Lack of bus routes in Dalkey!

patrickbrophy18

The most frequent bus services in Dalkey are The Patton Flyer and the 59 bus route. Next there is the 8 bus which runs at poor frequency at 7 times each way during the week with no weekend services. The 46N is irrelevant to the point I am about to make. Finally, there is the 7D which is almost none existent with only 2 morning services and 1 evening return.

Generally, Dalkey is poorly serviced by buses. Bar the 7D, there seems to be no decent service connecting Dalkey with the Stillorgan Dual Carriageway or anywhere further afield. The 59 bus leaves passengers with a 10-15 minute walk from the Dual Carriageway. As well as Dalkey, large parts of Killiney and Sandycove are effected as well. Dalkey has a population of 8400, Sandycove has a population of 3000 and Killiney has a population of 10600. The combined population amounts to just over 22000.

On the other hand, Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock are well catered for.
Dun Laoghaire has a population of roughly 23000 and Blackrock has a population of roughly 28000. Between Dalkey, Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock, Dalkey is the farthest of the three regions from the Stillorgan Dual Carriageway let alone places such as Sandyford Industrial Estate and Tallaght. While people from the area in question can get a DART to Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock, it still becomes tedious having to change for other modes of transport.

In extreme cases, people have to make two or three changes to get to their destination which is the reason why they often resort to taking the car to work. If there was a direct route (s) between (Dalkey / Killiney / Sandycove area) in the direction of (Sandyford Industrial Estate / UCD / Stillorgan), it shouldn't take more than 20 to 30 minutes to complete the journey. With the current situation of interchanges left, right and center it can take anywhere up to over an hour to reach the desired destination.

In my opinion, the maximum amount of interchages anyone should have to make in the Dublin area is one. Ideally, there should be four main bus routes in the Dalkey, Killiney and Sandycove area: One which goes into town via the Rock road QBC (a many times more frequent 8 with weekend services on Saturday and Sunday, perhaps hourly to 90 minutely); One which goes into town via the Stillorgan QBC (Very frequent 7D, perhaps 10-20 minutely); One which covers Dundrum, Rathfarnham, Terenure and Town (Half hourly to hourly); and One which covers the areas (Sandyford, Tallaght, Liffey Valley and Blanchardstown)along the M50 (ditto). Would anyone agree with this statement?

The last bus for each route would leave at around 11:30 PM. If this were the case, Dalkey's demands would be completely catered for. The 59 bus would stay as it is as Mackintosh Park still needs connectivity with the DART.

spareman

Anything else you would like there micheal? Maybe a direct ferry link between Dublin port and bullock harbour?
Look this is how it is, Private buses wont run the services you described as they would be serious loss making routes in my opinion, Dublin bus wont run the services because they are losing money left right and center and I doubt would be interested in more loss making routes, If anything I would say you will do well to hang on to the services you currently have, what with the cutbacks and all, government subsidy to Dublin bus is down 6.8m, Revenue is down something like 10m, and the fuel bill for Dublin bus is set to double over the next 3 years, so it aint looking good, unless the patton flyer expands it's services.

SickCert

If you want all them destinations served you better get them Mercs out of our parking bays!
Seriously i drove the final few original 8's AND we were empty, with the exception of a small gathering in the AM returning in the PM.

The 59 bus would stay as it is as Mackintosh Park still needs connectivity with the DART.

Ive driven the route, many mackers are school kids the rest shoppers heading to DL. Maybe 10 passengers in general from Killiney hill, Cluny grove heading to Glenageary station at the most.

patrickbrophy18

spareman wrote: »

Anything else you would like there micheal? Maybe a direct ferry link between Dublin port and bullock harbour?
Look this is how it is, Private buses wont run the services you described as they would be serious loss making routes in my opinion, Dublin bus wont run the services because they are losing money left right and center and I doubt would be interested in more loss making routes, If anything I would say you will do well to hang on to the services you currently have, what with the cutbacks and all, government subsidy to Dublin bus is down 6.8m, Revenue is down something like 10m, and the fuel bill for Dublin bus is set to double over the next 3 years, so it aint looking good, unless the patton flyer expands it's services.

Spareman, do you live anywhere near Dalkey? If you did, you might be able to understand my point. That "direct ferry link" comment that you made is a smart Alec one. On that point, Dalkey was the original port of choice before it was transfered to Dun Laoghaire. However, the point I am making is the lack of bus routes, not boat routes in the Dalkey area. Between Bray and Dun Laoghaire there is obviously a huge gap in the Dublin Bus network. Dalkey is the next town along the DART line between
Bray and Dun Laoghaire.

Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire and Bray maybe major business districts. That doesn't mean that they should be the only places serviced major bus routes. There have been a lot of times where I have seen a tri-axle double decker bus in Dun Laoghaire with very few people on it. This tells me that certain routes are being over staturated (hence the loss of money) and the bus network needs to be more spread out. It can only gain money by doing this. It isn't enough to concentrate on three places just because they are business districts.

The 59 bus may seem empty a lot of the time. This maybe because the terminus for the route is a dead end. I amn't advocating the cancellation or cutting back of this route as it seems to be the most frequent one in Mackintosh Park. However, It would do a lot better if it were to extend its route to Bakers Corner, Deansgrange and Cornelscourt.

At present, Dalkey is a bottleneck with cars parked all over the place. Surely this would be a huge indication of public transport demands. The people of Shankill happen to be very lucky to live along the splitting point between two public transport corridors (the DART and the few frequent bus routes). In a lot of other cities, this demand would be addressed instantly.

KC61

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Spareman, do you live anywhere near Dalkey? If you did, you might be able to understand my point. That "direct ferry link" comment that you made is a smart Alec one. On that point, Dalkey was the original port of choice before it was transfered to Dun Laoghaire. However, the point I am making is the lack of bus routes, not boat routes in the Dalkey area. Between Bray and Dun Laoghaire there is obviously a huge gap in the Dublin Bus network. Dalkey is the next town along the DART line between
Bray and Dun Laoghaire.

Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire and Bray maybe major business districts. That doesn't mean that they should be the only places serviced major bus routes. There have been a lot of times where I have seen a tri-axle double decker bus in Dun Laoghaire with very few people on it. This tells me that certain routes are being over staturated (hence the loss of money) and the bus network needs to be more spread out. It can only gain money by doing this. It isn't enough to concentrate on three places just because they are business districts.

The 59 bus may seem empty a lot of the time. This maybe because the terminus for the route is a dead end. I amn't advocating the cancellation or cutting back of this route as it seems to be the most frequent one in Mackintosh Park. However, It would do a lot better if it were to extend its route to Bakers Corner, Deansgrange and Cornelscourt.

At present, Dalkey is a bottleneck with cars parked all over the place. Surely this would be a huge indication of public transport demands. The people of Shankill happen to be very lucky to live along the splitting point between two public transport corridors (the DART and the few frequent bus routes). In a lot of other cities, this demand would be addressed instantly.

Given that Dun Laoghaire is the terminus for the 46A, it's not too surprising that the tri-axle buses would be half-empty. Rest assured as the bus progresses along the route it is anything but! Or do you expect every bus to be full leaving an outer terminus?

I think you've missed the point that SickCert made above. The reason that the original route 8 was pulled was that beyond Dun Laoghaire there were very few people using it, and most of the traffic was local. Hence it was replaced with the re-routed 59.

There could be some merit in extending the 59 to Abbey Road, and perhaps operate in a circle via Stradbrook Road, Clonkeen Road and terminate on the link road just before the roundabout? It would offer a connection into the 46A at Bakers Corner. But I fear, there really is no market for anything more than that given that the denizens of the area didn't really use the bus that they had!

patrickbrophy18

KC61, I wasn't suggesting a complete restoration of the old number 8 frequency which was 10 to 20 minutely. I would agree that this frequency is too much. I was suggesting hourly during the week and 90 minutely during the weekend as the DART is the more prominent mode of transport. The one vital element Dalkey seems to be missing is a decent bus service going into town via the upper road. For the sake of differentiation of the 46A, it could turn left at Donnybrook towards Ranelagh. It would also bypass Dun Laoghaire and take the most direct route to Dalkey (Perhaps Barnhill Road, Avondale Road, Rochestown Avenue, Johnstown Road, Stillorgan QBC).

KC61

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

KC61, I wasn't suggesting a complete restoration of the old number 8 frequency which was 10 to 20 minutely. I would agree that this frequency is too much. I was suggesting hourly during the week and 90 minutely during the weekend as the DART is the more prominent mode of transport. The one vital element Dalkey seems to be missing is a decent bus service going into town via the upper road. For the sake of differentiation of the 46A, it could turn left at Donnybrook towards Ranelagh. It would also bypass Dun Laoghaire and take the most direct route to Dalkey (Perhaps Barnhill Road, Avondale Road, Rochestown Avenue, Johnstown Road, Stillorgan QBC).

I'd have to say I still remain to be convinced about the demand for such a service.

In the meantimem you can always use a Travel 90 ticket and use the 59 to Dun Laoghaire and then take the 46A from there.

patrickbrophy18

KC61, I will approach this point at a different angle. Could the low success rate of buses be attributed to the shoddy infrastructure in the Dalkey, Killiney and Sandycove area? By this, I mean that certain parts of the area in question are barely accessible by car let alone bus. For example, Barnhill Road and Ulverton Road are the roads most used by buses. From Google Maps, I have seen that this is only a quarter of the area in question. If accessibility to the remaining three quarters were improved it would be better equiped to deal with vehicles as big as buses or perhaps bigger.

You mentioned that buses take on more people as the journey progresses. Would it be fair to say if the bus were to serve a greater portion of the area in question that it would take on more people? Maybe buses aren't doing well in this area because it is limited to mainly two roads. Even these two roads seem to struggle with two way traffic and in my opinion need to be widened. If the current routes became more direct and thorough due to improved infrastructure there is a good chance they might become more popular. The shoddy infrastructure might explain why buses take so many detours in this area. This leads to an increase in journey length which consequently leads to a decrease in the route's popularity.

I have often seen bus drivers on the 59 route discourage people from using it to get to Rochestown Avenue due to the length of time it takes to get there (40 minutes). An imporvement in infrastructure may cut this in half while enabling it to cover a greater portion of the area. It boils down to this. The limited accessibilty can filter off a huge amount of potential customers. Therefore, a greater demographic has to be considered. Would this be a fair point?

HydeRoad

I see two flaws in the argument. One is that I do not understand your logic of how roads in Dalkey could somehow be 'widened.' Are you suggesting knocking down areas of Dalkey, or narrowing the footpaths?

Secondly, and more importantly, I see no circumstances, EVER, where the denizens of Dalkey who spent a million plus on their homes, will be persuaded to leave the S class Merc and the Range Rover at home to travel by bus. There are a small number of Dublin districts, like Mount Merrion, and Sandymount, where the residents actively campaigned to have the few buses REMOVED because they were interfering with the parking of giant cars, and generally lowering the 'tone' of the area.

I too drove the old number 8, and concur that the buses were always empty after Glenageary Road. Nobody in Dalkey uses buses. You could put in a five minute frequency using buses with leather armchairs, and they still wouldn't use them. It's a simple fact of life.

Still, I wouldn't make little of your argument like some here. It is a debate very much worth discussing, to see if anything can be learnt from it. But I wouldn't hold out much hope for your ideals...

KC61

However, Hyde Road, they are prepared to use a coach to/from the Airport - viz. the Patton Flyer.

And that is the sort of service where I really do think that the private operators can make a difference, once the regulatory nonsense is overcome.

I fear however, that you are correct regarding the use of regular buses.

patrickbrophy18

HydeRoad, I am aware of the fact that there is an abundance of people from the area in question who are reluctant to opt for the more environmentally friendly mode of commuting as they fear it might be bad for their image. I know that there is an image associated with the Dalkey area, namely its exclusivity. However, this is a very recent perspective. Dalkey is a heritage town due to it's architectural character and I somewhat admire that. Nevertheless, people (snobs mostly) often mistake this for exclusivity. Lets not forget that it was originally a major terminus for Trams in the 1940's.

The reason why the Patton Flyer was introduced is because there was a huge gap in the market for this service. Once again, I would like to emphasise that word gap. I know that Dalkey has the DART and it is without a doubt a terrific service. However, the number 8 bus service has quite a large advantage over the DART in that it can drop people much closer to where they want to go.

KC61, towards the end of the old 8 route, it wasn't doing well as there was a failure to accumulate. For example, at a 10 to 20 minute frequency the supply is obviously going to end up out weighing the demand. If there was a more moderate hourly clockface, there would be a better build up of people at certain bus stops. With the 7 times each way Monday to Friday arrangement, very few people are going to bother with the service as they will perceive it as unreliable.

As the DART is the more prominent mode of transport into town from Dalkey a lot more people are going to be in favour of it. That is not to say that nobody will opt for the alternative bus service. There is bound to be a good few people on an hourly basis from Dalkey who would prefer to take the bus. At least it is an extra option. As for the Stillorgan QBC, there could be a half hourly bus at peak times and an hourly bus service off peak. It isn't hugely frequent but it covers basic demands.

I have posted letters regarding this matter to various local authorities who completely agree with me. By the way, what is the meaning of that word denizen?

spareman

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Spareman, do you live anywhere near Dalkey? If you did, you might be able to understand my point. That "direct ferry link" comment that you made is a smart Alec one. On that point, Dalkey was the original port of choice before it was transfered to Dun Laoghaire. However, the point I am making is the lack of bus routes, not boat routes in the Dalkey area. Between Bray and Dun Laoghaire there is obviously a huge gap in the Dublin Bus network. Dalkey is the next town along the DART line between
Bray and Dun Laoghaire.

Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire and Bray maybe major business districts. That doesn't mean that they should be the only places serviced major bus routes. There have been a lot of times where I have seen a tri-axle double decker bus in Dun Laoghaire with very few people on it. This tells me that certain routes are being over staturated (hence the loss of money) and the bus network needs to be more spread out. It can only gain money by doing this. It isn't enough to concentrate on three places just because they are business districts.

The 59 bus may seem empty a lot of the time. This maybe because the terminus for the route is a dead end. I amn't advocating the cancellation or cutting back of this route as it seems to be the most frequent one in Mackintosh Park. However, It would do a lot better if it were to extend its route to Bakers Corner, Deansgrange and Cornelscourt.

At present, Dalkey is a bottleneck with cars parked all over the place. Surely this would be a huge indication of public transport demands. The people of Shankill happen to be very lucky to live along the splitting point between two public transport corridors (the DART and the few frequent bus routes). In a lot of other cities, this demand would be addressed instantly.

I apoligise for the smart alec comment Patrick, It was uncalled for and I regret any offence you may have taken from my comments.
Your right in what you say, every area should have a relatively good bus service, You make a very valid point about some route's been saturated with buses that could possibly be used elsewhere, but if Dublin bus were to take say one or two buses of the 46A route and use it somewhere else then the 46A route would be back to the way it was a few years back with passengers standing up to the door, Ideally Id like to see feeder routes operate from areas like Dalkey, Killiney, Glastule etc, to bring passengers to the QBC's. If we could issue cash tickets that were valid for your complete journey rather than just one bus. The 8 service could be scraped and replaced with a circular feeder route that passes both the stillorgan QBC and Blackrock QBC with a higher frequency then the current 8 route, thats something they could do tommorrow at no extra cost to dublin bus, they would be useing the same number of buses and driver's. Every local route could link with both QBC'S with a little tinkering, 111, 45A, 59, 75, that way people could use these routes as they do today but also to connect with the QBC routes.
The problem I think Dalkey has is the fact it is one big cul de sac, I always said that, buses dont drive through there on the way to somewhere else except circular route 59. It is even more evident why you try to get a cab out of Dalkey on the street, taxi's dont go there unless they are dropping or picking up. Most taxi would turn and head back towards the city center so people in areas like dun Loaghaire or stillorgan have it easier. Anyway sorry for the rudeness of my previous post, I must have been in a bad mood and decided to vent here, which was wrong.

HydeRoad

We all suffer from the same complaint at some stage, spareman! The internet is so bloody anonymous, that people can blast off and upset others without thinking, saying things we would never say face to face. People are so polite in public, yet when they sit behind a glass screen, all the exasperation and emotion of the day is let loose! I've done it, everyone does it! Moderators are one thing, but whoever invents a public forum that fosters the same courtesy and politeness you would expect face to face, will have cracked a very useful nut!

Anyway, as for the Dublin trams, that was a time when most people had no cars. It was only in their latter days after the war that cars would have been more prominent. The trams were actually very exclusive travel for the middle and upper classes through most of their life. Poorer people did not travel by tram. The demographic did not change till after the war, and their replacement with buses.

I would favour the original 8 bus route. If I was driving from Dalkey to town, I would drive the DIRECT route, i.e. Dún Laoghaire and the Rock Road, and that's the way the bus would want to go. I see little advantage in a bus travelling 'sideways' towards the N11. As for a 'cross country' route, routes like the 75, while very useful, are very unattractive routes, due to the length of time they take to get anywhere. The 75 has some catchment area where it serves, but a similar service from Dalkey heading roughly westwards, I would see as doing no business at all.

Ideally we would live in a world where people did not rely so much on uneconomic private transport, but that is a scenario that exists far in the future, methinks...

SickCert

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I have often seen bus drivers on the 59 route discourage people from using it to get to Rochestown Avenue due to the length of time it takes to get there (40 minutes). An imporvement in infrastructure may cut this in half while enabling it to cover a greater portion of the area. It boils down to this. The limited accessibilty can filter off a huge amount of potential customers. Therefore, a greater demographic has to be considered. Would this be a fair point?

The biggest delay to this route is its passengers!
An odd thing to say maybe, but they require an extra few seconds to get on, few more seconds to find a seat. The same when they get off.
When the 59A was running at 25 minutes each with the big bus, falls were comman. Departures were late, people were upset.
The vast amount of travellers are OAPs (59s) between 9-7pm with usage being hit and miss after 7pm.
When i drove an evening 8 i left Dalkey with 3/4 souls onboard max, not filling until hitting DL and beyond.

patrickbrophy18

I hope that a massive rejuvenation project gets earmarked for the Dalkey area in the near future (be it in the form of a big shopping center or other big money maker), Not in the village though as it is an ACA (Architectural Conservation Area). At least it would standardize the Dalkey area as a major business district. This would in turn cause a massive jump in demand in terms of bus based transport. This would consequently put pressure on Dublin Bus to introduce more routes. Either way, Dalkey (and its people) sooner or later are going to have to conform to the rest of Dublin and the ways of the westernized world.

SickCert

Car parking is also an issue, the last time i went to Dons the church car park was closed!

patrickbrophy18

SickCert wrote: »

Car parking is also an issue, the last time i went to Dons the church car park was closed!

SickCert, you see what I mean about parking issues? Do you not think the lack of proper bus routes in the area is even slightly responsible for this? I was on the 46A twice today and on both occasions it was practically empty. I went as far as Stillorgan. This point is roughly half way through the journey. It wouldn't surprise me if this was more or less the case when it reached the terminus. It was on a double decker, twin-axle bus (Alexander Dennis Enviro 500 is the technical term for this spec).

Even if these runs were in single decker formation, they wouldn't even be a quarter full. I know it was off peak. However, it proves my point that some routes are being over saturated where the slack could be used to introduce routes elsewhere (for example the Dalkey, Killiney, Sandycove area). In my opinion and in similar fashion, this overload of frequency lead to the ultimate decission of scrapping the old 8 route (On a smaller scale of course). The bus network needs to be spread out a lot more. Fair enough, Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire and Bray will continue to have more frequent bus routes due to their high population and status as major business districts and tourist centers.

By the way what did you think of Dons?

SickCert

Im in Dons every second/third weekend, myself and the wife take it in turns to drive over the hill.
To be honest i cant see Dalkey getting any other service back.
Thinking of you today when i passed the 7D on the N11 - maybe 15 heads onboard i know UCD is in Party mode!!. The few that need to go inland get this, the rest pack the dart.
You wont see the buses going to the station like 20yrs back unless they double yellow the whole town and get them pesky mercs to obey! The rest would object to any future plans.

Victor

http://mkmap.com/dublin shows most of the routes operating to the Dalkey area. Unfortunately they don't seem to show the number 8 and their database seems a bit finicky tonight.

Patrick, I'm sorry, but you are being quite unrealistic.

Dalkey is a non-destination for commuting purposes.

Population density is low. This does not lend itself to public transport. http://www.cso.ie/census/documents/census2006_volume_1_pop_classified_by_area.pdf See attached map.

DART is in place and takes the vast majority of public transport passengers for the area on the dominant NW-SE route.

Large numbers of connections are available from Dun Laoghaire or Bray - one change away.

Dalkey is essentially a cul de sac when it comes to buses. Dalkey is essentially a peninsula, with Dalkey / Killiney Hill to the south with roads unsuitable for buses (there is a 3 tonne limit on Vico Road, the Arch at Killiney and a can't imagine buses making their way up to Killiney Village from the south). Any buses from further south have to use either the N11 or the route 7 axes. If they divert to Dalkey, they are adding to their journey, making them undesireable to passengers from further south. So any buses serving Dalkey either have to be local services or start in Dalkey. Driving a bus past the 'gyratory' by the petrol station is impractical.

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

As well as Dalkey, large parts of Killiney and Sandycove are effected as well. Dalkey has a population of 8400, Sandycove has a population of 3000 and Killiney has a population of 10600. The combined population amounts to just over 22000. On the other hand, Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock are well catered for.
Dun Laoghaire has a population of roughly 23000 and Blackrock has a population of roughly 28000.

I've not check these figures, but the Killiney number is irrelevant as Killiney buses can't really serve Dalkey. Dalkey is at the end of a chain and can't be served as well as centre points.

patrickbrophy18

20 Years back? SickCert, are you telling me that buses used to go through the village main street (Castle Street)? If this is the case, then the street is wide enough to fit two buses going in opposite directions.

SickCert

The original 8 terminus was at the Dart station many moons ago.

dRNk SAnTA

I think that Dalkey should probably have a better bus service, one that goes to the Stillorgan dual carriageway and maybe on to Dundrum or Sandyford. Sallynoggin could use a service like that too.

But that is the most Dalkey should expect, why the hell does there need to be a bus service into town along the rock road when you already have the DART?

patrickbrophy18

dRNk SAnTA, while the DART is an excellent service, it covers a very general area. The bus is capable of dropping people much closer to where they want to go. There are some areas of town which are a good distance away from all of Dublin city's DART stations. Yes, the DART will always be the more dominant mode of tranport into town from the Dalkey area. However, it would be no harm to have an hourly bus service into town from the Dalkey area. Hourly isn't exactly frequent but it would provide an extra option for getting into town.

By the way, thanks for agreeing with me that Dalkey needs more buses. The route that you mention is a very good idea. It could start off in Dalkey. Hereafter, it would progress up to Sallynoggin. Then, it would go to Foxrock via Rochestown Avenue, Bakers Corner and Deansgrange. It would go along the Stillorgan Dual Carriageway for a stretch and then take the next turn up to Sandyford. From here, it would head for Dundrum. The terminus would be UCD. I don't know how frequent it should be. Perhaps half hourly on peak and hourly off peak.

There seems to be a few bus stops along the Upper Glenageary Road which at the moment are very under used with the very poor frequency of the number 8 bus. These could do with being used a lot more. One or two people on this board have referred to Dalkey as a cul de sac on the road network. This is true as most of the roads in Dalkey are very narrow. A massive improvement in the physical infrastructure of the area is vital if buses where to go up to the likes of Dalkey DART station and Fitzpatrick's Castle.

I have tried to back my opinion up with facts and figures relating to the population in the area in question. I still maintain my view that there is huge room for improvement in the tranportation needs of the Dalkey, Killiney and Sandycove areas regarding the level of bus services. At every angle I have approached, people have still told me that there is very little demand. With this in mind, I give up. One last question though for SickCert: There is a huge amount of open space in front of Dalkey DART station. Was this once used by buses to perform difficult turns?

SickCert

SickCert: There is a huge amount of open space in front of Dalkey DART station. Was this once used by buses to perform difficult turns?

Yes thankfully i never had to do it!

Fratton Fred

more buses towards Stillorgan dualler/Rochestown Avenue would mean my mother in law would turn up unannounced more often. Trust me, this must never be allowed to happen:D

seriously, the only bus i see around the sandycove/Dalkey area regularly is the Patton Flyer. There is a serious lack of routes, but the few buses I do see are usually empty, except for the very good nightlink service.

I don't know if it possible, but a bus to Cherrywood would be handy, especially when the Luas is finished and I can see that being popular.

patrickbrophy18

Fratton Fred, the empty bus that you probably saw was the 59. Half of the time when I see this bus it is empty or almost. I can think up quite a simple explanation for this. The terminus for the route is Mackintosh Park which some may consider as a dead end. By this, I mean it wouldn't exactly be popular for commuting puposes. It's mainly residential with two or three minor commercial buildings nearby. On the other hand, if the terminus where to be Sandyford Industrial Estate, far more people would be using it. Perhaps it would extend its journey to Sandyford via Deansgrange and Cornelscourt and keeping Mackintosh Park as part of the journey. Obviously, the journey time would be increased substantially. To avoid this pitfall, certain unneeded stretches of its current journey might need to be sacrificed.

Heres an interesting point. I read the Dublin Bus Network Review in the last few months. It was published in 2006. Here is the URL: http://www.dublinbus.ie/about_us/dublin_bus_network_review.asp. It's in PDF format at the bottom of the page. In it there are plans to have outer orbital routes connecting south side DART stations with those in the north side. As well as the usual interchange points like Sydney Parade, Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire and Bray on the south side, there was an additional earmarked interchange point for Killiney DART Station. The first question I asked myself was, would it not make more sense to have this interchange point at Dalkey instead? Unlike Killiney DART station, Dalkey station is next to a bustling village. I wouldn't even classify Killiney Village as a village as it consist of only one shop and a pub. There are at least 50 such establishments in Dalkey village. On top of that, Killiney village is a good 20-30 minutes walk up hill from it's respective DART station.

The Patton Flyer is a very successful bus service and a lot of people from Dalkey use it. The success of the route is largely due to the fact that it's terminus is an extremely important part of Dublin. I am aware that Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire and Bray are hubs due to their highly commercial nature. However, Sydney Parade isn't all that commercial (bar a minor shopping center and a hospital) and it's even got feeder buses from its station. This is why the Commuter trains frequently service these areas. I would think that Dalkey and Sydney Parade are not so far off in terms of their facilities. Dalkey has two nursing homes in the area which more or less equates to the importance of a hospital as it is a similar type of job. All Dalkey is missing is a shopping center.

Fratton, do you not think that (in time) Dalkey could become an additional hub or interchange point for bus services? The one problem about Dalkey is accesibility due to the tight nature of it's roads. Therefore, major infrastructural improvements would need to be carried out. Alternatively, Glenageary Station could be an interchange as it is more accessible. Albert Road and Adelaide Road would have to be turned into a massive one way system to facilitate this. These roads are parallel to each other. With a one way system in place, Adelaide Road could be used for south-east bound traffic and Albert Road could be used for north-west bound traffic. Glenageary Station is in between these two roads. The distance is only a minute walk (if even) to either road making it perfect. It would pass here coming from Sandycove, Dalkey and Killiney Village and could continue westbound to the likes of Cherrywood, Sandyford, Dundrum or UCD and maybe Tallaght.

Victor

The 59 is there in part to serve the National Rehabilitation Hosptial opposite Mackintosh Park.

SickCert

I think the rear pathway has been closed since they sold off the horse field.

Fratton Fred

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Fratton, do you not think that (in time) Dalkey could become an additional hub or interchange point for bus services? The one problem about Dalkey is accesibility due to the tight nature of it's roads. Therefore, major infrastructural improvements would need to be carried out. Alternatively, Glenageary Station could be an interchange as it is more accessible. Albert Road and Adelaide Road would have to be turned into a massive one way system to facilitate this. These roads are parallel to each other. With a one way system in place, Adelaide Road could be used for south-east bound traffic and Albert Road could be used for north-west bound traffic. Glenageary Station is in between these two roads. The distance is only a minute walk (if even) to either road making it perfect. It would pass here coming from Sandycove, Dalkey and Killiney Village and could continue westbound to the likes of Cherrywood, Sandyford, Dundrum or UCD and maybe Tallaght.

I disagree, I think Cherrywood should be the terminus and it should have plenty of routes into Dun Laoghaire, Bray, Dalkey etc. thereby linking the Luas and the Dart.

Personally, I would hate to see more buses in Dalkey main street, its bad enough with all the Range Rovers and Q7s

iwudluvit

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Fratton, do you not think that (in time) Dalkey could become an additional hub or interchange point for bus services? .

No, geographically it's a little outpost, corner of dublin. The town is just too small to accomodate traffic in or out. The only workable ways in are from the north north west; DL, Glenageary, Barnhill road. There's no workable route out the south east end.

hubs should be more central. dalkey will always be the end of a spoke.

patrickbrophy18

iwudluvit wrote: »

No, geographically it's a little outpost, corner of dublin. The town is just too small to accomodate traffic in or out. The only workable ways in are from the north north west; DL, Glenageary, Barnhill road. There's no workable route out the south east end.

hubs should be more central. dalkey will always be the end of a spoke.

iwudluvit, the village part of Dalkey may have been designated an Architectural Conservation Area (ACA). However, I wouldn't say that it "will always be the end of a spoke". Just because an area is designated as an ACA doesn't mean to say that it's future is set in stone. Traffic congestion has been an issue in Dalkey for the last decade and is ever increasing. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Dalkey were to be earmarked for a major infrastructure improvement in the next 2 to 5 years. Eventually, this will have to be carried out in Dalkey and it will have to have proper west/northwest bound bus services. What if a shopping center like the ones in Blackrock or St. Stephens Green was planned for Dalkey?