Campervans not wanted in North Kerry

pastense

I have no doubt there are citizens who have the facilities to create private 'Aires' all over this country But the Councils wont allow it because they want campsites with a large development levy to be collected.
Truckers park overnight in many places and often in numbers on established commercial premises and nobody bats an eyelid but if some enterprising person made this facility available to Motorhomes then there would be 'planning' issues in no time.
Perhaps we need some representation as a united group.

niloc1951

pastense wrote: »

I have no doubt there are citizens who have the facilities to create private 'Aires' all over this country But the Councils wont allow it because they want campsites with a large development levy to be collected.
Truckers park overnight in many places and often in numbers on established commercial premises and nobody bats an eyelid but if some enterprising person made this facility available to Motorhomes then there would be 'planning' issues in no time.
Perhaps we need some representation as a united group.

Waterford County Council have recently granted permission for a motorhome parking facility with 37 bays based on the French 'Aire' concept on a greenfield site. Cork County Council have also granted permission for a similar project at Youghal.

The granting of permission by the owner of existing parking facilities to client/customer to park his/her vehicle there overnight is within the owners rights, unless the original planning permission forbade the overnight parking of vehicles or specified certain categories of vehicle could not park there.

It should be remembered that a motorhome, or to give it its legally correct name a motorcaravan, is by EU definition in the same vehicle category as a car.
The law has been tested in Europe and courts have ruled that access to the public road and public parking area can only be restricted on the basis of the potential of vehicles over a certain size or weight to cause damage to any of the infrastructure of the parking area and vehicles cannot be denied access the simple basis of category or use.

Onetraveller

They's laws are for travellers not ye just set up a camp on the side of the road we've done it for 100s of years and will do it for 100s more and for toilets behind a big fat tree

gozunda

sunchaser wrote:

It was stated that some users of camper vans were observed urinating outside their camper and others were observed emptying their chemical toilet in a hole dug in the beach.

I visited a small local beach in Kerry this summer - a campervan parked up over 2 days and proceeded to use the area beside the entrance to the beach as a toilet/disposal area - the stench was overpowering. I say fleck away off and pay for some facilities or at at least dispose of responsibly. Cheapskate who didn't give a damn about an otherwise unspoilt beach and rural area :mad:
Personally I support Kerry Co Co action with this type of behaviour going on.

pastense

Onetraveller wrote: »

They's laws are for travellers not ye just set up a camp on the side of the road we've done it for 100s of years and will do it for 100s more and for toilets behind a big fat tree

Which part of Kerry do you represent on the Council

pastense

gozunda wrote: »

I visited a small local beach in Kerry this summer - a campervan parked up over 2 days and proceeded to use the area beside the entrance to the beach as a toilet/disposal area - the stench was overpowering. I say fleck away off and pay for some facilities or at at least dispose of responsibly. Cheapskate who didn't give a damn about an otherwise unspoilt beach and rural area :mad:
Personally I support Kerry Co Co action with this type of behaviour going on.

Did you think about calling the Guards at all because that's what I would have done

niloc1951

gozunda wrote: »

I visited a small local beach in Kerry this summer - a campervan parked up over 2 days and proceeded to use the area beside the entrance to the beach as a toilet/disposal area - the stench was overpowering. I say fleck away off and pay for some facilities or at at least dispose of responsibly. Cheapskate who didn't give a damn about an otherwise unspoilt beach and rural area :mad:
Personally I support Kerry Co Co action with this type of behaviour going on.

You never get that elsewhere in Europe because local councils provide facilities to empty toilet tanks and waste water tanks for a modest fee which we are delighted to pay.

BTW if you were a good citizen and really concerned with the environment you should have taken the reg number of the offender and reported them to the Gardaí.
There are litter laws which should be enforced, problem is they are usually not.
You wouldn't get away with a fraction of what goes on here in another country, dirty Ireland for sure, it's a pleasure to travel in Europe, unfortunately.

Onetraveller

pastense wrote: »

Which part of Kerry do you represent on the Council

Kerry traveller COCO

liam7831

Why cant ppl use a caravan park??

niloc1951

liam7831 wrote: »

Why cant ppl use a caravan park??

People with motorhomes do use caravan parks.

It's about choice, unlike people with caravans and tents who need the facilities of camping sites, people with motorhomes do not always need the facilities of a caravan park that's why so many of us resent others attempting to force us to pay for something you don't need.

liam7831

niloc1951 wrote: »

People with motorhomes do use caravan parks.

It's about choice, unlike people with caravans and tents who need the facilities of camping sites, people with motorhomes do not always need the facilities of a caravan park that's why so many of us resent others attempting to force us to pay for something you don't need.

So you think you should be provided with free facilities is it?, ie parking

Irishgoatman

liam7831 wrote: »

So you think you should be provided with free facilities is it?, ie parking

Unless I somehow missed it I haven't seen anybody on this thread objecting to parking charges. In fact I don't think they've been mentioned.
Parking doesn't usually come under the heading of "facilities". It's something that all road users need.

gozunda

niloc1951 wrote: »

You never get that elsewhere in Europe because local councils provide facilities to empty toilet tanks and waste water tanks for a modest fee which we are delighted to pay.

Regardless whether there were gold plated local facilities or otherwise these paragons of virtue had a duty to take their sh1te with them and not dump it on a beautiful and otherwise pristine beach

niloc1951 wrote: »

BTW if you were a good citizen and really concerned with the environment you should have taken the reg number of the offender and reported them to the Gardaí.
There are litter laws which should be enforced, problem is they are usually not.
You wouldn't get away with a fraction of what goes on here in another country, dirty Ireland for sure, it's a pleasure to travel in Europe, unfortunately.

Good citizens they were certainly not...

Their reg was noted and reported though I wont say by whom.

niloc1951

gozunda wrote: »

Regardless whether there were gold plated local facilities or otherwise these paragons of virtue had a duty to take their sh1te with them and not dump it on a beautiful and otherwise pristine beach



Good citizens they were certainly not...

Their reg was noted and reported though I wont say by whom.

Missed my point, re-read my post.
The good citizen I was referring to was yourself "if you were a good citizen and really concerned with the environment you should have taken the reg number of the offender and reported them to the Gardaí." and I am delighted their reg number was reported and it doesn't really matter by whom. Question is why did you not report them yourself if you witnessed the disgusting anti-social behaviour.

Irishgoatman

gozunda wrote: »

Regardless whether there were gold plated local facilities or otherwise these paragons of virtue had a duty to take their sh1te with them and not dump it on a beautiful and otherwise pristine beach



Good citizens they were certainly not...

Their reg was noted and reported though I wont say by whom.

The vast majority of campervan owners would utterly condemn the sort of behaviour you referred to and, I hope, would either speak to anyone they see dumping anything or report them.

I think by your tone and knowledge of camper owners that you are not one?. Like niloc I'm glad the people were reported but rather disappointed that a concerned citizen like yourself left it to someone else to do.

niloc1951

liam7831 wrote: »

So you think you should be provided with free facilities is it?, ie parking

No, why should you think that.

We are used to paying parking fees at motorhome parking areas. FYI the the cost can range from free to up to €12 per 24 hours depending on the locality.
Some town/villages offer the parking for free to encourage motorhome based tourists to visit their locality and spend some money in their local economy.

The most popular 'touristy' places will charge up to €12 in the high season in the knowledge that their facility will always be full. Such places can have up to 200 parking places.

€35 p/d in Dublin.

niloc1951

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

€35 p/d in Dublin.

I've paid about half that at a beautiful campsite on the banks of The Seine in Paris where I enjoyed a glass of wine (which cost a third of the price here) as I watched the river traffic go by .

gozunda

niloc1951 wrote: »

Missed my point, re-read my post.
The good citizen I was referring to was yourself "if you were a good citizen and really concerned with the environment you should have taken the reg number of the offender and reported them to the Gardaí." and I am delighted their reg number was reported and it doesn't really matter by whom. Question is why did you not report them yourself if you witnessed the disgusting anti-social behaviour.

Yes I know - I was ignoring it. The matter is independent of whether I am a 'good citizen' and btw I dislike the contrast between my position as an observer and a bunch of gobsheens using a pristine beach as their dumping ground for their sh1te. Why do you have to question whether I reported it or otherwise - what exactly has that got to do with the matter? As stated the reg was noted and reported. End of story.

gozunda

Irishgoatman wrote: »

The vast majority of campervan owners would utterly condemn the sort of behaviour you referred to and, I hope, would either speak to anyone they see dumping anything or report them.

I think by your tone and knowledge of camper owners that you are not one?. Like niloc I'm glad the people were reported but rather disappointed that a concerned citizen like yourself left it to someone else to do.

As you said all right thinking individuals / campervan owners would condemn the act of dumping sh1te on a beach. Why do you think I don't have a campervan? Because I am disgusted by what happened? To be honest Kerry Co Co have indicated that this is occurring elsewhere - this is inexcusable whether there are facilities or otherwise. Individual responsibility is uppermost where an individual / group decide to go camping. Even with a campervan - it would be my duty to leave no trace and either find suitable facilities (and amend any itininery by reason of) or take it away with me and Not dump it where it will cause all those with campervans and anyone who actually has to use the beach to suffer the consequences.

As I already clearly said, I am making no statement as to the manner in which the incident was noted and reported.

niloc1951

gozunda wrote: »

As you said all right thinking individuals / campervan owners would condemn the act of dumping sh1te on a beach. Why do you think I don't have a campervan? Because I am disgusted by what happened? To be honest Kerry Co Co have indicated that this is occurring elsewhere - this is inexcusable whether there are facilities or otherwise. Individual responsibility is uppermost where an individual / group decide to go camping. Even with a campervan - it would be my duty to leave no trace and either find suitable facilities (and amend any itininery by reason of) or take it away with me and Not dump it where it will cause all those with campervans to suffer the consequences.

As I already clearly said, I am making no statement as to the manner in which the incident was noted and reported.

Why don't you have a campervan? is it because you were disgusted by what happened?.
Follow that logic and you shouldn't have a car either, some people use those in a manner which maim and kill people

gozunda

niloc1951 wrote: »

Why don't you have a campervan? is it because you were disgusted by what happened?.
Follow that logic and you shouldn't have a car either, some people use those in a manner which maim and kill people

Erhh - where did I say I did or didn't have a campervan? My reply was rhetorical. I would be disgusted as to what happened in either scenario - neither of which btw are relevant.

I don't know too any motorists that deliberately decide to mow down and kill people unlike the refered incident where some lovely people using a campervan decided to empty their sh1te onto a pristine beach. Following the logic you employed there is no logic...

se conman

Too much tit for tat going on now. The fact is that , as in most cases, the majority are being tainted by the minority. 99.9% of motorhomers "leave no trace" I won't even put my rubbish in litter bins as in my opinion they are not for my "domestic rubbish" We are just back from a one nighter, broke the bye law of no overnight parking, but still manager to leave no trace that we had been there and left over €80 in local restaurants. Which was more welcome? An empty space in a car park or my €80?

gozunda

se conman wrote: »

Too much tit for tat going on now. The fact is that , as in most cases, the majority are being tainted by the minority. 99.9% of motorhomers "leave no trace" I won't even put my rubbish in litter bins as in my opinion they are not for my "domestic rubbish" We are just back from a one nighter, broke the bye law of no overnight parking, but still manager to leave no trace that we had been there and left over €80 in local restaurants. Which was more welcome? An empty space in a car park or my €80?

Fair play in being conscientious about visiting places. Not saying in this case but I don't think that there is a comparison to be made between X euro/empty space/ and a load of sh1te on a beach. Unfortunately the majority (I believe) are getting dragged down by a small number of individuals and who are making conditions increasing difficult for all. Regarding a code of conduct such as leave no trace - is there any method by which campervaners ( to use an odd phrase) can be self policing? I don't know - I am just putting it out there.

se conman

Absolutely and under no circumstances do I, or most motorhomers condone leaving litter and ESPECIALLY the emptying of toilet waste or waste water anywhere except in disposal points.Most motorhomers revisit areas several times and are very protective of those areas. You should see my missus when she spots someone failing to pick up dog litter. She is straight out the door of the camper waving a doggie bag offering it to them. Shame is the only way to educate some people. I want to travel around Ireland, I don't really want to park in camp sites (it is hard to explain this until you have a camper) I have no problem paying for parking. But most importantly, if I see someone abusing facilities, thereby giving motorhomers a bad name and denying me the future use of said facilities then I will be straight onto the phone to the authorities and most motorhomers are the very same.
Banning all motorhomers based on the actions of a very small minority is akin to banning The Rally of the Lakes because of the actions of a few fools being reckless on the roads.

gozunda

se conman wrote: »

...
Banning all motorhomers based on the actions of a very small minority is akin to banning The Rally of the Lakes because of the actions of a few fools being reckless on the roads.

I agree but unfortunately that is a possibility as long as there are some that do. N Kerry co co are already on this road. What I am asking is there a way of counteracting this type of reaction through a united / agreed / self policing system. As I said I don't know the answer just that currently there does seem to be a problem especially where not accessing the paid facilities at least some of the time eg for organised waste disposal has resulted in 'some' campavaners using small litter bins and beaches for illegal waste disposal.

niloc1951

gozunda wrote: »

Fair play in being conscientious about visiting places. Not saying in this case but I don't think that there is a comparison to be made between X euro/empty space/ and a load of sh1te on a beach. Unfortunately the majority (I believe) are getting dragged down by a small number of individuals and who are making conditions increasing difficult for all. Regarding a code of conduct such as leave no trace - is there any method by which campervaners ( to use an odd phrase) can be self policing? I don't know - I am just putting it out there.

Self policing rarely works just look at the disasters caused by those organisations and companies who were left to self regulate or police themselves if you like.
My opinion is that we pay taxes to fund a state police force (An Garda Síochána) and I will report to them any contraventions of our laws which have a negative effect on me, my family or the environment in which I live if I so wish.

BTW, this "sh1te on a beach" is not confined to a few miscreant motorhome users, dog fouling and soiled disposable nappies are a common site on a lot of beaches and other public areas :mad:

gozunda

niloc1951 wrote: »

Self policing rarely works just look at the disasters caused by those organisations and companies who were left to self regulate or police themselves if you like.
My opinion is that we pay taxes to fund a state police force (An Garda Síochána) and I will report to them any contraventions of our laws which have a negative effect on me, my family or the environment in which I live if I so wish.

BTW, this "sh1te on a beach" is not confined to a few miscreant motorhome users, dog fouling and soiled disposable nappies are a common site on a lot of beaches and other public areas :mad:

Solutions not difficulties please. Self policing was just one suggestion - if there are better then do list them. Unfortunately the present debacle looks like there will be increasing restrictions on campervaning especially if other co co follow suit.

The issue at hand is not dogs or babies. No two or wrongs will make it right. "A few miscreant motorhome users" may result in restrictions on all.

niloc1951

gozunda wrote: »

I agree but unfortunately that is a possibility as long as there are some that do. N Kerry co co are already on this road. What I am asking is there a way of counteracting this type of reaction through a united / agreed / self policing system. As I said I don't know the answer just that currently there does seem to be a problem especially where not accessing the paid facilities at least some of the time eg for organised waste disposal has resulted in 'some' campavaners using small litter bins and beaches for illegal waste disposal.

The type of facilities required, paid for or free, are abundant throughout Europe there are over 7,500 in France alone. The majority of these types of facilities are provided by local councils and some by campsites situated outside the gates and subject to a fee.

Below are two examples, a low budget service area and a top of the range area, both provide for the disposal of grey and black water and provide refilling facilities for fresh water. Domestic refuse disposal facilities are also usually provided.

gozunda

niloc1951 wrote: »

The type of facilities required, paid for or free, are abundant throughout Europe there are over 7,500 in France alone. The majority of these types of facilities are provided by local councils and some by campsites situated outside the gates and subject to a fee.

Below are two examples, a low budget service area and a top of the range area, both provide for the disposal of grey and black water and provide refilling facilities for fresh water. Domestic refuse are also usually provided.

Fine - I know. Unfortunately we are not in mainland Europe and France etc can beat us in just about most public services.

Is there a campaign to lobby for such amienities at present? I havn't came across this if this is the case

Again what can be done now? ie Before campervans get banned from just about anywhere by co co reacting to the actions of those who are destroying it for everyone else?