wimmins

Crumble Froo

well, was out tonight, and my mate's female friend was out too. met in his gaf, i was there first, she got there, and it was pretty much straight from there to the venue, so we left pretty soon after she arrived... felt a bit awkward on the way there, my mate was askin how things were, i answered, but it felt like she wasnt saying anything/contributing to conversation at all, she basically didnt say a word the whole time...

got to the venue and my mate saw some of his mates, and went and said hi for a minute, leaving me and her together, i tried to make some conversation, talk about the week... ended up rambling... stopping... silence.

mate came back later, was like 'whoa, what's up with you two?!', i tried the whole conversation thing again later, and nothing... tried again later, apologising cos im just generally crap with new people, she said twas the same for her, had a brief conversation about her earrings...a nd more silence.

listened to the artist for a bit...she went for a fag... mate called me over to where he was... i stuck it out for a lil longer and said **** it, went home.

but all in all, that's been just a reincarnation of a topic that has come up with me a few times in the last week or so... i just can't handle girls in general!

there's some that i love to bits, really cool chicks, but, for the most part, especially when it comes to meeting new people, i tend to get on infinitely better with chicks who are mostly mates with guys, or just with guys in general.

personally, i find that groups of girls are the worst. just this horrible judgemental, bitchy attitude, and i just can't hack it. i've tried, time and again, and i just really can't hack it, the bitchy remarks, snide comments, everything from the way i handle myself to the way i dress myself, girls can just be so horrible, and, i have to admit, for me... it seems to be the majority of girls i have this problem with.

after that, well, there's been sound ones who were nice, but kinda... well... dim... conversation outside boys and clothes was just waaaaaaaay too much of a stretch. nice girls n all, but pity the nice ones in these scenarios were just so... well, really not that bright at all...

so question is... your group of mates... mostly girls? guys? mix? who do you find you connect best with? is it just me and the people i meet, or do girls really tend to be less friendly/more bitchy/harder to get on with in general?

and really, general is very much the word of the post... but, in general, ive found girls to always be more difficult to talk to/get on with than guys. but anyway... ye're thoughts...

LadyJ

I'm in the same boat as you. I much prefer guys. Most of my closest friends are male. I do have female friends, all of whom I get on with extremely well but most of whom I've known for a very long time. I rarely make new female friends.

That said, I'm always friendly to new girls that I meet and generally I can get on well with pretty much anyone but I just find myself more comfortable talking to guys. I think a lot of girls are intimidated by my bluntness and find me a little shocking. Some guys do too but generally they get me more than women do.

Wibbs

I've got a few bloody good women mates and as a guy I don't see this so much, unless there are other women around. Then with a lot of women all bets are off. IMHO women are much more competitive with each other than men are with each other. It's also on more levels.

Crumble Froo

it's interesting to hear this from a guy's perspective, cos initially the conversation was... 'soooo... any hot chicks?'... to which i promptly replied that all the women were gay, evil, or both...

got into a whole conversation about it,a nd ended up with the lads agreeing that, yeah, walking into a room of chicks was intimidating, asyou know they were checkin out your clothes/style/mates etc, and were probably judging you and bitching baout yyou as youw ere just having a laugh on the dancefloor.

LadyJ

Wibbs wrote: »

IMHO women are much more competitive with each other than men are with each other. It's also on more levels.

I used to think this too but then I started discussing it with my male friends and came to the conclusion that men are just as competitive as women but in very different ways.

LadyJ

LadyJ wrote: »

I used to think this too but then I started discussing it with my male friends and came to the conclusion that men are just as competitive as women but in very different ways.

The difference is that us men do compete with each other openly and very regularly. Every bar has a darts board or a pool table or something in it for men to compete on and there is a clear winner. Men get used to winning and losing to each other and it causes no problems.

Women do not openly compete often. They are subtle and, frankly, a little sneaky about it. They compete in terms of clothes, boyfriends, jobs, etc. I do not mean to make women sound superificial but these seem to be the arenas that women choose to compete in. Men seem to choose games of skill to test themselves against one another while women seem to compete in terms of social status. Frankly I find the latter far more invidious.

LadyJ

I agree that men do openly compete but from talking to male friends, it became pretty clear that they also do it in other ways too. Other ways that are so open at all.

Crumble Froo

see, i've yet to come across it in males in general... maybe it's just me, but any i've come across over the last few omths, have been nothing but friendly and accommodating... while fmelaes have been... well... anything from weird to just plain bitchy.

Eviledna

I am in exactly the same boat. All through college, school, even way back, I get on much better with lads and find women hard to fathom. I am girly-ish, I like my make up and my giggles, but I also like my computer, sci-fi and other nerdy persuits:D
Any girls that I have tried with but failed as friends were usually too judgemental ("OMFG you seriously loike dont watch that loike star trek do you loike?:rolleyes:"), close-minded and walking stereotypes. And incredibly dull. There is only so much talking about men/clothes/posh spice that I can do. Ten mins is my limit.
The sad thing is that I am pretty lonely sometimes for female companionship, the kind I had when I was a kid. Simple non-complicated fun, with no mind games. I have been through so many female friends that I feel that I'm doomed from the start with most girls. I do my best to be as friendly as possible, but I just can't sacrifice who I am once more for a potential friend. It's not worth it.:(
So I have one or two close friends that I see as often as I can. And then there's always you ladies:p

Crumble Froo

wow

that post kinda spoke to my heart.

LadyJ

Star Trek is great! Screw them!

Jack Sheehan

Engage!

LadyJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6oUz1v17Uo

6th

Stick 12 women in a room and they'll end up fighting. Stick 12 guys in a room and they'll end up laughing. FACT.

Jim

So...you don't have a girlfriend? You're not married? And you don't watch Star Trek?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AArX50Kulns

Eviledna

Lol, what have I started I don't think I've laughed so hard in ages, that picard song is legend and I don't know how I haven't seen it till now!:D

Thanks all, and especially crumble froo for starting this thread. I hope that you will see that it is a universal problem. I bet there are guys that feel the same about men too!

The Recliner

I would have more female friends than male friends

I just seem to get on really well with girls as friends, I don't see it as a problem, get on grand with guys too just seem to collect more female friends for some reason

Jack Sheehan

I think it's because theres no such thing as bitchiness with men. Well for the most part anyway.

Pen1987

I have three very close female friends I would never even think of being attracted to, although they are all very attractive. Other than that every woman I see it a potential future partner and I like to keep it that way. Let hassle in life in general.

The 12 men 12 women comment, troof.

If you find yourself struggling for words with a woman, tease her about it. Once you tease someone, in a nice way, they get defnesive and have to speak thus continuing the conversation. Or bring up random topics 'what do you think of that dudes hat?' her-'blah blah' you-'I have a great hat I got in 'quirkey non-chain store shop' have you ever been there? its great they have 'this' there, I was in a similar one in 'insert country youve been to' where they had huge hats, like mexican ones. Actually come to think of it I'm going to travel to Mexico next time I'm away, JUST to get a huge hat.' There, you've brought up topics to talk on - 1. Hats 2. Weird shops 3. Travelling if she cant continue the conversation from there and open up to you shes a mute.

tallaght01

The Tallaght01 opinion on this sociological phenomenon is this......it's just easier to be mates with the opposite sex.

I prefer hanging out with the boys. I have much more in common with them, as I am one. I often have very little to talk about with girls. But we'll always be uber nice if there's a girl out with us. She'll geta lot of attention, there'll be some harmless flirting. She's not a threat to anyone, so there's no posturing. There's an element of chivalry too, so we'll just generally be pleasant to her. So, it's a pretty easy process for her to integrate and be accepted.

Similarly, if I happen to be the guy in a group of girls they'll be nice to me. They'll kind of mammy me. I'm not a threat to them, so there's no bitchiness towards me.

If I'm out with a group of guys I've never met before, it can be a bit difficult. We're all posturing, and trying to be the big man. I'm a potential threat to them (in terms of competetiveness.....but only if they're ****ing arse-ugly, in fairness :P ). But if a girl turned up, they'd immediately, by and large, be nice to her.

The only time I'd be a bit wanky with a girl is if it's supposed to be a boys night out, and one of the lads brings his bird. I tend to be a bit standoff-ish in those cases.

That's my other, unrelated, point.... NEVER, EVER go out with your boyfriend/husband on their boys nights out. NO matter how much his mates tell you that "you're just like one of the boys".

Thanks for your time

Loopy

I have a handful of girlfriends that I have been mates with since school and we understand each other, we like clothes and talking about sex etc but so not into all the girly shit.

Any mates that I have made along the way since then seem to be men, (A lot of them gay). I work with all men and I adore them:p With men I find they say it out straight to you, you can have a barney and then its like, do you want a cup of tea or what? and its forgotten.. With women its different, grudges are held, And I mean HELD..

Weidii

eviledna wrote: »

I am in exactly the same boat. All through college, school, even way back, I get on much better with lads and find women hard to fathom. I am girly-ish, I like my make up and my giggles, but I also like my computer, sci-fi and other nerdy persuits:D
Any girls that I have tried with but failed as friends were usually too judgemental ("OMFG you seriously loike dont watch that loike star trek do you loike?:rolleyes:"), close-minded and walking stereotypes. And incredibly dull. There is only so much talking about men/clothes/posh spice that I can do. Ten mins is my limit.
The sad thing is that I am pretty lonely sometimes for female companionship, the kind I had when I was a kid. Simple non-complicated fun, with no mind games. I have been through so many female friends that I feel that I'm doomed from the start with most girls. I do my best to be as friendly as possible, but I just can't sacrifice who I am once more for a potential friend. It's not worth it.:(
So I have one or two close friends that I see as often as I can. And then there's always you ladies:p

Jynxed!

God I never thought I'd hear those words coming from another girls keyboard.

There should be conventions for folk like you and I, 'cause seriously, normal girls suck

LivingDeadGirl

I find it difficult to form long lasting friendships with girls, or close friendships with girls, it seems that most of them have no interest in being anything more than an acquaintance, and I don't know why I'm always the person who'll make an effort to be friendly and make it clear I enjoy their company, but alas, no one but myself ever reaches out first.
I do have a few close female friend but I trust my close male friends more, they don't fly off the handle easily, or think the friendship is history if we don't talk for more than a short while, I know they won't bitch about me the way girls do, and they are much easier and more open when getting to know them.

fly_agaric

LadyJ wrote: »

Star Trek is great! Screw them!

Everyone, man, woman, child, dog, cat etc should at least like Startrek (including Voyager). People who mock & abuse others for their love of Startrek will burn in hell.

Wibbs

Pen1987 wrote: »

If you find yourself struggling for words with a woman, tease her about it. Once you tease someone, in a nice way, they get defnesive and have to speak thus continuing the conversation. Or bring up random topics 'what do you think of that dudes hat?' her-'blah blah' you-'I have a great hat I got in 'quirkey non-chain store shop' have you ever been there? its great they have 'this' there, I was in a similar one in 'insert country youve been to' where they had huge hats, like mexican ones. Actually come to think of it I'm going to travel to Mexico next time I'm away, JUST to get a huge hat.' There, you've brought up topics to talk on - 1. Hats 2. Weird shops 3. Travelling if she cant continue the conversation from there and open up to you shes a mute.

I don't think Crumble Froo's trying to pick up women though.

A lot of women in this thread, and I am not trying to start a fight, are saying something along the lines of "It's so true, I find that other women are so bitchy etc so I prefer men as friends". I have heard this so often from women while they were bitching about other women it's frightening.

OK, here is the simple fact: 2 men can be friends, 3 men can be friends, 16 men can be friends, no problem. Howerver; 2 women can be friends, 3 women will fight, 4 women will split into two's and bitch about each other, 5 women will bitch constantly and anymore than 6 women will have all out war at some stage.

Sex in the City is the greatest bull**** ever as a nymphomaniac, an anal retentive lawyer, a prude and a self-obsessed fashionista would NEVER be able to stay friends that long.

bennyblanco

Deleted User wrote: »

The difference is that us men do compete with each other openly and very regularly. Every bar has a darts board or a pool table or something in it for men to compete on and there is a clear winner. Men get used to winning and losing to each other and it causes no problems.

Women do not openly compete often. They are subtle and, frankly, a little sneaky about it. They compete in terms of clothes, boyfriends, jobs, etc. I do not mean to make women sound superificial but these seem to be the arenas that women choose to compete in. Men seem to choose games of skill to test themselves against one another while women seem to compete in terms of social status. Frankly I find the latter far more invidious.

Hi all,
I read in New Scientist there the other week that this is completely true in studies they did with groups of kids in the 'States.The boys would compete openly but the girls would basically connive to isolate and eventually ostracize their rival(s) from the group.To do this they would spread stories and generally bitch about the other girl until the majority rejected her.There was never any open confrontation,it was all two-faced backstabbing tactics.Pretty sick stuff.
I get on pretty well with girls,there wasnt many boys my age around when I was growing up.Lads by and large are grand,although I cant stand the posturing ****(I admit I've probably been guilty of it in my time :pac:) but I'm older now so it's grand,or at least,the nature of the posturing has shifted:/
I feel for the OP here,I think there are so many factors that girls(particularly) are weighing up/judging in their interactions.If I wasnt so hungover I'd elaborate but I just cant stick the words together now:P

Nevyn

Look there are non girlie females out there, there are a lot more of us then we tend to think and yes crumble foo I have been there on a few nights out but I found that talking about giving birth in detail kills thier inane conversations and they then think I am werid and give me a wide berth but I only tend to resort to that after I have asked my 13 questions of intrest

monkeyfudge

6th wrote: »

Stick 12 women in a room and they'll end up fighting.

Also their menstrual cycles will synchronise and attract bears.

Nevyn

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Also their menstrual cycles will synchronise and attract bears.

You have no idea how much like hell convent school is when you are with the same 28 girls day in day out.............

LadyJ

^^^^^

Ugh, I do! At least if you run out of tampons someone else will always have one.

Pen1987

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't think Crumble Froo's trying to pick up women though.

I know, hes just trying to hold a conversation, its almost the same thing sure. Nearly all mixed conversation between two strangers involves some form of 'chatting up', chatting to is the same thing IMHO. Were all hardwired to judge all unknown people of the opposite sex as a potential partner. I can see where youre coming from though.

metaoblivia

It's always been really hard for me to find girl friends. A lot of girls are just very insecure, and they take it out on the girls around them. This past week, I've been going out with some girls I know from work (but we don't work together). It's been really nice. It's so hard to find good girl friends that you can just go out and have fun with.
And I'm a girly girl to an extent - I look the part, for sure. But there's only so much about nails, hair, fashion and celebs that you can talk about. I also really love sports and guy movies (can't stand romantic comedies). It's really important to connect with your friends on a deeper level.

Wibbs

Pen1987 wrote: »

I know, hes just trying to hold a conversation, its almost the same thing sure. Nearly all mixed conversation between two strangers involves some form of 'chatting up', chatting to is the same thing IMHO. Were all hardwired to judge all unknown people of the opposite sex as a potential partner. I can see where youre coming from though.

Crumble Froo's not a he. She's a woman, so.....:D

bennyblanco

bennyblanco wrote: »

I read in New Scientist there the other week that this is completely true

I knew I was an expert on women! Now if someone could just explain that to them...

rain on

I have a pretty even mix of male and female friends at the moment, and to be honest I often prefer hanging out with the ladies because there's no sexual tension to worry about. I haven't really experienced the bitchiness and unpleasantness in women that other Crumble Froo et al are talking about since I was in my mid-teens.. I think it's because I have no time for that sort of carry-on, the women I "attract" (for want of a better word) are of a similar disposition. I don't really have trouble making new female friends either, despite not being much of stereotypical girly girl -- makeup and clothes and what not are fun but I need more cerebral occupations than them in my life, and so do my lady friends.

I don't know if this is unusual or not but some of my best female friends became my friends through me knowing their boyfriends.. in one case her boyfriend at the time was my ex. It's happened a couple of times now that I've been acquaintances or friends with a guy and when I've been introduced to his girlfriend we've ended up becoming much closer friends than me and the guy in question were. My male friends just have great taste in ladies :cool:

cuckoo

I'm not too bothered about a potential friend's/group of people/ranomder's gender - it's the stupid people in this world that get to me. So very many - everywhere!

Clare Bear

It's funny, all through college I had mainly male friends due to my course and living with guys....some of us drifted, mainly the boys that got girlfriends actually....now I probably have more girl friends than guys...when it comes down to it I think my girl friends would be more loyal than my boy friends...if I have any problems I'd go straight to them and you can't beat a good girlie chat.

In saying that though I'd find it way easier to chat to guys than girls I don't know....unless they're girls like me who just don't give a crap....I can't stand bitchy, snobby, up their own arse kind of girls so I choose not to mix in those circles...unfortunately I get stuck with a few of them from time to time but you'll always meet arseholes along the way.

jellie

i have more close female friends than male friends. these are girls ive known since i was 11. i have male friends, but theyre not the people id pour my heart out to if i was upset, theyre the people i socialise with.

in terms of company, it can be easier with men. i was the only girl in my masters class & everyone just got along grand, included everyone, etc. - we were a very small class. if it had been all girls i cant see that it would have gone that way, probably loads of little subgroups & bitchiness.

ive only ever been close to 2 men, 1 was an ex, and the other was a guy from college (purely friendship). ive lost touch with the guy from college now & i kind of miss having the male friendship. it was totally different to female friendship. id be able to talk to him about the same stuff as the girls, eg. breaking up with the bf, but hed have a different way of cheering me up than the girls would, i cant even explain the difference.

i dont think im making much sense here im too tired. i get on with both men & women. but the girls im close with are girls ive known for years, whereas anyone ive gotten close to when im older has been male, i havent made any good female friends in a long time.

Crumble Froo

Thaedydal wrote: »

Look there are non girlie females out there, there are a lot more of us then we tend to think and yes crumble foo I have been there on a few nights out but I found that talking about giving birth in detail kills thier inane conversations and they then think I am werid and give me a wide berth but I only tend to resort to that after I have asked my 13 questions of intrest

haha, after a few failed attempts at conversation, i just poured the whole contents of my hipflask (*shiftyeyes*) into the one drink, and drank up. i dont think i have anything that could quite compare to birthgiving as a way to shut people up.

rain on wrote: »

I have a pretty even mix of male and female friends at the moment, and to be honest I often prefer hanging out with the ladies because there's no sexual tension to worry about. I haven't really experienced the bitchiness and unpleasantness in women that other Crumble Froo et al are talking about since I was in my mid-teens.. I think it's because I have no time for that sort of carry-on, the women I "attract" (for want of a better word) are of a similar disposition. I don't really have trouble making new female friends either, despite not being much of stereotypical girly girl -- makeup and clothes and what not are fun but I need more cerebral occupations than them in my life, and so do my lady friends.

personally, some of my closest friends are girls. one hangs around mostly with girls, and i spent most of secondary school hating them. just had a habit of making me feel like complete ****, those bitchy comments, blatant put downs, etc. the rest of my girl mates (i tend to be mates with people on an individual basis, rather than groups) tend to get on better with guys too.

though what you said about it not being a problem since your mid teens... the girl that prompted me to start this thread is in her 30s. nuff said, really.

Wibbs

Crumble Froo wrote: »

though what you said about it not being a problem since your mid teens... the girl that prompted me to start this thread is in her 30s. nuff said, really.

People do calm down a lot when they hit their 30's, or at least they cover up their crap better maybe. That social competition bit gets channeled elsewhere too. If you've ever been to a mixed dinner party of 30 something women in married - big lease on a car they can't afford - 2.2 children(who are always gifted)suburbia, you'll know what I mean. Men do it too, but not nearly to the same degree.

Crumble Froo

Wibbs wrote: »

People do calm down a lot when they hit their 30's, or at least they cover up their crap better maybe. That social competition bit gets channeled elsewhere too. If you've ever been to a mixed dinner party of 30 something women in married - big lease on a car they can't afford - 2.2 children(who are always gifted)suburbia, you'll know what I mean. Men do it too, but not nearly to the same degree.

my mam had 6 sisters... so yep, im quite familiar with the scenario...

still though,the chick i met the other night, i knew through a male friend, who goes way back with my partner, hence how i know him. i've met some of his female friends a few times before, and we've always quite got along. he's going through a bad patch, so the night was about making sure he wasnt sitting at home on his own, hardly a competitive situation, but how and ever. ill be actively avoiding going out with him if she's there in future, though, i get nervey enough meeting new people as it is, without adding all that horrible horrible tension into it.

Dragan

Wibbs wrote: »

I've got a few bloody good women mates and as a guy I don't see this so much, unless there are other women around. Then with a lot of women all bets are off. IMHO women are much more competitive with each other than men are with each other. It's also on more levels.

I would disagree, i think women just need to be competitive with each other in different area's where "domination" cannot be acheived as quickly as males.

We are still pretty primative at times.

Jules

I would find myself being so much less confident around women. Always looking and pointing and making comments and judging people. Guys are just more, well for the most part, laid back and don't give a crap about material things or physical apperance. I have four close female friends and i would say two of them, well one of them is a total girlie girl, but she never passes comment or judgement and apperciates me for who i am. One is a girlie girl but not as much as the first, doesn't have to wear make up all the time and loves her trackie bots as much as i do! One it a total fruit loop and likes to do what ever the hell she likes and has a mouth like a gutter. The last is totally into computers, guns, gaming and cars so i find a little bit of myself in all of them, i have a good balance of female friends but the majority of mates are guys... there is just no bull****!

fits

Gosh I dunno. I really value my female friends (and my sisters). I was just away at the weekend there with one of my old friends and 8 other girls and I had such a great time. There was none of this competitive cr4p a lot of you speak of. It was just really comfortable. That said, in some situations I do feel the competition and find myself drawn in and I hate it. But its very rare in the circles I move in.

This is totally cheesy but feck it I think its appropriate.

SISTERS...

A young woman sat on a sofa on a hot humid day, drinking iced tea

and visiting with her Mother. As

they talked about life, marriage, the

responsibilities of life and the obligations of

adulthood, the mother clinked the ice cubes in her

glass thoughtfully and turned a clear, sober glance

upon her daughter

'Don't forget your Sisters,' she advised, swirling

the tea leaves to the bottom of her glass. 'They'll

be more important as you get older. No matter how

much you love your husband, no matter how much you

love the children you may have, you are still going

to need Sisters. Remember to go places with them now

and then; do things with them.'

'Remember that 'Sisters' means ALL the women...

your girlfriends, your daughters, and all your other

women relatives too. 'You'll need other women. Women

always do.'

What a funny piece of advice!' the young woman

thought. Haven't I just gotten married?

Haven't I just joined the couple-world? I'm now a

married woman, for goodness sake! A grownup! Surely

my husband and the family we may start will be all I

need to make my life worthwhile!'

But she listened to her Mother. She kept contact

with her Sisters and made more women friends each

year. As the years tumbled by, one after another,

she gradually came to understand that her Mom really

knew what she was talking about. As time and nature

work their changes and their mysteries upon a woman,

Sisters are the mainstays of her life.

After more than 50 years of living in this world,

here is what I've learned:

THIS SAYS IT ALL:

Time passes.

Life happens.

Distance separates.

Children grow up.

Jobs come and go.

Love waxes and wanes.

Men don't do what they're supposed to do.

Hearts break.

Parents die.

Colleagues forget favours.

Careers end.

BUT...........

Sisters are there,

no matter how much time and how

many miles are

between you. A girl friend is never farther away

than needing her can reach.

When you have to walk that lonesome valley and you

have to walk it by yourself, the women in your life

will be on the valley's rim, cheering you on,

praying for you, pulling for you, intervening on

your behalf, and waiting with open arms at the

valley's end.

Sometimes, they will even break the rules and walk

beside you.....Or come in and carry you out.

Girlfriends, daughters, granddaughters,

daughters-in-law, sisters, sisters-in-law, Mothers,

Grandmothers, aunts, nieces, cousins, and extended

family, all bless our life!

The world wouldn't be the same without women, and

neither would I. When we began this adventure called

womanhood, we had no idea of the incredible joys or

sorrows that lay ahead. Nor did we know how much we

would need each other.

Every day, we need each other still.

cuckoo

Dragan wrote: »

I would disagree, i think women just need to be competitive with each other in different area's where "domination" cannot be acheived as quickly as males.

We are still pretty primative at times.

Interestingly, i was reading the other day about how womens prisons in the US are sometimes more violent than mens prisons - wardens believe it's because the men have established hierarcies, with clearly understood rules of advancement. Amongst the women it's all more fluid, and thus turbulent.

Wibbs threw up the horrifying spectre of the dinner party, and I have experienced the jostling for status that such events consist of. The men start off with 'what d'you do? drive? what size are your gf's breasts? golf handicap?' and pretty quickly seem to have themselves arranged in order of rank, then they relax. The top ranking man gets listened to with respect by the others, who lap around his feet like puppies looking for crumbs of acknowledgement.

Meanwhile, the women are skitting around it. Shoes, handbags and jewellery are discussed. Careers glanced at. The children, if there are any, are spoken of proudly. Naturally, 100% of the offspring of those at the event are in the top 5% academically. If there's a lot of mothers there, the conversation will halt at the sticky issue of "to immunise, or not to immunise, that is the question....". Some of the men folk (doctors, scientists, men-in-white-coats) will be called away from talks of golf to give their opinion on this. If there is a woman there who herself is qualified and experienced, the other women will still prefer to listen to the man-of-science's opinion.

The status jostling of the women is very complicated, woman X may win on the handbag stakes, but then she gets trumped in the engagement ring size test by woman Y. Y is then trampled to the ground by Z in the 'supermummy' competition (z's children play 3 instruments, and are attending an organic, bilingual spanish/irish playschool). The women can never relax for the whole evening, it's continual back and forth competition.

Things get a little nasty over the deserts as the relative merits of different diets are mentioned, and woman A has a momentary triumph when she states she doesn't have to worry about what she eats as she goes to the gym 5 times a week. As she relishes the silence that follows that she gets knocked back down again by one of the mothers, "well, of course, you have time to do that --- as you have no children".

As the coffee is poured the final battle is fought. Forget the poppy strewn fields of WW1, these women have dug into their trenches and are facing off for real war - working outside the home mothers vs stay at home mothers. The childless don't get to play in this one, they're relegated to the sidelines. The women-without-men ("honestly, who let the single woman in?") act as a unifying force however, as they don their UN blue helmet and dare to utter an opinion, only to face the wrath of all the mothers as with a laugh a mother casually says "oh, what would you know..." The men remain oblivious as the medic evac helicopter whisks the mortally wounded single woman away.

AAAAARRRGGGHH!

But....while women can be nasty to each other, and men brutish to each other too, i'm more of an observer. I had an epiphany a few years ago, when i realised that nobody else could ever be as tough on me as i am on myself, so while i'll note and remember things other people say, i'm not too overly bothered.

Wibbs

^^

The Sweeper

The status jostling among women is a reflection of how they feel about themselves.

I like myself. Therefore I never ignore, trump, bitch at, snipe at or compete with women I have just met.

However, because I like myself, I often find women who don't like themselves much violently react to my presence and are able to announce, within a day or two, that they hate me and I'm a bitch.

I'm not the prettiest in the room, but I don't care.
I'm not the richest in the room, but I don't care.
I'm certainly not the thinnest in the room, but I don't care.
I don't have the biggest tits in the room, but I don't care.
I don't have the most expensive shoe-handbag combo in the room, but I don't care.
I don't have any children, but I don't care.
I don't have the greatest career job in the world, but I don't care.

I usually find that bitches have a rather shallow existance, and frankly I find them tiresome and I'd far rather be me.

Then again that's probably why they hate me.

b3t4

MAJD post, as always, is a great one.

There are two groups of women I dislike

1. The extreme girly-girly ones where everything is pink and inane.
2. The extreme I'm so much better than group 1 types as they don’t like pink and inane things.

In my opinion both groups are as bad as each other. Group 1 and 2 will bitch and moan about each other. Each group is equally as good at excluding the other and dismissing them out of hand.

I used to sit somewhat in group 2 but thankfully I grew out of that. I now know that each group has something to offer me so I dabble on both sides

My circle of friends is now predominantly female. My female friends would sit outside the above groups and are of the non-judgemental variety. Some of my female friends lean more towards group 1 while others lean more towards group 2. The great thing is that they all get on together. That said it took me a long time to find these friends and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that it took me a long time to realise than I'm a fabulous person (in my own humble opinion haha )

A.

Dudess

I hate the way if you're an opinionated female, that means you're a bitch.

Peared

I think sometimes you gotta just accept that you're not somebodys cup of tea.

Maybe the reason they dont like you (the general 'you') isn't because they are jealous or insecure or girlie or threatened.

Maybe they just don't like you.

That's allowed surely.