Kids walking on wall

seahorse

Bluetonic wrote: »

I just rang and they said there is no legal policy in the state on it.

Then ring your solicitor, because that's not what my neighbour was told - she was told by the guards to remove it as it was illegal to affix anything to your property that was designed to cause bodily harm.

I just dont get why people are so uptight on this issue. I'd hardly even call it an issue - did none of you walk on walls when you were kids???

There are far worse things kids could be doing, maybe some of you should head down to the kips of this city and take a look. After you've seen enough of that the sight of kids innocently walking along walls would cheer you up!

DublinDilbert

smccarrick wrote: »

Those handy guards will inform you that its entirely a civil matter.......

Exactly... from when i studied law in college I seem to remember if its deemed to be a "trap" its illegal...

A "trap" would be something that's not clear and obvious from the ground.... hence barbed wire would not be deemed as a "trap", but glass on top of a wall would be...

Jo King

Look at the case of McNamara v ESB [1975] 1 I.R.
If a kid falls off the wall the parents will sue the householder. If the householder has public liability insurance the house insurers will deal with the claim. Most likely some sort of offer will be made by the insurance company.

Bluetonic

seahorse wrote: »

Then ring your solicitor, because that's not what my neighbour was told - she was told by the guards to remove it as it was illegal to affix anything to your property that was designed to cause bodily harm.

I may have missed a few delete post but why would I want to ring my solicitor?

the_syco

Victor wrote: »

Make the top of the wall too narrow for them to walk on. Potentially, put some cement mortar on top such that each side slopes down 45 degrees.

Agreed. If the kids fall due to a dodgy brick, you're liable. If the kid can't walk over it, they usually won't try.

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

There's no court in the country that would hold the houseowner liable if a neighbour's kid fell off their wall. What's more, only a tiny number of parents would even consider litigation.

Actually, it's always been the case, since the 80's.

The glass on the wall: if the kid cuts his hand/head/etc on it, well, you put it there to maim, didn't you?

Wile E. Coyote

Those handy guards will inform you that its entirely a civil matter.......

I think you'll find that if thry're on your property those 'handy guards' will treat it as trespassing!

I just rang and they said there is no legal policy in the state on it.

Regardless of whether it's illeagal or not it's a stupid idea that could still land you with a claim.

They're kids. Ignore them and they'll soon find something better to do. As seahorse asked, did none of you ever walk on walls or get into mischief when you were young?

SimpleSam06

DarkJager wrote: »

Why not? Its his property and nobody (i.e people) should have any business going near the wall anyway, if they get injured its their own fault.

Is it his property though? A wall like that might be council property or owned by a management company if he's unfortunate enough to be living in such an estate. In which case kids falling off and injuring themselves would be able to hold the council liable.

I had a similar problem in the estate I live, kids from the areas out the back were using the garden wall as a shortcut to get onto the main road. The main issue I had with this was that they would occasionally stop to bean the back door with a couple of rocks while they were at it. I made representations to the council, and after a lot of arguing they agreed to affix a lovely ten foot high steel railing to the top of the wall. Combined with a few calls to the guards, the problem went away.

seahorse wrote: »

it was illegal to affix anything to your property that was designed to cause bodily harm.

Well that nips my molotov launcher in the bud.

Prenderb

Hmm. It's quite divided, isn't it? About 50% leave alone, 50% cause physical damage....

To those that can't understand why it's an issue....well, this wall overlooks peoples back garden, kitchen window and bedroom windows - that's primarily why it's an issue. But also, the fear of them falling into my garden with a broken ankle or something.

I've not gone down the road of immediately expecting these kids to jump into a garden and wreak havoc - I'm not prejudging them. I'm sure they're good kids, doing what kids do, but I don't want them bleeding on my back garden!

January

If they child falls into your garden and hurts themselves you can be damn sure they will be able to claim off your insurance policy or sue you because they fell while they were on your property.

astrofool

You could also counter sue them for trespassing.

Victor

seahorse wrote: »

I just dont get why people are so uptight on this issue. I'd hardly even call it an issue - did none of you walk on walls when you were kids???

Not in people's back gardens, no.

Anyway, I stuck to hedges.

The_Conductor

seahorse wrote: »

I just dont get why people are so uptight on this issue. I'd hardly even call it an issue - did none of you walk on walls when you were kids???

Broken collar bone from falling from a wall on Inis Mean. What I was trying to prove walking along the rickity stone wall is a bit beyond me......

Yes- most of us fell off walls, stood on rusty nails, got cut on glass, hit with blunt objects and lots more. Kids these days- and more to the point their parents, do not expect any of these things to happen- and if something does- automatically blame someone...... There is no such thing as an "accident" anymore.

This is why farmers don't want walkers across their land- because oddly enough a big field with a sign on the gate "Beware of Bull" does not stop people from hopping into the field- and leaving the gate open........

People have no responsibility for their own actions anymore- the American blame culture took root rather too well here........

seahorse

Well, we certainly have become a more litigious nation smccarrick, I'm not denying that, but I don’t think the vast majority of parents would consider trying to sue in that situation, and even if they did, who would they sue? It is a communal wall acting as a divider between thirty houses, so I can’t see the law coming down on the side of a child’s parents, should they have fallen off a wall into somebody's garden; I think it's more likely the homeowner would be able to claim compensation for any bedding plants that got flattened in the fall! - but I don’t know the legalities of this and I don’t pretend to; if the OP is really concerned about the possibility of being sued they can always check the legal implications out with their solicitor.

Also, you said that "parents do not expect any of these things to happen". Well, all I can say to that is any parent who expects to get their child to eighteen without a few trips to Temple Street is a fukin eejit who's clueless on the issue of childrearing and has a few shocks coming their way.

The_Conductor

seahorse wrote: »

Well, we certainly have become a more litigious nation smccarrick, I'm not denying that, but I don’t think the vast majority of parents would consider trying to sue in that situation

I really think you'd be very surprised. I've seen a case where a woman tried to climb over an 8 foot gate at 9AM on a Sunday morning to get into a Pick-Your-Own fruit farm, got caught ontop of the gate until the farm opened at 12 and sued. The insurance company settled instead of going to court, and jacked up the Fruit Farm's public liability premia. They promptly closed. People will sue at the drop of a hat.

seahorse wrote: »

and even if they did, who would they sue? It is a communal wall acting as a divider between thirty houses, so I can’t see the law coming down on the side of a child’s parents, should they have fallen off a wall into somebody's garden; I think it's more likely the homeowner would be able to claim compensation for any bedding plants that got flattened in the fall! - but I don’t know the legalities of this and I don’t pretend to; if the OP is really concerned about the possibility of being sued they can always check the legal implications out with their solicitor.

The Communal wall dividing 30 houses is still the property of the individual houseowners, and the duty of care is theirs under the law.

seahorse wrote: »

Also, you said that "parents do not expect any of these things to happen". Well, all I can say to that is any parent who expects to get their child to eighteen without a few trips to Temple Street is a fukin eejit who's clueless on the issue of childrearing and has a few shocks coming their way.

I agree with you. Kids will be kids. Unfortunately the proportion of fukin eejits bringing them up has increased exponentially lately........

seahorse

I posted a response to you yesterday smccarrick but I see it hasn’t been delivered; feckin computer must be actin up again. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree - all I can say is, if I saw a trail of kids walking along my wall, if I said anything at all I'd most likely stick my head out the window and shout 'bleedin mind yerselves, will ya'!

I just don’t get the mindset that thinks otherwise. It's probably because I'm a mother myself, and part of it also is probably because I'm from a background that's seen much MUCH worse from kids, but I just don’t see wall-walking as any sort of big deal.

Victor

seahorse wrote: »

'bleedin mind yerselves, will ya'!

Cue a half dozen 8 year olds falling off wall through neighbour's glass house.

matiz

A block of apartments was built about 8 ago behind my house. The developers raised the level of the footpaths in the complex, so the local kids were hopping up onto my kitchen's flat roof and jumping off. After much complaining from me, the management company put up railings around my back wall, but left a gap so the kids can still get onto my flat roof.

They're also swinging out of the railings and I'm afraid they'll pull them down on top of themselves.

Would I be to blame if there was an accident, as I asked the management company to do something about the problem?

:mad:

faceman

matiz wrote: »

A block of apartments was built about 8 ago behind my house. The developers raised the level of the footpaths in the complex, so the local kids were hopping up onto my kitchen's flat roof and jumping off. After much complaining from me, the management company put up railings around my back wall, but left a gap so the kids can still get onto my flat roof.

They're also swinging out of the railings and I'm afraid they'll pull them down on top of themselves.

Would I be to blame if there was an accident, as I asked the management company to do something about the problem?

:mad:

You have a bit more room to follow up on your issue as the management company is a limited company and they are responsible for the grounds of the appartment complex. If the kids are on the railings and fall, then im pretty sure (although i obviously havent seen the place) the management company would be liable. I would get back onto them about fixing the gap too.

Victor's suggestion of making an upside V with the mortar on the top of the wall is a good idea. its not illegal and i doubt the kids would take a chance.

matiz

Thanks, I think I'll give the management company a shout to see if they can fix the gap. I'll also highlight the fact that they're swinging out of the railings. Dunno why I didn't think of it before! Doh! :rolleyes:

Greaney

Can I just say, I totally understand how annoying children walking on ones wall can be because a) when the folk who live in the house feel it's a problem, trust me, it's not once in a blue moon, and it's not kids who are friendly with the household usually

and b) it was a bit problem with some children in our area who did not live on the estate I live in. My poor neighbours would be eating dinner, and these kids would just sit on the wall and look at them. They teased the dogs in the garden, they took stuff.... the list goes on.

Also, if the children fall into your garden there is the issue of litigation. I know one parent who threatened to sue a householder for a wee fall their child had in a garden they had neither permission nor invitation to play in.

For those who don't know what the problem is, it's obvious you've never experienced it,

Only answers to it have already been given

Get super friendly and chatty (on no account loose the cool) and get to know them, they'll bog off or think your weird (both good outcomes).

Grow stuff up the wall to make it awkward and/or put capping on the wall so they can't walk on it.

It's a pain in the bum to put up with and my heart goes out to you.

Victor

8 months or 8 years?

matiz wrote: »

Would I be to blame if there was an accident, as I asked the management company to do something about the problem?

Their raised ground, their problem. Their railing, their problem. Your roof, ??? problem.

The management company need to ensure that the railings are structurally sound and complete. Anti-climb paint on the railings will keep the kids away.

Hanley

I can't for the life of me grasp why a home owner is liable if someone is stupid enough to fall off their wall and hurt themself. Also, which homeowner becomes liable? Is it a case of dumb luck depending on which garden the person falls into? (assuming the dividing wall is in the middle of two back to back gardens)

Can the homeowner countersue for trespass, damage to his garden from the fall and the emotional distress caused by seeing a child hurt themself??

seamus

Hanley wrote: »

I can't for the life of me grasp why a home owner is liable if someone is stupid enough to fall off their wall and hurt themself. Also, which homeowner becomes liable? Is it a case of dumb luck depending on which garden the person falls into? (assuming the dividing wall is in the middle of two back to back gardens)

Pretty much.

Can the homeowner countersue for trespass, damage to his garden from the fall and the emotional distress caused by seeing a child hurt themself??

The former two, probably. The latter, probably not.
The reality is that if you don't have public liability insurance a solicitor will tell someone that they'd be an idiot to bring a public liability case. A judge would be unlikely to award costs against a normal homeowner where the whole thing is down to parental negligence. Even if they did award costs, they wouldn't be worth the time and effort.

Of course, if you're insanely wealthy or otherwise did your best to make sure the child was hurt, you might have costs awarded against you.

If you do have public liability insurance, the solicitor will tell them to go for it. You're always better off not having public liability insurance for your private home.

From what I remember as a kid, walls with creepers growing across the top were not worth trying to walk on. Maybe have a look at nailing trellises to the top of the wall and allowing creepers to grow over it?

beetlebailey

For Gods sake it just kids walking on a wall, and as stated they are doing no harm!!!!!

Whats next, are we going to sue for tresspass if they play hide and seek out the front and one of them hides in our garden?

What about Halloween? Are we going to be terrorised if a couple of 5 year olds dressed up as spiderman and Barbie knock on our door looking for sweets?

Was no one on here every a child??