Rugby Facilities

toomevara

thehighground wrote: »

Illogical factional division is what I would describe the division between soccer & rugby in the UK.

Imo, the comparison doesn't hold, there's no ideological or political division, rugby clubs, both league and union co-exist with and groundshare amicably with Soccer all over the shop..LI and Wigan to name but two off the top of my head

I'd say its fairly logical to your average Ulster/NI county GAA player not to want to have anything to do with the people who govern soccer & rugby in NI.

TBH, with that comment your making my point for me. I'd say there's nothing logical or rational about it, its hateful tribalism and bigoted nonsense with feck all, with all due respect, to do with sport...People need to be bigger than this kind of stupidity and generally rise above that kind of tripe..

JWAD

thehighground wrote: »

So you judge sport on how global it is?

Erm...when discussing a country's success against other countries, I'd judge that country, not the sport. You wouldn't? :rolleyes:

thehighground wrote: »

Unlike Australia, the great sporting nation, Ireland hasn't had to resort to importing 18 year old Australians to play its indigenous games yet

VICball isn't called that for nothing. I'd take a deeper look at this end of the equation if I were you. Its not a coincidence that the latest efforts to achieve some form of remuneration for playing GAA sports being snubbed happen to happen at the same time some hard working agents sell their players to the only other market available to them.

thehighground wrote: »

Just trying to be helpful in pointing out to you that there is no need to be embarrassed about Ireland not winning any medals at the Olympics

Ireland win eff-all full stop. Olympics or no Olympics. You even get an open deck bus homecoming parade for losing here!!

thehighground wrote: »

Yes, I do think it is down to percentages and weather. Countries with large populations tend to win more competitions, medals etc. A decent climate does help - kids will probably enjoy running around more on a sunny day than on a freezing, wet day - so easier to get them to play sport from a young age

Well at least your generalisations havent changed since the last time you attempted to discuss Australia from an armchair's experience, eh? :rolleyes:

thehighground wrote: »

It does make odds. If GAA didn't exist, I suspect that both our soccer & rugby teams would do a lot better - reason - greater potential player pool to draw from.

Instead there is millions wasted on different stadia for different sports. Thanks for contributing to the original point Toomevara brought up.

thehighground

toomevara wrote: »

TBH, with that comment your making my point for me. I'd say there's nothing logical or rational about it, its hateful tribalism and bigoted nonsense with feck all, with all due respect, to do with sport...People need to be bigger than this kind of stupidity and generally rise above that kind of tripe..

Well, its not that easy to forget all this tribalism - particularly when the GAA & IRFU are 32 county organisations. You do realise that practically all the opposition (bar Cork) to the openng up of Croke Park came from the Ulster counties in the GAA.

What was considered a big breakthrough earlier this year, was the attendance the Minister responsible for sport (& culture) in Stormont attending his first ever gaelic football match in Newry (I think it was between Donegal & Down). Unfortunately, he has now been replaced by a person who supports the concept of a separate rugby team for Northern Ireland. None of the British sporting organisations have to deal with anything as remotely political, volatile and complex as that.

thehighground

JWAD wrote: »

VICball isn't called that for nothing. I'd take a deeper look at this end of the equation if I were you. Its not a coincidence that the latest efforts to achieve some form of remuneration for playing GAA sports being snubbed happen to happen at the same time some hard working agents sell their players to the only other market available to them.

My point was that since Australia manages its resources and develops its talents so well according to you, it seems strange that they should bother trying to recruit Irish gaelic players from the other side of the world, who according to you are short changed in skill development because too much money is squandered on building useless stadia. Why are they not recruiting a bit closer to home if they can't develop enough players from their 20m population.

Ireland win eff-all full stop. Olympics or no Olympics. You even get an open deck bus homecoming parade for losing here!!

Being a Munster supporter takes the sting out of Ireland winning eff-all I suppose. As for the open deck bus homecoming parade, that happened twice I think for the soccer lads. I doubt if it will happen again.

Well at least your generalisations havent changed since the last time you attempted to discuss Australia from an armchair's experience, eh? :rolleyes:

Sorry for the generalisations, but having lived in both Australia and Ireland, that would have been my experience.

JWAD

thehighground wrote: »

My point was that since Australia manages its resources and develops its talents so well according to you, it seems strange that they should bother trying to recruit Irish gaelic players from the other side of the world, who according to you are short changed in skill development because too much money is squandered on building useless stadia. Why are they not recruiting a bit closer to home if they can't develop enough players from their 20m population

By all means, ignore the coincidence that when GAA say no to money (paying it out, of course. Not like they've never got money for nothing in receipt), their players start heading to Australia.

thehighground wrote: »

Being a Munster supporter takes the sting out of Ireland winning eff-all I suppose. As for the open deck bus homecoming parade, that happened twice I think for the soccer lads. I doubt if it will happen again

Ah yes, the Munster element. That all-Irish team kicking arse all over the world. Well done Munster of course but ffs, thats it????

thehighground wrote: »

Sorry for the generalisations, but having lived in both Australia and Ireland, that would have been my experience.

You've lived in Aussie? You'd never guess. Where? Mt Isa??? lol

You still seem keen to waste millions of Euros. Well done.

thehighground

JWAD wrote: »

By all means, ignore the coincidence that when GAA say no to money (paying it out, of course. Not like they've never got money for nothing in receipt), their players start heading to Australia.

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Quote thehighground: "Obviously, with its large membership/ attendance at games, unpaid players, the GAA has been a bit more successful with developing grounds than rugby & soccer have. The GAA went for capacity and quantity - I think they are now upgrading them."
Posted on 09-07-2008, 22:48 - Post No. 16 in this thread.

---

Now, that you realise that I have not ignored any coincidence, will you please now comment on this:

My point was that since Australia manages its resources and develops its talents so well according to you, it seems strange that they should bother trying to recruit Irish gaelic players from the other side of the world, who according to you are short changed in skill development because too much money is squandered on building useless stadia. Why are they not recruiting a bit closer to home if they can't develop enough players from their 20m population?

Ah yes, the Munster element. That all-Irish team kicking arse all over the world. Well done Munster of course but ffs, thats it????

Well, a lot of your complaints seem to be more about having open top bus parades for people who have won nothing Munster have provided two legitimate opportunities in recent times. Its fair to say that Aidan O'Brien/Coolmore is kicking a fair bit of arse, as did Sonia O'Sullivan up to recently. (Actually, did Sonia not try to give Australia a bit of a digout in the Commonwealth Games as well )

You've lived in Aussie? You'd never guess. Where? Mt Isa??? lol

Maybe, just maybe you are not very good at guessing I lived in Perth (for a few month) & then moved to Adelaide which I really liked. Furthest north I travelled to was Cape York

You still seem keen to waste millions of Euros. Well done.

And you're obviously not a bit keen to comment on whether the Leinster Branch of the IRFU should have shared Donnybrook with Shamrock Rovers once they sold their grounds in Milltown. As far as I know there are no soccer clubs in that area of Dublin.

Or do you come from the school of thought that it should be just mandatory that the GAA share its grounds?

JWAD

thehighground wrote: »

Now, that you realise that I have not ignored any coincidence, will you please now comment on this:

My point was that since Australia manages its resources and develops its talents so well according to you, it seems strange that they should bother trying to recruit Irish gaelic players from the other side of the world, who according to you are short changed in skill development because too much money is squandered on building useless stadia. Why are they not recruiting a bit closer to home if they can't develop enough players from their 20m population?

They are recruiting a bit closer to home. The playerbase for pro-AFL is quite limited and with Irish players looking to earn a living from playing a similar version, they scout for good players from there.
If you want to continue putting 'words in my mouth' (yes, I know this is an internet forum), I said that squandering millions on stadia instead of spending on academies and development is a damn sizeable cause for Ireland's sh*thouse performance in sport internationally. You seem to prefer wasting money on stadia and are settling for said sh*thouse performances in sport internationally. Great. GAA and VICball are hardly international sports, by the way.

thehighground wrote: »

Well, a lot of your complaints seem to be more about having open top bus parades for people who have won nothing Munster have provided two legitimate opportunities in recent times. Its fair to say that Aidan O'Brien/Coolmore is kicking a fair bit of arse, as did Sonia O'Sullivan up to recently. (Actually, did Sonia not try to give Australia a bit of a digout in the Commonwealth Games as well )

Yes, for a modern western European country, this country has done eff-all.
Thanks.

thehighground wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe you are not very good at guessing I lived in Perth (for a few month) & then moved to Adelaide which I really liked. Furthest north I travelled to was Cape York

So you lived in one of the remotest cities in the country and another on the edge of desert. This is your knowledge of all things Aussie? lol

thehighground wrote: »

And you're obviously not a bit keen to comment on whether the Leinster Branch of the IRFU should have shared Donnybrook with Shamrock Rovers once they sold their grounds in Milltown. As far as I know there are no soccer clubs in that area of Dublin

Not keen? Its part of my point that this happens in the first place. Thanks again.

thehighground wrote: »

Or do you come from the school of thought that it should be just mandatory that the GAA share its grounds?

No, I'm for municipal grounds and less wastage of tax revenue. If you havent seen this already then thats not my fault.

thehighground

JWAD wrote: »

They are recruiting a bit closer to home. The playerbase for pro-AFL is quite limited and with Irish players looking to earn a living from playing a similar version, they scout for good players from there.

Right so. So a couple of GAA players, despite being genetically inferior to your average sporting Aussie bloke and being deprived of the best training facilities / academies here in Ireland from an early age because all the money is wasted on stadia are in fact up to playing Professional Aussie Rules in Australia. Great. Thanks for clearing that up.

If you want to continue putting 'words in my mouth' (yes, I know this is an internet forum), I said that squandering millions on stadia instead of spending on academies and development is a damn sizeable cause for Ireland's sh*thouse performance in sport internationally. You seem to prefer wasting money on stadia and are settling for said sh*thouse performances in sport internationally. Great. GAA and VICball are hardly international sports, by the way.

I didn't put any words in your mouth. You came up with them all on your own. And what is your point when you say that they are 'hardly international sports'?

Yes, for a modern western European country, this country has done eff-all. Thanks.

Thanks for thanking me (I'm not sure what I've done to deserve thanks though).

So you lived in one of the remotest cities in the country and another on the edge of desert. This is your knowledge of all things Aussie? lol

Well, since you have obviously lived in every city in Australia maybe you might fill us all in on the differences in lifestyle between them all.

Not keen? Its part of my point that this happens in the first place. Thanks again. No, I'm for municipal grounds and less wastage of tax revenue. If you havent seen this already then thats not my fault.

So, ah its tax money you don't like wasting. Well, this should cheer you up. It was cheaper on the tax payer for the Irish Gov. to give a contribution of 60m to the GAA for Croke Park and give the IRFU/FAI 180m for Lansdowne than actually build a National Stadium.

It was also cheaper for the Gov. to fund Munster rugby 9m to rebuild Thomond than spend 40m on building a municipal stadium in Limerick. Even if they have to give the GAA 9m for their stadium, they are still saving taxpayers money.

Hopefully that should clear it up for you.

JWAD

thehighground wrote: »

Right so. So a couple of GAA players, despite being genetically inferior to your average sporting Aussie bloke and being deprived of the best training facilities / academies here in Ireland from an early age because all the money is wasted on stadia are in fact up to playing Professional Aussie Rules in Australia. Great. Thanks for clearing that up

Are you just naturally a contrarian??? The few GAA players who are apparently good enough to play in Aussie are heading there while the sport attempts to break out of Victoria on a larger scale.

thehighground wrote: »

And what is your point when you say that they are 'hardly international sports'?

The point is Irish success abroad still remains f**k all no matter how many times Kilkenny win the hurling title or Kerry wins the football title.

thehighground wrote: »

Well, since you have obviously lived in every city in Australia maybe you might fill us all in on the differences in lifestyle between them all

You've been commenting on rugby union in Australia. Living in WA and SA gave you all this insight into how the game and its players are developed did it?

thehighground wrote: »

So, ah its tax money you don't like wasting. Well, this should cheer you up. It was cheaper on the tax payer for the Irish Gov. to give a contribution of 60m to the GAA for Croke Park and give the IRFU/FAI 180m for Lansdowne than actually build a National Stadium

????
240million euros has been spent needlessly, with money from people who have no say on where their money goes plus exchequer funding plus relevant sporting body's contribution, on two stadia instead of one. The other option to the taxpayer was to pay more? How so? You seem determined to flush as much cash down the dunny as possible. Well done.

The excuses you give for this are hilarious! Build more! Use the lot up.

thehighground

JWAD wrote: »

Are you just naturally a contrarian??? The few GAA players who are apparently good enough to play in Aussie are heading there while the sport attempts to break out of Victoria on a larger scale.

Yep, its hard when people don't just agree with you all the time.

So despite having a population of 20m, a great lifestyle and climate that encourages sport, you still need to borrow a few scrawny Irish lads to develop one of your sports!

The point is Irish success abroad still remains f**k all no matter how many times Kilkenny win the hurling title or Kerry wins the football title.

And I'd say that your average county hurling supporter would get more pleasure out of their county team hammering Kilkenny than hammering Australia. :rolleyes:

You've been commenting on rugby union in Australia. Living in WA and SA gave you all this insight into how the game and its players are developed did it?

I haven't commented on rugby in Australia at all. That comment (in response to one you made) was to backup my view that Australians will be better at sport than us Irish because Australians have a climate and lifestyle that is conducive to kids being active and spending a lot of time in the outdoors.

????
240million euros has been spent needlessly, with money from people who have no say on where their money goes plus exchequer funding plus relevant sporting body's contribution, on two stadia instead of one. The other option to the taxpayer was to pay more? How so? You seem determined to flush as much cash down the dunny as possible. Well done.

The National Stadium (the Bertie Bowl) would have cost the Irish taxpayer half a billion. The IRFU would have had to do something with Lansdowne Road as well - someone was going to have to pay for that.

If the Irish Gov. was to build a stadium in Limerick, what would have happened to Thomond Park? Would you expect Munster/ Shannon/UL Bohs to play in a 50,000 seater Municipal stadium (which is what it would be, because that's the capacity the GAA needs).

The excuses you give for this are hilarious! Build more! Use the lot up.

Not once have I suggested building more (upgrading existing maybe!). You are the one that wants to build municipal stadia!

JWAD

thehighground wrote: »

So despite having a population of 20m, a great lifestyle and climate that encourages sport, you still need to borrow a few scrawny Irish lads to develop one of your sports!

Your 20m theory doesn't wash because the games are as tribal as you excuse the sporting bodies for being. Yet......they still play in shared grounds. You support a ground for each sport being the way to be. AFL is not one of "my" sports, by the way. I may be an Aussie citizen but I'm as Irish as you appear to be, fella.

thehighground wrote: »

And I'd say that your average county hurling supporter would get more pleasure out of their county team hammering Kilkenny than hammering Australia. :rolleyes:

As narrow a point of view as the scope of the game you mention.

thehighground wrote: »

I haven't commented on rugby in Australia at all. That comment (in response to one you made) was to backup my view that Australians will be better at sport than us Irish because Australians have a climate and lifestyle that is conducive to kids being active and spending a lot of time in the outdoors

In a thread about entitled Rugby Facilities, you havent commented on it? Yeah, lifestyle which keeps all those kids indoors (??) is down to a sh*house climate is what makes Irish sportsters inferior. What a pathetic excuse :rolleyes:

thehighground wrote: »

The National Stadium (the Bertie Bowl) would have cost the Irish taxpayer half a billion. The IRFU would have had to do something with Lansdowne Road as well - someone was going to have to pay for that

Bull. The sporting bodies that it was aimed at would have been contributing also. The taxpayer didn't have a choice in 60million going to Croke Park for what was then closed off to everything else. They didnt have a choice in the GAA's sale and leaseback of the hotel beside it either.

thehighground wrote: »

If the Irish Gov. was to build a stadium in Limerick, what would have happened to Thomond Park? Would you expect Munster/ Shannon/UL Bohs to play in a 50,000 seater Municipal stadium (which is what it would be, because that's the capacity the GAA needs)

Not every good at this are you?

thehighground wrote: »

Not once have I suggested building more (upgrading existing maybe!). You are the one that wants to build municipal stadia!

No, I am the one who says they should have built municipal stadia in the first place but people rarely change. Tribalism ruled at the end of the day and as a result, millions wasted due to unnecessary overspending on more stadia than necessary.

Snickers Man

thehighground wrote: »

Well, its not that easy to forget all this tribalism - particularly when the GAA & IRFU are 32 county organisations. You do realise that practically all the opposition (bar Cork) to the openng up of Croke Park came from the Ulster counties in the GAA.

What was considered a big breakthrough earlier this year, was the attendance the Minister responsible for sport (& culture) in Stormont attending his first ever gaelic football match in Newry (I think it was between Donegal & Down). Unfortunately, he has now been replaced by a person who supports the concept of a separate rugby team for Northern Ireland. None of the British sporting organisations have to deal with anything as remotely political, volatile and complex as that.

Is there a point behind all this "nudge nudge", "wait till you hear" and "what do you think of that" innuendo?

thehighground

JWAD wrote: »

Your 20m theory doesn't wash because the games are as tribal as you excuse the sporting bodies for being.

Do you have a team that you like to see winning before another team ... well, if you do, you are being as tribal as any of the sporting organisations are? Could you explain to me what you mean when you say 'as tribal' ... I just get the impression (I could be wrong though) that you are not best pleased with anyone being 'tribal'.

Yet......they still play in shared grounds. You support a ground for each sport being the way to be. AFL is not one of "my" sports, by the way. I may be an Aussie citizen but I'm as Irish as you appear to be, fella.

I support sharing grounds where possible ... but you are basing it on how it works in Australia, ignoring that GAA has more requirements for pitch time because there are effectively 3 sports involved - Hurling, Gaelic Football, & Camogie plus all the minors etc. who get to play the big stadia at a young age. Are there any shared stadia back in Australia (or anywhere else in the world) which could have 4 games in a weekend played in them and even more if there are replays (which frequently happen for the GAA)?

And I have no idea why you are telling me that AFL is not one of 'your' sports and that you are Irish even though you are an Australian citizen (you seem to have the infamous Irish inferiorty complex anyway).

In a thread about entitled Rugby Facilities, you havent commented on it? Yeah, lifestyle which keeps all those kids indoors (??) is down to a sh*house climate is what makes Irish sportsters inferior. What a pathetic excuse :rolleyes:

I have commented on Rugby Facilities - what I haven't commented on is Australian rugby (and which you just misquoted me for doing :rolleyes:)

As narrow a point of view as the scope of the game you mention

.

Depends whether you just get your kicks about your country winning something or just enjoy sport (without all the tribal instincts coming out). As someone who likes rugby as much as hurling, the 'international' on Saturday morning (Aus v SA) was a very poor spectacle in comparison to the Cork v Galway hurling game on Sat. night (and Cork would be a big sporting rival!).

Bull. The sporting bodies that it was aimed at would have been contributing also. The taxpayer didn't have a choice in 60million going to Croke Park for what was then closed off to everything else. They didnt have a choice in the GAA's sale and leaseback of the hotel beside it either.

Since the GAA has about 800k members, its safe to say a fair few of them are taxpayers and are unlikely to begrudge the GAA anything. For the record, I don't think Irish taxpayers begrudge the IRFU/FAI the 180m for Lansdowne either and most would feel, like me, that we are short of sporting facilities in this country anyway and would be all for building more municipal facilities.

What I don't expect to happen is for Rugby Clubs / GAA / Soccer clubs etc. to hand over grounds they own to the local County Council to manage for them.

Not every good at this are you?

Good at what - hazarding a guess that Munster Rugby would like to keep playing out of Thomond Park rather than move to a new ground.

Actually, thats not a guess. Munster Rugby already decided to redevelop Thomond Park rather than move to what could have been a bigger ground!

No, I am the one who says they should have built municipal stadia in the first place but people rarely change. Tribalism ruled at the end of the day and as a result, millions wasted due to unnecessary overspending on more stadia than necessary.

Tribalism didn't rule that out. What ruled it out is that the country couldn't afford to build anything up to a few years ago and it was up to the individual sporting organisations to do the car raffles, organise the games etc. etc. The GAA were by far the most successful at doing that (due to not having to pay players, more popular sport, top players staying in Ireland etc.)

thehighground

Snickers Man wrote: »

Is there a point behind all this "nudge nudge", "wait till you hear" and "what do you think of that" innuendo?

Is there any point to this post - I suggest you read the post that I responded to

Snickers Man

thehighground wrote: »

Is there any point to this post - I suggest you read the post that I responded to

I did. And I still can't make head nor tail of what you're trying to say. Other than "the GAA shouldn't countenance sharing premises with any other sport".

That's your gut instinct. It's when you try to rationalise it that logic goes out the window.

RuggieBear

debate the posts not the poster. anymore personal potshots and there will be bans.

Snickers Man

Yellow card acknowledged, Ruggie. But it's a harsh call IMHO.

Go on Highground. Knock his notebook out of his hand.

RuggieBear

not for you Snickerman.... for JWAD and thehighground!