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Intruder Alarm Questions and Answers

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 niceirishfella


    I have an Aritech and never had any problems.
    If you saved a few extra bob and got it installed profesionally, it'd be good to have a txt dialer to inform you of an activation.
    Handy feature.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭ KoolKid


    foxirl wrote: »
    meep - Not worried about the insurance as I will not be puuting mentioning alarm when I am renewing so then it shouldn't affect it. Only wnat alarm as a deterent.

    Koolkid - Sure I will give them a ring and see what they say. In relation to the Astec can you get a wireless Keypad.
    None of them have a wireless keypad
    But with astec everything is only 2 wires each/ Therefore Keypads zones , front door PA & PiR could be on the same cable
    foxirl wrote: »
    Any idea of price for
    Control Panel
    Keypad
    Internal Bell Box
    External Bell Box
    4 or 5 PIRS
    Cable for Belbox

    About €350- €400

    If you want text dialling etc maybe loot at Astecs Fusion panel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭ foxirl


    koolkid has been a great help to me so far. Thanks for the Astec number

    I called then and they pointed me to a place in limerick that sells their stuff.

    Got quoted 245 ex vat for a 63DV or a 43DV panel with keypad and internal and external sounders so that seems quite good. I know the sensors and PIRs will add more on but still quite a savings

    This seems to be a wired system though.Does anyone know if you can add card to it so it can interact with wireless PIRs or do Astec do a a seperate Wireless system.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭ KoolKid


    You can add the Aritech Quick Bridge & any wireless devices (Up to 12 using Astec 63/49 range) to any Astec Panel.
    The Quick Bridge Can handle up to 16 devices with 8 zone outputs. To use this many with Astec you need the Fusion Panel


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭ Jnealon


    In order to get SR40 which is required to get your license you need to show a record of all the training that you have completed. That training could consist of a one day course at HKC, on site training or in my case 4 years in Kevin Street but there is no benchmark to meet.

    That's where the system fails itself. There should be a proper apprenticeship where new recruits attend class one day a week

    www.realsecurity.ie



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 124 ✭✭ Sid71


    Hi, I self installed the Visonic powermax+ a few months back and it works fine
    I put contacts on the window's and doors and a couple of pir's
    its easy! and the price was great.
    This where I bought it http://www.gx-security.co.uk/-c-42_44_217.html

    Fit it yourself save a packet!


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭ KoolKid


    You get what you pay for...
    This device complies with the essential requirements and provisions of
    Directive 1999/5/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 9
    March 1999 on radio and telecommunications terminal equipment.

    No mention of EN 50131 complience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭ foxirl


    Ok I have been looking reading about alarms for the past 5 days now.

    Astec is recommend by Koolkid and many others
    There is a supplier in Limerick who I plan to visit over the next few days
    From what I can make out the keypad is actually on the alarm panel. Therefore I would have to install pannel in hallway which means I would have to wire in power to it from here and also wire my PIRs back to the panel. This involves drilling through walls etc into other rooms. New house so really dont want to start ruining Plaster. It also means there are going to be visible wires to the PIRS and also to the external Bell box. I would also need to run a phone cable to it.
    I could buy the Aritech Quick Bridge but I've been quoted 200 euro for this. This still does not solve the issue of wiring to the Bell Box and also wiring power to the main panel and the phone cable

    Second Option is the Visonic powermax+ but I am not convinced of the quality of the product. Would definitely mean no wires showing as I could use wireless PIRS, Bellbox and Keypad. Cheaper option also. However there is teh cost of replacing batteries every 2 years.

    Third Option was the Europlex Signet but unfortunately I can get a quote on it as the supplier says tehy only supply to qualified electricians. Probobally would be very dear anyway.

    Fourth Option would be to go with an Aritech CS250 which can come with wireless conectivity and install it in cupboard under stairs. I could then use wireless PIRs (batteries last 5 years I'm told) and I would only need to run a short cable to a keypad on the wall and another one to the bell box. It would at least get rid of the Power Cable wires. Once again I can get a quote on this either.

    Opinions appreciated


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭ KoolKid


    :mad:
    foxirl wrote: »
    From what I can make out the keypad is actually on the alarm panel. Therefore I would have to install pannel in hallway which means I would have to wire in power to it from here and also wire my PIRs back to the panel. This involves drilling through walls etc into other rooms. New house so really dont want to start ruining Plaster. It also means there are going to be visible wires to the PIRS and also to the external Bell box. I would also need to run a phone cable to it.
    Woahhhhhhh there.. Relax. The keypad is not on the panel .
    The panel can go discreetly under the stairs or in utility, garage etc.
    The keypad,zone, front door,Panic & PiR could all run from the Keypad cable
    foxirl wrote: »
    I could buy the Aritech Quick Bridge but I've been quoted 200 euro for this. This still does not solve the issue of wiring to the Bell Box and also wiring power to the main panel and the phone cable
    Even on a wireless system these need to be wired to the main control panel
    foxirl wrote: »
    Second Option is the Visonic powermax+ but I am not convinced of the quality of the product. Would definitely mean no wires showing as I could use wireless PIRS, Bellbox and Keypad. Cheaper option also. However there is teh cost of replacing batteries every 2 years.
    I would not recommend this system
    foxirl wrote: »
    Third Option was the Europlex Signet but unfortunately I can get a quote on it as the supplier says tehy only supply to qualified electricians.
    Would be around €300 for panel keypad bell box & wireless reciever
    devices roughly €50 each
    foxirl wrote: »
    Fourth Option would be to go with an Aritech CS250 which can come with wireless conectivity and install it in cupboard under stairs. I could then use wireless PIRs (batteries last 5 years I'm told) and I would only need to run a short cable to a keypad on the wall and another one to the bell box. It would at least get rid of the Power Cable wires. Once again I can get a quote on this either.
    Roughly the same as the signet. If you add about €200 you can get the Signet 300. This has a lan connection to you broadband router & gives you remote access from any web browser.


  • Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭ foxirl


    koolkid wrote: »
    :mad:
    The keypad,zone, front door,Panic & PiR could all run from the Keypad cable

    But if i have a PIR in living room, kitchen, hall and landing that might be 1 wire but it goes all over the house and a lot of holes to drill through walls.

    Anyway you have me convinced. I just ordered the Astec 49 DV system with 4 PIRS and a door contact, internal and external bell and hope to pick it up in Limerick tomorrow. Total Cost was a little over 400 euro.

    Will install it over the weekend. Will put up two PIRS and Door Contact to start with so shouldn't need to drill. ANd can get the other PIRS up after xmas.

    Koolkid - you have been a great help over the past few days. Thanks.
    I reckon I will save at least 600 euro so that will be spent over christmas.
    Hopefully all will go well with the install.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 124 ✭✭ Sid71


    Koolkid: just to get back to the Visonic powermax+
    This is taken from the Visonic website
    "PowerMax+™ meets the standards of most countries around the world.
    Including: (CE/RTTE), EN300 220-1&3, EN 301 489-1&3, EN60950, EN50131-1
    EN-50130-4, EN 50130-5, BS-6799 Class VI and DD-243:2002.
    SIA false alarm prevention recommendation
    UL 985, UL 1023, UL1635, FCC part 15 and part 68, TBR-21"
    Anyway's for me it does what it sez on the tin!


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭ KoolKid


    They seem to be using a very smart play with text there.
    1) It doesnt mention out standard which is technically IS EN 50131-1
    2) It Doesn't mention grade 1,2,3, or 4 Which would be required for EN
    3) It doesn't mention revision date for EN
    4) It doesnt quote all of that & above in the specifications (another EN requirement)
    So technically it doesn't do what it sez on the tin.
    If it does the job for you that good,and I hope it gives you many trouble free years of service, but my take on this & many of the other diy systems like argos & B&Q etc is you get what you pay for. Remember the saying "Buyer Beware"


  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭ bauderline


    koolkid,

    I installed a Nexus 8 in my current house and was thinking of putting in the same unit in my new house. It has worked well and without fault, but would the Astec be a better unit to install this time round ?

    TIA !

    P.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭ KoolKid


    The Astec Fusion IMO is one of the best for features & price at the moment.
    Is there anything in particular you are looking for?
    A nice feature of the SigNet 300 is a web browser , but it comes at a price (Around €300-€400 just for the panel)


  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭ bauderline


    koolkid,

    thanks for heads up on the Signet unit, that looks like my man !!

    Can you drop me a pm indicating suppliers or can I but this unit direct ?

    many thanks. P.


  • Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭ foxirl


    You can find their distributors on http://www.europlex-signet.com/partners.php

    However I tried to buy one of these from their distrubtors in Galway and they wouldn't sell one to me as i wasn't a qualified electrician ;-(

    Got an Astec in the end from a crowd in Limerick


  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭ bauderline


    I was under the impression it is not illegal for you to install your own alarm, you should lodge a complaint with europlex regarding their reseller.

    P.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭ KoolKid


    foxirl wrote: »
    You can find their distributors on http://www.europlex-signet.com/partners.php

    However I tried to buy one of these from their distrubtors in Galway and they wouldn't sell one to me as i wasn't a qualified electrician ;-(
    How do they know whose qualified or not??
    Do they ask every customer for their certs
    bauderline wrote: »
    I was under the impression it is not illegal for you to install your own alarm, you should lodge a complaint with europlex regarding their reseller.

    P.
    You are correct it is not illegal


  • Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭ foxirl


    They asked me was I an electrician and I said no. So they told me they only sold to electricians. i lied and told them that my brother was one but then they asked me for his cert number and address. So I told the truth and they said as they could not sell to general public as their main customers for the alarms was electricians and alarm installers and that if they sold to general public it would p*ss off their main customers.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭ KoolKid


    foxirl wrote: »
    They asked me was I an electrician and I said no. So they told me they only sold to electricians. i lied and told them that my brother was one but then they asked me for his cert number and address. So I told the truth and they said as they could not sell to general public as their main customers for the alarms was electricians and alarm installers and that if they sold to general public it would p*ss off their main customers.

    Your reply should have been it is illegal for electricians to install alarms (unless they are working for a PSA licenced installer of course),yet you are happy to supply them, But it is not illegal for you to & yet they refuse you,, Why?
    I would imagine in the current ecomomic climate their attitude will change very quickly.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭✭ The Security ma


    PSA Licenced installer me arse!

    The PSA is a bigger rip-off than FAS!

    www.injusticeireland.freehosting.net


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭ KoolKid


    PSA Licenced installer me arse!

    The PSA is a bigger rip-off than FAS!

    Maybe so, but unfortunatly its the law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ KevinC


    Hi, I've recently replaced two windows which had alarm sensors on them. The sensors got removed with the windows. Stupid I know. I did unscrew all the wires however. They in a single big living/dining room and they consist of a square bay window and a regular window with a side opening.

    1) Is it feasible that I can buy and fit new sensors myself or am I better off getting an alarm company in to do it? I bought the house already the the alarm installed. The room already has a motion detector and since the windows are large and to the front I doubt anyone would break in through them. Will I bother replacing them at all?

    2) One of the new windows (the square bay) doesn't have the same size frame where the sensors where attached. To be more exact; the middle upper frame is really really close to the ceiling. I'll have to move the sensor to the corner or attach it on the ceiling. I don't know how they work so which placement would be better? Or will I just not bother?

    3) At the same time the I want to bury the wires to the sensors. They go from the ceiling to the sensors. This is needed in more windows other then the two missing sensors. Will this damage/unsettle the existing sensors?

    4) Someone told me that in Lidl they are selling a special tool to cut trenches into walls which would allow me to bury the wires in. From their website I see no such tool. What is this called and do I need one?

    The house is due to be painted in a few weeks so I have this opportunity to mess with the walls now.

    If you think an alarm company is needed then please feel free to recommend one as I get the feeling that their are plenty of cowboys in that business.

    Thanks.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,930 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner


    KevinC wrote: »
    1) Is it feasible that I can buy and fit new sensors myself or am I better off getting an alarm company in to do it? I bought the house already the the alarm installed. The room already has a motion detector and since the windows are large and to the front I doubt anyone would break in through them. Will I bother replacing them at all?

    2) One of the new windows (the square bay) doesn't have the same size frame where the sensors where attached. To be more exact; the middle upper frame is really really close to the ceiling. I'll have to move the sensor to the corner or attach it on the ceiling. I don't know how they work so which placement would be better? Or will I just not bother?

    3) At the same time the I want to bury the wires to the sensors. They go from the ceiling to the sensors. This is needed in more windows other then the two missing sensors. Will this damage/unsettle the existing sensors?

    4) Someone told me that in Lidl they are selling a special tool to cut trenches into walls which would allow me to bury the wires in. From their website I see no such tool. What is this called and do I need one?

    .

    First thing, IMO getting someone in to twig your alarm would be best, even if you copped the wiring there may be some work required at the panel.

    The machine Lidl have at the moment is a chasing machine, you do not need one of these if you are only hiding alarm cables, after using one you will require a plasterer.

    However they will work and you could use one and house the cables in plastic conduit. Another point is that a lot of alarm cables run from the ceiling down to windows, chasing machines work best on open walls and the wont go tight to a ceiling as the machine is too big to give you the clearance.

    A chasing machine, with or without a hoover will create lots of dust, it will get everywhere. They use two angle grinder blades set approx 20mm apart, however the gap created by a wide single angle grinder blade is enough to hide an alarm cable in, although doing so without damaging the cable requires some skill.

    You could test scoring the wall with an industrial knife, get right into the plaster, you may have enough play in the plaster to cut a line down to the window that will take the cable and can be patched by a painter.

    There is another method called chain drilling, where you score the wall as detailed above and chain drill a series of holes using a 6mm Masonry drill bit (SDS is best) you can then knock these holes into a continuous strip with a hammer and tool of your choice. This can take a long time, but is creates the least amount of dirt and is easy to patch up afterwords.

    Finally I'm sure you are not dealing with partition / dry lined walls, as I'm sure you know that they are easy to fish cables behind with only minimal plaster and work damage.

    the main point to make here is, do not use a chasing machine in a home, they are for building sites IMHO, but they are currently in stock in lidl stores, and you can rent better ones complete with a hover from a tool hire store, it would be a better unit, but still messy. Also if most of the chasing is from the ceiling to the top of a window the machine will be more or less useless (unless you have very high ceilings)

    Be very careful to look for and AVOID electrical cables and water pipes in walls when chasing and drilling.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,113 fishdog


    I would agree with everything that stoner has said.
    The room already has a motion detector and since the windows are large and to the front I doubt anyone would break in through them.
    The problem with motion detectos is that they can only be triggered when it is too late i.e. the intruder is already in your house. The sensors should activate before anyone gains entry.
    I did unscrew all the wires however.
    To me it sounds like the cables are still at the windows. This sounds like at worst the cables may ave to be extended/moved to different positions on the replacement windows.
    I'll have to move the sensor to the corner or attach it on the ceiling.
    On the ceiling would not work.

    I think the best thing to do is get the guy who installed the alarm originally to make the changes. I dont think it will be a big deal, expensive or messy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ KevinC


    thanks stoner and fishdog.

    I've tried to contract the company who installed it but they wont return my calls. Maybe gone out of business....I'll give a day or so before I ring someone else.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭ KoolKid


    Where are you from Kevin?
    PM if you want me to get someone to look at this for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,736 ✭✭✭✭ astrofool


    House was built in the early 90's, Dublin, and we have an Itec Horizon wired alarm. Upstairs and downstairs is completely wired and has sensors.

    I'm looking to get a new alarm, something monitored, would like an external bell box, and for a GSM dialler to be used if the main phone line goes down.

    On talking to Eircom Phonewatch, they pushed going for a completely wireless system, downstairs only points, dummy external box. Looking for other opinions on what the best systems are :) (there seem to be a few people on here who know their stuff). Can the existing wires be re-used? (phonewatch's first response was that they would need to be replaced if a wired system was used).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭ Jnealon


    Ring 3 local companies and get them to come around and quote you. Phonewatch don't do retro fits and only want to sell you a vew system.
    Your existing wiring may be fine and a full survey will tell you that

    www.realsecurity.ie



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭ KoolKid


    +1 good advice
    Remember any company set up monitoring,not just Eircom.
    If cables are limited the Astec system would give you more options to add extra equipment.


This discussion has been closed.
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