never be as great as watching men compete in a sport.
where i disgree with hoc is that, to me if you win a world crown at any sport regardless of your gender, its a great accomplishment. indeed to compare the physical limitations in sport between genders is ridiculous because you could do so in the same gender-it would be silly for example to belittle the achievements of a sucessful flyweight on the basis that if he went up against a cruiserweight he would be squatted.

Exactly... it's not PC gone crazy or anything like that. Womens sports is just not as good as mens. That takes nothing away from these other sports. A dude in a wheel chair works as hard as Lebron James. Katie fighting another women is working as hard as her male equivalent. All of these athletes are pushing themselves to the limit regardless of their gender or physical limitations.

walshb

nacho libre wrote: »

i actually agree with some of what hoc is saying. i'm not denigrating Taylor's achievements, but i do feel hoc does have a point: if we had a choice bewteen watching Katie Taylor fight on a saturday night and at the exact same time two well-known male boxers were fighting. which fight will most people choose to watch live?
setanta does not sell its subscriptions on the basis of ladies soccer and boxing.
the interest in womens boxing, and sports in general, will never be as great as watching men compete in a sport.
where i disgree with hoc is that, to me if you win a world crown at any sport regardless of your gender, its a great accomplishment. indeed to compare the physical limitations in sport between genders is ridiculous because you could do so in the same gender-it would be silly for example to belittle the achievements of a sucessful flyweight on the basis that if he went up against a cruiserweight he would be squatted.

He did make valid points, but it was his insistence on comparing Taylor to men and wheelchairs and special olympians that really baffled me.
I agreed fully that MEN were better overall sports athletes and I would mostly prefer watching them, but he insisted on denigrating Taylor and other female athletes simply because of their sex.

All of us agreed that MEN were superior and it's only obvious, seeing as they are MEN, and are bigger, stronger, faster etc.

I just was talking about Taylor's achievements as a WOMAN, and nothing else, and as
a woman competing against other women in boxing. Forget bloody men and wheelchairs etc. It has zero to do with her superb female talent

Dodge

nacho libre wrote: »

i actually agree with some of what hoc is saying. i'm not denigrating Taylor's achievements, but i do feel hoc does have a point: if we had a choice bewteen watching Katie Taylor fight on a saturday night and at the exact same time two well-known male boxers were fighting. which fight will most people choose to watch live?

As one fo the first to argue with HOC on this subject I'll answer, and its obviously men. But that wasn't his arguement. His argument was that given the choice between Taylor in an olympic or world final, and a fight between the two worst male fighters in the world, he'd watch the two men.

the interest in womens boxing, and sports in general, will never be as great as watching men compete in a sport.

Of course not, the vast majority of sports fans are men.

where i disgree with hoc is that, to me if you win a world crown at any sport regardless of your gender, its a great accomplishment. indeed to compare the physical limitations in sport between genders is ridiculous because you could do so in the same gender-it would be silly for example to belittle the achievements of a sucessful flyweight on the basis that if he went up against a cruiserweight he would be squatted.

Thats was the whole basis of the argument. His ridiculous assertions that NO ONE CARES (usual his caps) was based on his own preferences and prejudiced, and anyone who dared to think otherwise was an ignoramus or clown. Regardless of his actual opinions, this type of carry on shouldn't be allowed in this forum (which i rank as the best on boards). If people are completely unable to listen to another point of view, they shouldn't be allowed debate anything

alanceltic

oh please ban him for the month, we might actually be able to talk BOXING for a change instead of him insulting everyone for having a passion for supporting our own (flaws and all), cmon lads lets see loads of +1's lol:p:p

cowzerp

+1
Hopefully when he's back he'll stick to boxing and try not to have arguments with anyone who disagree's with him, opinions are like aaholes, everyone has 1!

we dont have to agree but should have a certain way of conducting a sensible debate.

His knowledge is not bad and if he stuck to talking boxing without looking for rows he would be a good addition to the forum, i personally think the total amount of times he's upset people should warrant more than 1 week ban, the whole olympics would be ideal as then he'd realise what he's missing.

sston

+1

Most of the threads he contributes to end up in posters resorting to personal insults rather than sensible debate. I'd extend it to the end of the Olypmics alright.......the 2012 Games that is!

mjon3105

I had the very great pleasure of seeing Katie in action in Liverpool's Greenbank Centre last week at the European Eu Womens Championships and her performance was simply awesome, both in the semi final and final.Did not drop a point in the tournament.,against top class opponents There were boxers from more than 17 countries and without exception boxers and coaches from every country, but especially Britain, applauded her performance ,on both nights..It was one of the finest they had seen.,and there were many champions in the tournament from the participating countries.

Throughout the two days I was there KT was a tremendous ambassador for Ireland and Irish sport.There were few Irish spectators though many Turkish,Greeks,Italians and Spanish. She spent a lot of time not only signing autographs but also chatting to anyone of any nationality who stopped to congratulate her.Nothing was too much trouble. I have had the pleasure of meeting many Irish sports stars from various sports over the years - none was more courteous, none a better ambassador for Ireland. For anyone who has not already read it (and I am NOT an Indo employee) worth reading Pol O'Conghaile's feature on KT "Raging Belle" in the Lifestyle section on Saturday 26 July this year and which is available "online".. I have no links with Boxing, Mens or Womens nor with KT or anyone connected with her but I can say that it was great to see an Irish World Champion show such modesty, speak to everyone with such courtesy and irrespective of what one thinks of Womens Boxing, here is one young Irishwoman that the country can be truly proud of when she represents her country abroad... Mike (London England)