Prius and VRT

Soarer

Howye.

I've been doing a bit of thinking about what (safe/family/economical) car to get. Herself is expecting our first, and with all the numpties on the road, I'd like them to be as safe as possible.
Was gonna get a diesel, but the way things are going, it'll work out too expensive as we don't do big mileage.

And this morning I thought "what about a Prius?".

Personally, I don't believe in this whole "global warming" thing, but herself does so the Prius seems plausible.

Anyways, after all that rambling, my question is:
Currently you get 50% back on the VRT of a Hybrid, yeah? Which is why the 05 Prius I'm looking at, with an OMSP of €21127 and a VRT rate of 25%, is showing that the VRT payable is only €2640.
But in the new system, you no longer get 50% back, you get a flat refund of €2500, correct?
So using the same details as the example above with the OMSP is €21127, the VRT rate will be 14% (co2 of 104) as opposed to 25% currently.
That'll give a figure of €2957, less the €2500 refund, so the VRT payable will only be €457.

Is that right?

Also, is the OMSP gonna change come July? I mean, a new Prius is gonna cost more as the VRT payable on it is gonna jump up. Will this have a knock-on effect on the older ones?

JHMEG

You won't get €2,500 unless you buy a one made between 1 July 2008 to 31 December 2010.

Simple way to look at it:
Currently the VRT is 12.5%. July it'll be 14%.

Prius isn't the only show in town.
For example:
http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=3737

E92

A Toyota Aygo/Citroen C1/Peugeot 107 is practically as frugal but costs less than half the price.

Soarer

JHMEG wrote: »

You won't get €2,500 unless you buy a one made between 1 July 2008 to 31 December 2010.

Simple way to look at it:
Currently the VRT is 12.5%. July it'll be 14%.

Prius isn't the only show in town.
For example:
http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=3737

At the minute, you get a 50% rebate on newly registered cars, be they new or imports. That equates to the 12.5% you mentioned above, as the 1.5 should be 25% VRT.
Are you telling me that from July, on a new Prius I will pay 14% VRT less €2500 rebate, but on an import Prius I'll pay 14% VRT and get no rebate?
That can't be right surely?!

Soarer

E92 wrote: »

A Toyota Aygo/Citroen C1/Peugeot 107 is practically as frugal but costs less than half the price.

Not really big enough for a "family" though, are they?
Well I don't think so anyway.

JHMEG

Soarer wrote: »

Are you telling me that from July, on a new Prius I will pay 14% VRT less €2500 rebate, but on an import Prius I'll pay 14% VRT and get no rebate?

That is correct. It "encourages" people to buy new cars.

We have two Civic IMAs in the family. The VRT is 11.25% presently. I bought my one last week to make sure I get it in before VRT goes up to 14%.

JHMEG

I have been reading the gobbledegook that is the 2008 Finance Bill (persuant to subjection this that and the other), and I may be wrong on the €2500 thing.

(3) (a) Where a person first registers a category A vehicle or a category B vehicle during the period from 1 July 15 2008 to 31 December 2010 and the Commissioners are satisfied that the vehicle is—
(i) a series production hybrid electric vehicle, or
(ii) a series production flexible fuel vehicle,
then the Commissioners may remit or repay to that person up to a maximum amount of 2,500 of the vehicle registration tax payable or paid by reference to the Table to this subsection in accordance with paragraphs (a), (b) or (c) of section 132(3).
(b) In this subsection “age”, in relation to a vehicle means the time that has elapsed since the date on which the vehicle first entered into service.

Age of vehicle - Maximum amount which may be remitted or repaid
New vehicle, first registration - 2,500
Not a new vehicle but less than 2 years - 2,250
2 years or over but less than 3 years - 2,000
3 years or over but less than 4 years - 1,750
4 years or over but less than 5 years - 1,500
5 years or over but less than 6 years - 1,250
6 years or over but less than 7 years - 1,000
7 years or over but less than 8 years - 750
8 years or over but less than 9 years - 500
9 years or over but less than 10 years - 250
10 years or over - 0

Page 107 of this:
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2008/0308/B03b08d.pdf

ninty9er

Toyota have reduced the OMSP of the Prius, so a new one is now cheaper than before (I'm assuming they're factoring the rebate of €2,500 though).

It's in the Which car manufacturers will suffer after July thread

BillyGoatGruff

So just to clarify (if i may interupt this thread).

If my father buys a Civic Hybrid IMA New in July he will only pay 14% VRT and ALSO get the €2500 rebate.

Is this FACT.

JHMEG

BillyGoatGruff wrote: »

So just to clarify (if i may interupt this thread).

If my father buys a Civic Hybrid IMA New in July he will only pay 14% VRT and ALSO get the €2500 rebate.

Is this FACT.

The revenue may refund €2500. I don't know why it isn't will.

JHMEG

Ok, I just spoke to people in three VROs, and all 3 said the refund is not guaranteed, but didn't know why or what criteria as they hadn't been told. Lots of humming and hawing, with "we don't deal with hybrids too often":rolleyes:

Fcuking typical civil servants.

The only one that might know I'm told is Clonmel, as they are an enquiries office, but they close at 12:45pm:rolleyes:

Soarer

Jesus JHMEG, sorry for all this! You're like a dog with a bone!:D

That said, tis probably your own morbid curiosity that's driving you to do it!

Another thing I've been thinking of.
Are they actually going to "refund" the money, or is it just knocked off the original figure? Currently on the VRT calculator, the reduced rate of 12.5% applies so no refund is necessary.

JHMEG

Final update. One VRO came back to me and confirmed the the rebate is guaranteed, according to the table above.

JHMEG

Soarer wrote: »

Jesus JHMEG, sorry for all this! You're like a dog with a bone!:D

No worries as it's the difference for me between €1700 and €400 VRT!

I understand the wording now. It's to allow for where the VRT is less than the amount of the rebate. They won't give you money, but you could end up paying zero VRT.

BillyGoatGruff

JHMEG wrote: »

Final update. One VRO came back to me and confirmed the the rebate is guaranteed, according to the table above.

Fair play to you JHMEG. Your an asset to boards.ie

Soarer

JHMEG wrote: »

Final update. One VRO came back to me and confirmed the the rebate is guaranteed, according to the table above.

Top work JHMEG.
If that table you posted isn't sticked somewhere with the new VRT rates, it certainly should be.

pburns

Soarer wrote: »

Was gonna get a diesel, but the way things are going, it'll work out too expensive as we don't do big mileage.

And this morning I thought "what about a Prius?".

Personally, I don't believe in this whole "global warming" thing, but herself does so the Prius seems plausible.

First of all, what makes you think a diesel will be 'too expensive'? That may be the case at the moment but post-july the difference between petrol/diesel cars will be hugely reduced...

I'm a total sceptic about hybrids. Unless you're doing pretty much all your driving in urban areas they're pretty much useless - all that extra weight and complexity. Plus i think there are still question marks over disposal of batteries at end-of-life.

In the real word, in irish conditions (increased prices not-withstanding) I think diesel is a better bet.

Although i do think there will be a diesel back-lash at some stage. They may emit less CO2 but AFAIK there are other potential problems with diesel (E92 has elaborated on this elsewhere). If your wife wants to be seen as 'environmentally aware' buy a modern, efficent petrol family car and keep it going for a couple of decades...

Soarer

I didn't mean that diesel cars are too expensive, even though they are more expensive than their petrol counterparts, I meant diesel fuel is getting too expensive. As it stands, it's 10c a litre more than petrol. God only knows how much more it'll go up as demand outstrips supply.

As for disposal of batteries, I'd be hoping I'd have the car well and truly sold on by that stage!

And I know about the diesel being worse than petrol thing. I can see everyone changing to diesel and in a few years, the Greens go "actually diesel's way worse than petrol, so we're gonna double yere roadtax!". Maybe not exactly like that, but something similar.
That's why I reckon diesel is a no-no.

OTK

JHMEG wrote: »

That is correct. It "encourages" people to buy new cars.

We have two Civic IMAs in the family. The VRT is 11.25% presently. I bought my one last week to make sure I get it in before VRT goes up to 14%.

Would you not have been better importing a Civic IMA from the UK in July? My reading of the above is that the rebate will apply to imports.

JHMEG

OTK wrote: »

Would you not have been better importing a Civic IMA from the UK in July?

No date on the V5C takes care of that. I will date it to July just before I go into the VRO.

E92

A diesel may or may not match the Prius on mpg but it would be far cheaper to buy. If low running costs are that important, then why spend a fortune on a car that is even on the official figures not any more economical than the soon to arrive Ford Focus ECOnetic(and has been shown in tests to be more frugal than the Prius)? The Sunday Times found that a BMW 520d will use less fuel than the Prius when they tested it recently; the test was 20% Motorway, 40% rural driving and 40% urban driving, so I suspect that a smaller diesel would easily beat the 520d for mpg and therefore beat the Prius. When Auto Express tested the Prius against the Civic IMA, Lexus GS hybrid, VW Polo Bluemotion, Seat Ibiza Ecomotive, Skoda Fabia Greenline, Ford Focus ECOnetic and MINI Cooper Clubman D then Prius only beat the Honda and unsurprisingly the Lexus.

Though diesels are very bad for cancer causing particulates and Nitrous Oxide, which means we'll all be breathing in crappier air. Current Euro 4 limits allow diesels to pollute 5 times more than a petrol for particulates, and most petrols pollute no particulates at all.

As for the rebate well if Lexus can get the LS600h to get the €2,500 rebate(according to their July prices the hybrid price "includes €2,500 VRT rebate") then you can bet your left leg that a Civic IMA or a Prius will get one too.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

A diesel may or may not match the Prius on mpg but it would be far cheaper to buy.

1st off, what diesel specifically would be cheaper (there is no diesel Prius)? OP is talking 2nd hand, so can do we even compare in the same years? Come July rebates of up to €2,500 on VRT, which diesels won't get.

You can quote all the reviews you want that make hybrids look bad.. most of them are dubious, like the Auto Express one. Testing methodology? No mention of one, so they probably just hoored around in 3rd gear.

OTOH you can look at some of the sites that are a bit more scientific. One site I was looking at (testing methodology fully explained) shows the Civic Hybrid (the 38mpg one according to Auto Express) consistently does over 90mpg when driven at at a steady 50mph.

Cyrus

ah come one, my bmw m3 does 35-38 mpg when driven steadily at 70 mph on a straight road with no inclines aswell, but what does that prove

JHMEG

Cyrus wrote: »

ah come one, my bmw m3 does 35-38 mpg when driven steadily at 70 mph on a straight road with no inclines aswell, but what does that prove

I know for a fact that the M3 does 19mpg at best.

Soarer

Cyrus wrote: »

ah come one, my bmw m3 does 35-38 mpg when driven steadily at 70 mph on a straight road with no inclines aswell, but what does that prove

You sure it's not a 320i with an M3 badge?

Cyrus

i know for a fact what it does i drive the thing every day

and in sixth gear with cruise control on at 70 mph i get in the mid 30s mpg.

around town or when hammering it i get in the mid teens but thats not the point im making

Cyrus

Soarer wrote: »

You sure it's not a 320i with an M3 badge?

yeah positive,

altho im not sure if a fella looking to buy a prius would spot the difference ;)

JHMEG

What has your M3's fuel economy got to do with anything on this thread?

Cyrus

ok, i get it that you are annoyed that you were wrong but dont get snappy :pac:

what it has to do with it, as you well know,

is that you saying a civic hybrid will do 90mpg when driven at a constant 50mph means sweet fa if a highly tuned naturally aspirated sports car can do over 30mpg when cruising at a higher speed.

obviously on both cars mixed mpg is going to be a lot lower

OTK

E92 wrote: »

A...Ford Focus ECOnetic...a BMW 520d ... Civic IMA, Lexus GS hybrid... VW Polo Bluemotion...Seat Ibiza Ecomotive... Skoda Fabia Greenline, ...MINI Cooper Clubman D

None of these cars are in the same car class as a prius. It would more useful to compare it with other cars in the "Large Family Car" class.

E92

A Prius is no more spacious than a Focus(and it still lost to it). The 520d is a much bigger car and it still was shown by the Sunday Times that the Prius is less of a miser on the fuel.

Besides if you're really careful you can get a very high mpg figure from any car. Anywhere I've read that says that a hybrid can do all these wonderful mpg figures always involves a catch; driving slowly usually being that catch, slowing down reduces fuel consumption anyway, or else the pulse and glide thing which is IMO very dangerous to other road users(more going slowly and then rapid acceleration to get up to speed and then slowing down again), so what does that prove?

A Prius is much dearer than an Auris for a start(things are bad when I'm praising the Auris), and they are the same type of car really.