IRA/UVF killings

ilkhanid

Ah...the proverbial 800 years! And to think only Ireland stood between Perfidious Albion and world domination. :rolleyes:
Some things are crazy about this 800 years stuff. Was there no oppression in Ireland before the English (not even English at all, still Normans) came? Were no Irish killing and oppressing each other? Were the Vikings just messing about? Sure the English/Normans hardly impacted on large areas of Ireland for hundreds of years.There was'nt 800 years of oppression in Sligo, Derry and Donegal to name just three counties. If Nationalists referred to the 400 years (from the battle of Kinsale) or the 500 years (from the reformation,Henry the Eighth and the end of the Kildare Earldom) of oppresion it would make more sense..but no, they have to over-egg the pudding of misery.

getz

Denerick wrote: »

Why is it that extremists and dreamers are always so bloody inarticulate?

the sad thing is that most of the extremist boardies do not realise that if the IRA hadent a british enemy to go at they would have been still be bringing civil war against the republic -since the peace the money that both extremists have ,has been put into bogus property companys 15 months ago i was selling a house in burnley ,i had phone calls from two different northern irish companys wanting to buy my property for cash-last year in manchester the police arrested a estate agent who had acquired six houses for a leading IRA man-all this is illegal money-taken from republican and royalist mugs -for the cause/what cause

Dub973

I completely understand the ira killings. After the good Friday agreement-northern Ireland should have been completely demilitarized

Fratton Fred

IrishToffees wrote: »

The dog in the street knows after 800 years of suffering and been treated as 2nd class citizens was inevitably going to lead to an uprising and most definitely the reunification of our Island! We took the almighty British empire on, and brought her to her knees!. When she had plans of world domination we stood up to the fight. Role on our (IRISH) Islands reunification!

IrishToffees wrote: »

ye boys thought ye could take over the world and your next door neighbours bet ye with stick and stones! Creditability.....Blair been led around by Bush on a lead. JOKE! Joke Nation..we have figured ye out a long long time ago!

aaahh, this is so cute.

McArmalite must be so proud that his little brother can now use a computer.:D

Judgement Day

What about the 943 years of Norman oppression in Britain? Not to mention what the Romans did to us. :rolleyes:

Denerick

What people seem to forget about is what about the countless years the Celts kept us in bondage? What of our pre-historic roots? What happened those poor bastards?

DublinDes

Judgement Day wrote: »

Dream on if you think there's going to be a united Ireland. Incidentally, the only time that the island of Ireland has ever been a united entity was under British rule.

Yes and the Berlin Wall will not fall, apartheid will last forever in South Africa and a black man will never become the president of America........What are you going to do with the growing nationalist population ??
(And considering yesterday's events with Polish supporters been attacked by orange men because the Poles had an Irish flag with them, looks like we can count on them and othe rpeople from eastern Europe in an election . Still the Poles gave some of your crowd a good kicking )

Red Sleeping Beauty

Judgement Day wrote: »

Dream on if you think there's going to be a united Ireland. Incidentally, the only time that the island of Ireland has ever been a united entity was under British rule.

There was a united Ireland in the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff there last week.

Oh and, was it 800 years or 900 years ? Can anyone remember ?

ilkhanid

"Yes and the Berlin Wall will not fall, apartheid will last forever in South Africa and a black man will never become the president of America........"

Yes, and those changes were based on the end of a denial of democracy. We have plenty of democracy in Ireland and we know how people in NI vote and its not going to change in a decade or two.

"Pity some people were not standing with Gordon and the rest of the cenotaph huggers in Enniskillen."
Vile and disgraceful. Lets have a joke about the Dublin and Monaghan bombings..see you laughing then, shall we?

Denerick

ilkhanid wrote: »

"Yes and the Berlin Wall will not fall, apartheid will last forever in South Africa and a black man will never become the president of America........"

Yes, and those changes were based on the end of a denial of democracy. We have plenty of democracy in Ireland and we know how people in NI vote and its not going to change in a decade or two.

"Pity some people were not standing with Gordon and the rest of the cenotaph huggers in Enniskillen."
Vile and disgraceful. Lets have a joke about the Dublin and Monaghan bombings..see you laughing then, shall we?

Don't get so worked by him. He's only playing at being an extremist anyway.

BossArky

FYI all - a number of recent posts have been deleted.

Davey2

I think that it is impossible to condone the actions at Kingsmill, its was blatant Brutal sectarianism, and as an ardent Republican myself I don't think any Republican can approve of it.
I don't believe McArmalite was trying to make excuses about what happened, rather was just explaining what the circumstances were like at the time.

Davey2

ilkhanid wrote: »

"Yes and the Berlin Wall will not fall, apartheid will last forever in South Africa and a black man will never become the president of America........"

Yes, and those changes were based on the end of a denial of democracy. We have plenty of democracy in Ireland and we know how people in NI vote and its not going to change in a decade or two.

What about the democracy of the Irish Election before the War for Independence when the Irish nation voted in a landslide for Republicans and the end of the British occupation?

What about the fact that if there was a vote tomorrow on the uniting of Ireland, it against would be passed.

Davey2

ilkhanid wrote: »

Ah...the proverbial 800 years! And to think only Ireland stood between Perfidious Albion and world domination. :rolleyes:
Some things are crazy about this 800 years stuff. Was there no oppression in Ireland before the English (not even English at all, still Normans) came? Were no Irish killing and oppressing each other? Were the Vikings just messing about? Sure the English/Normans hardly impacted on large areas of Ireland for hundreds of years.There was'nt 800 years of oppression in Sligo, Derry and Donegal to name just three counties. If Nationalists referred to the 400 years (from the battle of Kinsale) or the 500 years (from the reformation,Henry the Eighth and the end of the Kildare Earldom) of oppresion it would make more sense..but no, they have to over-egg the pudding of misery.

So by your logic, if you are getting oppressed by your own Irish people you'll be no worse of being oppressed by British people or as you rightfully say Normans?

Davey2

Judgement Day wrote: »

Dream on if you think there's going to be a united Ireland. Incidentally, the only time that the island of Ireland has ever been a united entity was under British rule.

Italy was only a united sovereign country since around 1870, does that make Italy any less legitimate.

MissesMe

I remember a story similar to the one you talk about, think it was some band crossing the border after a gig or something?? don't know any other details though

getz

Davey2 wrote: »

What about the democracy of the Irish Election before the War for Independence when the Irish nation voted in a landslide for Republicans and the end of the British occupation?

What about the fact that if there was a vote tomorrow on the uniting of Ireland, it against would be passed.

do anyone of you believe that the catholics in northern ireland would vote to join the irish republic? i dont ,it would mean giving up to much like the NHS ect-they would also be looked upon as a second class persons in the republic, and what about the protestants ?would they like to be under control of a catholic controled goverment?-my old shop steward[he was irish] used to say they are living in cloud cuckoo land.forget lads there has to be a meeting of minds and big changes in the republic before that can happen

Fratton Fred

MissesMe wrote: »

I remember a story similar to the one you talk about, think it was some band crossing the border after a gig or something?? don't know any other details though

The Miami show Band

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Showband_killings

Davey2

getz wrote: »

do anyone of you believe that the catholics in northern ireland would vote to join the irish republic? i dont ,it would mean giving up to much like the NHS ect-they would also be looked upon as a second class persons in the republic, and what about the protestants ?would they like to be under control of a catholic controled goverment?-my old shop steward[he was irish] used to say they are living in cloud cuckoo land.forget lads there has to be a meeting of minds and big changes in the republic before that can happen

Don't think for a second I want to live in some state ruled by the Catholic church, I would be as opposed to that as I am to occupation by Britain.

Also I know of no Republican that wants to merely extend the current set-up of the Free State Government, a full shake up of the system is required and the current list of priorities should be changed, to a set-up with the peoples interests at heart and not the interests of only the Wealthy. And the some of the things that would top my list are Health Care, Education and affordable housing. BTW I agree the NHS is a great service and is probably the best thing the Brit have given us, but I see no reason why a United Ireland shouldn't have a set-up like it.

getz

Davey2 wrote: »

Don't think for a second I want to live in some state ruled by the Catholic church, I would be as opposed to that as I am to occupation by Britain.

Also I know of no Republican that wants to merely extend the current set-up of the Free State Government, a full shake up of the system is required and the current list of priorities should be changed, to a set-up with the peoples interests at heart and not the interests of only the Wealthy. And the some of the things that would top my list are Health Care, Education and affordable housing. BTW I agree the NHS is a great service and is probably the best thing the Brit have given us, but I see no reason why a United Ireland shouldn't have a set-up like it.

the republic even with northern ireland in it hasent the population paying NHS/insurance to be able to afford a nhs only those in the north who have paid it to the british goverment over the years would have access to it -it would mean that only the adults in the family who have paid would get treatment the children not -and i could not see the british tax payer happy to pay for a health service to a foreign goverment

Davey2

getz wrote: »

the republic even with northern ireland in it hasent the population paying NHS/insurance to be able to afford a nhs only those in the north who have paid it to the british goverment over the years would have access to it -it would mean that only the adults in the family who have paid would get treatment the children not -and i could not see the british tax payer happy to pay for a health service to a foreign goverment

Valid points and I didn't mean I envisage the NHS remaining, I meant a set-up or system like it, for a start in order to fund it members of the Dail's wages should be greatly reduced, they should be paid the average workers wage, instead of the astronomical ones they currently receive, Take greater control of our natural resources and use them as bartering chips to get the Irish Nation the best possible deal, not like as we seen in the recent Shell. These are just some small things that can be done and in my opinion should be done.
.

getz

Davey2 wrote: »

Valid points and I didn't mean I envisage the NHS remaining, I meant a set-up or system like it, for a start in order to fund it members of the Dail's wages should be greatly reduced, they should be paid the average workers wage, instead of the astronomical ones they currently receive, Take greater control of our natural resources and use them as bartering chips to get the Irish Nation the best possible deal, not like as we seen in the recent Shell. These are just some small things that can be done and in my opinion should be done.
.

very good thread its nice to see that we have boardies on board who think positively, its refreshing to find other people out there who can think to the future not live in the passed

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

aaahh, this is so cute.

McArmalite must be so proud that his little brother can now use a computer.:D

Oh God, Ulster’s finest is back, you were very noticeable by your absence, I was beginning to smaell a rat :) Now let me guess, he - and his friends - are going to venhemetally denying their back to their old tatics of insulting nationalists and dragging down the forum. But then, they 'll have wouldn't they

Funny how several other unionists were on using your old tatic of derailing a thread by throwing in the IRA did this, the IRA did that, the IRA did the other Just like in the Holocaust thread, where the IRA was dragged into it as if they had been the concentration camp guards or something by fellow unionists like Cherrypicker claiming “Frank Ryan worked for a nazi dept,whos leader was later hanged for exterminating serbs. Operation kathleen was the Nazi plan to invade Ireland and use the IRA as quslings ", MrTaylor1981 and ilkhanid http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055482662

Even on the Civil War thread, Judgement Day brings in teh recent shootings " Just been reviewing your recent postings and I am intrigued that you have had nothing to say about the recent activities of the Continuity/Real IRA? " :rolleyes:

Oh Fred, I know you and your unionist friends conniving too well :)

Even this thread, which anyone can see by the OP is a lets slag the IRA and nationalism thread. A thread that was dead for months but revived as the attempt to hijack the Holocaust thread did not work. I know your tatics too well by now lads

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

Oh God, Ulster’s finest is back, you were very noticeable by your absence, I was beginning to smaell a rat :) Now let me guess, he - and his friends - are going to venhemetally denying their back to their old tatics of insulting nationalists and dragging down the forum. But then, they 'll have wouldn't they

Funny how several other unionists were on using your old tatic of derailing a thread by throwing in the IRA did this, the IRA did that, the IRA did the other Just like in the Holocaust thread, where the IRA was dragged into it as if they had been the concentration camp guards or something by fellow unionists like Cherrypicker claiming “Frank Ryan worked for a nazi dept,whos leader was later hanged for exterminating serbs. Operation kathleen was the Nazi plan to invade Ireland and use the IRA as quslings ", MrTaylor1981 and ilkhanid http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055482662

Even on the Civil War thread, Judgement Day brings in teh recent shootings " Just been reviewing your recent postings and I am intrigued that you have had nothing to say about the recent activities of the Continuity/Real IRA? " :rolleyes:

Oh Fred, I know you and your unionist friends conniving too well :)

Even this thread, which anyone can see by the OP is a lets slag the IRA and nationalism thread. A thread that was dead for months but revived as the attempt to hijack the Holocaust thread did not work. I know your tatics too well by now lads

TWAT.

McArmalite

ilkhanid wrote: »

Ah...the proverbial 800 years! And to think only Ireland stood between Perfidious Albion and world domination. :rolleyes:
Some things are crazy about this 800 years stuff. Was there no oppression in Ireland before the English (not even English at all, still Normans) came? Were no Irish killing and oppressing each other? Were the Vikings just messing about? Sure the English/Normans hardly impacted on large areas of Ireland for hundreds of years.There was'nt 800 years of oppression in Sligo, Derry and Donegal to name just three counties. If Nationalists referred to the 400 years (from the battle of Kinsale) or the 500 years (from the reformation,Henry the Eighth and the end of the Kildare Earldom) of oppresion it would make more sense..but no, they have to over-egg the pudding of misery.

Judgement Day wrote: »

What about the 943 years of Norman oppression in Britain? Not to mention what the Romans did to us. :rolleyes:

And this from a people who have 2,000 marches April to August to ' celebrate ' the 12th of July back in 1690, 2,000 :eek:. The people who dress up in bowler hats, wear white gloves and carry umbrellas on the hottest day of the year !!!! All to ' celebrate' the victory of a gay Dutch King supported by the Pope and whose army contained Catholics over an English king !!!!

The same people who regard singing a hymn to an hereditary monarch and self styled defender of the faith asking a supernatural being to protect her so she can reign over her subjjects !!!!

ilkhanid

"Italy was only a united sovereign country since around 1870, does that make Italy any less legitimate."

No, but if Italy-or India or anywhere else-was'nt united it wouldn't make that state of affairs any less legitimate either. History brought Italy together and history might tear it apart some day too.There is no ineluctable fate that says that any geographical entity should be either united into one unitary state or not. Some territories that were composed of lands that seemed to have little in common (Yugoslavia,India,Indonesia, Nigeria) ended up as one country, and in Yugoslavia's case ended up apart again. Some terrorities (South America,The Maghreb) composed of lands that seemed to have a lot in common ended up as different states. The Goddess of history does'nt have a view on it one way or the other.

"So by your logic, if you are getting oppressed by your own Irish people you'll be no worse of being oppressed by British people or as you rightfully say Normans?"

You'll be no better off, but no worse off either. The "English" did'nt bring some special extra-strength quality of oppression that had'nt been seen before. I doubt peasants in their villages or monks in their monasteries cared much whether their houses were being burned down, their womenfolk molested and their goods pillaged by Irish,Normans, Vikings or English.

"The same people who regard singing a hymn to an hereditary monarch and self styled defender of the faith asking a supernatural being to protect her so she can reign over her subjjects !!!!"

So? One lot of extremists is as obsessed with history as the other. No big deal. The fact that the Orange Order is daft does'nt make whinging about the 800 years any less daft.

Davey2

ilkhanid wrote: »

"Italy was only a united sovereign country since around 1870, does that make Italy any less legitimate."
No, but if Italy-or India or anywhere else-was'nt united it wouldn't make that state of affairs any less legitimate either. There is no ineluctable fate that says that any geographical entity should be either united into one unitary state or not. Some territories that were composed of lands that seemed to have little in common (Yugoslavia,India,Indonesia, Nigeria) ended up as one country. Some terrorities (South America,The Maghreb) composed of lands that seemed to have a lot in common ended up as different states. The Goddess of history does'nt have a view on it one way or the other.

Ok fair enough, but what I was getting at is that the fact a country hadn't been united doesn't mean it shouldn't be.

BossArky

Fratton Fred wrote: »

TWAT.

7 day ban.

BossArky

Locking this for the moment until I read through the detail.

McConnon

McArmalite wrote: »

"It just goes on and on.." It goes on because Britian partitioned the country in order to sustain a secterian society in the northeast of the country, not end it. The conditions of repression from 1922 to 1969 ensured that violence would some day erupt. When people tried to peacefully bring about reasonable change, the backlash of the british state forces of the RUC, B Specials and unionist mobs was to try and violently repress it, hence the troubles.

Never a truer word spoken McArmalite. Fair play to ya!