156 v Celica?

A-Trak

Looking for opinions on buying a used motor.

I've got between 10 - 12k depending on what I get selling my own POS.
Have no kids, just a disapproving mrs.

Have been looking at either a celica or an Alfa 156.
Having drove a 99 almera and polo for the last few years I'm hoping to buy something that's 'fun' to drive and has a bit of grunt.

I do minimal mileage a year (about 7.5k miles tops.)
I'm leaning towards the Alfa for a few reasons - I go fishing as often as I can get out, although it's a small amount of gear there's no way I could get the rods in the celica. Also not big on models with a spoiler which seem harder to come by, although I test drove the celica and loved it, ha

But my more mechanically versed mates have scoffed at buying a used Alfa!

Any opinions welcome.

Anan1

Have you driven an Alfa 156 yet? If not, do.

colm_mcm

12k would get a whole load of Alfa. The 156 would be my choice.

Barr

An "interesting" thread not so long ago was comparing a Passat v Celica - all I can say the 156 is a far better adversary to the Celica

Personally i'd have the Celica cause I think it edges it on looks. Also the boot being a hatch should'nt pose any problems for your fishing gear.

A-Trak

Anan1 wrote: »

Have you driven an Alfa 156 yet? If not, do.

Am off out on Sunday, It's a 1.6 where as I was looking for a 1.8 with a bit more bhp. But would give me an idea of the drive I hope.

Edit - Also is there a huge gulf between the 1.6 and 1.8 (can't seem to find the BHP difference on google.)

colm_mcm

Given that the 156 wil be cheaper to buy than a Celica, and that larger engined ones are cheaper, I'd take the hit on tax and insurance and aim high with the 156 model.

peasant

How does this grab you for half your budget:


que bella macchina ! (2003 2.0 liter) and no hassle with the rods either
http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Alfa-Romeo/156/2.0-JTS/1109569/

Barr

colm_mcm wrote: »

Given that the 156 wil be cheaper to buy than a Celica, and that larger engined ones are cheaper, I'd take the hit on tax and insurance and aim high with the 156 model.

This is a good point , since the Alfa depreciates quite heavily they make great bargains second hand

colm_mcm

there's no way those alloys are only 15". lovely car, always liked the Sportwagon.

and there'll be money left over for surprises!

Anan1

A-Trak wrote: »

Am off out on Sunday, It's a 1.6 where as I was looking for a 1.8 with a bit more bhp. But would give me an idea of the drive I hope.

Edit - Also is there a huge gulf between the 1.6 and 1.8 (can't seem to find the BHP difference on google.)

From memory, the 1.6 and the 1.8 are both very revvy, the 2.0 is a fair bit smoother and more 'grown-up'. If you like any of them, you'll like all of them.

gary the great

I had the same dilemma, albeit a 147 vs Celica rather than a 156.

Drove both, pondered about, looked at a few of each, went for the Alfa. Got a lovely top spec Lusso 147 for a few grand less than a high mileage Celica and have never regretted my decison. theres just something more classy about the Alfa, plus the Tspark sounds amazing. although when i do change cars next i'll be getting the celica.

harlem

I think 156's are gorgeous and very nice to drive but v weak engine and seem to be prone to seriously faulty electrical problems.

We've had 2 of them, the first one was gorgeous, rosso red, cream leather interior & a very smooth drive but it spent more time in the garage than on the road, no exaggeration!

Spent a grand getting it fully serviced including new timing belt, spark plugs etc, came out of the garage with a fault light on and took 3 more trips to the Alfa garage (which is an hours drive away!) til it got sorted.

My other half's brother had one too, very similar problems, its off the road at the moment because he can't afford to keep paying for it to be repaired!

Check out www.parkers.co.uk - I was tempted to buy another 156 recently because I love their styling but see how many negative owners reviews there are of them.
The one that decided it for me was the customers review where they posted a photo of their alfa on the back of a tow truck on the way to be scrapped :eek:

alias no.9

The 156 is not as practical as you might think. I just got rid of mine after nearly 3 years for that very reason. The rear seats do not fold on the saloon but there is a ski flap behind the the arm rest which does allow you carry some longer items and may prove enough for your fishing rods. The estate overcomes this problem with the seats folding.
The 1.8 from 1998 to 2001 was 144bhp but from 2001 on that was reduced to 140bhp due to the addition of an extra catalytic converter and revised ignition system to meet emissions regulations. The 1.6 has 120bhp, the 2.0 twin spark has 155bhp and the 2.0jts has 165bhp.
Mechanically, they're not as scary as some people would have you think. I think mechanics sometimes play up their tempremental reputation to justify charging customers extra. The engine does burn oil at what might seem like an alarming rate coming from an almera but this is normal so you need to check it weekly and top it up as necessary. Oil and filter changes are a doddle. Timing belts are a weak spot, they need doing every 32k miles, costly at dealers but if you overlook it it will be €€€. I did mine myself, you need a few extra tools and plenty of time but not terribly difficult. If the engine sounds like a diesel, the cam variator will need to be replaced with the cambelt, this is the device that controls the variable valve timing.
The suspension takes a hammering on irish roads, thats the price you pay for the handling. The top wishbones at the front are a common problem and you'll hear a squeaking going over speedbumps as a symptom. Again I've replaced mine DIY without much difficulty. At the rear all bushings wear heavily. For the transverse arm bushings, you just replace the arm and it's only marginally more difficult than changing a wheel but the bushing at the bottom of the strut connected to the trailing arm is a complete b!tc#, only €8 for the part but a complete b!tc# to change.
I've never kept a car for as long as the 156 before, I got rid of all previous cars because I was bored with them. The 156 brought a smile to my face every time I drove it. I havent bought a new car yet but a 156 sportwagon could be on the cards, I've never even bought a second car from the same manufacturer, never mind the same model.
If you're looking to buy one, try and find one that has just had the cambelt (and variator if it's noisey) changed and has recently been through the NCT which will mean the suspension is in good nick. Check the temperature gauge goes up close to 90 and stays pretty steady on the open road, if it is down at 70, the thermostat is shot (they generally fail open rather than closed so overheating is not a problem), quick and easy to replace but make sure the dealer does it for you. The spark plugs are pricey but last for 60k miles, try and get the dealer to fit a new set before you buy. If all these things are sorted, you're routine maintenance will be just oil and filter changes for 35k miles until the cam belt is due again, and of course brakes and tyres as needed which will depend on how you drive it.
As for the celica, I've got no personal experience but I've always been a fan of the sharp styling of the latest generation. I never cared much for the lardy styling on the previous one.

unkel

Quality post there, alias. Must read for any prospective 156 owners

smash

Alfa all the way!

miju

A-Trak wrote: »

Edit - Also is there a huge gulf between the 1.6 and 1.8 (can't seem to find the BHP difference on google.)

IIRC theres about a 25 BHP difference between the 1.6 and 1.8 . As for the OPs dillema I'm obviously biased but suffice to say I've been driving Alfas for years without any major problems and they're great fun to drive.

A-Trak

Thanks one and all, to say I'm now sold on 156.

I'll dole out the thanks in the morning, and after now armed with some info no amount of searching on google could provide, (thanks alias no 9 and all,) I'll let you know how much I save off the sticker price.

miju

you wont be dissapointed

Nonoperational

That about sums up the 156!

RobAMerc

I would rarely say this - but if its a 1.6 Alfa - I would go the Celica
The 1.8 is a closer thing and the 2.0 I would take the Alfa.

The 1.6 I found gutless.
The 1.8 quicker, nicer but you'll need to keep it on song.
The 2.0 felt genuinely quick and much more relaxed as its far torqueryer.

I have a soft spot for the Sportwagon too - it looks better and is handier.

VH

werent most 1.6s 105 or so bhp?

op youd pick up the 2.5 for buttons or maybe even the gta.

ShadowHearth

i would not touch alfa, its all know fact that alfas just falling apart. Were talking with a few people who fixing cars, and they could not say a good thing about them.

There is a reason why they drop in price so cheap, its theyr biuld quality. And they dont drive so good, as they look.

Now i did not owned one, but i whanted to buy one, i tryed to drive it. Talked to poeple about it, read in the internet. and i skipped.

I would go for celice, but i think you dont need a coupe( your fishing stuff etc). Celica would be more reliable and more sporty, but lack of space making it a NO choise for you. unfortunatly.

Try maybe subaru impreza sportwagon. thought i would stay away from jap imports. Engine remaping and stuff has to be done on them or you will blow engine in first 3 miles. long story.

Henry Ford III

peasant wrote: »

How does this grab you for half your budget:


que bella macchina ! (2003 2.0 liter) and no hassle with the rods either
http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Alfa-Romeo/156/2.0-JTS/1109569/

Wow that's a lot of car for that sort of money. I've driven a few 156's and enjoyed them.

cjt156

VH wrote: »

werent most 1.6s 105 or so bhp?

op youd pick up the 2.5 for buttons or maybe even the gta.

1.6 is 120 bhp, pretty good for a normally aspirated engine from the last decade. V6s are rare in Ireland for cost reasons, GTAs are rarer than dinosaur droppings.

As Rob says above the 2.0 is the 4-pot to get, I've owned the 1.8 and a 2.0, put over 100K miles on them without a hitch.

Alias - quality post. Buyers abide by this advice & you won't go far wrong.

SH - um, yeah...

edit; that SW is lovely; and those are definitely 17"s

siralfalot

what the hell is hapening here? Alfa threads without the hell and fire and the brimstone?? is that the four horsemen i see? recomending an Alfa over a Toyota??

today is a great day :cool:

by the way, what you need is a 2.4 diesel 156, best of the lot short of the GTA

Nonoperational

ShadowHearth wrote: »

i would not touch alfa, its all know fact that alfas just falling apart. Were talking with a few people who fixing cars, and they could not say a good thing about them.

There is a reason why they drop in price so cheap, its theyr biuld quality. And they dont drive so good, as they look.

Now i did not owned one, but i whanted to buy one, i tryed to drive it. Talked to poeple about it, read in the internet. and i skipped.

I would go for celice, but i think you dont need a coupe( your fishing stuff etc). Celica would be more reliable and more sporty, but lack of space making it a NO choise for you. unfortunatly.

Try maybe subaru impreza sportwagon. thought i would stay away from jap imports. Engine remaping and stuff has to be done on them or you will blow engine in first 3 miles. long story.

YAWN....same old same old.

cjt156

siralfalot wrote: »

by the way, what you need is a 2.4 diesel 156, best of the lot short of the GTA

Smelly derv drivers go stand in the naughty corner!;)

VH

1.6 is 120 bhp, pretty good for a normally aspirated engine from the last decade.

sorry was thinking of the 147

unkel

siralfalot wrote: »

by the way, what you need is a 2.4 diesel 156, best of the lot short of the GTA

Dunno about that last bit

But I'd recommend the 2.4 diesel too.

superjosh9

alias - fantastic!!

if only everyone on board had such detailed posts we'd be flying.

OP, like the others suggested, sounds like the Sportwagon might suit... Has a classless look about it, more so than the saloon imo.

Eoin

I had the 1.6 156 for 2 years, and of my 6 cars to date it has been the most reliable, believe it or not. Just needed normal servicing and new pads & discs. My dad has a 2.0 model he got new in 1998, and not one problem - just standard servicing all the way.

At the time I defended the 1.6 version but looking back, it wasn't powerful enough. Still a nice drive around town, and competent enough on the motorway. The 2.0 will be well worth looking at, if it doesn't affect your insurance too much.

That sportswagon Peasant linked to looks excellent value for money.

cjt156

VH wrote: »

sorry was thinking of the 147

Same engine; dates back to the 145/146 IIRC.

alias no.9

cjt156 wrote: »

Same engine; dates back to the 145/146 IIRC.

There was a detuned 105bhp 1.6 in the 147 available in the UK as well as the 120bhp version. I don't think it was ever sold new here but there may well be some used imports around the place.

ChazMichael

Hey, I noticed this topic was a bit one sided in that mainly the Alfa's were being discussed, so i thought i'd offer some positive feedback about the Celica.

I owned a 01 140BHP Celica for 4 years, and was delighted with it. I sold it six weeks ago and miss it terrible. (Reason was i wanted to move up in year).
The Celica has excellent reliability and build quality is great. It has a decent amount of poke, high revving engine, nice exhaust rasp and is fun to drive. The six speed gearbox works well with the engine and fuel efficieny is quite good.

Ok, the boot isn't huge but is has split folding rear seats and the boot door is large. (I figured out a way of getting my mountain bike into it with out taking off the front wheel! Da da!)

I'd definitely recommend this car. It's a shame Toyota have dis-continued the Celica. (Not to mention the Supra and MR-2).

There are a few things to look out for when buying. Rather than go into them I'd recommend you look at the Celica Club UK website for tips and ideas.

T

cabrwab

Wow complete shock!
The 156 sportswagon is the only estate i would spend money on! Lovely looking car, pity about reliabilty issues and build quality.

No person can give you any more info then alias has, so to say im sitting on the fence with this one is an understatement!

Id love to own both, think they both look good, but with me i would say id get the celica, just for relability!

If i had two cars or something, id get myself an alfa, for the fun side of life!

ShadowHearth

gpf101 wrote: »

YAWN....same old same old.

Huh?

Eoin

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Huh?

I think he was saying that you were spouting the same old uninformed, biased, inaccurate and generally useless crap that threads about Alfa Romeo tend to generate. I could be wrong though.

unkel

eoin_s wrote: »

I could be wrong though.

LOL, funny

VH

alias no.9 wrote: »

There was a detuned 105bhp 1.6 in the 147 available in the UK as well as the 120bhp version. I don't think it was ever sold new here but there may well be some used imports around the place.

it wasnt detuned as such - it didnt have the variator and so didnt have variable valve timing

Bluefoam

I realise this is a deisel and over budget, but might be of interest.

Sweeney Fort often have sportswagons in stock...

http://www.sweeneyfortemotors.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1081599

Nightshiftguy

OK Jumping in on this one..

Probably being said loads....

Well i have owned both and i got rid of the celica and kept the alfa. I have doe over 80k miles in the last 2 and a half year my alfa has 176000 mile on the the clock and still runs like a brand new car.. only thin i would chane is if i bought a diesel!!!! the car has cost me a timing belt.. about 500 yoyo fited and a AFM.. these are about 350 from fiat but u can get a brand new one from scrappies for about 80 and it works a charm.. regular servicing with an alfa is a MUST .. i change oil and oil filter ever 5000 miles.. the oil pipes tend to get clogged up and starve the engine of oil so changing it is not a bad idea. other than looking a big tired on the outside it is a dream to drive.. as you can imagin with that sort of mileage i drive it ALOT .. couldn't reccoment it enough.. trea it well and it will treat you well..

E92

Has anyone here heard the V6 156 in real life? I have and it's nerve tingling.

4 cylinders are SO boring, if you're gonna get an Alfa go the whole hog and get one that delightful sounding engine. I think anyone who has heard the V6 156 will agree with me that it makes a most extraordinary noise, as good as a 6 pot E28 or E30 back when BMW 6 pots were properly loud. And that's not even the full banana GTA version.

You're not gonna be able to sell a 156 on anyway so you might as well enjoy the experience and get a V6 model.

siralfalot

E92 wrote: »

Has anyone here heard the V6 156 in real life? I have and it's nerve tingling.

the first time I drove a V6 156 the hairs on my arms and neck stood on end from the noise it made, and when i drove the GTA....... well........ its just in another league

RobAMerc

E92 wrote: »

Has anyone here heard the V6 156 in real life? I have and it's nerve tingling.

4 cylinders are SO boring, if you're gonna get an Alfa go the whole hog and get one that delightful sounding engine. I think anyone who has heard the V6 156 will agree with me that it makes a most extraordinary noise, as good as a 6 pot E28 or E30 back when BMW 6 pots were properly loud. And that's not even the full banana GTA version.

You're not gonna be able to sell a 156 on anyway so you might as well enjoy the experience and get a V6 model.

+1

siralfalot

so in conclusion, you need a V6


if you could stretch the budget a tiny bit more.....

you could have this, now thats a lot of car for that money!

and €12k should just about see this on your drive with irish plates


BUT

since its a Celica you are comparing with, how about this, I know the owner of this car and have driven it a few times, its an awesome machine :cool:

unkel

siralfalot wrote: »

how about this, I know the owner of this car and have driven it a few times, its an awesome machine :cool:

My best mate has a 3.0V6 GTV. Some car that is alright. If you buy a good one from an enthusiast, it's incredible you can get so much car for 5 or 6 grand

VH

the celica 190 sounds pretty good too when the cam changes at ~6k rpm - gets a lot louder and more throaty

both cars are fairly quiet (as quiet as each other) when driven normally

RobAMerc

I have driven the GTA a couple of times - and I have to say that while I really would love to have it - I dont know if I could live with it as a every day motor, I found it a bit too un-ruley really. I think the 2.5 V6 would be a better blend of refinement and poke with alot less torque steer too !

A-Trak

A-Trak wrote: »

Have been looking at an Alfa 156.

Any opinions welcome.

siralfalot wrote: »

so in conclusion, you need a V6

Wow, that escalated quickly:)

Got out in a 156 for half an hour at lunch time and am still smiling.
Have a testdrive this weekend in another.

Great advice by all, thanks again lads.

CtrlSource

My long distance love affair with the 156 began when i first saw it at the London Motor Show in 1997. Love at first sight!

My brother drove one ('99 1.8) and had a lot of trouble with it, eventually selling it in favour of a '01 Celica incidentally. i MUCH preferred his 156 though. Lovely car to ride in. Comfortable, stylish, nippy and an Alfa

On several occasions a friend of mine who had a modest budget to buy, almost went with used 156's but he was always put off by salesmen / mechanics and their tales of mechanical/electrical woes. i think the key to it is to be astute enough to select a good late model example and you should be grand.

Celicas are bland.

Cuore Sportivo!

S.I.R

neither of the cars chosen are great, from a mechanical standing point,


the alfa's are basically using Green bosche parts and the newwer ( after 1992 ) celica range has gotten progressively worse thanks to toyta cutting costs...



but if i had to choose, the celica all day long, even on the ultra basic 1.8 or 2.0 turbo.... F*** it if it breaks within a week, totally worth it... once your not eddie hobbs when it comes to finances...