Bar Staff ??

the beer revolu

What do people think of the standard of bar service in this country?

I've had a go at bar managers in my blog.

Does anybody else feel the same or have stories relating to really bad service?
(I'll link this thread)

monkeyfudge

Well a big one for me is the putting ice in all spirits without asking you first...

Bleh... the amount of times I've ended up with a brandy with ice cubes in it...

the beer revolu

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Well a big one for me is the putting ice in all spirits without asking you first...

Bleh... the amount of times I've ended up with a brandy with ice cubes in it...

Yup, tequila too!

admiralofthefleet

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Well a big one for me is the putting ice in all spirits without asking you first...

Bleh... the amount of times I've ended up with a brandy with ice cubes in it...

thats just very bad bar service, anyone behind a bar with half a brain knows brandy does not come with ice

monkeyfudge

I was recently in a hotel bar on Abbey street and one of the drinks I ordered in a round was a bottle of sparkling water.. but it turned out the glass for the water had a massive crack in it. I brought it back up and the bar man emptied the ice and lemon slice into a fresh glass (yeah... fresh ice and a slice of lemon was going to break the bank) and then he poured a measure of vodka into the glass. Worth baring in mind that there were maybe just a dozen people in the bar at this point and I was the last person that he had served... He seemed a bit taken aback that I didn't want a glass with vodka in it.

Later I saw how the original glass probably got such a big crack in it as the other bar man was clearing pint glasses off tables by stacking them, he casually leaned on the stack at one table to say something to the people sitting there and his weight shattered the glass on the bottom of the stack all over the table.

And these weren't young lads or anything...

BeerNut

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

anyone behind a bar with half a brain knows brandy does not come with ice

Some people do drink brandy with ice. A single piece is quite popular. The important bit, however, is to be asked.

I absolutely hate being given a warm glass straight out of the dishwasher for my bottle of erdinger :mad:

Ham'nd'egger

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I was recently in a hotel bar on Abbey street

God, that could be anywhere in Ireland

monkeyfudge

Hamndegger wrote: »

God, that could be anywhere in Ireland

Ha... I didn't say if it was Upper, Middle or Lower... It could be any one of perhaps 2 hotels.

the beer revolu

Or when the (usually male) server opens the bottle ans slams it on the counter so that it all fizzes up and overflows!

Nice.

Also seen people flip bottles of wine before opening them.

Oh, and Do shake fruit juice before serving,please.

JIZZLORD

my hate is when someone starts pouring guinness for you but then they put down the glass and walk off leaving it to pour itself. i've never accecpted one of these pints but they still occur in places from time to time in pubs.

BeerNut

JIZZLORD wrote: »

my hate is when someone starts pouring guinness for you but then they put down the glass and walk off leaving it to pour itself.

What's wrong with this?

Ham'nd'egger

JIZZLORD wrote: »

my hate is when someone starts pouring guinness for you but then they put down the glass and walk off leaving it to pour itself. i've never accecpted one of these pints but they still occur in places from time to time in pubs.

I'd hate it more if they forget to return to the glass and it's overflowed; sticky fingers :mad:

Rowley Birkin QC

BeerNut wrote: »

What's wrong with this?

Ah no, you're not a guiness drinker are you??

Had a big argument with the owner of Bodkins about this last week. He finally admitted that if it was quieter in the bar he would pout it the proper way.

Really dents the whole product when Guinness is poured like this, in the bar I worked in it would be thrown back at you if poured like this. Also, my gf works for Diageo marketing, they were pretty pissed off when she told them the story.

Frank the Manc

ive given up on the Porter house, plain have really gone down hill in that place and about 2 weeks ago i witnessed why, a barman from Oz/NZ was pulling 2 pints of plain, the first one having a fairly big head, so instead of letting it settle longer or start a fresh one, pulls the pint to completion and with a butter knife from his back pocket proceeds to slice the excess off with it, stright accross the rim of the glass.
now ive come accross this on the continent with largers and its still shít but this was ridiculous.
this wasnt a pint for me or anyone i knew but if it was he would have got the dogs abuse and rightly so.

the same dirty eejit then sometime later got 2 bottles of i think Tooheys or some beer with sediment that a customer had ordered and proceeded to roll them alcross the slop tray fairly vigriorsly before opening them for the customer.

now i know tha soem like to stir the sediment up a little before drinking but his was bang out of order, a most definitely should be a personal choice.

to pull that sort of shít and to take €5+ off a punter for the pleasure is just unreal.

the bar was by no means busy at this stage either so there is no excuse other than pure unprofessionalism

BeerNut

bigkev49 wrote: »

Ah no, you're not a guiness drinker are you??

I am if there's nothing better available.

bigkev49 wrote: »

Really dents the whole product when Guinness is poured like this

By "product" do you mean the concept and the ritual? 'Cos I don't see how it would affect what comes out of the keg.

bigkev49 wrote: »

Also, my gf works for Diageo marketing, they were pretty pissed off when she told them the story.

I'd imagine so. Their job is creating and sustaining myths about Guinness, and I think this is one of them.

A 45 degree-angle, and therefore a larger surface area on the head, is one way of keeping the head from becoming too thick. But I can't see how it would affect how the finished pint tastes. Likewise the two-part pour.

Frank the Manc wrote:

with a butter knife from his back pocket proceeds to slice the excess off with it, stright accross the rim of the glass

Can you explain how this would make a difference? Not that I'm defending the standard of service in the Porterhouse, but with nitrokegged stout -- given all the intensive treatment it goes through before it hits the glass -- I just don't see how things like this would affect how the pint tastes and feels. Any observations on this?

oblivious

BeerNut wrote: »

Can you explain how this would make a difference??

Maybe he was objecting that the knife had been in his back pocket and used on his pint?

Theta

To be honest the porterhouse is pretty rubbish to be honest. There all about the we sell it so we know better than you. I have friends been given wine glasses to drink there beer out there because they asked for the correct type of glass for that beer, or being told that we don't sell that beer of that beer doesn't come in that style when there in the fridge being the server. If you want to run a bar that sells niche beers you at least have to give your staff some training on WHAT YOU SELL.

the beer revolu

irlmarc wrote: »

If you want to run a bar that sells niche beers you at least have to give your staff some training on WHAT YOU SELL.

That was my point exacty.

Jimoslimos

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Well a big one for me is the putting ice in all spirits without asking you first...

Bleh... the amount of times I've ended up with a brandy with ice cubes in it..

In fairness if somebody came up to me and asked for a spirit with a mixer (vodka+red bull, JD+coke, G+T, etc,) I'd automatically throw some ice-cubes in.

Anyone asking for whiskeys (solo or with water), or brandy would get a choice.

In a busy bar I've found this method works best

the beer revolu

Jimoslimos wrote: »

In fairness if somebody came up to me and asked for a spirit with a mixer (vodka+red bull, JD+coke, G+T, etc,) I'd automatically throw some ice-cubes in.

Anyone asking for whiskeys (solo or with water), or brandy would get a choice.

In a busy bar I've found this method works best

You obviously know you stuff! Many bar staff don't have your cop on or knowledge.
I hope you're as good with beer.:)

johnnyskeleton

Being refused entry into a place that I and all my mates could have spent €50 or more each in because they didn't like the look of my shoes or some other reason is probably the worst and stupid thing that pub/club employees do.

I always find it funny though when you see a club that is mostly empty refusing people at the door.

the beer revolu

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Being refused entry into a place that I and all my mates could have spent €50 or more each in because they didn't like the look of my shoes or some other reason is probably the worst and stupid thing that pub/club employees do.

I always find it funny though when you see a club that is mostly empty refusing people at the door.

Oh don't start me on 'dress codes'!!:mad:

I thought that the 'runners' thing and the 'shirt thing' was a thing of the past but apparently not!

DenMan

Was in The Baggot Inn recently and found the staff to be very nice. It's all done up now inside, new owner is a decent bloke. A lot of Brazilian girls working there. Had a great time chatting them up. Well worth a visit Brothers.

Jimoslimos

the beer revolu wrote: »

You obviously know you stuff! Many bar staff don't have your cop on or knowledge.
I hope you're as good with beer.:)

Ah I was only an average barman:) As for beer didn't actually get much call for it in the bar I was working in (dealing mostly in spirits and bottles) and even then it was only for Bud/p1$$

As for Guinness gotta agree with the poster who commented on the 2-part pour being a ritual with no effect on the finished product. Still its a service industry and if that's what the customer wants (with gentle persuasion from Diageo) that's what the customer gets..

Fall_Guy

I have become fully convinced that the whole two part pour thing is absolute nonsense. For a long time I was of the notion that it would be unthinkable for a pint served from a single pour to be of the same quality as one that was the result of a two part pour. But when I thought about this, the only reason that I thought this to be true was because that was what I was led to believe by equally ignorant blokes when I first started frequenting pubs in my mounger days.

Really can't understand how it can alter the overall taste of the drink. Unfortunately, the myth is so entrenched in the psyche of most at this stage that any diversions from the ritual leads to people giving out and complaining about the quality of service!

As for quality of bar staff, what I value most highly is manners and a pleasant demeanour, closely followed by a decent knowledge of the products that are on offer in the bar. Both these qualities would be preferable, however!

monkeyfudge

The first taste is with the eyes. If the Guinness head doesn't look right then it's going to affect your enjoyment of the pint.

BeerNut

monkeyfudge wrote: »

The first taste is with the eyes.

With ice-cold nitro-stout it's generally the last taste too.

_blank_

Single pour guinness, with the glass left down so it gets all frothy on the head is wrong, imo.

I've handed a pint back to a barman who did this. I actually thought he was drawing off when he left the glass down.

There is one barman, in the Porter House just off Grafton Street.

He spent ages talking to me about all of the different beers in the pub.

He knew a lot about the beers he wa selling. He remembered I had asked for the Baltika Porter, and recommended a few others for me to try based on that. It was a busy night too, so fair play to him.

job3

BeerNut wrote: »

A 45 degree-angle, and therefore a larger surface area on the head, is one way of keeping the head from becoming too thick. But I can't see how it would affect how the finished pint tastes. Likewise the two-part pour.

I find that if you pour guinness in a single pour by the time it settles it overflows. Thats just my opinion tho.

BeerNut

job3 wrote: »

I find that if you pour guinness in a single pour by the time it settles it overflows. Thats just my opinion tho.

It can do. Or you can end up with too thick a head. But like any beer that's running too high you just tip a bit out and top it up until the head is the desired thickness.

aktelmiele

DesF wrote: »

There is one barman, in the Porter House just off Grafton Street.

He spent ages talking to me about all of the different beers in the pub.

He knew a lot about the beers he wa selling. He remembered I had asked for the Baltika Porter, and recommended a few others for me to try based on that. It was a busy night too, so fair play to him.

Think I have spoken to him too.

They ran out of some beer I was drinking so he recomended a few beers to try.

Its not the first time that they have run out of Staropramen but he still offers the same beers each time.

Kind of like deja vu!

BeerNut

Short blond hair? If so, that's Dave. He's now one of the owners of the company and is in charge of their marketing. Sounds like he's doing the best kind of marketing: one-to-one across the bar.

Mongo

I'm a bar man myself and most of the complaints here seem to be very reasonable.

As far as ice goes I only ask people if they want ice if they are drinking a brandy or whiskey etc. Vodka and Gin etc is automatically served with ice unless stated otherwise.

I think the 2 part pour is important as it effects the look and the texture of the pint. And as someone said the first taste is with the eyes.

I find most bar staff to be quite pleasant and fairly competent. Irish customers expect so much from staff in the service industry in return for so little. Why should bar staff be nice to a customer who is a complete asshat to them?

BeerNut

Mongo wrote: »

I think the 2 part pour is important as it effects the look and the texture of the pint.

Can you explain how? Given that the head depth can be adjusted after a full pour -- like any other beer that's running high -- what way are the appearance and (especially) the texture affected?

Blisterman

Someone should do a blindfolded test on people who insist that a 2 part pour tastes better, to see if they can tell the difference.

oblivious

Blisterman wrote: »

Someone should do a blindfolded test on people who insist that a 2 part pour tastes better, to see if they can tell the difference.

triangle three way beer taste is the absolute, if you cant can a difference in two there is none

Degag

BeerNut wrote: »

Can you explain how? Given that the head depth can be adjusted after a full pour -- like any other beer that's running high -- what way are the appearance and (especially) the texture affected?

Well it can only be adjusted if the head is too big not if its too small (guinness)... A guy came into me a few weeks ago asking for a guinness with a big head, wtf???

Everything that mongo said is correct... people who complain about getting ice and lemon in their gin/vodka should tell the barman that they don't want it, as that is the way its served in virtually every pub i know... its the norm.

kmart6

If someone orders a Vodka or Gin off me I always put ice and lemon in it, it's proper order! But if I do it and bring it make to the customer and they then tell me they don't want ice/lemon they'll be waiting a lot longer to get served the next time!:D

job3

All this talk got me interested so I had a look on wikipedia and this is what they had to say about the two part pour.

''This tradition comes from when Guinness was served from the cask, and initially older beer was poured into a glass until it was 3/4 full, then left to stand. When ordered by the customer, the glass was topped up from younger, gassier beer, producing the traditional head. As the beer is no longer blended from different ages of beer, the double pour is no longer required for the mixing of beers but is still maintained as it produces a better pint as the head does not over fill the glass and need to be discarded.''

Seems like a reasonable explanation.:)

oblivious

job3 wrote: »

All this talk got me interested so I had a look on wikipedia and this is what they had to say about the two part pour.

''This tradition comes from when Guinness was served from the cask, and initially older beer was poured into a glass until it was 3/4 full, then left to stand. When ordered by the customer, the glass was topped up from younger, gassier beer, producing the traditional head. As the beer is no longer blended from different ages of beer, the double pour is no longer required for the mixing of beers but is still maintained as it produces a better pint as the head does not over fill the glass and need to be discarded.''

Seems like a reasonable explanation.:)

not sure about the blending of aged beer, it been a very long time since any commerical beer has been served blended. But the cask version only went out of served in the late 50's or early 60's i think

BeerNut

Tackle69 wrote: »

Well it can only be adjusted if the head is too big not if its too small (guinness)

Not that I've ever seen it in real life, but surely it's the same as any other keg beer: give the tap a whack and put another jet of foam in.

job3 wrote: »

All this talk got me interested so I had a look on wikipedia

oblivious wrote: »

not sure about the blending of aged beer, it been a very long time since any commerical beer has been served blended. But the cask version only went out of served in the late 50's or early 60's i think

Wikipedia's explanation is also to be found in Iorwerth Griffiths's book, where he says it was solely an urban phenomenon. However I have never spoken to anyone who remembers drinking cask Guinness in any form: always bottles, even in Dublin.

What amazes me it that there was no public outcry when Guinness went from cask to nitrokeg. But then this was was the era of Progress and everyone was too busy ripping up railway lines to notice...

oblivious

BeerNut wrote: »

But then this was was the era of Progress and everyone was too busy ripping up railway lines to notice...

and leaving the coutry

Mossin

Tackle69 wrote: »

people who complain about getting ice and lemon in their gin/vodka should tell the barman that they don't want it, as that is the way its served in virtually every pub i know... its the norm.

There are 2 sides to that point. Customers should specify that they dont want ice and/or lemon in their drink, but the barperson shouldnt assume just because they dont say it that its ok to put it in, theu also have a responsibility to ask the customer.

kmart6 wrote: »

If someone orders a Vodka or Gin off me I always put ice and lemon in it, it's proper order! But if I do it and bring it make to the customer and they then tell me they don't want ice/lemon they'll be waiting a lot longer to get served the next time!:D

That'd the problem with bar staff in this country, when a customer doesnt tell staff something, and staff assume it to be true, as i pointed out above, the staff hold a grudge and make it more difficult for the customer to get a drink the following time. That really annoying on behalf of the customer.

the beer revolu wrote: »

What do people think of the standard of bar service in this country?

I was in Killarney recently and had varying standards of bar staff. From the very friendly local staff in Dunloe, who very so helpful and nice, to the ridiculously ignorant staff in a pub in Killarney town.
The standard of staff is on the decline, because people arent as appreciative of what they have anymore. I worked in bars/hotels/nightclubs for 12 years, and I'm only 23. I appreciate what all aspects of pub life. I know what work is onvolved behind the scenes that a lot of bar staff dont see, and the customers dont recognise occurs. That is why I acknowledge customers when they enter a premises, and accept that they are right in what they want, even if you know better, staff must accommodate the customer. Albeit there are a few exceptions.

BeerNut wrote: »

Some people do drink brandy with ice. A single piece is quite popular. The important bit, however, is to be asked.

Exactly, being asked makes it more acceptable.

BeerNut

Mossin wrote: »

There are 2 sides to that point. Customers should specify that they dont want ice and/or lemon in their drink, but the barperson shouldnt assume just because they dont say it that its ok to put it in, theu also have a responsibility to ask the customer.

From my experience, while most people would just say "yes" if asked if they want ice in their vodka or gin, there are many who react as if you'd asked them whether they'd prefer that in a glass or a mug. And their number is greater than those who prefer no ice.

I know one person who drinks vodka and Coke and doesn't like ice, and she is always very careful to make this clear when ordering. Not being so careful, in the face of convention, is daft.

Degag

BeerNut wrote: »

Not that I've ever seen it in real life, but surely it's the same as any other keg beer: give the tap a whack and put another jet of foam in.

There is no gas valve on the guinness tap like there is on lager taps, therefore not possible to adjust the head. The example you gave only works on lagers/beers.

Mossin wrote:

There are 2 sides to that point. Customers should specify that they dont want ice and/or lemon in their drink, but the barperson shouldnt assume just because they dont say it that its ok to put it in, theu also have a responsibility to ask the customer.

From the point of view of the barman, on a busy night, 90-95% of people take their drinks with ice and lemon and a good barman is an effecient barman. I do take your point though.

I'm from the killarney area myself and while i don't work there i frequent it fairly often.. which pub were you unhappy with the service?

BeerNut

Tackle69 wrote: »

There is no gas valve on the guinness tap like there is on lager taps, therefore not possible to adjust the head. The example you gave only works on lagers/beers.

Fair enough. So what do bars do if the Guinness is running too low to produce the right sort of head? Sounds like the ideal opportunity for a one-part pour

Degag

BeerNut wrote: »

Fair enough. So what do bars do if the Guinness is running too low to produce the right sort of head? Sounds like the ideal opportunity for a one-part pour

Well what bars do is keep filling and hope no one complains! Not very ethical, but it happens... if you get complaints then you might change the barrel.

kmart6

Mossin wrote: »

That'd the problem with bar staff in this country, when a customer doesnt tell staff something, and staff assume it to be true, as i pointed out above, the staff hold a grudge and make it more difficult for the customer to get a drink the following time. That really annoying on behalf of the customer.

Well that's just tough sh1t! If you want your drink a certain way ask for it when orderig not after it's given to you! It's annoying for the bar staff!

the beer revolu

Ooooo. I've opened a right little can of worms here, haven't I?

I too did my time behind bars. I probably wasn't the greatest barman ever but I made it my business to know every product that the bar served, I got to know regular's preferences.
I would have always put ice and lemon in white spirits and asked what was required in other spirits.
Let's face it, the two part pour is probably here to stay whether it's necessary or not.

If I'm drinking a bottled lager I prefer a small glass, so I ask for it.
Ditto for a Pint Bottle of Guinness.

Fall_Guy

Tackle69 wrote: »

There is no gas valve on the guinness tap like there is on lager taps, therefore not possible to adjust the head. The example you gave only works on lagers/beers.

Having never worked as a barman i'm not certain of this, but if there is no gas valve on a guiness tap, why do some barmen talk about the importance of pushing the tap forward as opposed to pulling it back when topping up the pint after its settled? I always presumed this had something to do with more gas coming through when the tap it pushed forward? (I ask this only out of ignorance and interest, not trying to argue the fact, as i have no knowledge of it!)