Professional Gambling

wb

Mods, if this link is inappropriate, feel free to delete.

I've decided to try my hand at professional gambling for a while, just to see if I can make the cut. I'm recording the highs and lows on Let's Bet:

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=3431

Not sure if anyone here would be interested in reading, but I'm going to be as honest as I can.

It's something I've always wanted to try out, and have finally taken the plunge!

geurrp the yard

Very good article you have there.
First of all ill say you have some balls for to becoming a professional gambler. You wife must have the patience of a saint!
Id love to be professional gambler aswell as some blokes but would ya not find "the job" very emotional & stressful?
I see your mostly concentrating on horses. Any other sports, dogs football,rugby etc?

Would you ever attend the gallops or talk to trainers to find out how the horses are getting on?

Best of luck with it, id love to see it work out for you.

hotspur

This is really interesting and I'll be following it. In fact if you have any interest in documenting it beyond a blog I might be interested in doing something with it. What I mean by that is if you are interested in recording your experiences at a more substantial level it may make an interesting phenomenological account for the field of gambling studies. That was just my initial reaction, anyway PM me if you have any interest and we can talk about it. Who knows there might be a book about your exploits

wb

geurrp the yard wrote: »

Very good article you have there.
First of all ill say you have some balls for to becoming a professional gambler. You wife must have the patience of a saint!
Id love to be professional gambler aswell as some blokes but would ya not find "the job" very emotional & stressful?
I see your mostly concentrating on horses. Any other sports, dogs football,rugby etc?

Would you ever attend the gallops or talk to trainers to find out how the horses are getting on?

Best of luck with it, id love to see it work out for you.

It's pretty much going to be horse racing, although I do dabble the odd time in other sports. Just checked the p&l for the month and you can see that my other sports are not very strong. In fact, the soccer profit was partly due to a bet I placed for someone else so I can't claim credit here. I do some writing for Betfair, and done some for various newspapers, so I often chat to people involved in the scene. Regarding the stress, I've put enough aside for 'wages' completely separate to the gambling pot, as I couldn't put the wife through that!

mike65

Had to laugh about the modem being unplugged :eek:

wife=kitchen!

Mike.

punchestown

Best of luck wb. Keep the focus and your discipline and you have a chance.
Looking forward to reading your progress

63587614

Very interested in getting a look at this but unfortunately at work so access is denied.

However, I always noted that Horses is the best market to take on for the gambling punter. This market offers so much value.

But every year we hear of professional gamblers waging obseen amounts on particular horses whilst the consenus and public opt for others.

Cheltenham, for eg.

I always thought a soccer match would've been safer for this amount of money.

But value is the key I suppose which the horses do provide.

Fishyfreak

If you were a single man i'd be saying "Go for it, you've nothing to lose" but I see you are married with a young child, which is worrying.

I know a lot of people make a living out of it but I fail to see the value in it. The bookies never lose (granted they make most of their money from speculative muppet bets), don't want to rain on your parade but I reckon being a "part-time gambler" would be better.

Good Luck, You'll need it.

iggy

will look forward to seeing how you go.

Best of luck and hope it works out

wb

Fishyfreak wrote: »

If you were a single man i'd be saying "Go for it, you've nothing to lose" but I see you are married with a young child, which is worrying.

I know a lot of people make a living out of it but I fail to see the value in it. The bookies never lose (granted they make most of their money from speculative muppet bets), don't want to rain on your parade but I reckon being a "part-time gambler" would be better.

Good Luck, You'll need it.

I don't use the bookies, I use the exchanges which is completely different.


The reason I feel comfortable doing it is

a) It's only for a short time
b) I have given the wife a lump sum to withdraw weekly as 'wages' while I'm doing this, so the household money wont be affected
c) I'm using money that I won from laying horses to do it, so It's not coming from my wages or anything.
d) I have a job to go back to

Thanks for the feedback anyway, I appreciate all comments.

Mellor

I don't mean to sound rude, but what exactly counts as professional gambling?

Is it simply gambling when you don't have a job, or do you need to be making a living from it. Seeing as you have money aside and are living off it you are in a bit of a grey ares,
or maybe you are just testing the water, and will make bigger bets as you go on, enough to live off.

wb

Mellor wrote: »

I don't mean to sound rude, but what exactly counts as professional gambling?

Is it simply gambling when you don't have a job, or do you need to be making a living from it. Seeing as you have money aside and are living off it you are in a bit of a grey ares,
or maybe you are just testing the water, and will make bigger bets as you go on, enough to live off.

Yeah, I suppose it's fair to say it's a bit grey. I also do some writing work for Betfair and other places, so I'm counting that as income from racing.

I suppose, a better description would be that I'm trying to make a living from horse racing - whatever way possible. After the couple of months, I'll see how much I've made, and work out if it is the type of money that I could survive on.

myflipflops

Best of luck. I don't like the horses much myself for various reasons but each to his own and a key point is that you appear to be willing to put in the work to make money which most people aren't.

wb wrote: »

c) I'm using money that I won from laying horses to do it, so It's not coming from my wages or anything.

Slightly off topic but i never understand it when i hear people take this attitude. I hear it from profitable gamblers even, the idea that if it's money you have won off a bookie then it's not as bad losing it back or risking it again. I'm a firm believer that once you have won, that money is then solely yours and shouldn't be seen as something to punt back. (I know that's not the point you make here but you just reminded me of it.)

Keano

Best of luck with it wb. You really sound like you have you have the situation under control and have made sure your wife and kid wont be hoping you have a winner so they can survive!

I'll be keeping a check on your progress.

wb

pwhite587 wrote: »

Best of luck. I don't like the horses much myself for various reasons but each to his own and a key point is that you appear to be willing to put in the work to make money which most people aren't.



Slightly off topic but i never understand it when i hear people take this attitude. I hear it from profitable gamblers even, the idea that if it's money you have won off a bookie then it's not as bad losing it back or risking it again. I'm a firm believer that once you have won, that money is then solely yours and shouldn't be seen as something to punt back. (I know that's not the point you make here but you just reminded me of it.)

I see what you are saying, but that's not the attitude I hold. I was pointing out that I'm not risking the bill money to do this!

Money I've won however, is very important to me and I'm trying to build on it. In this lay thread for example, you will see that my starting bank was €1,000. The stakes were 1% of the bank. When it reached €2,000, I reduced the stake to 0.75% of the bank. The bank is now 2.5K so if and when it hits 3K, I'll reduce stakes further to 0.5% of the bank. What I'm trying to say is, I try my best to protect profit - but you need to spend money to make it too.

Vim Fuego

Best of luck wb, I'll be following this one as well.

I've always equated professional gambling to playing RPG videogames, it takes a lot of time and effort to grind your way up the levels. I've recently become interested in poker so I'm slowly grinding my way up the limit hold 'em tables and it does take a lot of discipline.

punchestown

Vim Fuego wrote: »

Best of luck wb, I'll be following this one as well.

I've always equated professional gambling to playing RPG videogames, it takes a lot of time and effort to grind your way up the levels. I've recently become interested in poker so I'm slowly grinding my way up the limit hold 'em tables and it does take a lot of discipline.

Ive always likened it to Golf myself. There are days when you go out and you cant do anything wrong (drives find fairways, fairways to green, putts going in all over the place) but there are days when you think you are doing nothing diffferent to the good days but nothing goes right and the harder you try to force it the worse it gets!

Grid.

Just a question for the professional gamblers, how long can you continue to collect winnings from the bookies before they tell you to take a hike? Obviously you may have several accounts on the go but is it long term?
Am startng to take it abit more serious myself now and would just like to know.Cheers

steveymp@hotmai

Gridlock wrote: »

Just a question for the professional gamblers, how long can you continue to collect winnings from the bookies before they tell you to take a hike? Obviously you may have several accounts on the go but is it long term?
Am startng to take it abit more serious myself now and would just like to know.Cheers

Wb uses Betfair a lot for his trading etc..... they are not a bookies, but an exchange as such, they are more than happy to see you gambling with others as they charge a commission on every win;) they will never suspend your account for being too successful:)

Keano

wb, what is your P&L looking like at the moment?

wb

Keano A Legend wrote: »

wb, what is your P&L looking like at the moment?

Thanks for the comments lads.

Vim, as Stevey says, I use the exchanges for most of my betting so there's no worry of getting 'knocked back' by the bookies.

Keano, I usually update the thread daily:

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?p=58723#post58723

But if you want a rough average figure, I've probably made just under the average industrial wage each week.

Grid.

steveymp@hotmai wrote: »

Wb uses Betfair a lot for his trading etc..... they are not a bookies, but an exchange as such, they are more than happy to see you gambling with others as they charge a commission on every win;) they will never suspend your account for being too successful:)

Nice one, that makes sense! Best of luck lads!:D

homah_7ft

How will you judge if your trial period has been successful?

wb

homah_7ft wrote: »

How will you judge if your trial period has been successful?

I've no hard and fast rule, but if I earn enough money over the period that would average out to be a weekly wage, then I suppose it could be considered a success.

wb

Gridlock wrote: »

Nice one, that makes sense! Best of luck lads!:D

If you're interested in the exchanges, I wrote a sticky a few years ago on the racing forum:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054910815

It's a bit old now, and Betfair have added a lot of new features, but the principles remain the same.

homah_7ft

I think you might need to factor in other benefits. Healthcare, pension etc. Good luck with it.

FlawedGenius

wb wrote: »

I've no hard and fast rule, but if I earn enough money over the period that would average out to be a weekly wage, then I suppose it could be considered a success.

So you quit ur job to do this? r ar u already working in the racing business?? What sort of soccer bets would you do for example? its everymans dream to beat the bookies and make a living from gambling.Fairplay man, wouldnt mind a few of your tips!

wb

GerCPM wrote: »

So you quit ur job to do this? r ar u already working in the racing business?? What sort of soccer bets would you do for example? its everymans dream to beat the bookies and make a living from gambling.Fairplay man, wouldnt mind a few of your tips!

I just took a few months off. I'm not really good at soccer to be honest! I stick to UK and Irish horse racing in the main. I do a certain amount of work in the racing business and have wrote for various newpapers and sites. I'm currently writing for betting.betfair.com

It's quite interesting so far, but bloody long hours!

Richard Stevens

I personally have tried numerous systems on laying and have always found it difficult over the long term to make any money.

My experience has been that you start off on a good run and think that this system might be the one that you can leech off and make a couple of hundred quid on each month, but eventually the 10/1 winner start winning and can wipe out days/ weeks of time and effort.

I am currently trialing a new system ( I don't think that I'll ever learn), where the author claims he can turn €100 into €5000 within about 2 months.
It involves laying in the place market on horse racing and the person supplies you with the tips and staking plan daily. Its currently 2 weeks into it and so far there has been 7 winning selections out of 7. Stakes are small to start off, growing as the winnings develop.
I always thought that its difficult enough to lay the winner never mind the place.

I applaude anyone who is disciplined enough to make a steady stream of cash from gambling as its difficult to stay emotionally detatched when gambling. I personally have tended to get carried away when hitting a winning streak and experience the lows when going through a bad patch.

Its very interesting to follow this story, especially when you dont have to cough up your own funds to see if it is really possible to make that extra income from gambling.

Has anyone else tried any systems successfully?
Although they do say the bookies love a system......

lemonhead77

hi Richard, what tria lsystem exactly are you trying out at the moment

Richard Stevens

I don't know what the selection criteria is, as its a subsciption service.
The person who runs it sends out the selections as they come up with a staking plan, usually 1 per day.

There are a small number of people invited into the system, which seems to run every few months. I paid £90 to join.
The system has started and is closed for members, until he hits the £5000 and then starts again. He says that it usually takes around 60 days.

I don't know if its going to work, as I said previously I personally find it hard to lay any horse for the win long term, never mind the place.
The person running it obviously has some system and we are running at 7 out of 7 bets so far.

As its a subscription service I can't give out any details, as it can only work on small numbers and I've paid a fee for the info.Large bets do actually cause a distortion in the market.

I'm happy to keep all informed as things progress if anyone is interested and if it proves successful put you in touch with the person running it, if he allows it.

I like the fact it starts off at small stakes betting bank of €100, so we are now trading with the winnings we have made, although it doesn't take much of a losing streak when laying for it all to go pear shaped.

I remain to be convinced..... but who wouldn't be drawn to the prospect of turning £100 into £5000

Collie D

A hundred quid doesn't sound like much of a starting bank for laying. One or two winners could send it all tits up. Unless your tipster is Miles Rogers

God Of Radio

I understand the highs must be really high, but when you aren't winning it'd seem like you wouldn't be able to sleep at night. Having a steady paycheck would be much more suitable for 99% of people.

Collie D

I get your point, God of Radio, but isn't it every gamblers dream to be able to quit the job and make a living from the sport they love?

Nothing annoys me more than people winning millions on Lotto and saying they're going back to the office/factory/building site on Monday.

wb

Collie D wrote: »

Nothing annoys me more than people winning millions on Lotto and saying they're going back to the office/factory/building site on Monday.

Agree 100%. Anyone who does that should have the money taken back off them!

wb

God Of Radio wrote: »

I understand the highs must be really high, but when you aren't winning it'd seem like you wouldn't be able to sleep at night. Having a steady paycheck would be much more suitable for 99% of people.

Good point, but a steady paycheck is grand if you love what you do. Most people don't.

If you think about it, what's the most precious thing in this world to humans - the one thing that can never be replaced?

Time.

All of our clocks are ticking down, so while there are a number of people that are happy spending eight hours of their day answering to someone, getting up at the crack of dawn for the daily grind, and living for a measly day or two off - others prefer to work for themselves. And, if it's something you love, it's not really work.

Without being to philosophical, I can assure you on my dying bed, I won't be saying "God, I wish I'd spent more time in the office".

It's just something I always wanted to try, and thank God, I'm the position to try it out and live the dream (just for a little while at least )

hotspur

wb wrote: »

Without being to philosophical, I can assure you on my dying bed, I won't be saying "God, I wish I'd spent more time in the office".

But are you really gonna say "God I wish I spent more time in front of the computer betting on horses running around a track?"

wb

hotspur wrote: »

But are you really gonna say "God I wish I spent more time in front of the computer betting on horses running around a track?"

Like most people, I'll probably wish I spent more time with my family. But yeah, I love watching racing and get thorough enjoyment from it, so I wouldn't imagine I'll regret the time spent doing it.

I do take the point however, that it takes up a big amount of time, and just like any job, it suits some and not others. Some people would see what I do as hell. If I were actually dying - God knows what my outlook in life would be!

I'm not silly enough to think that this is likely, but a dream would be to make enough money to retire at 50 or so, then (hopefully) enjoy my last 20-30 years or so, spending time enjoying family and life in general.

Getting a bit deep here!

trynabe

Richard Stevens wrote: »

I don't know what the selection criteria is, as its a subsciption service.
The person who runs it sends out the selections as they come up with a staking plan, usually 1 per day.

There are a small number of people invited into the system, which seems to run every few months. I paid £90 to join.
The system has started and is closed for members, until he hits the £5000 and then starts again. He says that it usually takes around 60 days.

I don't know if its going to work, as I said previously I personally find it hard to lay any horse for the win long term, never mind the place.
The person running it obviously has some system and we are running at 7 out of 7 bets so far.

As its a subscription service I can't give out any details, as it can only work on small numbers and I've paid a fee for the info.Large bets do actually cause a distortion in the market.

I'm happy to keep all informed as things progress if anyone is interested and if it proves successful put you in touch with the person running it, if he allows it.

I like the fact it starts off at small stakes betting bank of €100, so we are now trading with the winnings we have made, although it doesn't take much of a losing streak when laying for it all to go pear shaped.

I remain to be convinced..... but who wouldn't be drawn to the prospect of turning £100 into £5000

richard i dont wana be an ass but ive used countless "sytems" and ive realised ,why the hell would you share a system that wins as it would jeopardise your winnings if it was spotted ,, i used a mathamatics system for perming bets on bookies soccer lists and when i went to collect my winnings the manager in the bookies made me wait then quizzed me then said they no longer wanted my business ,, it cant be used online ad bookies refuse it so i dont know ,, id love to invent a system that works ,if i did it would be on betting exchanges , better odds no bookies and laying options ..so keep updating yor progress its interesting
good luck

Richard Stevens

Hi All,

Well the system has been running for a couple of months now and it is pretty much back where it started from. The best run was 19 winning lays and one loss, but the last 2 weeks have seen another 3 losses.

As I said at the beginning I have always found laying horses usually turns out something like this. I was amazed that we received 19 winning selections in a row and thought that the person running the system had a system that worked and maybe he still does, I don't know.

The selections he has been giving are distorting the market. You can see the graph on betfair explode out, when the selection is posted, with people chasing the money. For example, selections are usually around 10/1 in the win market, so should be approx 3/1 in the place market. When the selection is posted it usually shoots up to 5/1 or 6/1 or even 7/1- making it a no value bet. The author thinks this is down to a) people chasing prices and b) the information is leeking out to a bigger audience.
Either way it makes it more difficult for the system to work, with greater hits been taken when a selection comes in.

I am going to stick with it for another while, to see if it can be turned around.

The bookies definately seems to be watching everything even more closely now....I don't know if anyone read the recent info in the papers about the internal memo sent out to Celtic bookmakers and how they are open to being hit from people looks for "arb" opportunities using the exchanges etc... The whole environment has changed for the bookies with the exchanges but to close down or not accept bets from ordinary punters when they hit a winning streak will not win any friends.....still don't know too many poor bookies.
The exchanges do seem to be the way to go to avoid all this nonsense.

I've use a program called racing traders, which links into your betfair account and I find makes using betfair easier, especially if you are trading on events. (there are plenty of other ones out there, but this one has some good video tutorials).
I use it mostly for trading on the football.


I'm with you mate for inventing a new system.... small consistent profits seems to be the way to go. However the bookies do love a system....

Happy punting

Richard.

trynabe wrote: »

richard i dont wana be an ass but ive used countless "sytems" and ive realised ,why the hell would you share a system that wins as it would jeopardise your winnings if it was spotted ,, i used a mathamatics system for perming bets on bookies soccer lists and when i went to collect my winnings the manager in the bookies made me wait then quizzed me then said they no longer wanted my business ,, it cant be used online ad bookies refuse it so i dont know ,, id love to invent a system that works ,if i did it would be on betting exchanges , better odds no bookies and laying options ..so keep updating yor progress its interesting
good luck

trynabe

Ah systems
at the moment ive used a type of system on the darts ,i watched and waited and if the pre match fav goes a set up i bet ,, its rare in small set games yhe underdog comes back ,, twice this week only out of 19 ,, quarters and semis are harder because of similar quality players and more sets ,i went for barney twice in qs and semis and hes through but taylors odds are silly so i let him off ,my system worked so im taking my profits and not betting on the final ,, this type of system works with tennis aswell ,- fav - 1st set - bet - simple ,,each time 5% of bank DO NOT get greedy
good luck all

califano

wrote:

Ah systems
at the moment ive used a type of system on the darts ,i watched and waited and if the pre match fav goes a set up i bet ,, its rare in small set games yhe underdog comes back ,, twice this week only out of 19 ,, quarters and semis are harder because of similar quality players and more sets ,i went for barney twice in qs and semis and hes through but taylors odds are silly so i let him off ,my system worked so im taking my profits and not betting on the final ,, this type of system works with tennis aswell ,- fav - 1st set - bet - simple ,,each time 5% of bank DO NOT get greedy
good luck all

So Van Barneveld starts the game the 1/4f and when he wins the first set his price goes 1/8 so get on at that price like?.

Serena starts 2/7 and her price changes to 1/6 after whe wins the first set so you get on at 1/6?.

Ah yeah.

trynabe

im only giving my opinion fella , i like to bet big to win small it sounds mad but my risk is lower this way ,ive tried other ways and its too volatile for me ,i hate losing streaks and this way cuts down the chances of that ,like i said i use 5% of my bank so even if it goes wrong im safe ,over the tournaments im usually ahead ,otherwise odds compilers wouldnt exist im using their knowledge for my gain ,,,,so relax yourself its just an opinion

Richard Stevens

Hi All,

Do many use trading opportunities on betfair?

There are alot of opportunities in games like snooker, which just happens to be on at the moment.

The betfair market is fairly voilitile on Frame and Match Odds betting, which creates opportunities to trade.


Snooker matches usually fluctuate considerably as it is very rare that a player will win every frame in a snooker match at professional level, especially at the later stages of the competition when players are more evenly matched.

Anyone dabbled in this or interested in it?

trynabe

Richard Stevens wrote: »

Hi All,

Do many use trading opportunities on betfair?

There are alot of opportunities in games like snooker, which just happens to be on at the moment.

The betfair market is fairly voilitile on Frame and Match Odds betting, which creates opportunities to trade.


Snooker matches usually fluctuate considerably as it is very rare that a player will win every frame in a snooker match at professional level, especially at the later stages of the competition when players are more evenly matched.

Anyone dabbled in this or interested in it?

i use it all the time ,, open an account learn how to back and lay ,now you will get stung at times but its great for turning situations around ie if you go to a bookie and hand your money over the counter thats it ,,on betfair if an event is "in play" you can lock in profits or lessen losses regardless of the outcome ,try it and research it ,,dont buy any so called programs there all waffle ,you can get "betangel" for free check it out its excellent for trading on the exchange
theres a million pages and a demo on betfair with all the info
good luck