Intruder Alarm Questions and Answers

2011

Koolkid I think you misread my post.
I was agreeing with your position 100%.

KoolKid

2011 wrote: »

Koolkid I think you misread my post.
I was agreeing with your position 100%.

No I didn't. I wasn't arguing with you:D ,I was posting in reply to bibibobo .

Stoner

I have to agree with the OP in some regards, a customer should in my opinion be able to request that their code is given to another licensed security company, so that they can go and use any company they want to service or modify it afterwords. Is this the case? I know that I have been stonewalled when I made similar requests on behalf of customers in the past after they tried and failed, I was told that the codes were universal and not dedicated to a customer so giving another company access to the codes would impact on other customers installations. It's a fair point I guess, but why use the same codes all the time?

The simple fact is that your average Joe is restricted by companies holding onto this information as it makes the job more difficult for another company to come in and work on a system without this code, there is more work involved for the other company, if they had the code they could make some simple changes to allow for say something like a new patio door.

I'm not suggesting that unlicensed people work on alarms, I'm saying that a company holding information that in some way financially restricts a customer so as to create a situation where that same company has some financial advantage over other licensed installers.

Regardless of what way you look at it having the engineering code is an advantage..

I also understand that having the same engineering code is handy for many installers, so handing over a code to a system would open up other systems to other companies. However using a different engineering code and storing the results would solve this, it just takes a little more planning, I know that many operate a customer unique code system, but many don't.

This information should be handed over to another security company at the customer request IMHO. This way the customer can't mess with the system, but they can use any security company they want.

Having said that there is nothing stopping an average Joe from doing a factory reset on the whole alarm, but as noted above with no cert the alarm will not satisfy insurance company terms and conditions.

2011

I have to agree with the OP in some regards, a customer should in my opinion be able to request that their code is given to another licensed security company, so that they can go and use any company they want to service or modify it afterwords

An other company can simply factory reset the panel, problem solved.

if they had the code they could make some simple changes to allow for say something like a new patio door.

In general it is possible to make a modification such as this without having the engineer code anyway.

Regardless of what way you look at it having the engineering code is an advantage..

Only a small advantage. A factory reset should only take a few minutes.

This information should be handed over to another security company at the customer request IMHO

+ 1

Tim M-U

have you considered getting a license to install an alarm. I think this possible. And on another fourm, they said its easy and quick to get one. I dont want to garentee anything though.

Tim M-U

gsxr1 wrote: »

My home is wired with 4 core alarm wire to all the windows and doors.

I have a sounder and strobe already wired in by the over eager eletriction on the site 2 years ago.

After reading about it. I am going to attempt my own hardwire instalation.



All I need it is:

The Control unit.
Keypad,
8 reed switches.
2 PIR sensors.

battery for control unit


My question at this time is:

With a four cour wire as opposed to a 6core wire. Am I restricted to what type of control unit?

I was looking at this system . I have seen them as cheap as £35 .
http://www.sdfirealarms.co.uk/shop/adeaccentaminigen4intruderpanelwithlcdkeypad-p-367.html

I think I can do the whole lot for under 100euro. Electrician quoted 750.

so it worth a go on my own.

Have a look at meteor electrictal. (http://www.meteorelectrical.com/) .

The cost of an alarm is €154.26 and comes with the following:

· 1 x ST800L (8 zone) panel with separate keypad
· 4 x 1S215T (passive infra red sensors)
· 1 x AG3/WS or AG6MB bell unit (live complete bell units)
· 1 x AG3/WB-DIJM or AG6/WS-DUM (dummy sounder)
· 1 x GATI22A (12V Gallery)
· 4 x EMPS8S/W (door surface contacts)
· 1 x Spur/Pattress (complete spur/pattress)
· 1 x lOOm six core cable (cable for security package)
· 1x easy to use instructions

-

Now remember: contacts on detect things opening, and I think its not worth using them on windows and use the pirs (if possible).

KoolKid

Lots of paperwork & checks involved (as well as cheques)
Its hard work on a one man operation

KoolKid

Tim M-U wrote: »

Now remember: contacts on detect things opening, and I think its not worth using them on windows and use the pirs (if possible).

PiRs only detect someone after they have gained entry. Why would you recommend that?

Phoenix3

Caan somebody oblige by telling me the ratings for replacement battery for the Aritech 450.I don't want to open the panel until I am installing the new one.

Many thanks.

fred funk }{

Get a 7Amp 12VDC from any electrical wholesalers. When you open the panel the alarm will sound, enter your code to turn off.

Pete67

If you have the engineer code, enter it and put the panel in maintenance mode. Then you can open the panel without the tamper switch triggering the alarm. Change the battery, close up the panel, and then exit engineer mode on the keypad.

You should also change the battery in the external bell.

KoolKid

There is no changeable battery in the external bell..

c.a.r.l

Hi All,
Is there a signal output of approx 6 or 12 volts when the alarm is triggered?
I want to pull in a contactor which will switch on a few lights in the event of same.

fred funk }{

The bell outputs will switch 12V- when activated and take your positive from the Aux power. Or if you had the engineer code you code programme a dedicated output for your contactor.

c.a.r.l

Hi Fred Funk,
Thanks for that. I presume it will be dc from the panel to the bell?
Thanks again.
Carl

2011

Thanks for that. I presume it will be dc from the panel to the bell?

Yes. So make sure the coil of your relay is rated for 12V d.c.

c.a.r.l

Thanks,
Yes will do. I need all the zones for windows and doors so this is a great option to have.
Thanks a million.
Carl

ellade3

Hi all, i just joined today so hope i do this right, sorry in advance if not.
Hope someone will be a ble to help or just reassure me. Ok so, I live in a rented house for the last 2 years which has a securewatch hkc alarm. When we moved in 1st i got the code from the landlord but never got round to using it properly but thought i knew the code. Today i got it into my head that its silly to have an alarm and not use it so decided to try set it, yes as you've guessed i couldnt remember the code so after i tried the 3rd code the red light on the panel came on and its now flashing outside but not making any noise. My landlord is on honeymoon so cant get the code from him. Is there any way to fix this in the meantime or at least since its not ringing now is it likely to before i can get the code?
thanks for any help

altor

ellade3 wrote: »

Is there any way to fix this in the meantime or at least since its not ringing now is it likely to before i can get the code?
thanks for any help

you just need to put the code in when you get the code off the landlord. this will reset the red light flashing on the keypad and the flashing light outside, you could default the panel and set up a new code if he did not know it but try getting the code first.. hope this helps :-)

KoolKid

The strobe is flashing outside but no internal siren going off?
You need to get this system serviced anyway by the sounds of it.
At that time you could get it defaulted & get new codes set up.

ellade3

Yeah think i might do that then i could get them to show me how to use it! Have you any idea how much that would cost?
Thanks

KoolKid

Anywhere between €70-€100
I'll PM you my number if your in or near Dublin give me a call.

Tim M-U

ellade3 wrote: »

Hi all, i just joined today so hope i do this right, sorry in advance if not.
Hope someone will be a ble to help or just reassure me. Ok so, I live in a rented house for the last 2 years which has a securewatch hkc alarm. When we moved in 1st i got the code from the landlord but never got round to using it properly but thought i knew the code. Today i got it into my head that its silly to have an alarm and not use it so decided to try set it, yes as you've guessed i couldnt remember the code so after i tried the 3rd code the red light on the panel came on and its now flashing outside but not making any noise. My landlord is on honeymoon so cant get the code from him. Is there any way to fix this in the meantime or at least since its not ringing now is it likely to before i can get the code?
thanks for any help

Ok, so you say your alarm outside is flashing, usually on any alarm flashes anyway (this is called 'strobe'). If it is flashing in a different way that means that its been set off. You may have entered the wrong code and this may have set it off or there may be a fault with the alarm. What company installed it? this is usually printed on the outside sounder and control panel and keypad, call the number printed on it and they might be able to fix it for you. Or you can wait till your landlord comes back from his/her honeymoon.

Tim M-U

koolkid wrote: »

Speaking for myself, I would not be willing to certfiy a job to EN if the user has engineer access. You are risking voiding your insurance here.

If on the panel it says: complys with the EN50131 standard, you may be intitiled to a discount. When quoting online insurance at bestquote.ie for exmaple, click: 'IS199 or EN50131 standard' or simalar. I checked for me, and it saves me about €50 if I say I have one. If its monitored but self installed, you will get the same discount as if a licensed installer installed it. Hope this helps.

BTW: the HKC keypad says it meets the EN50131 standard.

Tim M-U

Hi, I have my house prewired for an alarm, an 8zone will do!. its wired for 5 motions sensors and 1 door sensor. Im going to get the motions sensors and door contacts from meteor electrical online. So how much would the following cost:

1 internal siren
1 external siren
1 keypad (comes with panel)
the cheapest panel, I think its the 8 zone one,

and how much does a text dialler cost.

BTW: Im going to install it in my own home and it will save me a few bob.

altor

Tim M-U wrote: »

If on the panel it says: complys with the EN50131 standard, you may be intitiled to a discount. When quoting online insurance at bestquote.ie for exmaple, click: 'IS199 or EN50131 standard' or simalar. I checked for me, and it saves me about €50 if I say I have one. If its monitored but self installed, you will get the same discount as if a licensed installer installed it. Hope this helps.

BTW: the HKC keypad says it meets the EN50131 standard.

the panel and components comply with en50131 standard. all certified installers must be certified to install alarms and only install components that comply with this standard. so if you install an alarm in your house using these components the alarm is not certified. a certified installer will also give you a cert to say it has being installed by a certified installer, one copy for you and one for your insurance. after having your alarm in for a year your cert will also expire unless you have a maintenance contract on your alarm and if you tell your insurance company it is then you are wrong and wont get paid out if you claim.
hope this helps..

KoolKid

Tim M-U wrote: »

If on the panel it says: complys with the EN50131 standard, you may be intitiled to a discount. When quoting online insurance at bestquote.ie for exmaple, click: 'IS199 or EN50131 standard' or simalar. I checked for me, and it saves me about €50 if I say I have one. If its monitored but self installed, you will get the same discount as if a licensed installer installed it. Hope this helps.

BTW: the HKC keypad says it meets the EN50131 standard.

A self installed alarm cannot comply to EN50131. The fact that you mention IS199 shows your lack of understanding of the industry.
Also you need to realise that if you are claiming a discount by falsly claiming your system comforms to EN50131 then your insurance will be void in the event of a claim.
Hardly worth the risk to save €50

fred funk }{

altor wrote: »

the panel and components comply with en50131 standard. all certified installers must be certified to install alarms and only install components that comply with this standard. so if you install an alarm in your house using these components the alarm is not certified. a certified installer will also give you a cert to say it has being installed by a certified installer, one copy for you and one for your insurance. after having your alarm in for a year your cert will also expire unless you have a maintenance contract on your alarm and if you tell your insurance company it is then you are wrong and wont get paid out if you claim.
hope this helps..

Best post on alarms in this thread,

Tim M-U

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Best post on alarms in this thread,

On bestquote.ie is ask's you about a burglar alarm, you have a few options, some are:

working alarm, protecting all doors and accesable windows
no alarms installed.
NSAI installer, EN50131 standard
NSAI installer, EN50131 standard monitored
IS199 or EN50131 standard / connected to cms
IS199 or EN50131 standard

do you understand me now. it doesn't say nsai cert installer in the one underlined. the one underlined saves just over €50.

KoolKid

It is you who are not understanding.
Because of PSA licencing there is only Certified EN50131 installations.
NSAI Installer is also incorrect. An alarm system can be certified by a number of certification bodies.
As has alsready been explained to you. Certification is only valid for a year.
For your system to maintain the standard it must be maintained & serviced every year.
Anyway if you are content to save €50 & risk your insurance being void. Go ahead, personally I think its way too big a risk for that little a saving.

altor

Tim M-U wrote: »

On bestquote.ie is ask's you about a burglar alarm, you have a few options, some are:

working alarm, protecting all doors and accesable windows
no alarms installed.
NSAI installer, EN50131 standard
NSAI installer, EN50131 standard monitored
IS199 or EN50131 standard / connected to cms
IS199 or EN50131 standard

do you understand me now. it doesn't say nsai cert installer in the one underlined. the one underlined saves just over €50.

That is because some people have alarms installed in there home before the introduction of the EN50131 standard. I.S EN50131 replaces I.S. 199:1987 which was withdrawn on March 12 2004. as koolkid also pointed out NSAI installer is also wrong so maybe the best thing you can do is get on to bestquote.ie and ask them about it, they are the ones misguiding you..
hope this helps..

ellade3

Hi everyone, just wanted to say thanks for all your help with my alarm. Got the code from landlord and he is also getting the person that installed it down to show me how to use it properly so it probably all worked out for the best

altor

thats good,
any other problems just let us know..

Tim M-U

ellade3 wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to say thanks for all your help with my alarm. Got the code from landlord and he is also getting the person that installed it down to show me how to use it properly so it probably all worked out for the best

gr8. sorry for bein a assh*ld a few posts back... But as Atlor said, any other problems, we will help!!!

screwlox

Tim M-U wrote: »

Hi, I have my house prewired for an alarm, an 8zone will do!. its wired for 5 motions sensors and 1 door sensor. Im going to get the motions sensors and door contacts from meteor electrical online.

........I hope you managed to get the gear then, 'cos meteor went to the wall last week!!:eek:
www.jobsnews.ie/2009/06/03/meteor-electrical/

Their sales website is still there I notice.... handy income for the liquidator:mad:

s10

found what i was looking for on securitywarehouse.co.uk
thanks to whoever post that.

LorcoJ

Folk's,
Apologies if Im posting the wrong way but only new to this and couldnt find exactly how to start a new question or thread?
If anyone out there could help me I would be most grateful. I have an Aritech house alarm(not sure what model as cover is broken off and have no manaul) whihc was installed 12 years ago. Has never given me any trouble other than having to replace set of contacts. About 2 weeks ago the alarm went off for no reason an on the small panel it had "Open Zone UpStairs" and was a few hours before alarm would reset. There was no issue with the windows or whatnot upstairs. Had no probs after that except,yesterday when alarm was set and it went off again for same thing,the only thing in common was that its went off at same time as upstairs lights were switched on and again the same error "upstairs zone open",I do know that the alarm is wired to the upstairs lighting circuit so not sure if something to do with the lights upstairs setting it off. Again it is operating fine now and this prob is very intermittent. Anybody got any ideas on what this might be or what I could check to see what the problem might be?
Thanks,
LJ

KoolKid

Is your alarm set when it activates after switching the light?
If so there is a faulty sensor or contact on that zone.

LorcoJ

Yes thats correct koolkid,the alarm has been set when this happened. Once when we were in house at night and alarm was armed but not sure if anyone hit a lightswitch this particular time and other time just after we came in and had armed on partguard then someone turned on the lightswitch.
Thanks for getting back to me by the way
Cheers:)

KoolKid

You need to get a full service on that system and check all zones. There is definitly at least one faulty device, but with a system 12 years old dont be surprised if there are more.
PM me if your need it looked at.

LorcoJ

Thanks pal,appreciate the advice.

robbie1876

Hi, I'm shopping for an alarm at the moment. One thing that is important to us is the way the text notifications work. We want it to text one of us when the alarm goes off as normal, but to text somebody else when the panic button is pressed.

The installers we've talked to so far can't give us definitive answers on this. I'm hoping somebody here can recommend a panel and dialler that can do the job.

Also, we can't get a definitive answer on a pet problem - we've two dogs who are restricted to the kitchen and garden, via a dog flap in a door with a large glass panel. What's the best way to go with sensors for here? Contact and vibration sensors on the door, set to a low sensitivity? Somebody mentioned a 'pet PIR' that only detects above a certain height - is there such a thing?

Many thanks,

Robbie

KoolKid

Hi Robbie exactly what you want by text can't be done exactly.
What you can do with the SigNet is have one number for an alarm & another number for confirmed alarms.
A confirmed alarm is an activation on 2 different zones or a panic alarm.
However It would only send normal alarms to number 1 & confirmed alarms (including PA) to both.
Its an interesting type of application. I will look into it more & put in a request for future software updates.
Pet sensors are available & can work quite effectivly with a little bit of trial & error.
They basically work by masking a certin height above the ground.
If you have a pet that climbs up on tables & chairs the look in narrow beam curtain PiRs

robbie1876

Cheers, thanks for the reply koolkid. The SigNet looks pretty snazzy alright, and the way you describe the texts working would work for us in our situation fine.

One further question - I'm beginning to understand that there are GSM texters and there are landline based texters, but have heard they need an Eircom line. Just need clarification on this, cos we are with another provider for landline. Thanks again.

EDIT: One other thing - how do HKC rate as yer basic wired alarm system?

KoolKid

GSM diallers are fine but they are expensive .
The only providor I have had a problem with regards texting is Smart Telecom.
If you can text from a land line & CLI is turned on it should be fine.
HKC is a good system if you want a basic alarm. Emphises on basic.
Remember that technology is over 10 years old at this stage,

robbie1876

koolkid wrote: »

The only providor I have had a problem with regards texting is Smart Telecom.

We are with Smart Not to worry, voice dialler is looking like the option for us

koolkid wrote: »

Remember that technology is over 10 years old at this stage

Ok, didn't realise that. Although it probably means that the technology is well proven and very reliable. Koolkid, if you were speccing a basic alarm with voice dialler (forget text for now) in a pre-wired house, what brands would you be checking out?

Many thanks again.

EvilMonkey

koolkid wrote: »

GSM diallers are fine but they are expensive .
The only providor I have had a problem with regards texting is Smart Telecom.
If you can text from a land line & CLI is turned on it should be fine.
HKC is a good system if you want a basic alarm. Emphises on basic.
Remember that technology is over 10 years old at this stage,

How is HKC 10 years old technology it is updated every few years?

KoolKid

robbie1876 wrote: »

We are with Smart Not to worry, voice dialler is looking like the option for us


if you were speccing a basic alarm with voice dialler (forget text for now) in a pre-wired house, what brands would you be checking out?

For Voice Dialler there is nothing new on the Market really.
Aritech CS250 or Astec 63 DV
Both are a bit dated now also

EvilMonkey wrote: »

How is HKC 10 years old technology it is updated every few years?

What part of the hardware is updated every few yeas???

That system & its incorporated technology is more than 10 years old.

EvilMonkey

koolkid wrote: »

What part of the hardware is updated every few yeas???

That system & its incorporated technology is more than 10 years old.

I didn't say the Hardware was updated every few years.
From what i can remember the number of zones on the panel was increased, when they brought out the new text dialler/digi the panel HW would have changed.
The software is updated fairly regularly, newer standards would also required software changes.

Fair enough its probably still based on the original design but i dont see why thats a problem?

What do they need to add to it to update it? Has the technology in sensors, contacts, PIRs etc... charged much in the last 10 years? The only thing its missing at the minute is IP connectivity, maybe some home automation stuff but most people aren't interested in that right now.(granted its on the rise)

Do you think if they bring out a new panel it will be a complete redesign?

KoolKid

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I didn't say the Hardware was updated every few years.
From what i can remember the number of zones on the panel was increased, when they brought out the new text dialler/digi the panel HW would have changed.

The zone numbers changed but the technology is the same
The dialler is a little newer but thats like getting a nice new surround sound & connecting it to your old TV

EvilMonkey wrote: »

The software is updated fairly regularly, newer standards would also required software changes.

The software changes are very minor,after all you couldn't run Vista on a 10 year old computer.

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Fair enough its probably still based on the original design but i dont see why thats a problem?

Theres no problem. It still works but its about moving with the times & whats available.
You wouldn't use dial up if you can have 6meg broadband.
And I doubt your still using a phone like this

EvilMonkey wrote: »

What do they need to add to it to update it? Has the technology in sensors, contacts, PIRs etc... charged much in the last 10 years? The only thing its missing at the minute is IP connectivity, maybe some home automation stuff but most people aren't interested in that right now.(granted its on the rise)

Sensor tecnology has improved. Wireless technology has drastically improved and the processing technology has improved.
We have IP connectivity with the Signet 200p & 300

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Do you think if they bring out a new panel it will be a complete redesign?

It will be a bit of a con calling it a new panel if they dont.