All aboard the atheist bus

PDN

robindch wrote: »

And tax-free too? Hmm..., not a bad business to be in

Yes, if you're spending the money on getting your message out then that should keep it under the heading of non-profit and so no tax involved. For example, the Humanist Association of Ireland has charitable status with the Revenue Commissioners.

pH

robindch wrote: »

And tax-free too? Hmm..., not a bad business to be in

Not bad indeed. PDN posts here in A&A, essentially boasting about how easy he finds it to take 10% of his congregation's income and he gets thanked! Am I missing something?

robindch

PDN wrote: »

if you're spending the money on getting your message out then that should keep it under the heading of non-profit and so no tax involved.

The assumption being, of course, that there's some benefit which accrues to the public from "getting the message out there". A point which is arguable, to say the very least.

PDN wrote: »

For example, the Humanist Association of Ireland has charitable status with the Revenue Commissioners.

I can't imagine anybody handing over 10% of their earnings (wow!) to the humanists. And it's debatable that if religion didn't have charitable status and the financial clout which that permits, then there'd be no need to have the humanists getting their own message out there either.

Perhaps it's time to revoke charitable status from both? I'd certainly be in favour of that.

PDN

pH wrote: »

Not bad indeed. PDN posts here in A&A, essentially boasting about how easy he finds it to take 10% of his congregation's income and he gets thanked! Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing the point that I boasted about nothing, and you're missing the fact that I don't take any portion of my congregation's income.

I pointed out that those who are committed to a cause will stump up the funds to get their message out - so the cost of advertising on a bus is hardly prohibitive.

My congregation, or at least some of them, put 10% of their income into a registered charity that then applies that finance to its stated charitable aims.

PDN

robindch wrote: »

And it's debatable that if religion didn't have charitable status and the financial clout which that permits, then there'd be no need to have the humanists getting their own message out there either.

Debatable indeed. In societies where religion receives no charitable status or financial clout it seems to thrive very well indeed - so presumably the humanists would still feel the need to get their message out.

robindch

PDN wrote: »

In societies where religion receives no charitable status or financial clout it seems to thrive very well indeed

Out of interest, in what countries/societies does religion receive no tax breaks? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm sure there must be a few.

PDN

robindch wrote: »

Out of interest, in what countries/societies does religion receive no tax breaks? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm sure there must be a few.

Currently, China, Cuba, & Vietnam spring to mind.

Historically, in the former Soviet Union and its various satellites in Eastern Europe.

pH

PDN wrote: »

Yes, you're missing the point that I boasted about nothing, and you're missing the fact that I don't take any portion of my congregation's income.

Thanks for clearing that up. So you are saying that you have a source of income for you and your family entirely separate from monies extracted from your congregation? Also you pay for your "Air-miles lifestyle" you previously boasted about from your own pocket (and not from these donations)?

Also how would you classify these donors from and economic and educational perspective? Are they primarily wealthy people or are they primarily less well off, poorly educated migrant peoples who could be doing something far more beneficial with 10% of their income than giving it to you?

Zombrex

The Humanists could start by getting a better website .. what is this, 1993?

robindch

PDN wrote: »

Currently, China, Cuba, & Vietnam spring to mind

Each one with relatively high levels of atheism.

Point made.

Dades

PDN wrote: »

My congregation, or at least some of them, put 10% of their income into a registered charity that then applies that finance to its stated charitable aims.

And of course they can claim a tax deduction on that donation, making the net cost to them closer to 5%.
Everyone's a winner! Kinda.

PDN

pH wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up. So you are saying that you have a source of income for you and your family entirely separate from monies extracted from your congregation? Also you pay for your "Air-miles lifestyle" you previously boasted about from your own pocket (and not from these donations)?

I had thought the subject under discussion was getting the message out and how committed we are to that. Also, I am unaware of having 'boasted' about anything - but I guess things appear different to those who are mean-minded or prone to jealousy. However, I am happy to answer questions.

Our legal advice is that it is against the Revenue Commissioners' rules for a trustee or officer of a charity to receive an income from that charity. Therefore I receive no income or remuneration from the 10% of income which many of the members of our congregation choose to give.

My salary, which is none of your business, comes from an entirely different source altogether.

As for my air travel, hotels etc. Often a conference or institution that engage me as a speaker will cover my travel and accommodation. If I travel on a missions trip then I cover all my expenses from my own funds. My wife and I have always operated on the principle that as well as giving 10% of our income to our local church that we set aside a further 10% to cover missions activities or to donate to missionary organisations. So, none of my travel is paid for from people's tithes (the 10%).

Also how would you classify these donors from and economic and educational perspective? Are they primarily wealthy people or are they primarily less well off, poorly educated migrant peoples who could be doing something far more beneficial with 10% of their income than giving it to you?

Our congregation has a mix of different nationalities and social groups. I would say, based on the number of doctors and college lecturers, that on average we have a higher level of educational achievement than the general population. A considerable number of our congregation also own their own businesses. We also do have some less well off and poorly educated people - although these tend more to be Irish than to be migrants.

I don't think any of these people, myself included, could find anything better to do with the 10% of our income that we choose to give to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And, once again, they don't give it to me.

PDN

Dades wrote: »

And of course they can claim a tax deduction on that donation, making the net cost to them closer to 5%.
Everyone's a winner! Kinda.

If they are self employed then donors to a charity can indeed claim a tax deduction. With PAYE workers the charity itself can claim the tax relief direct from the Revenue Commissioners.

Dave!

Just got this email

Thank you for supporting the original Atheist Bus Campaign back
in the
summer, and being one of the 877 people who pledged £5. Even
though we
didn't meet the target, you gave us the encouragement to carry
on with the
idea, and we're very pleased to let you know that the campaign
is
relaunching today with the support of Professor Richard Dawkins
and the
British Humanist Association.

Professor Dawkins has generously offered to match all donations
to the
Atheist Bus Campaign up to a maximum of £5,500, giving us a
total of £11,000
if we raise the full amount – which we now know is enough for
30 buses to
carry the slogan “There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying
and enjoy your
life” across London for eight weeks!

The British Humanist Association will administer all donations.
The campaign
website is at http://www.atheistcampaign.org Please visit the
link below to
donate:

http://www.justgiving.com/atheistbus

With your help, we can counter the religious ads currently
running on London
buses, make people feel a bit brighter on the way to work,
raise the profile
of atheism in the UK, and hopefully encourage more people to
come out as
atheists.

Richard Dawkins says: "This campaign to put alternative slogans
on London
buses will make people think - and thinking is anathema to
religion."

Many thanks for your support!

Zillah

That's awesome. Nice of Dawkins to do that too. Really hope this gets done.

Dave!

Yah it would be sweet! I shall make my donation in the morrow :cool:

studiorat

Should there be billboard advertising for Religion or Humansism at all?

What's the advertising standards crowd have to say about claims that are made?

nozzferrahhtoo

Wohoo thanks for reanimating my thread. I just came on to do it and you beat me to it

My donation is made.

nozzferrahhtoo

Someone called TimS just threw in 500GBP. Wonder who he is.

Dades

What the heck, I'm in for a few quid! The idea just warms that cold, empty space where my soul should be.

studiorat wrote: »

Should there be billboard advertising for Religion or Humansism at all?

What's the advertising standards crowd have to say about claims that are made?

There's loads of posters about promoting 'Jesus as the path to salvation' or whatnot, and I suspect no independent group verified that claim.

nozzferrahhtoo

Target matched and at this time exceeded by 852,98 GBP. Well done all

Rev Hellfire

You have to ask, what's the point in wasting all this money?
Its not like it'll accomplish anything, personally I'd prefer to take my money and goto the pub.

Dades

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

You have to ask, what's the point in wasting all this money?

Are you not a tiny bit interested in the potential public reaction to such a promotion?

At the very least it should spark a bit of interesting debate. Worst case scenario, there'll be bombs placed on all the buses which will go off if the speed drops below 50mph.

nozzferrahhtoo

From the organisers:

** We reached the total at 10.06am - thank you so much to everyone who contributed! If you haven't donated yet and would like to then please do - we can then get adverts inside the same buses to strengthen the campaign's impact! **

Rev Hellfire

Dades wrote: »

Are you not a tiny bit interested in the potential public reaction to such a promotion?

The thing is I imagine there'll be as much interest in this as there is in any religious stuff put on the side of a bus, ie. None.

I mean if its all for a bit of a larf, I guess where's the harm. Still seems a waste though.

Dades

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

The thing is I imagine there'll be as much interest in this as there is in any religious stuff put on the side of a bus, ie. None.

The smartest reaction the various religious groups could give would be none.

I'm anticipating a bit more reaction, though.

Zombrex

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

The thing is I imagine there'll be as much interest in this as there is in any religious stuff put on the side of a bus, ie. None.

I imagine if there was no interest in religious posters on or in buses the various evangelical groups wouldn't spend the money on them.

back to the poster, I'm pleased they said "Probably ..." at the start, otherwise they would open themselves up to the common criticism from religious groups that atheism is as "fundamental" as they are.

I'm weighting for the "Jesus probably died for your sins.." poster :pac:

My original point still stands I think though. The idea that there is no God would probably cause a lot of people to start worrying. So I guess it depends on who the poster is targeted at.

nozzferrahhtoo

I see AC Grayling threw in 500GBP.

Dades

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I see AC Grayling threw in 500GBP.

Puts my 3.16 in the shade. :pac:

nozzferrahhtoo

Dades wrote: »

Puts my 3.16 in the shade. :pac:

Thor is not impressed with your pitiful offering