Rugby Facilities

[Jackass]

I was going to post this in the thread about the Connacht ground share, but then thought that would be hijacking that thread altogether, as I wanted to talk about the facilities in Ireland as a whole for rugby and the IRFU.

It's a shame that the "boom" passed sport by in this country to an extent. For about 15 years we had unprecedented wealth, and only towards the very end did we finally do anything about the sporting infrastructure in this country.

With the exception of course, of the GAA who turned this into this.

Amazing really to think, that only in the final years of the boom did we finally take the finger out and develop Lansdowne from the ageing, outdated by 20 years stadium, into a modern, but still too small to meet the demand of its purpose stadium, and of course missed the boat completely to what is now running over budget and under funded thanks to a joint venture with the incompetent FAI and "Boom Time" sales estimates for corporate boxes & 10 year tickets. (which subsequently, the sales agent for this has pulled out of as the sales figures are not feasible, putting strain on a development already €101,000,000.00 over budget with the Government refusing a bail out.)

At the end we also managed to put together a half arsed redevelopment of Donnybrook, but failed to secure planning right to do the full development into a proposed approx 16,000 all seater stadium and put together a build on attachment to Thomond which is well conceived and cost effective and an equally cost effective development of Musgrave but perhaps less than what could have been achieved.

But, imo, if we had taken the opportunity, the IRFU and relevant associations would still have been able to afford it's independent ventures with Thomond, Donnybrook and Musgrave. Lansdowne would have been developed to its full potential of about 70,000 all seater (although I know planning had as much to do with this as budgeting) and there should have been Government sponsored ventures with the GAA, IRFU, FAI & Eircom League of Ireland (which was separate at the time) to build municipal stadiums in Cork, Dublin and Galway of about 20,000 seater stadiums that can be used for a range of activities, from sports to conference facilities etc.

An example being the great job they've done in Wales with Stadium development, they've now got one of the finest stadiums in the world in the form of the Millennium Stadium, they've built great Municipal grounds also, such as Liberty Stadium, home of the Ospreys and Swansea F.C. and the finest ground in the ML imo, Scarlets Stadium, which will be another fine modern ground for a welsh side, Cardiff have a decent ground too with plans to develop it and this will be the brand spanking new Rodney Parade, home of the Dragons, when it is redeveloped.

So in reality, compared to the Welsh sides, which will have 3 brand new Stadiums and a redeveloped one for their 4 provinces, we really are light years behind on infrastructure.

Imo, sportsground is a joke, and a 10 - 15,000 stadium development in the west would serve the FAI, GAA and IRFU well imo...if only we struck while the Iron was hot.

Munster have done the best out of everyone (as usual :rolleyes: ) and have secured a nice stadium, although you could argue during the good times, they could have done more with it and Musgrave.

Maybe a 40,000 seater Thomond as apposed to 25,000 seater one? (For HC - developing the terraces behind the goals also) And Musgrave developed to about 20,000 for ML games? (or am I getting carried away now?).

All in all though, if I was a Munster fan, I'd be delighted with the Thomond development as it is to be honest.

Ulster are developing a decent new stand too so they are ok, but again, could and should it be more?

And as for Leinster, although I love the RDS and all, we are still homeless, renting a ground, and when you look around, we really should have secured our own top class facility. It's all well and good, but is there a long term solution? Is RDS it? Is Lansdowne road really a possability down the line for the fan base to be big enough for that to be our "home ground" without half the seats empty half of the time?

I know some fans are very "pro" RDS, and I am to an extent, but I really think we need to sort out our own ground with our own facilities. (it's not as if RDS is a very modern ground either, although improving all the time, some of the facilities are still pretty shocking). I suppose I'd just love to see us get a ground like the Ospreys "Liberty Stadium".

I think Connacht (as a province) should have a ground developed to serve all of the west (and fan base will come, you need to plan for the future for the investment to work + facilities make a big difference to getting bums on seats) I definitely would love to see them develop a ground for a ground share with other sports.

But in the current climate, I don't think a ground share at Terryland park is such bad idea, although small (approx 5,000), would be ideal for now, but I do think it's important to get a level of ownership on the ground for the future.

A bit of a rant and collection of thoughts more than anything, but feel free to comment.

anonymous_joe

That's a nice wall of text.

Well written opinions, and pretty much bang on the money. (Excuse the unintentional and awful pun)

Lansdowne in particular strikes me as the biggest waste, the extra income from a 70,000 capacity or so would have been great for the IRFU. And thus rugby as a whole in this country.

Big Ears

While you are right that much more could have been done in the development of stadiums and facilities in the last few years, there has been much more done than just Croker,Thomand and Landsdowne .

Many Eircom League sides have either decided or been forced to improve their stadiums(to meet requirements) and although Turners Cross is technically owned by the Munster Football Association, Cork City have a top class ground for themselves down there . All that is left really is to roof the St.Anne's end of the ground and it will be an 8,000 all-seater completely covered stadium with very nice dressing rooms and other facilities .

Sligo, Waterford and Galway have all built very good stands .
UCD have built a new(partial) stadium, as have Athlone(which at the moment comprises of one top class stand) . These are only some improvements in recent times in the Eircome League, to get a full picture(if you have the time) read this:http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=43132

Also Drogheda, Derry City and Finn Harps all have plans at various stages for new stadiums, Drogheda's being very advanced and Finn Harps being fairly advanced . Not to forget Tallaght stadium has had work started on it again recently . Municipal stadiums would not have suited the Eircom league too well as no team attracts a big enough crowd to warrant playing in a 20,000 capacity stadium . Even a 15,000 capacity stadium would only be needed for friendlies against English sides, big European ties and league deciders .

The GAA have actually put a lot of work in county stadiums in the past few years, equipping many of them with floodlighting aswell as improving capacity, changing terracing to seats and improving general facilities within grounds . For instance the main ground in my own county(Semple Stadium) has been greatly improved as regards seating and facilites inside the ground goes within the last few years .

There are many developments in the near future for GAA grounds too and it has even been proposed to increase Páirc Uí Chaoimh to 60,000 . Of course proposals mean nothing .

Pearse Stadium was renovated only a few years ago, Nowlan Park(which is quite a nice stadium) has plans to develop it from the current 30,000 to 40,000 capacity .
Casement Park was done up 8 years ago, the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick was greatly done up in 2004 and this are just main examples, there are plenty of others .

Infact when you look into it , it seems the GAA are going to(or at least have plans to) upgrade any stadium in the country which hasn't had recent renovations .

So while many individual clubs and organisations in the country haven't done as much as they should, there has still been plenty of good work done throughout the country .

I hope I haven't gone too off-topic as I have barely referenced anything to do with Rugby facilities, unfortunately bar the developments with Landsdowne, Thomand, the proposed one at Musgrave and Donnybrook, I have little knowledge of any .

Worrytahs

anonymous_joe wrote: »

That's a nice wall of text.

Well written opinions, and pretty much bang on the money. (Excuse the unintentional and awful pun)

Lansdowne in particular strikes me as the biggest waste, the extra income from a 70,000 capacity or so would have been great for the IRFU. And thus rugby as a whole in this country.

To increase the capacity of a home rugby stadium in the capital would have meant moving altogether. Planning permission provided the only restraints on the stadium size. It is not a "waste" surely? It is simply the maximum size allowed for the site at Lansdowne Road to go ahead.
Its not going to be a concrete slab catering mainly for the Corporate customer. The facilities will be absolutely brilliant and everybody at the stadium benefits from these, not just the top end of the ticketing market. Access, toilets, food etc all easily accessible and well dispersed.
I've had a tour around the site and cannot wait until 2010 when its completed.

zAbbo

I don't know the exact details, but Ulster could have moved to a new stadium at the Maze prison site, I think the government had substantial grants as well.

Instead they've opted to up the capacity at Ravenhill, which isn't a great stadium - facilities and location wise.

For Leinster, the RDS makes perfect sense - 19,000 capacity, while big games can be moved to LR.

Maintenance for a large stadium costs a lot, while having a half empty 50,000 stadium isn't ideal either.

Leinster have only been in the RDS 1 season, and improvements are being made - thanks to feedback to the branch, and hopefully many match day aspects will be improved in the coming season.

tHE vAGGABOND

As a Leinster season ticket holder I really like the RDS, and believe Leinster have signed a reasonably long lease on it. They are covering the new stand. Its right in central dublin, and the average attendance last year was around 12k, and they have sold over 10k season tickets alone already for next season, so Im not the only one who likes it. Yes its not 'ours' but I understand they have a pretty good deal on it, with the long lease, so everyone makes a few quid on it!

They have done up Donnybrook for schools games, and other 'smaller' games [eg: Leinster playing friendly against Queensland Reds there in august].

Thomand Park has a fancy new lick of paint and will be well used. [What happens to Musgrave park now is the big question?].

Its a pity Ulster get nothing done to their arena, but at least there are moves for a new stadium in belfast, but its being held up by politics [they wanted to put it on old maze prizon site!]

How many times a season do Connacht get anything close to capacity in the Showgrounds? The average attendance for last year was in the ball park of 2500, which is tiny to be fair. They don't need a new stadium, until they start getting more bum's on seats IMHO.

thehighground

I agree largely with what [Jackass] has to say, except that I think Lansdowne Road will be more than adequate as I've read recently that the 1 million match fee for Croke Park is coming in very handy to the GAA (presumably upgrading all their facilities around the country!), so I would expect the bigger games (England / ABs) to run out in Croke Park instead of Lansdowne. As regards the FAI, I feel sorry for them in one way as they nearly had their own ground, but Bertie stopped them and without them, the IRFU would probably only have got 90m from the Irish Government.

I think Connacht really needs to be looked at - it hasn't really caught on in Galway and I wonder would it be better if it was moved to Athlone - it would pick up a lot of supporters from the midlands (from Leinster more than likely - but those people are not going to make the RDS on a Friday night for a Magners League game anyway). All the professional rugby is played in the rim cities of Ireland at the moment which isn't great really for developing the game.

And while we're on the subject what would Leinster fans think of Leinster having a second venue like Thomond/Musgrave in somewhere like Naas/Newbridge and playing the odd Magners League game there? Have a look at the proposed new (23K) Kildare GAA's stadium. You never know, maybe in a few years time?

http://broadford.kildare.gaa.ie/kildaresnewgaastadium.html

zAbbo

The Musgrave/Thomond Park split would seriously put me off, Imagine something similar for Leinster and having the mess of split season tickets and the hassle of getting out to Naas or somewhere for a Friday evening kickoff?

One of the huge positives for both LR & RDS is the location, which is very central and is well served with transport links.

Malmedicine

Big Ears wrote: »

UCD have built a new(partial) stadium

Soccer team using the rugby teams pitch.

Big Ears

Malmedicine wrote: »

Soccer team using the rugby teams pitch.

The stadium wouldn't have been improved to it's current status had the soccer team not moved there, and it's not like the rugby team own the pitch and the soccer team are renting, it's all owned by UCD .

JWAD

zAbbo wrote: »

The Musgrave/Thomond Park split would seriously put me off, Imagine something similar for Leinster and having the mess of split season tickets and the hassle of getting out to Naas or somewhere for a Friday evening kickoff?

Naas by suburban train would probably take less time than driving through town for the RDS

toomevara

The stadium situation in Ireland is crazy...a triumph of quantity over quality and no joined up thinking between the various sporting bodies. Too much factionalism and inter organisational rivalry (classically irish in this regard)...

if you look at the situation in Leeds, at Headingley, you've got one well designed, well thought out stadium in a relatively central area for three sports Rugby league, Rugby Union and cricket...you've got quite an harmonious relationship between the various sporting bodies, over the summer you can have a YCC cricket game and a rugby match being played at the same time, in the same location and accomodating both sets of supporters well..thats the kind of philosophy I'd like to see adopted in Ireland...

Malmedicine

Big Ears wrote: »

The stadium wouldn't have been improved to it's current status had the soccer team not moved there, and it's not like the rugby team own the pitch and the soccer team are renting, it's all owned by UCD .

Like what, the stuff they did this year, hardly earth shattering works, they added a couple of extra seats, turnstiles and a couple of sheds oh and a tv stand, pretty much same stadium. So if UCD can do it why not others emmmmmm????

Big Ears

Malmedicine wrote: »

Like what, the stuff they did this year, hardly earth shattering works, they added a couple of extra seats, turnstiles and a couple of sheds oh and a tv stand, pretty much same stadium. So if UCD can do it why not others emmmmmm????

They doubled capacity, added the roof, and plenty of other small things(such as turnstiles, concreted the walkways around the stadium), being honest I didn't want to get dragged into commenting on the UCD Bowl too much as it is a bit of a joke in Eircom League circles in it's current state .

Once they take down the roof and put up a cantilevered one(which will cover all the current seats) and add the other 3,000 seats to it things will be very different though .

John_C

Malmedicine wrote: »

Like what, the stuff they did this year, hardly earth shattering works, they added a couple of extra seats, turnstiles and a couple of sheds oh and a tv stand, pretty much same stadium. So if UCD can do it why not others emmmmmm????

Toilets and a shop are big improvements of you're trying to get people into a match. No one will claim it as a world class stadium but UCD gets about 500 a game for soccer and less for rugby, it suits their needs.

thehighground

toomevara wrote: »

The stadium situation in Ireland is crazy...a triumph of quantity over quality and no joined up thinking between the various sporting bodies. Too much factionalism and inter organisational rivalry (classically irish in this regard)...

IMO, you are being a bit harsh on Irish sporting bodies as they are the only ones to have done anything about stadia - the Irish Gov/County Councils haven't been to the forefront of building stadia around the country. Obviously, with its large membership/attendance at games, unpaid players, the GAA has been a bit more successful with developing grounds than rugby & soccer have. The GAA went for capacity and quantity - I think they are now upgrading them.

Some of the disputes that would arise from groundshare: size of stadium - GAA would want 30K+, soccer & rugby would be lost in that size of a stadium. Then there is the issue about the pitch size - rugby & soccer in NI have been making an issue out of this, with Ulster GAA looking for a stadium that is 35k+ and soccer & rugby want one that is about 20-25K. Its just not that simple really - some might feel there are too many compromises to be made and are willing to go it alone.

if you look at the situation in Leeds, at Headingley, you've got one well designed, well thought out stadium in a relatively central area for three sports Rugby league, Rugby Union and cricket...you've got quite an harmonious relationship between the various sporting bodies, over the summer you can have a YCC cricket game and a rugby match being played at the same time, in the same location and accommodating both sets of supporters well..thats the kind of philosophy I'd like to see adopted in Ireland...

Is Headingley a municipal stadium though? That would make all the difference as no one sporting organisation has put the hard work into developing their own stadium. It helps that the playing season between union & league/cricket are different ... and of course most people would follow soccer in the Leeds area anyway. Wonder why they are not sharing with Leeds United? And of course, there is also Twickenham & Wembley! Maybe we are not that bad after all!

Webbs

thehighground wrote: »

Some of the disputes that would arise from groundshare: size of stadium - GAA would want 30K+, soccer & rugby would be lost in that size of a stadium. Then there is the issue about the pitch size - rugby & soccer in NI have been making an issue out of this, with Ulster GAA looking for a stadium that is 35k+ and soccer & rugby want one that is about 20-25K. Its just not that simple really - some might feel there are too many compromises to be made and are willing to go it alone.

Out of interest in the GAA grounds how many of them are full for their game (Dubs in croker being the exception), as someone who isnt Irish it seems mad that each County has a stadium that can hold say 30000+ for what maybe one game a year?
Surely grounds that are full but of smaller capacity generate better atmosphere than the same numbers in big stadia.
I am using Connacht as an example, Mayo and Galway have 30k+ stadiums and it is only when they play each other do they get anywhere near full.

The mad and weird situation (from an outsider) that a county like Galway has a football stadium, a rugby stadium, and huge GAA stadium for a population that is equivalent to Swansea (city and not including the surrounding county including Neath etc) which has it all combined in one stadium. There just isnt the population to support that many stadia,

toomevara

thehighground wrote: »

Wonder why they are not sharing with Leeds United? !

Open wound that...with LUFC's plummet through the leagues, Elland road is a sad and forlorn sight these days...although they did hold the rugby league world club challenge there a couple of months ago and managed to fill it to 3/4 capacity..probably the biggest crowd its seen in a bit...

You do raise alot of interesting points re: the situation in Ireland and I recognise that there are unique political and cultural issues which have shaped the sporting landscape..but with the opening of Croke park to the IRFU/FAI, and the relaxation of alot of the sporting eejitry which ireland was subject too, I simply cannot understand why the various sporting bodies cannot get together and create good sporting facilities accomodating all codes..

I watched the Kilkenny/Wexford Leinster final last weekend and Croke park was a sad sight with under 20,000 in attendance...I think there are very few games on the GAA calender which will ever fill croker (perhaps 2/3)..and I'd imagine the GAA will be eating themselves when the IRFU complete landsdowne, with the loss of that lucrative revenue stream and the IRFU will be lamenting the fact that they could sell 20, 30,000 tickets more than their main stadium can accommodate for 6N matches..Most GAA fixtures can be comfortably accommodated in a 25-30,000 seater. Which incidentally would be ideal for say Leinster/Munster rugby. Its utterly ridiculous and completely illogical....

Indeed the Croker experiment shows the complete absurdity of the situation in Ireland in a stark light...In an ideal world the FAI,GAA and IRFU would simply groundshare both stadia...saving croker for the big days out and using landsowne for smaller occasions where a more intimate venue would whip up a bit of atmosphere...

Same could be said for the situation in Limerick where Thomond (surely the prettiest rugby stadium in the world)...could be used by the limerick gaa and munster rugby to the benefit of all...I find it simply incomprehensible that people aren't actively pushing for these kind of solutions...

Maybe I've just been away from ireland too long, but I just don't get it....

Snickers Man

toomevara wrote: »

The stadium situation in Ireland is crazy... no joined up thinking between the various sporting bodies. Too much factionalism and inter organisational rivalry (classically irish in this regard)...

if you look at the situation in Leeds, at Headingley, you've got one well designed, well thought out stadium in a relatively central area for three sports Rugby league, Rugby Union and cricket.....

You're absolutely right. But it's a big issue here, especially with regard to the GAA and its policy on ground sharing and it's beyond the reach of mere sports fans to solve. The Croke Park deal does show, however, that attitudes are softening. And the fact that the Rangers of Belfast, Linfield, allowed a local camogie team to use their all-weather facilities should put some to shame.

But to hark back to an earlier thread, whatever about the GAA and its constitution I think it's a shame there can't be better pooling of resources between soccer and football teams. The situation in Galway is a classic example. It shouldn't be beyond the ability of Galway United and Connacht to come up with a plan that would serve both of them.

Australia is a great place for ground sharing as well. They can't see any reason NOT to do it. And they're right.

JWAD

toomevara wrote: »

Indeed the Croker experiment shows the complete absurdity of the situation in Ireland in a stark light...In an ideal world the FAI,GAA and IRFU would simply groundshare both stadia...saving croker for the big days out and using landsowne for smaller occasions where a more intimate venue would whip up a bit of atmosphere...

Excellent point. The absurdity of it all should be highlighted by now. If people don't see how effed up all this tribalism is then just give up. (Lansdowne is too short for a GAA field, by the way).


The Challenge Cup final in Rugby League has been held in Twickenham. Lang Park is owned by Brisbane City Council and is used by both codes of rugby. Sydney Football Stadium in Moore Park (my favourite sporting square mile in the world) is owned by a consortium mainly populated by NSW cricket and is used by Soccer, Rugby League and Rugby Union.

If the government ever gave two stuffs about sport in this country and didnt use these sports as vehicles for making heaps of money in contracts for themselves or their friends this wastage of colossal amounts of money wouldn't ensue. Building municipal stadia is the key. Its only now that we actually see some investment in sport on a broad scale. This overlong delay is part of the reason that Ireland has been so abysmal in sports over the years.

il gatto

Pitch size is a major issue. I can't see many soccer teams or rugby teams wanting to put money into a pitch which is far too big. It's part of the reason for large capacity in GAA grounds. The perimeter of the pitch is substancially longer. Croke Park has a pitch of almost 145 meters long. Most soccer pitches are 100-110 meters. Rugby pitches are up to 100 between goal lines with 10-15 meters in touch at each end.
Because GAA fields are so big, the GAA has tended towards getting some height in terracing too as with low stands, seeing what's happening the far side of the pitch would be difficult.
Part of the reason Connacht get so few fans is that the Sportsgrounds have no atmosphere. It's a chicken and egg scenario. Why build it if nobody goes? If you don't build it, they never will. They've been lazy in promoting themselves as well.
I like the RDS. It's a nice groung in a nice aprt of Dublin and it's got a good atmospere. Better stadium than Doonybrook in every way imo.
Thomand is lovely looking and big enough 90% of the time.
Ulster may be right to develop Ravenhill. The Maze is out in the middle of nowhere. It's south west of Lisburn ffs. It's about 12 miles or more from the center of Belfast. They'd end up with a Juventus scenario when they moved out to Stadio delle Alpi. Their attendances dropped when they moved out of town. Dramatically dropped.

thehighground

Webbs wrote: »

Out of interest in the GAA grounds how many of them are full for their game (Dubs in croker being the exception), as someone who isnt Irish it seems mad that each County has a stadium that can hold say 30000+ for what maybe one game a year?

Not every county has a 30K+ stadium - tends more to be each province has about 2 decent sized grounds - Munster being the exception which has 4 grounds that are 40K+. While they mightn't be full for League Games, they do fill up for the Championship. 150k in total saw Limerick v Tipp x 3 times (2 Munster semi-final replays) last year.

Surely grounds that are full but of smaller capacity generate better atmosphere than the same numbers in big stadia.
I am using Connacht as an example, Mayo and Galway have 30k+ stadiums and it is only when they play each other do they get anywhere near full.

The mad and weird situation (from an outsider) that a county like Galway has a football stadium, a rugby stadium, and huge GAA stadium for a population that is equivalent to Swansea (city and not including the surrounding county including Neath etc) which has it all combined in one stadium. There just isnt the population to support that many stadia,

One of the reasons why Connacht doesn't have a decent ground is because it is shared - guarantee you if the IRFU owned a ground in Galway, it would be better cared for. All IRFU owned grounds are getting a facelift.

thehighground

toomevara wrote: »

You do raise alot of interesting points re: the situation in Ireland and I recognise that there are unique political and cultural issues which have shaped the sporting landscape..but with the opening of Croke park to the IRFU/FAI, and the relaxation of alot of the sporting eejitry which ireland was subject too, I simply cannot understand why the various sporting bodies cannot get together and create good sporting facilities accomodating all codes..

The GAA is far more advanced with ground ownership than the IRFU / FAI and really, they don't owe anything to anyone. There are a few grumbles here on this thread about the FAI being partners in Lansdowne Rd. Its not as if the GAA are not using their own pitches and not providing sporting facilities for young people.

I watched the Kilkenny/Wexford Leinster final last weekend and Croke park was a sad sight with under 20,000 in attendance...I think there are very few games on the GAA calender which will ever fill croker (perhaps 2/3)..and I'd imagine the GAA will be eating themselves when the IRFU complete landsdowne, with the loss of that lucrative revenue stream and the IRFU will be lamenting the fact that they could sell 20, 30,000 tickets more than their main stadium can accommodate for 6N matches..Most GAA fixtures can be comfortably accommodated in a 25-30,000 seater. Which incidentally would be ideal for say Leinster/Munster rugby. Its utterly ridiculous and completely illogical....

A Kilkenny/Wexford game wasn't going to attract too many supporters because Kilkenny are sick of winning things and Wexford supporters probably didn't fancy a drive to Dublin to see themselves getting slaughtered by Kilkenny. It was a Leinster Final though, so I presume that is why it was held in Croke Park. Leinster/Dublin could do with a 2nd GAA ground of about 30K+ capacity (Parnell Park's capacity is only 13k) which is too small, so Croke Park gets used far more than it should by Leinster teams. Of course the Dub supporters don't like travelling outside of Dublin either. Portlaoise holds 28K which is used a good bit for Leinster games.

Indeed the Croker experiment shows the complete absurdity of the situation in Ireland in a stark light...In an ideal world the FAI,GAA and IRFU would simply groundshare both stadia...saving croker for the big days out and using landsowne for smaller occasions where a more intimate venue would whip up a bit of atmosphere...

Same could be said for the situation in Limerick where Thomond (surely the prettiest rugby stadium in the world)...could be used by the limerick gaa and munster rugby to the benefit of all...I find it simply incomprehensible that people aren't actively pushing for these kind of solutions...

Maybe I've just been away from ireland too long, but I just don't get it....

I'd say Croke Park has more games played in it than your average English premiership club and definately more than the Millenium Stadium. There have been problems with wear and tear on the pitch since rugby & soccer are being played there - in fact, in an effort to conserve the pitch, rugby & soccer only get one short training session in Croke Park (none of the GAA teams get any time prior to their game).

Thomond Park wouldn't be big enough for the GAA - there was 48.5K at the Munster Hurling final in Limerick on Sunday - with 'toomevara' as your user name I presume you were watching it:D (Thomond from the Gaelic Grounds looked fantastic).

thehighground

JWAD wrote: »

Excellent point. The absurdity of it all should be highlighted by now. If people don't see how effed up all this tribalism is then just give up. (Lansdowne is too short for a GAA field, by the way).

The Challenge Cup final in Rugby League has been held in Twickenham. Lang Park is owned by Brisbane City Council and is used by both codes of rugby. Sydney Football Stadium in Moore Park (my favourite sporting square mile in the world) is owned by a consortium mainly populated by NSW cricket and is used by Soccer, Rugby League and Rugby Union.

If the government ever gave two stuffs about sport in this country and didnt use these sports as vehicles for making heaps of money in contracts for themselves or their friends this wastage of colossal amounts of money wouldn't ensue. Building municipal stadia is the key. Its only now that we actually see some investment in sport on a broad scale. This overlong delay is part of the reason that Ireland has been so abysmal in sports over the years.

I'd wager a bet that a lot of countries would love a bit of our 'effed' up tribalism. Basically, it gets bums on seats. Australian rugby seems to be struggling in the midst of all these wonderful stadia - they can't even fill a stadium for a game between themselves and their biggest rivels, the ABs!

JWAD

thehighground wrote: »

I'd wager a bet that a lot of countries would love a bit of our 'effed' up tribalism. Basically, it gets bums on seats. Australian rugby seems to be struggling in the midst of all these wonderful stadia - they can't even fill a stadium for a game between themselves and their biggest rivels, the ABs!

Were the equivalent to be prevalent in Australia, there would three times more stadia than needed.
The tribalism I referred to squanders money on building more stadia than necessary instead of investing in sporting development. Hence Ireland's utterly embarrassing record on the world stage in team and individual sports. Thats what I meant. The Olympics are going to be a hoot.

Aussie has still won the RWC twice despite being generally the third code and in its sh*tty current state lies in the shadow of NRL/Origin, AFL and nowadays, A League soccer. Rugby Union was never the no.1 sport in the country. That is why there are very few rugby union dedicated stadia there. I myself can think of only one (Ballymore in Brisbane). Having read your previous posts on the subject of investment in stadia, you support the Money Pit method from what I see. You should get a job in the Ministry for Sport or even better still, the GAA and show us all how to waste other people's money.

thehighground

JWAD wrote: »

Were the equivalent to be prevalent in Australia, there would three times more stadia than needed.
The tribalism I referred to squanders money on building more stadia than necessary instead of investing in sporting development. Hence Ireland's utterly embarrassing record on the world stage in team and individual sports. Thats what I meant. The Olympics are going to be a hoot.

Interesting that the Aussie Rules people are spending a lot of time recruiting Irish GAA players (whose governing body 'squanders' money on stadia. From all accounts, Irish GAA players are considered to be far more skillful than the Aussie Rules players. Pity they can't put some of all the money they are saving on stadia into developing their own skilfull player.

There is no dishonour in not winning a medal at that drug fest.

Aussie has still won the RWC twice despite being generally the third code and in its sh*tty current state lies in the shadow of NRL/Origin, AFL and nowadays, A League soccer. Rugby Union was never the no.1 sport in the country. That is why there are very few rugby union dedicated stadia there. I myself can think of only one (Ballymore in Brisbane). Having read your previous posts on the subject of investment in stadia, you support the Money Pit method from what I see. You should get a job in the Ministry for Sport or even better still, the GAA and show us all how to waste other people's money.

Australia has a population of 20 million. It also has a great climate for the outdoors/sports (Sonia O'Sullivan went there to train for 6 months each year). Oh, and rugby was never the no. 1 sport in Ireland (in a population of 5 million).

Oh, and thanks for the career advice. Its an awful pity that the Leinster Branch didn't take in Shamrock Rovers into Donnybrook after they sold off their grounds in Milltown all those years ago when they were homeless!

JWAD

thehighground wrote: »

Interesting that the Aussie Rules people are spending a lot of time recruiting Irish GAA players (whose governing body 'squanders' money on stadia. From all accounts, Irish GAA players are considered to be far more skillful than the Aussie Rules players. Pity they can't put some of all the money they are saving on stadia into developing their own skilfull player

Pity they what? How can you gauge whose players are more skillful or not? Desperate reply there, fella. Personally I couldnt give a stuff about VICball or for that matter GAA. Hardly global games. I do know which of them is a money pit that lives on other people's efforts and cash though.

thehighground wrote: »

There is no dishonour in not winning a medal at that drug fest

Part of the problem is that others involved also think out of spite like that. Hence no-one wins eff-all.

thehighground wrote: »

Australia has a population of 20 million. It also has a great climate for the outdoors/sports (Sonia O'Sullivan went there to train for 6 months each year). Oh, and rugby was never the no. 1 sport in Ireland (in a population of 5 million)

You think that its down to percentages and weather do you? Lol! How about investment? Academies? Professionalism in not only playing/competing but running the sports?

Rugby union was never anywhere the no.1 sport in Australia yet they've won the RWC twice. I never said rugby union was the no.1 sport here. It makes no odds. Ireland have won bugger all anyway.

toomevara

JWAD wrote: »

Ireland have won bugger all anyway.

I think St.Johnny of Logan might have something to say about that....!!And we easily win the annual award for the most illogically factional and pointlessly divided nation in the field of sport...

JWAD

toomevara wrote: »

I think St.Johnny of Logan might have something to say about that....!!

toomevara wrote: »

And we easily win the annual award for the most illogically factional and pointlessly divided nation in the field of sport...

Exactly and the results speak for themselves.

thehighground

JWAD wrote: »

Pity they what? How can you gauge whose players are more skillful or not? Desperate reply there, fella. Personally I couldnt give a stuff about VICball or for that matter GAA. Hardly global games. I do know which of them is a money pit that lives on other people's efforts and cash though.

So you judge sport on how global it is? If that is the case, you should confine your interest to soccer which is the only truly global game. Rugby certainly isn't.

Unlike Australia, the great sporting nation, Ireland hasn't had to resort to importing 18 year old Australians to play its indigenous games yet.


AFL - Breaking News: THE Brisbane Lions have quietly smuggled the latest Irish Gaelic football junior star into the country for two-week trial.

Conor Meredith, 18, arrived in Brisbane on Tuesday night and joined the Lions for a light training session at the Gabba yesterday.

Meredith hails from Lion Colm Begley's home county Laois, but was spotted by Brisbane football manager Graeme Allan playing at Dublin City University.

Meredith, from the O'Dempsey's club in Killenard, is one of Ireland's brightest junior stars. He is on a GAA football scholarship to study in Dublin.

Allan, who also saw him play county football for Laois, described him as a strong-running athletic type. "

Part of the problem is that others involved also think out of spite like that. Hence no-one wins eff-all.

Just trying to be helpful in pointing out to you that there is no need to be embarrassed about Ireland not winning any medals at the Olympics.

You think that its down to percentages and weather do you? Lol! How about investment? Academies? Professionalism in not only playing/competing but running the sports?

Yes, I do think it is down to percentages and weather. Countries with large populations tend to win more competitions, medals etc. A decent climate does help - kids will probably enjoy running around more on a sunny day than on a freezing, wet day - so easier to get them to play sport from a young age.

Rugby union was never anywhere the no.1 sport in Australia yet they've won the RWC twice. I never said rugby union was the no.1 sport here. It makes no odds. Ireland have won bugger all anyway.

It does make odds. If GAA didn't exist, I suspect that both our soccer & rugby teams would do a lot better - reason - greater potential player pool to draw from.

thehighground

toomevara wrote: »

And we easily win the annual award for the most illogically factional and pointlessly divided nation in the field of sport...

Illogical factional division is what I would describe the division between soccer & rugby in the UK.

I'd say its fairly logical to your average Ulster/NI county GAA player not to want to have anything to do with the people who govern soccer & rugby in NI. A lot has been done so far to move on from this position (i.e., the opening up of Croke Park) - there is a bit more to be done.