Prius and VRT

Soarer

Howye.

I've been doing a bit of thinking about what (safe/family/economical) car to get. Herself is expecting our first, and with all the numpties on the road, I'd like them to be as safe as possible.
Was gonna get a diesel, but the way things are going, it'll work out too expensive as we don't do big mileage.

And this morning I thought "what about a Prius?".

Personally, I don't believe in this whole "global warming" thing, but herself does so the Prius seems plausible.

Anyways, after all that rambling, my question is:
Currently you get 50% back on the VRT of a Hybrid, yeah? Which is why the 05 Prius I'm looking at, with an OMSP of €21127 and a VRT rate of 25%, is showing that the VRT payable is only €2640.
But in the new system, you no longer get 50% back, you get a flat refund of €2500, correct?
So using the same details as the example above with the OMSP is €21127, the VRT rate will be 14% (co2 of 104) as opposed to 25% currently.
That'll give a figure of €2957, less the €2500 refund, so the VRT payable will only be €457.

Is that right?

Also, is the OMSP gonna change come July? I mean, a new Prius is gonna cost more as the VRT payable on it is gonna jump up. Will this have a knock-on effect on the older ones?

JHMEG

You won't get €2,500 unless you buy a one made between 1 July 2008 to 31 December 2010.

Simple way to look at it:
Currently the VRT is 12.5%. July it'll be 14%.

Prius isn't the only show in town.
For example:
http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=3737

E92

A Toyota Aygo/Citroen C1/Peugeot 107 is practically as frugal but costs less than half the price.

Soarer

JHMEG wrote: »

You won't get €2,500 unless you buy a one made between 1 July 2008 to 31 December 2010.

Simple way to look at it:
Currently the VRT is 12.5%. July it'll be 14%.

Prius isn't the only show in town.
For example:
http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=3737

At the minute, you get a 50% rebate on newly registered cars, be they new or imports. That equates to the 12.5% you mentioned above, as the 1.5 should be 25% VRT.
Are you telling me that from July, on a new Prius I will pay 14% VRT less €2500 rebate, but on an import Prius I'll pay 14% VRT and get no rebate?
That can't be right surely?!

Soarer

E92 wrote: »

A Toyota Aygo/Citroen C1/Peugeot 107 is practically as frugal but costs less than half the price.

Not really big enough for a "family" though, are they?
Well I don't think so anyway.

JHMEG

Soarer wrote: »

Are you telling me that from July, on a new Prius I will pay 14% VRT less €2500 rebate, but on an import Prius I'll pay 14% VRT and get no rebate?

That is correct. It "encourages" people to buy new cars.

We have two Civic IMAs in the family. The VRT is 11.25% presently. I bought my one last week to make sure I get it in before VRT goes up to 14%.

JHMEG

I have been reading the gobbledegook that is the 2008 Finance Bill (persuant to subjection this that and the other), and I may be wrong on the €2500 thing.

(3) (a) Where a person first registers a category A vehicle or a category B vehicle during the period from 1 July 15 2008 to 31 December 2010 and the Commissioners are satisfied that the vehicle is—
(i) a series production hybrid electric vehicle, or
(ii) a series production flexible fuel vehicle,
then the Commissioners may remit or repay to that person up to a maximum amount of 2,500 of the vehicle registration tax payable or paid by reference to the Table to this subsection in accordance with paragraphs (a), (b) or (c) of section 132(3).
(b) In this subsection “age”, in relation to a vehicle means the time that has elapsed since the date on which the vehicle first entered into service.

Age of vehicle - Maximum amount which may be remitted or repaid
New vehicle, first registration - 2,500
Not a new vehicle but less than 2 years - 2,250
2 years or over but less than 3 years - 2,000
3 years or over but less than 4 years - 1,750
4 years or over but less than 5 years - 1,500
5 years or over but less than 6 years - 1,250
6 years or over but less than 7 years - 1,000
7 years or over but less than 8 years - 750
8 years or over but less than 9 years - 500
9 years or over but less than 10 years - 250
10 years or over - 0

Page 107 of this:
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2008/0308/B03b08d.pdf

ninty9er

Toyota have reduced the OMSP of the Prius, so a new one is now cheaper than before (I'm assuming they're factoring the rebate of €2,500 though).

It's in the Which car manufacturers will suffer after July thread

BillyGoatGruff

So just to clarify (if i may interupt this thread).

If my father buys a Civic Hybrid IMA New in July he will only pay 14% VRT and ALSO get the €2500 rebate.

Is this FACT.

JHMEG

BillyGoatGruff wrote: »

So just to clarify (if i may interupt this thread).

If my father buys a Civic Hybrid IMA New in July he will only pay 14% VRT and ALSO get the €2500 rebate.

Is this FACT.

The revenue may refund €2500. I don't know why it isn't will.

JHMEG

Ok, I just spoke to people in three VROs, and all 3 said the refund is not guaranteed, but didn't know why or what criteria as they hadn't been told. Lots of humming and hawing, with "we don't deal with hybrids too often":rolleyes:

Fcuking typical civil servants.

The only one that might know I'm told is Clonmel, as they are an enquiries office, but they close at 12:45pm:rolleyes:

Soarer

Jesus JHMEG, sorry for all this! You're like a dog with a bone!:D

That said, tis probably your own morbid curiosity that's driving you to do it!

Another thing I've been thinking of.
Are they actually going to "refund" the money, or is it just knocked off the original figure? Currently on the VRT calculator, the reduced rate of 12.5% applies so no refund is necessary.

JHMEG

Final update. One VRO came back to me and confirmed the the rebate is guaranteed, according to the table above.

JHMEG

Soarer wrote: »

Jesus JHMEG, sorry for all this! You're like a dog with a bone!:D

No worries as it's the difference for me between €1700 and €400 VRT!

I understand the wording now. It's to allow for where the VRT is less than the amount of the rebate. They won't give you money, but you could end up paying zero VRT.

BillyGoatGruff

JHMEG wrote: »

Final update. One VRO came back to me and confirmed the the rebate is guaranteed, according to the table above.

Fair play to you JHMEG. Your an asset to boards.ie

Soarer

JHMEG wrote: »

Final update. One VRO came back to me and confirmed the the rebate is guaranteed, according to the table above.

Top work JHMEG.
If that table you posted isn't sticked somewhere with the new VRT rates, it certainly should be.

pburns

Soarer wrote: »

Was gonna get a diesel, but the way things are going, it'll work out too expensive as we don't do big mileage.

And this morning I thought "what about a Prius?".

Personally, I don't believe in this whole "global warming" thing, but herself does so the Prius seems plausible.

First of all, what makes you think a diesel will be 'too expensive'? That may be the case at the moment but post-july the difference between petrol/diesel cars will be hugely reduced...

I'm a total sceptic about hybrids. Unless you're doing pretty much all your driving in urban areas they're pretty much useless - all that extra weight and complexity. Plus i think there are still question marks over disposal of batteries at end-of-life.

In the real word, in irish conditions (increased prices not-withstanding) I think diesel is a better bet.

Although i do think there will be a diesel back-lash at some stage. They may emit less CO2 but AFAIK there are other potential problems with diesel (E92 has elaborated on this elsewhere). If your wife wants to be seen as 'environmentally aware' buy a modern, efficent petrol family car and keep it going for a couple of decades...

Soarer

I didn't mean that diesel cars are too expensive, even though they are more expensive than their petrol counterparts, I meant diesel fuel is getting too expensive. As it stands, it's 10c a litre more than petrol. God only knows how much more it'll go up as demand outstrips supply.

As for disposal of batteries, I'd be hoping I'd have the car well and truly sold on by that stage!

And I know about the diesel being worse than petrol thing. I can see everyone changing to diesel and in a few years, the Greens go "actually diesel's way worse than petrol, so we're gonna double yere roadtax!". Maybe not exactly like that, but something similar.
That's why I reckon diesel is a no-no.

OTK

JHMEG wrote: »

That is correct. It "encourages" people to buy new cars.

We have two Civic IMAs in the family. The VRT is 11.25% presently. I bought my one last week to make sure I get it in before VRT goes up to 14%.

Would you not have been better importing a Civic IMA from the UK in July? My reading of the above is that the rebate will apply to imports.

JHMEG

OTK wrote: »

Would you not have been better importing a Civic IMA from the UK in July?

No date on the V5C takes care of that. I will date it to July just before I go into the VRO.

E92

A diesel may or may not match the Prius on mpg but it would be far cheaper to buy. If low running costs are that important, then why spend a fortune on a car that is even on the official figures not any more economical than the soon to arrive Ford Focus ECOnetic(and has been shown in tests to be more frugal than the Prius)? The Sunday Times found that a BMW 520d will use less fuel than the Prius when they tested it recently; the test was 20% Motorway, 40% rural driving and 40% urban driving, so I suspect that a smaller diesel would easily beat the 520d for mpg and therefore beat the Prius. When Auto Express tested the Prius against the Civic IMA, Lexus GS hybrid, VW Polo Bluemotion, Seat Ibiza Ecomotive, Skoda Fabia Greenline, Ford Focus ECOnetic and MINI Cooper Clubman D then Prius only beat the Honda and unsurprisingly the Lexus.

Though diesels are very bad for cancer causing particulates and Nitrous Oxide, which means we'll all be breathing in crappier air. Current Euro 4 limits allow diesels to pollute 5 times more than a petrol for particulates, and most petrols pollute no particulates at all.

As for the rebate well if Lexus can get the LS600h to get the €2,500 rebate(according to their July prices the hybrid price "includes €2,500 VRT rebate") then you can bet your left leg that a Civic IMA or a Prius will get one too.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

A diesel may or may not match the Prius on mpg but it would be far cheaper to buy.

1st off, what diesel specifically would be cheaper (there is no diesel Prius)? OP is talking 2nd hand, so can do we even compare in the same years? Come July rebates of up to €2,500 on VRT, which diesels won't get.

You can quote all the reviews you want that make hybrids look bad.. most of them are dubious, like the Auto Express one. Testing methodology? No mention of one, so they probably just hoored around in 3rd gear.

OTOH you can look at some of the sites that are a bit more scientific. One site I was looking at (testing methodology fully explained) shows the Civic Hybrid (the 38mpg one according to Auto Express) consistently does over 90mpg when driven at at a steady 50mph.

Cyrus

ah come one, my bmw m3 does 35-38 mpg when driven steadily at 70 mph on a straight road with no inclines aswell, but what does that prove

JHMEG

Cyrus wrote: »

ah come one, my bmw m3 does 35-38 mpg when driven steadily at 70 mph on a straight road with no inclines aswell, but what does that prove

I know for a fact that the M3 does 19mpg at best.

Soarer

Cyrus wrote: »

ah come one, my bmw m3 does 35-38 mpg when driven steadily at 70 mph on a straight road with no inclines aswell, but what does that prove

You sure it's not a 320i with an M3 badge?

Cyrus

i know for a fact what it does i drive the thing every day

and in sixth gear with cruise control on at 70 mph i get in the mid 30s mpg.

around town or when hammering it i get in the mid teens but thats not the point im making

Cyrus

Soarer wrote: »

You sure it's not a 320i with an M3 badge?

yeah positive,

altho im not sure if a fella looking to buy a prius would spot the difference ;)

JHMEG

What has your M3's fuel economy got to do with anything on this thread?

Cyrus

ok, i get it that you are annoyed that you were wrong but dont get snappy :pac:

what it has to do with it, as you well know,

is that you saying a civic hybrid will do 90mpg when driven at a constant 50mph means sweet fa if a highly tuned naturally aspirated sports car can do over 30mpg when cruising at a higher speed.

obviously on both cars mixed mpg is going to be a lot lower

OTK

E92 wrote: »

A...Ford Focus ECOnetic...a BMW 520d ... Civic IMA, Lexus GS hybrid... VW Polo Bluemotion...Seat Ibiza Ecomotive... Skoda Fabia Greenline, ...MINI Cooper Clubman D

None of these cars are in the same car class as a prius. It would more useful to compare it with other cars in the "Large Family Car" class.

E92

A Prius is no more spacious than a Focus(and it still lost to it). The 520d is a much bigger car and it still was shown by the Sunday Times that the Prius is less of a miser on the fuel.

Besides if you're really careful you can get a very high mpg figure from any car. Anywhere I've read that says that a hybrid can do all these wonderful mpg figures always involves a catch; driving slowly usually being that catch, slowing down reduces fuel consumption anyway, or else the pulse and glide thing which is IMO very dangerous to other road users(more going slowly and then rapid acceleration to get up to speed and then slowing down again), so what does that prove?

A Prius is much dearer than an Auris for a start(things are bad when I'm praising the Auris), and they are the same type of car really.

JHMEG

Cyrus wrote: »

ok, i get it that you are annoyed that you were wrong but dont get snappy :pac:

what it has to do with it, as you we

Nah, you're still missing the point. Point is: one test has no method and is badly done. The other does and is fully explained and comprehensively well done. I would chose to ignore the badly done one.

You adding in what your M3 does has nothing to do with it. (Car may be fast, not so sure about the driver.)

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

The 520d is a much bigger car and it still was shown by the Sunday Times that the Prius is less of a miser on the fuel.

Give it a rest will ya. The test was immediately flawed as the two cars had different drivers. Until I see it proven scientifically I'm consigning it to the bull**** bin.

Cyrus

im getting a bit annoyed at the veiled digs to be honest, youve never even met me, and how fast i drive is a) not something you could know and b) none of your business.

I am just taking a piece of fact in total isolation and showing that it proves nothing. obviously my mpg of over 30 is on a motor way with no incline at 70 mph. obviously my combined mpg is a lot lower, circa 19-22 over 1000 miles or so.

saying that the hybrid thingy does 90mpg at a constant lowish speed means nothing as nobody can drive at a constant speed like that, its not a real world test.

Didnt e92 have a test where it showed an ED bmw 520d out priusing the prius. i suppose that doesnt count :rolleyes:

ninty9er

E92 wrote: »

A Prius is no more spacious than a Focus

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

There's someone that's never been in the back seat of either. Or if he has he's not more than 5' 10"

A Prius is DEFINITELY bigger than a Focus. The boot in the Focus saloon might catcht the Prius on size, but it'd be close.

ninty9er

Cyrus wrote: »

Didnt e92 have a test where it showed an ED bmw 520d out priusing the prius. i suppose that doesnt count :rolleyes:

He could show a test with a 760iL ED emitting less CO2 than a pushbike. Doesn't mean it's true:rolleyes:

Cyrus

ninty9er wrote: »

He could show a test with a 760iL ED emitting less CO2 than a pushbike. Doesn't mean it's true:rolleyes:

well here it is again, read it

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/used_car_reviews/article3552994.ece

and stop believing all this waffle about hybrids

:rolleyes: yourself

JHMEG

Cyrus wrote: »

well here it is again, read it

You'd need to be gullible to believe that garbage. The comparison is worthless as there were two different drivers. Go read some proper stuff will ya.

While your at it Cyrus you might tell us how you reckon it's all waffle? Lots of personal experience at driving hybrids? (I'll wager you have no experience at all)

Cyrus

Why is it garbage? Because you don't like its findings? And two different drivers render it null and void? Despite the fact the guy in the prius turned off his radio and ac to maximise mpg and the bmw driver didn't. And no i've never driven a hybrid nor do i have interest unless its something interesting! But you obviously haven't driven an m3 but it didn't stop you making a false statement of fact being that one could never do better than 19mpg! ! I'm sure there will be more tests done comparing hybrids to ed bmw's and lets see how it goes you'd rather just belive the hype for now it seems

JHMEG wrote: »

You'd need to be gullible to believe that garbage. The comparison is worthless as there were two different drivers. Go read some proper stuff will ya.

While your at it Cyrus you might tell us how you reckon it's all waffle? Lots of personal experience at driving hybrids? (I'll wager you have no experience at all)

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

Give it a rest will ya. The test was immediately flawed as the two cars had different drivers. Until I see it proven scientifically I'm consigning it to the bull**** bin.

You mean that when they turned off the aircon in the Prius and the radio, as well as leaving those things on in the BMW, where they spent 80% of the test in conditions that would favour the Toyota(there is absolutely no question that the 40% of the time spent in traffic was playing right into the hands of the Prius), and where and I quote they "had to slow down to let the Prius catch up" on the Motorway, and STILL the 520d was more frugal that it was "flawed". The only flaw is that you don't like the result!

That the fact it was a BMW above all else that beat a hybrid is clouding your judgement. You never question the authority of those who get good mpg figures from hybrids though do you;)?

Fear not, we're getting a new 520d in July, which is mechanically identical to the one used in the aforementioned Sunday Times test, so I'll be able to report just how frugal it is in about 2 months time when we've it properly run in:)!

@ninty9er:The Prius is no more capacious than a Focus, and yes I have sat in both. I'm far from the tallest person in the world but I certainly don't remember having a lot of legroom in one.

And there is a difference of 23 litres in boot size for the hatchback, while the Focus saloon makes minced meat of the Prius's boot at 526 litres(408 for the Prius), which is bigger than amongst others, the Avensis and only 9 less than the much larger Mondeo.

When it comes to economy tests, I can't blame the testers for finding out whatever they find. You'd swear I personally pay them to make BMW look as good as possible with some of the nonsense going around here:rolleyes:.

JHMEG

Cyrus wrote: »

Why is it garbage? Because you don't like its findings? And two different drivers render it null and void?

Where is the balance in the test? The drivers could have swapped cars half way through, but they didn't. Bottom line is you can choose to blindly believe figures without questioning them. You missed the 19mpg thing: I read it somewhere, and I chose to blindly believe it.

E92 wrote:

You mean that when they turned off the aircon in the Prius and the radio, as well as leaving those things on in the BMW,

Which makes me wonder why they even did the test, if they're not going to do it fairly.

I don't question those who get good figures from hybrids because I'm one of them, so why would I??! In fact our figures are so good that I recently bought another one!

Cyrus

so what was your average consumption over the 90000 km with the civic then?

JHMEG

Cyrus wrote: »

so what was your average consumption over the 90000 km with the civic then?

Euro spec IMAs don't have a lifetime mpg counter. I would hazard a guess that my average is between 60 and 65mpg. It goes as high as 74 and as low as 52.

JHMEG

Toyota's reaction to the Times story here:

Diesel Power Vs. Hybrid Synergy Drive: A Tie? Not Really.

There’s been a bit of Interweb buzz lately about a comparison done by London’s Sunday Times between a Toyota Prius and a diesel-powered BMW 5-Series sedan.

The two vehicles were driven from London to Geneva covering a total of about 545 miles - doubtless a fairly interesting jaunt. About 100 of those miles were urban miles where the Prius could operate in an optimal environment, and about 445 of them were suburban miles where the BMW would have the advantage.

Over this distance the Prius averaged 48.1 mpg while the BMW diesel averaged 50.3 mpg.

We hear you Prius skeptics saying, "Ahah!" Yes, the Bimmer bested the Prius by a whole 2.2 mpg.

But that’s not all there is to the story. The Times story, which you can see by clicking here, listed not only the cost of fuel for both cars, but the cost of the vehicles themselves, including their respective road-tax bills. And it is when pondering these numbers that we gain critical perspective.

In traveling from London to Geneva, the BMW’s diesel fuel bill was ₤54.19, while the bill for the Prius’s Unleaded gas was ₤54.64. At today’s rate of exchange between the dollar and the pound of about two to one, that’s $108 spent on diesel fuel and $109 spent on Unleaded.

So, OK, a difference of a buck? Call that a draw.

But this is a tie that’s easy to break. List price for that BMW 5-Series diesel in Britain is ₤27,190, and that doesn’t include a road tax of ₤115.

List in Britain for the Prius is ₤20,677. Road tax for the Prius is just ₤15.

Beyond costs, the Times failed to address the vastly superior performance of the Prius on emissions other than CO2 – you know, those things like particulates and oxides of nitrogen that cause human health issues. Here the Prius shines, with a quarter the particulate level and less than a 10th the NOx of the BMW. We believe that these lower levels are important.

So maybe we’re missing something here, but it looks to us as though, when all costs are considered, the Prius is markedly less expensive to own and operate, about even on CO2 and fuel costs, and markedly cleaner on other tailpipe emissions. We can’t really say that we’re surprised.

http://blog.toyota.com/2008/04/diesel-power-vs.html

pburns

JHMEG wrote: »

Toyota's reaction to the Times story here:

Diesel Power Vs. Hybrid Synergy Drive: A Tie? Not Really.

There’s been a bit of Interweb buzz lately about a comparison done by London’s Sunday Times between a Toyota Prius and a diesel-powered BMW 5-Series sedan.

The two vehicles were driven from London to Geneva covering a total of about 545 miles - doubtless a fairly interesting jaunt. About 100 of those miles were urban miles where the Prius could operate in an optimal environment, and about 445 of them were suburban miles where the BMW would have the advantage.

Over this distance the Prius averaged 48.1 mpg while the BMW diesel averaged 50.3 mpg.

We hear you Prius skeptics saying, "Ahah!" Yes, the Bimmer bested the Prius by a whole 2.2 mpg.

But that’s not all there is to the story. The Times story, which you can see by clicking here, listed not only the cost of fuel for both cars, but the cost of the vehicles themselves, including their respective road-tax bills. And it is when pondering these numbers that we gain critical perspective.

In traveling from London to Geneva, the BMW’s diesel fuel bill was ₤54.19, while the bill for the Prius’s Unleaded gas was ₤54.64. At today’s rate of exchange between the dollar and the pound of about two to one, that’s $108 spent on diesel fuel and $109 spent on Unleaded.

So, OK, a difference of a buck? Call that a draw.

But this is a tie that’s easy to break. List price for that BMW 5-Series diesel in Britain is ₤27,190, and that doesn’t include a road tax of ₤115.

List in Britain for the Prius is ₤20,677. Road tax for the Prius is just ₤15.

Beyond costs, the Times failed to address the vastly superior performance of the Prius on emissions other than CO2 – you know, those things like particulates and oxides of nitrogen that cause human health issues. Here the Prius shines, with a quarter the particulate level and less than a 10th the NOx of the BMW. We believe that these lower levels are important.

So maybe we’re missing something here, but it looks to us as though, when all costs are considered, the Prius is markedly less expensive to own and operate, about even on CO2 and fuel costs, and markedly cleaner on other tailpipe emissions. We can’t really say that we’re surprised.

http://blog.toyota.com/2008/04/diesel-power-vs.html

So a tinny little Prius is less expensive to own/run than a large, comfortable class-leading executive car. :rolleyes:

It's seems you've bought into all the hybrid claptrap (no doubt helped by blind devotion to the Honda badge) and are desperate to prove their merits! And you're totally over-egging the fact that the cars had different drivers...

No doubt the fact that the other car is one of Bavaria's rubs salt in the wound!

Soarer

Jaysus, what have I started! :eek:

I started this thread with what I thought was a simple enough question, but it's obviously gathered legs along the way.
I know most of the pro/cons of Petrol/Diesel/Hybrids, and tbh on the whole mpg thing between diesel/hybrid, we're talking about varying degrees of brilliance.

I'm gonna do this for comparison sake. Car to be VRT'd after July 1st. Gonna use xe.com for exact conversion. Gonna use todays OMSP to calculate July's VRT rate, and use June as the original registration date.

My current budget is around €13k-€14k.
I have my eye on a 05 Prius in the UK. It's a T-Spirit model, so it's top spec. 67k miles, FTSH, Sat Nav, etc. Asking price is £9950, so lets say £10k. That's €12690.30.
Current OMSP is €21127.
VRT in July is 14% of €21127 = €2957.78.
There's a €1750 rebate on the VRT, so VRT = €1207.78.
Total to purchase and register is €13898.08.
Roadtax will be €343 a year.

The cheapest 05 520d I can find in Autotrader.co.uk is the following:
SE Model, 120k miles, FSH, Sat Nav, etc. Asking price is £12450, so let's say £12500. That's €15870.02.
Current OMSP is €34016.
VRT in July is 24% of €34016 = €8163.84.
There's no VRT rebate.
Total to purchase and register is €24033.86
Roadtax will be €590 a year.

So that's a saving of €10135.78 buying the Prius over the 520d.

Getting back to the efficiency thing.
Prius tank is 45 litres, and the BMW tank is 70 litres.
Petrol is around 130c a litre, with diesel being around 10c a litre dearer at 140c a litre. So it's €58.50 and €98 to fill repectively.
Now I can't quite figure out how many miles I'd have to travel to make the 520 to work out better (maybe some kind sod on here can work it out), but it'd certainly be a lot more than I currently do.

So even though both cars have their pros and cons, I reckon the Prius suits my needs better. It's cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, has a higher ncap rating, and is less polluting.
Plus (as he puts on his flameproof suit) I've always liked the look of the Prius. :cool:

JHMEG

pburns wrote: »

So a tinny little Prius is less expensive to own/run than a large, comfortable class-leading executive car.

Yes the Prius is cheaper to own and run.

pburns wrote:

No doubt the fact that the other car is one of Bavaria's rubs salt in the wound!

Eh?

Soarer

pburns wrote: »

So a tinny little Prius is less expensive to own/run than a large, comfortable class-leading executive car. :rolleyes:

Well since the base model 520d is €46k and the base model Prius is €30k, you'd expect there to be more substance to it wouldn't you? I mean, people wouldn't be buying the BMW for the badge now, would they?

To be fair to JHMEG, it was E92 that, shockingly enough, started banging on about the greatness that is the 520d, and also brought up the Times' comparison test. JHMEG is perfectly entitled to question the validity of the test, especially when you see the information in his post about Toyota's reaction to said test.

JHMEG

Soarer wrote: »

Total to purchase and register is €13898.08.
Total to purchase and register is €24033.86

The €10,000 or so difference in purchase price will get you about 100,000 miles in the Prius. Case closed.

javaboy

Disclosure: My dad works for Toyota. Yes I probably am biased.

Now that that's out of they way. That 'study' E92 constantly brings up comparing the 520d to the Prius isn't worth anything.

E92 wrote:

You mean that when they turned off the aircon in the Prius and the radio, as well as leaving those things on in the BMW, where they spent 80% of the test in conditions that would favour the Toyota(there is absolutely no question that the 40% of the time spent in traffic was playing right into the hands of the Prius), and where and I quote they "had to slow down to let the Prius catch up" on the Motorway, and STILL the 520d was more frugal that it was "flawed". The only flaw is that you don't like the result!

If the result had come out that the Prius got 70mpg and the 520d got 50mpg what would happen? People would immediately say well the BMW had aircon and radio on so it's not a fair comparison. That sets off alarm bells in my head that the whole approach to the contest was biased towards making the Prius look bad. Anyone seriously interested in comparing these two cars would not be influenced by this.

I'm not arguing that the Prius does better mileage than the 520d or vice versa. I'm sure in different conditions each can be shown to be better. I just hate when people use seriously flawed studies to base their arguments on.

pburns wrote:

So a tinny little Prius is less expensive to own/run than a large, comfortable class-leading executive car.

It's seems you've bought into all the hybrid claptrap (no doubt helped by blind devotion to the Honda badge) and are desperate to prove their merits! And you're totally over-egging the fact that the cars had different drivers...

No doubt the fact that the other car is one of Bavaria's rubs salt in the wound!

Prius=tiny? You might be thinking of the Yaris maybe?

JHMEG had a Civic hybrid and was so happy with it that he bought another one. To buy one might say he bought into all the 'hybrid claptrap' but to buy a second tells me that he was impressed enough by his experience to get another one.

And I don't know about being desperate to prove their methods but as far as I can see this is a thread about a hybrid car and E92 was the first one to bring up the 520d vs Prius review. JHMEG was just pointing out that the study was seriously flawed. Which it was.

Now back on topic

Soarer

javaboy wrote: »

Now back on topic

We haven't been on topic since page one!