From the examiner

bottletops

:mad::mad::mad: FFS, there are some a-holes on our town. This is a disgrace. :mad::mad::mad:

Carlow officials to probe racist abuse claim
24 July 2008


Carlow’s Coiste na nOg is to launch an investigation into claims that a young Nigerian footballer was subjected to racist abuse from spectators during an under 14 game earlier this week.



Teboga Sebala, who moved to Carlow town with his family six years ago, had to endure a torrent of racist abuse from the sidelines as he played for Eire Og in an under 14 semi-final against town rivals O’Hanrahan’s last Monday night.

Adrian Tomlin, whose son Joe is a team-mate of Teboga’s and who was a spectator at the game along with his wife, described how a group of young girls, encouraged by a group of adults nearby, shouted obscene and racial abuse at the young Nigerian throughout the game.

He explained: "There were obscene racial comments like ’kill the f***ing n***er and the like. It was ongoing throughout the match and Teboga was visibly upset."

Tomlin, who made a complaint to Carlow officials after the game, said he pulled his wife away when she asked them to stop because the group turned on her and she was in tears.

"I am beside myself, I am thinking of pulling my son from the sport," he added.
"I come from the north of England where racial tension is a big problem and I bring up my children to be against this kind of behaviour."

wheres me jumpa

This is a common occurance. Im not sure it will ever go away. What did surprise me about it, was that it was a game between two town teams in a town venue, i,e. there would have been a large crowd at it. Which means that there were a lot of people observing this and nothing was done about it.

Ive seen the above happen at games where you are literally in the middle of nowhere and there is nodoby around to stand up for moral decency.

newestUser

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I've encountered overtly/aggressively racist people many times in Carlow. I'd go as far as saying that in many circles, being racist in Carlow will make you more friends than condemning such behaviour would.

bottletops

newestUser wrote: »

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I've encountered overtly/aggressively racist people many times in Carlow. I'd go as far as saying that in many circles, being racist in Carlow will make you more friends than condemning such behaviour would.

Not any circles I know of. Can you explain?

newestUser

Friends, family, and their associates. I'm not naming names. Although I've little to do with Carlow these days, I've frequently encountered racist sentiment there.

fricatus

newestUser wrote: »

Friends, family, and their associates. I'm not naming names. Although I've little to do with Carlow these days, I've frequently encountered racist sentiment there.

In fairness it's not a Carlow thing - it's prevalent among certain circles. If I came out with racist sentiment among my school friends, my girlfriend's mates or at work, I'd be shot down in a second.

However, at a family dinner over Christmas, there was an outpouring of hatred against immigrants, especially Africans. I tried to put forward the opposing view, but I was quickly shouted down, even by my brother, who I never thought would be racist. I ate the head off him when I had him in private later.

That's what newestUser probably means by certain circles. I certainly understand what he's talking about.

The funny thing is that out of all the circles I move in, my family are the ones with least experience of immigration (or emigration either). In fact I'm the only one among them who has a) worked in another country or b) worked directly with people from another country (as in, in the same team - Polish cleaners in their offices don't count).

darkbeatz

wheres me jumpa wrote: »

This is a common occurance. Im not sure it will ever go away. What did surprise me about it, was that it was a game between two town teams in a town venue, i,e. there would have been a large crowd at it. Which means that there were a lot of people observing this and nothing was done about it.

Ive seen the above happen at games where you are literally in the middle of nowhere and there is nodoby around to stand up for moral decency.

why didnt you say something?

wheres me jumpa

darkbeatz wrote: »

why didnt you say something?

I am speaking from the point of view of a player on the pitch. My point above was referring to remote locations where many matches are played. The type of places where you just want to get in, get the game played and get out with as little fuss as possible.

The reason I was surprised at the above story was because it was between two large teams, with many spectators and nobody(I include match/ground officials) intervened.

stick-dan

It's a fcukin outrage is what it is. Are certain people in carlow so close minded that they simply can't bear to have any race other than their own in their locality. It is unfortunately a common occurence in carlow and seems to be a common occurence with regard to sporting events involving a mix of races in carlow. Of course this is not just an incident that takes place in carlow it is very much indeed a national problem that needs to be addressed urgently. Simple incidents such as this may in their isolated occurences seem like once off problems but this sort of going on breeds a real air of racist hate in communities that can always potentially spill over into violent consequences.

It is however all very good of us here to say,whilst in the security of boards.ie, that person A should have done this and person B should have done that but ask yourself if you were at that match and a group of people starting hurling racist abuse, of course you would feel ashamed to be a member of the same community as these racists and you would feel an unbelievable sense of sympathy for the poor lad involved, BUT would you really believe you would have the stones to stand up and say to a group of violently incensed racists who obviously have no respect for any individual what with their carry on.Would any of us really be able to do that on our own? I would love to think i could and i am an anti-racist/racism person but i really don't think i could stand up to them unless it was once of my friends that was being abused and i was involved emotionally.

I think that may be why the match/ground officials may have hesitated to intervene.

RealistSpy

Am really disappointed really. I move down to carlow like 8 years ago racism wasn't so bad then but now I don't know what going on. Immigrants don't feel safe now like its really unfair.

Although kids aren't born racist but racism is learned. Ah well what can we do racism will never stop its life right? we just have to get up and stay strong.

patrickc

Fans at U14 GAA match shouted ‘kill the n****r’
By: Brendan Lawrence

A GROUP of teenage girls shouted “kill the f***ing n****r” at an U14 GAA player in Carlow last week, and were encouraged to do so by adults, according to a disgusted parent.
The committee that runs underage GAA in the county is set to investigate the incident that saw teenager Teboga Sebala subjected to the vile abuse.

Adrian Tomlin, whose son for Teboga’s team, Éire Óg, was seated in the stand at Dr Cullen Park along with his wife for the match, a semi-final, on Monday night. He said a group of young girls, encouraged by a group of adults in close proximity, shouted obscene and racial abuse at Teboga throughout the game.

“There were obscene racial comments like ‘kill the f***ing n****r’ and the likes,” said Mr Tomlin. “I was absolutely shocked. My wife was in tears. She asked them to stop and they turned on her. I pulled her away because I feared she would be attacked. I am beside myself - I am thinking of pulling my son from the sport. It was ongoing throughout the match and Teboga was visibly upset.”

Even more shocking, according to Mr Tomlin, was the fact that there were adults in the immediate vicinity who were laughing and encouraging the girls.

Fr Brendan Howard, chairman of the Coiste na n"g board responsible for underage competitions, voiced his disgust upon hearing about the incident.

“That has never emerged before,” said Fr Howard. “And I’d be very disappointed if it did. There’s no place for that here. We have always tried to embrace other cultures and give them all a welcome, be they rich or poor or whatever. I wouldn’t tolerate that kind of behaviour, it’s totally unacceptable.”

Stevecw

This is terrible to see. Why is it only time we ever make front pages is when something is wrong. He plays with the same as did, Eire Og. Great player, our best at U-14 by a long way. There is himself & another Nigerian guy on our U-14 team.
I wasnt at the game on Monday as i work in Dublin, but my brother was & rang me that night to fill me in on the easy win & the comments he heard.
Thing is, as an Eire Og person we are so used to the abuse & rivalry with our "enemy" in the town O'Hanrahans. There is no love lost between both sides from U-10 up to senior. But this abuse is taking it to a whole new level.

I dunno how to put this without sounding bad, but there is an O'Hanrahans element who will just cause trouble & abuse Eire Og at any chance. Some of these would be from the estates around the town that are best avoided to be honest, as im sure most carlow posters here would know.
Ok the club has some great members and families like the Carpenters, English's etc involved, but sadly also attracts a lot of the scum element of Carlow town.
Im sure these girls & those who encouraged them, belong to this element. For years at games ranging from u-10s up to senior there has been abuse & comments shouted about various players etc. But now that we have 2 Nigerians starring for us, that is obviously an easy target with their kinda mindset.
I dunno what can be done, im sure there wasnt many at an U-14 semi on a Monday night...so culprits should be easily identified.
Ban them from Dr Cullen Park & thats about it im sure. Cant really fine or ban a club because of a few teenage girls. There's no easy solution i can think of.
Its just terrible to see our brightest young talent in the club being dragged through all this.
And worst of all Carlow gaa finally making headlines, but for all the wrong reasons sadly

stick-dan

Stevecw wrote: »

This is terrible to see. Why is it only time we ever make front pages is when something is wrong. He plays with the same as did, Eire Og. Great player, our best at U-14 by a long way. There is himself & another Nigerian guy on our U-14 team.
I wasnt at the game on Monday as i work in Dublin, but my brother was & rang me that night to fill me in on the easy win & the comments he heard.
Thing is, as an Eire Og person we are so used to the abuse & rivalry with our "enemy" in the town O'Hanrahans. There is no love lost between both sides from U-10 up to senior. But this abuse is taking it to a whole new level.

I dunno how to put this without sounding bad, but there is an O'Hanrahans element who will just cause trouble & abuse Eire Og at any chance. Some of these would be from the estates around the town that are best avoided to be honest, as im sure most carlow posters here would know.
Ok the club has some great members and families like the Carpenters, English's etc involved, but sadly also attracts a lot of the scum element of Carlow town.
Im sure these girls & those who encouraged them, belong to this element. For years at games ranging from u-10s up to senior there has been abuse & comments shouted about various players etc. But now that we have 2 Nigerians starring for us, that is obviously an easy target with their kinda mindset.
I dunno what can be done, im sure there wasnt many at an U-14 semi on a Monday night...so culprits should be easily identified.
Ban them from Dr Cullen Park & thats about it im sure. Cant really fine or ban a club because of a few teenage girls. There's no easy solution i can think of.
Its just terrible to see our brightest young talent in the club being dragged through all this.
And worst of all Carlow gaa finally making headlines, but for all the wrong reasons sadly

Well said there are certain factions in the town that do tend to cause all these problems. It is a sad sad case as you said that anytime we do make a national paper it is because of such senseless actions.

A ban will most probably be enforced or well it should be. I think the organisation responsible for protecting the players should also aim to have these culprits names and shamed, but this seems very unlikely as the group who were largely responsible seem to be under the age of 18 so their names will not be made public. However the group of adults who encouraged these young girls on should definitely be named and shamed.

Only by doing this to culprits of racial attacks will we oust the racist factions of our society. There is no point letting it slip, or banning them from games.Because for every person you ban they have another friend who would go to the next game and seek reprecussion through throwing more comments of racism or hatred at innocent players.

Its a disgrace really.

Villain

You know its terrible I agree but its a bit of B00lix all the media coverage, I mean how many times at GAA matches do you hear people shouting abuse along the lines of hit the f**ker, kill the w*anker etc etc and its all ok until someone throws the word niger into the sentence? Seriously like?

Oh an what is he really?

stick-dan

What is he really? care to enlighten more on that question? i'm confused.

Villain

I'm just asking what age is he really?

Stevecw

^ He is 13 Villian. Just finished primary school. Heading to Knockbeg in Sept.
He's still eligable for U-14 next year too. So should lead Eire Og to defend the title they won last night v Tinryland with Teboga scoring one of the 5 goals.

Villain

Thats what his South African Birthcert and Passport say anyway..

SO many storys going around that would make this story appear not to be what it is been protrayed as in the media, some I know to be true others probably just speculation but I'm not going to post them here anyway. Just ask local's about the story......

stick-dan

Villain wrote: »

Thats what his South African Birthcert and Passport say anyway..

SO many storys going around that would make this story appear not to be what it is been protrayed as in the media, some I know to be true others probably just speculation but I'm not going to post them here anyway. Just ask local's about the story......

But sure whatever the stories are they hardly warrant the abuse that the poor chap got now in fairness.

MsFifers

Thats what his South African Birthcert and Passport say anyway..

SO many storys going around that would make this story appear not to be what it is been protrayed as in the media, some I know to be true others probably just speculation but I'm not going to post them here anyway. Just ask local's about the story......

I've heard that line a few times in response to this story - its such a load of __. So, if as is alleged, he is older than it says on his passport, then it is somehow justified to call him the n-word???!

Such a ridiculous, not to mention ignorant, mentality. :mad:

Villain

Who said that??

My main point was at almost every GAA match especially between local rivals abuse is thrown and no-one reports on it or jumps up and down and screams about it, but as soon as the word Niger is used its a national scandal, its a joke and most people complaining about it have no idea what happens at games or know anything about the person concerned.

MsFifers

God, do you really need this explained Villain?

The difference between that particular term of abuse and all the other more generalised ones (which actually shouldn't be part of sports either, but I suppose thats never going to happen) is that it is only used to demean black people and is aimed to seperate and segregate them from the rest of the community. It reveals that the person who hurls the term thinks that they are inherently superior just because they are racially different.

It is a loaded term and when it is used it brings with it the whole history racist treatment of black people from slavery, to apartheid, to being denied the right to vote etc, etc.

Yes, all abuse is designed to undermine, but certain terms are just taboo because of what they imply.

You could call a player any name under the sun but you cross a line when you start throwing racial slurs because you aren't just insulting them, you are insulting every member of their race, and setting communities against each other. And we know where that leads.

If you really want to go down that path, great, but try and educate yourself a bit first about the consequences.

Villain

MsFifers wrote: »

God, do you really need this explained Villain?

The difference between that particular term of abuse and all the other more generalised ones (which actually shouldn't be part of sports either, but I suppose thats never going to happen) is that it is only used to demean black people and is aimed to seperate and segregate them from the rest of the community. It reveals that the person who hurls the term thinks that they are inherently superior just because they are racially different.

It is a loaded term and when it is used it brings with it the whole history racist treatment of black people from slavery, to apartheid, to being denied the right to vote etc, etc.

Yes, all abuse is designed to undermine, but certain terms are just taboo because of what they imply.

You could call a player any name under the sun but you cross a line when you start throwing racial slurs because you aren't just insulting them, you are insulting every member of their race, and setting communities against each other. And we know where that leads.

If you really want to go down that path, great, but try and educate yourself a bit first about the consequences.

LOL

Ok so calling some an Eire Og w*nker and telling someone to break his legs is not as bad as calling someone a Black w*nker and telling somone to break the niger's legs becuase instead of insulting the Eire Og Player your insulting the whole Black race?

Seriously like? Can I ask how often you attend sporting events around the country?

I think its bad form that he was verbally abused, but I don't think its any worse than any other time young players are abused, the fact he is black is a side issue not the main issue and this type of things happens every week around the country but some media decided to run with this and protray carlow as worse than other places.

You might want to come down off your moral high ground to reality before you start telling people to educate themselves.

MsFifers

LOL

?? Glad you're amused and all, but its only your own County being demonised and made to look like a backwoods in national media.

Ok so calling some an Eire Og w*nker and telling someone to break his legs is not as bad as calling someone a Black w*nker and telling somone to break the niger's legs becuase instead of insulting the Eire Og Player your insulting the whole Black race?

Yeah, that's kind of the gist of it alright.

Seriously like? Can I ask how often you attend sporting events around the country?

Not quite sure what that has to do with anything. But, in answer to your question I go to about 2 or 3 matches a year. So?

You might want to come down off your moral high ground to reality before you start telling people to educate themselves.

If you consider "coming down off my moral high ground" to include agreeing with you that its ok to call someone a ******, then I think I'll stay here thanks.

I don't intend to say any more to you about this. You've made your thinking clear, and its clear no intention of seeing the other side of the story.

Villain

Please show me where I said it was ok to call someone a ******?

Or are you just not going to reply because you don't like hearing reality?

MsFifers

OK - just can't let that one go:

Villain wrote: »

I don't think its any worse than any other time young players are abused

And - yes you are right - I don't like your version of "reality" if it involves letting abuse - any kind of abuse and espcially discriminatory abuse (and subsequent defence of it) go without being challenged.


I disagree with you. It doesn't mean I'm on a different planet. Its the same one unfortunately.

Villain

I wasn't saying this case of abuse is alright I was just saying its as bad as other abuse which is widespread and not confined to Carlow, I don't like it but sadly it seems to be comming more the norm.

stick-dan

oh come on now, let's not resort to bickering, attack the post not the poster remember. Everyone has their own opinion and it is not the job of anyone here to dictate whose opinion is correct. Let's cool it down a bit lads.

Personally looking back at the last few comments exchanged between villian & MsFifers i would tend to agree with the latter. It is just my opinion. Villan however does raise a valid point that all abuse through is equally bad. A member of my family was physically abused in a match and as such has had surgery to rectify damage done to his arm. And that was no racist attack and it was much worst than name calling. However MsFifers raises the point that racial abuse is fueled by under-lying hatred and resentment towards other races and is such fueled with extreme venom behind each comment. I think it is fair to say that you both raised valid points.

Let's keep the peace lads.

ShayK1

you're so not getting modship dan so stop tryin!!!

messin' btw

Villain

shay you ****

ShayK1

Villain wrote: »

shay you ****

what'd I do?

Villain

Just felt like it, you playing ball this year?

MsFifers

Off topic - I'm reporting!!!

I can't stop thinking about this debate all day! I'm just really concerned that people can't see how dangerous it is to start letting those kind of terms slip into normal discourse, like football matches, and no one challenging them.

Villain - I accept you don't think that word was acceptable - thanks for clarifying that. Where I disagree with you and with stick-dan is where you guys say that racist abuse is equally bad as other types of abuse, cause I think its worse.

For eg. if you were to call me a fat cow or stuck-up b**** - I would think that ok you are abusing me but least you see me as an individual or an equal in some way - and I could respond to that and give as good as I get back. When you use a racist term - you aren't even giving the person the respect of seeing them as an equal human being - they are "just a n****** like the rest of them" etc. They are just up against a brick wall.

I'm involved in community work and I have seen how a small but significant proportion of people here in Carlow want absolutely nothing to do with people with dark skin. Even when they just want to volunteer on something or help out fundraising or something like that. I find it really disgusting - and I'm not saying that anyone here shares their views, but if you allow racist abuse to go unchecked you are letting that sector of the Carlow population think that their outlook is shared.

"Its when the good people do nothing that evil will flourish..."

Villain

The whole problem is though its not just Carlow, this thing happens all around the country but the media have jumped in on one innocent and protrayed the county in a bad light.

It was 4 or 5 young thugs shouting the abuse not the whole of Carlow, the abuse was wrong but it was wrong before they used the N word its just people seem to accept that now.

MsFifers

It was 4 or 5 thugs and everyone standing around them laughing at them, saying nothing. And what I was trying to say above is that it is a bigger problem in Carlow than you may realise or like to admit.

And I'm wondering why you brought up all the stuff about what age he is, and what his passport says and how the locals have some angle on the story that is not in the media?

The best way for the whole of Carlow to show that that type of abuse is not accepted here or typical here to just denounce it straight out - its wrong, end of story.

Instead, I keep hearing things like - "ah, you don't know the full story" and "there is more to that now, than is in the papers" and other similar comments (this is people I've been talking to) - like there might be some kind of justification for it.

Anyway - I've been going off GAA for a while now because of all the thuggery at matches - both on & off the field! I used to find it funny!

stick-dan

shay, i want it...

nah kiddin well sorta. I want a carlow moderator i made no secret of that.

but seriously i just wrote that reply cos i thought the lads were gonna start to virtual B1T(h slap each other

ShayK1

Villain wrote: »

Just felt like it, you playing ball this year?

Yeah, training tonight. Can't wait!! Ya coming?

Villain

Nah Reitred hung up the boots

patrickc

can we keep the off topic talk to the random waffle thread, makes it more enjoyable to read threads when there related to the topic..

ShayK1

Villain wrote: »

Nah Reitred hung up the boots

at your age? What? why? Cop the F**K on !!!

Villain

ShayK1 wrote: »

at your age? What? why? Cop the F**K on !!!

Ah building a GAF, too busy

Jees patrickc chillax

MsFifers

They lost the argument, so they changed the subject.....

stick-dan

patrickc wrote: »

can we keep the off topic talk to the random waffle thread, makes it more enjoyable to read threads when there related to the topic..

+1

:D

Whoever thought of the random waffle thread must be dead proud

They didn't lose the arguement to be fair it was very promising and enlightening to some of the insights of people in carlow.

SV

I would feel sorry for the chap but he's an absolute little s**t.
Nothing but trouble.

RealistSpy

I honeslty can believe this you people are just pissing me off wait till I get one of the lads. Keep making things worse. The kid won't do anything but you people just keep building his hatred up ok.

Villain

say what now?

stick-dan

RealistSpy wrote: »

I honeslty can believe this you people are just pissing me off wait till I get one of the lads. Keep making things worse. The kid won't do anything but you people just keep building his hatred up ok.

what?

Stevecw

ClioV6 wrote: »

I would feel sorry for the chap but he's an absolute little s**t.
Nothing but trouble.

What the hell is that all about?
What trouble has he caused? The guy is a nice kid, trying his best to integrate by playin with Eire Og. He happens to be really good at it too.
And hopefully in a few years we'll see him in a Carlow jersey representing us all. Bet you'd hate that wouldn't you!?

Villain

Stevecw wrote: »

What trouble has he caused? The guy is a nice kid,

Emm I think you need to do a little more research.

PS. I am not saying the racist comments were right in anyway.

ShayK1

RealistSpy wrote: »

wait till I get one of the lads

eh? What the hell does that mean? Are you making threats?

stick-dan

This thread looks awfully like a thread that could be heading towards defamation of someones character.. We all wanna just let this go? It can only get heated.