Garda Checkpoint query

angelfire9

HI, I'm just wondering what the general training is given to Gardai regarding operation of checkpoints cos i just had a very strange experience :eek:

I was on my way home a short time ago and came across a checkpoint which appeared to be for tax and insurance - Fine!

My Car is taxed & insured to Jan 09, NCT to May 2010 and is in good nick & clean as a rule

So i meandered up to the checkpoint and rolled down the window and said "well how's things" to the two girls operating the checkpoint on my side of the road, so one of them checked the tax/insurance/nct disks & was ready to wave me on when the second girl decided that i wasn't going anywhere!


So anyway, first she asked for my driving licence, which i gave her, then she asked me my name, address & date of birth, she wanted to know why the address on my driving licence was different from the address i gave her (its because the licence address is my parents where i was living when i did the driving test & I only got my new house in Dec 06)

She then told me to pull the car over, switch off the ignition & step out of the car!

I was a wee bit surprised but said absolutely nothing & did what i was told (as you do)
I think she was a wee bit surprised to find someone 6ft getting out of a Fiesta but thats beside the point!

Then she got on her radio & asked the control room to do a check on my car 04CE...., whoever was on the control room came back with my name, address, said the car was taxed to 01/09, "all clear"

Then the fun started.. i had to laugh.. obviously whoever was in the control room knew me cos the next thing i heard on the radio was "if it's who i think it is driving she's tall & lanky & married to XXXXX stationed out in xxxxx!

Now, don't get me wrong, it was a bit weird being pulled over etc but i didn't have a problem with it, as far as i was concerned the Garda was just doing her job (maybe her attitude could have been a bit better but still...)

So anyway, as soon as she realised i was married to a cop the attitude disappeared and the apologies came flying, I actually knew one of the lads on the other side of the road and he came over to say hi as i was walking back to the car, i asked the Garda who i had been dealing with why "out of curiousity" she had gone to so much trouble to verify my identity to be told "people who are chirpy at checkpoints generally have something to hide"

So my question is this... is this what they are teaching in templemore these days????

Random

I don't agree with favorable treatment towards members of the service.

From your story though it would seem she thought you were suspicious for one reason or another and upon learning you were well known by fellow Guards for all the right reasons her suspicions were satisfied / cleared and off you went on your way.

All sounds grand to me.

CLADA

angelfire9 wrote: »

So my question is this... is this what they are teaching in templemore these days????

No, she's female and behaving that way comes natural, she doesn't need to be taught.:D

You're tall and obviously extremely attractive hence you're married to one of us.

Therein lies your answer, she was going to take this good looking bird in the fiesta down a peg or two, natural female behaviour.

angelfire9

random wrote: »

I don't agree with favorable treatment towards members of the service.

For the record, neither did I, I didn't ask for it and i wasn't the one who told her who i was!

random wrote: »

From your story though it would seem she thought you were suspicious for one reason

The reason she thought i was suspicious is because i was "chirpy" at the checkpoint, this is what i have a problem with, is everyone approaching a checkpoint supposed to be scared and subdued???

CLADA wrote: »

No, she's female and behaving that way comes natural, she doesn't need to be taught.:D

I'm female, and i wouldn't behave that way!

CLADA wrote: »

You're tall and obviously extremely attractive hence you're married to one of us.

Gee thanks :pac:

CLADA wrote: »

Therein lies your answer, she was going to take this good looking bird in the fiesta down a peg or two, natural female behaviour.

Maybe your right, and that's what it was, but if that's the case she seriously needs to cop on (no pun intended)
Being married to a cop I'm not intimidated by Gardai and maybe she sensed that too, but to be honest, imho if she had treated your average civilian the way she treated me i don't think they'd be very happy and i really do think that AGS has enough problems with the public perception of them without going out of their way to antagonise people!

mikemac

CLADA wrote: »

Therein lies your answer, she was going to take this good looking bird in the fiesta down a peg or two, natural female behaviour.

lol, probably the reason alright

angelfire9 wrote: »

The reason she thought i was suspicious is because i was "chirpy" at the checkpoint, this is what i have a problem with, is everyone approaching a checkpoint supposed to be scared and subdued???

Kinda makes sense if you think about. And yes, most people (me anyway) would be serious and subdued coming to a checkpoint. I wouldn't have said "well how's things" anyway, let the garda do the talking and say as little as possible.

You are obviously married a garda. Anyway who spends time in Tipperary always uses "well" as a greeting so you must have picked that up. :cool:

TheNog

Her attitude was bad and suspicions were dubious to say the least. Also she second guessed her colleague and made look like a fool without any firm reasoning behind it. I would never do that to another member

yayamark

CLADA wrote: »

You're tall and obviously extremely attractive hence you're married to one of us.

I'd say your a right hit with the ladies:p

micmclo wrote: »

lol, probably the reason alright




You are obviously married a garda. Anyway who spends time in Tipperary always uses "well" as a greeting so you must have picked that up. :cool:

+ a million. Everyone in tipp goes "well?"

Even when i'm goin to talk to a tipp person i start the conversation i go "well?"
I hate it.

To the Op she obivously had a bee in her bonnet about something.
Maybe she recognised the car from somewhere and wanted to see where she knew it from.

Maybe she fancies your husband and want to see what the "other half" was like, when she saw you were tall and stunning she limbed back into her box

topper75

got similar experience recently - was asked for the letter that came with my insurance disk when it was clear all my window disks were OK. I think he wasn't happy with me generally and wanted to chat more. Eventually waved me on.

again I wouldn't be intimidated - not related to a cop but lived previously in countries where there isn't the same reverence for cop as a career choice. They are just lollipop people (dont quite believe that is correct attitude though but at least I wouldn't feel intimidated like most irish). My tax pays these guys wages and I operate within the law so they are obliged to be civil to me.

Still think he was wrong to ask for this letter even though asked him to confirm several times that it is necessary to carry it. Everyone I told story to said he was wrong that all you need to produce is licence and have clean paperwork on windscreen.

ojewriej

topper75 wrote: »

My tax pays these guys wages

I'm afraid you might be in trouble now.

eroo

Some Gardai can be a bit grouchy,but most of them are always nice!

King Ludvig

micmclo wrote: »

And yes, most people (me anyway) would be serious and subdued coming to a checkpoint. I wouldn't have said "well how's things" anyway, let the garda do the talking and say as little as possible.

Ive only been stoped at checkpoint twice. Im quite happy to be stoped and talk to the guard because on my interest in the job.

I would always say "hello officer" or whatever. Rolling down the window and saying nothing sounds kinda ignorant? I try to show the guard that I respect them and the job they're doing. They get enough ****e of people. Quite like having a chat with them, watching how things are done etc

topper75

Yes - always show them respect. Gardai are owed respect. But never show fear - that is just some kind of daft post-colonial hangover. They are OUR authority now - we pay the taxes to run the force don't forget. (and if that gets me in trouble then maybe we shouldn't pity Zimbabwe! LOL)

If some gardai get suspicious because someone is 'chirpy' at a checkpoint, then I would say that is a problem the garda themselves need to address. If the Templemore schooling teaches this, then that is just pathetic.

eroo

topper75 wrote: »

Yes - always show them respect. Gardai are owed respect. But never show fear - that is just some kind of daft post-colonial hangover. They are OUR authority now - we pay the taxes to run the force don't forget. (and if that gets me in trouble then maybe we shouldn't pity Zimbabwe! LOL)

opti76

i pay full prsi so im yechnically self emplyed according to ur logic.

you dont pay my wages you pay tax into the public purse....

speeding fines parking fines and court fines go into the public purse too believe me. the sad fact is our job depending on where you work makes you view all people with suspicion.


ive searched a car before cos the guy was too helpful had his licence insurance and nct ready for me whn i stoped him .. found guns and ammo in the spare wheel well..


99% people stopped at a check point are spot on no issue . its the 1 percent im looking for . so if i have to detain someone for a longer period of time until m satisfied that there is nothing suspect about it il do it ..

source

topper75 wrote: »

got similar experience recently - was asked for the letter that came with my insurance disk when it was clear all my window disks were OK. I think he wasn't happy with me generally and wanted to chat more. Eventually waved me on.

again I wouldn't be intimidated - not related to a cop but lived previously in countries where there isn't the same reverence for cop as a career choice. They are just lollipop people (dont quite believe that is correct attitude though but at least I wouldn't feel intimidated like most irish). My tax pays these guys wages and I operate within the law so they are obliged to be civil to me.

Still think he was wrong to ask for this letter even though asked him to confirm several times that it is necessary to carry it. Everyone I told story to said he was wrong that all you need to produce is licence and have clean paperwork on windscreen.

Topper that's not a "letter" that's the actual insurance certificate, which states what you're insured for, the disc is just to show the gardai that you have insurance on the car.

The fact of the matter is that no-one but the garda on the night know's why she did what she did, I would agree that sometimes someone who is "too chirpy" may have someone to hide, however i've had a great laugh with people on checkpoints, who have had nothing to hide.

OP, from what you recount she prob shouldn't have done what she did, but unless she's on here i'm afraid we'll never know her real reason. I'd also like to second the nog's point.

angelfire9

opti76 wrote: »

ive searched a car before cos the guy was too helpful had his licence insurance and nct ready for me whn i stoped him .. found guns and ammo in the spare wheel well..

Did you search it cos he had the stuff ready & you found it strange or cos he tweaked your Garda "antenna" (bad choice of words i know but you know what i mean!) :cool:

opti76 wrote: »

99% people stopped at a check point are spot on no issue . its the 1 percent im looking for . so if i have to detain someone for a longer period of time until im satisfied that there is nothing suspect about it il do it ..

I assuming though that you don't get agressive unless you have to?
This Garda last night was giving out major agressive vibes which i don't think is neccessary, even if i was a drug courier or gun runner surely a Garda doesn't have to show agression unless threatened?

It seems to me she was trying to throw her weight around a bit and seemed taken aback that i didn't react but did exactly what i was told!

I've often been stopped a check points up the country where i wouldn't be known and had a chat with the lads commenting on the weather or whatever, i've never before recieved a negative response to my "chirpy" attitude

Should i just keep my mouth shut anymore?

keen

Sounds like a right bitch imo.

So what way should we act at a checkpoint? Seems if a Guard has an issue with you they will make something up out of thin air to justify their suspicions.

I get the impression a certain number of Guards want to be feared and the OP treating them like a normal joe soap irrated her. Should I grunt next time I'm stopped say hello or say nothing? Suppose it does depend on the member, but what raises suspicison with members on here?

angelfire9

keen wrote: »

Sounds like a right bitch imo.

To be fair to her, she didn't appear to have a lot of years down so maybe she just needs more practice at checkpoints
I wouldn't say she is a bitch, just a bit too agressive
I suppose in hindsight there are a few reasons why she might have done what she did

• As someone else said maybe she saw a similar car somewhere else and wanted to check it out
  
• Maybe she knew the car and wanted to check me out
  
• Maybe she knew my OH and wanted to have a look at the wife :rolleyes:
  
• Maybe she thought i was being cheeky instead of "chirpy" but could hardly tell me she thought i was being cheeky when she realised who i was
  
• Maybe she wanted to know why i wasn't intimidated by her "Garda Presence"
  
• Maybe she knew my father and wanted to show me that having Garda connections doesn't influence the way she does her job (my father being former Sgt I/C in town) and my surname & address on licence would have been the same as his?
  
• Maybe she was just having a bad day and as i was all happy & chirpy (having had an extremely good day yesterday) she wanted to annoy me

God only knows why it happened

What i would like to know from other members on here is this:
Would you pull over a car at a checkpoint just because the driver was chirpy and asked you how you were?

drunkmonkey

angelfire9 wrote: »

So my question is this... is this what they are teaching in templemore these days????

Not it's not, but there's some getting through the net with serious bad attitudes....this girl was being contrary nothing else...

Was in a shop a while back and a plain clothes garda asked a female garda in uniforn to button up her shirt(it was a warm day, she was showing a tiny bit of clevage)

anyways....she swang round and told the plain clothes man to "go **** himself" turns out he was an inspector and she no longer has a job....

point is there's some contrary ones out there, you were just unlucky......lucky were all related to a garda in some way or another..;)

Random

@angelfire9
"For the record, neither did I, I didn't ask for it and i wasn't the one who told her who i was!"
Wasn't aimed at you - don't judge you as having done anything wrong here, was just a general thing to get off my chest and make clear.

markontap

Not to go off on a tangent but I've an experience from the other end of the scale. Was driving home with two mates one night at about 2AM and we passed through a checkpoint. A black glanza with three 19/20 YOs so could have warranted closer scrutiny than your usual Joe Soap. There were three cars already pulled over with two officers still on the road, one on each lane of the dual carriageway. The car we were in had its tax out by 2 months and NCT out by 6 but the guard just flashed his light on it and let us go on.. didn't ask for licence or nothing.

Are there any operational reasons why we would be let through? At the time I assumed they wanted to keep officers on the checkpoint and not leave one cop there for two lanes but that couldn't be right?

CLADA

topper75 wrote: »

My tax pays these guys wages

I've been meaning to have a chat with you. When are you going to renovate the dump of a station I'm working in?

angelfire9

clada wrote: »

i've Been Meaning To Have A Chat With You. When Are You Going To Renovate The Dump Of A Station I'm Working In?

+1

:d

eroo

OP I think your reading a bit too much into it!?

Eru

CLADA wrote: »

I've been meaning to have a chat with you. When are you going to renovate the dump of a station I'm working in?

+1
Thats only grievance number 1!

topper75 wrote: »

My tax pays these guys wages and I operate within the law so they are obliged to be civil to me.

Still think he was wrong to ask for this letter even though asked him to confirm several times that it is necessary to carry it. Everyone I told story to said he was wrong that all you need to produce is licence and have clean paperwork on windscreen.

topper75 wrote: »

we pay the taxes to run the force don't forget. (and if that gets me in trouble then maybe we shouldn't pity Zimbabwe! LOL)

If some gardai get suspicious because someone is 'chirpy' at a checkpoint, then I would say that is a problem the garda themselves need to address. If the Templemore schooling teaches this, then that is just pathetic.

A, your not obliged to carry but must produce within ten days on request. The disk on the windows are easily forged or stolen.

B, I pay the wages of staff in Buger King, my Mechanic, Bill Gates, the head of Mazda whoever it is, bus driver, train driver, Michael O'Leary on occasion, etc

The list goes on so stop before you flap your gums and think about what your saying. I probable pay your wages if you think about it.

C, Are you seriously trying to compare Ireland to Zimbabwe?

D, Criminals with something to hide are often overly friendly to avoid suspicion. the logic being they wouldnt stop and chat if they were carrying something or doing something. Its not uncommon to be stopped by a criminal ans asked the time but yet when they are clean they are rude and aggresive towards us because they know we cant arrest them for anything.

Lets also remember that the OP might have been drunk, not the person insured on the car, it could have been stolen or some other reason. the checkpoint may not have been for tax / insurance at all but because they were on the lookout for someone.

We dont know.

As the change in attitude, first off am I the only one that finds it strange the OP didnt simple ask the numerous Gardai she knows about this or even her partner? Still, being married to a Garda would preusmable mean your not a serial criminal or that you were not the person they were looking for. I have been stopped and searched before, dont take offence.

Nog,
The original member may have 1 weeks service compared to 10 years by the second. She may have been nervous or the second saw seomthing the first didnt. I wouldnt be bothered if a colleague did this, curious as to why but not insulted.

Eru

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Not it's not, but there's some getting through the net with serious bad attitudes....this girl was being contrary nothing else...

Was in a shop a while back and a plain clothes garda asked a female garda in uniforn to button up her shirt(it was a warm day, she was showing a tiny bit of clevage)

anyways....she swang round and told the plain clothes man to "go **** himself" turns out he was an inspector and she no longer has a job....

point is there's some contrary ones out there, you were just unlucky......lucky were all related to a garda in some way or another..;)

Sorry but dont believe that for a minute, how can she show cleavage wearing a tie? Or under a stab vest? Also, Inspector off duty can kiss my ass. No power without identifying themselves first and you wouldnt get sacked for that anyway unless you are in trouble a lot and its the final straw.

Esel

angelfire9 wrote:

• Maybe she thought i was being cheeky instead of "chirpy" but could hardly tell me she thought i was being cheeky when she realised who i was

Chirpy chirpy cheek cheek!

You could be right. I'll get me coat....

eroo

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Sorry but dont believe that for a minute, how can she show cleavage wearing a tie? Or under a stab vest? Also, Inspector off duty can kiss my ass. No power without identifying themselves first and you wouldnt get sacked for that anyway unless you are in trouble a lot and its the final straw.

+1

It is pretty hard to show cleavage without ripping the stab vest off and opening the top half of the shirt I'd imagine??:rolleyes:

Why would she lose her job for that?You might not even get fired in civvie street for saying that to a boss!

TheNog

topper75 wrote: »

got similar experience recently - was asked for the letter that came with my insurance disk when it was clear all my window disks were OK.

Still think he was wrong to ask for this letter even though asked him to confirm several times that it is necessary to carry it. Everyone I told story to said he was wrong that all you need to produce is licence and have clean paperwork on windscreen.

Although you are not required to carry your insurance certificate with you it can be demanded of you to produce it at a Garda Station within 10 days under the road traffic laws in Ireland.

You are required to carry your driving licence with you at all times though.

TheNog

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

+1
Nog,
The original member may have 1 weeks service compared to 10 years by the second. She may have been nervous or the second saw seomthing the first didnt. I wouldnt be bothered if a colleague did this, curious as to why but not insulted.

That is true but it would be better to pull the non experienced member to one side and tell him/her your suspicions and let them investigate that with your help rather than jumping straight in and leaving the stopping member standing there like an eejit.

That's how I would do it but suppose everyone is different

angelfire9

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Criminals with something to hide are often overly friendly to avoid suspicion. the logic being they wouldnt stop and chat if they were carrying something or doing something. Its not uncommon to be stopped by a criminal ans asked the time but yet when they are clean they are rude and aggresive towards us because they know we cant arrest them for anything.

So if an ordinary joe soap asks you for the time you would find that suspicious too?

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Lets also remember that the OP might have been drunk, not the person insured on the car, it could have been stolen or some other reason. the checkpoint may not have been for tax / insurance at all but because they were on the lookout for someone.

Maybe i'm being naive but i would have thought that if you came upon a drunk during a routine checkpoint that firstly you'd have a good idea from talking to them that they were drunk without asking them to get out of the car? And if she thought i was drunk why wasn't i breathalysed?
For the record i don't drink so i obviously wasn't drunk!
Regarding the insurance how do you form an opinion that the driver of the car is not the person insured on the car?
I'm in my thirties, i'm an accountant, i was dressed in a conservative suit, not the average get up of a criminal i would have thought???
Saying she thought the car was stolen is not really valid i was driving my own car! And if they were on the lookout for someone surely they'd have a description?

I'm not trying to argue with you here, obviously I have never done a checkpoint so i don't know but if she had asked me to get out of the car for a legitimate reason why all the apologies????

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

As the change in attitude, first off am I the only one that finds it strange the OP didnt simple ask the numerous Gardai she knows about this or even her partner? Still, being married to a Garda would preusmable mean your not a serial criminal or that you were not the person they were looking for. I have been stopped and searched before, dont take offence.

I didn't take offence, as i think i probably stated before she was just doing her job, and in fairness if i don't have respect for the job who does? I just have a problem with her reason behind it!
I DID ASK my dad and my husband about it, the father said she was probably throwing her weight around because i didn't seem to be intimidated by Gardai
The husband laughed and told me to forget about it?

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Nog,
The original member may have 1 weeks service compared to 10 years by the second. She may have been nervous or the second saw seomthing the first didnt. I wouldnt be bothered if a colleague did this, curious as to why but not insulted.

They were both youngish, definitely both younger than me
And i don't know how she could have "seen something" as i wasn't doing anything!!!!

Like you I was just curious at first as to why i had been singled out, but i was bothered by her reply hence the thread!