why don't we revolt ?

RobAMerc

I read in the paper that the UK government is not going to put up tax on high polluting cars as they fear a backlash from the public.

So why do the Irish government continue to rape the Irish motorist with total impunity ?

Is there no one to fight the motorists cause here ?

Would the British - French or Germans put up with almost 100% tax on some motors like we have on some high end cars here ?

Would they put up with almost €1k road tax to sit in traffic to pay a toll lke we do on the M50 ?

I doubt it !

Turner

Because we elected the greens!

No more fun for anybody.

towel401

Chief--- wrote: »

Because we elected the greens!

No more fun for anybody.

fianna fail + greens is like the worst combination ever. I just wish Tesla roadsters didn't cost 100,000 eur, if there were affordable and fast electric cars around the place that weren't **** ugly we might stand a chance at seeing the return of the days when people would drive around the place for the craic

Zube

Everyone in Ireland is a motorist (unless they are broke), since public transport is a joke.

Most people don't see why their necessary family transport should be taxed the same way as a Porsche. I'd like a Porsche, but I agree.

E92: yada yada BMW blah blah, OK?

All talk and no action or some people think someone else will say it for them. We must look like a walk over to other countries :mad:

towel401

hellboy99 wrote: »

All talk and no action or some people think someone else will say it for them. We must look like a walk over to other countries :mad:

yup. and realise that moaning to Joe Duffy gets us nowhere. the French wouldn't take any of this ****

CyberGhost

Taxes are absolutely insane in Ireland, 1K for 2.5L?

But people will not revolt because it's not burning under their butts bad enough.

Everyone is so pre-occupied with themselves and their own problems that, they will tolerate it and even it's increases.

People don't do a thing until it becomes really really bad, then it's usually too late.

It's great that in UK/Germany and even the US, people are alteast complaining, here people just accept it quietly and move on.

ART6

The problem is that we motorists don't have a loud voice and a big stick, so we are wide open to exploitation by every thicko minister who has nothing better to do. We badly need a motorists trade union that could doa SIPTU and bring the country to a stop until we are listened to, but then none of us would do what our union reps told us, would we? The alternative might be to take up arms, occupy the local post office, and throw Gorgeous Gormley and his bike into the Irish Sea:D

Anan1

To be honest, I think most people are in favour of high taxation on motoring. I know I am.

mikemac

Maybe there is a belief from a tax perspective that a car is luxury and not a neccisaty (sp?). And tbh, spending 30k plus is a luxury imo. Maybe even over 20k. You can buy a car for less than €5,000 easily. But people can spend their money how they like so that's fine

After all, it often happened that many families didn't have a car.
Whatever happened to hitchhiking, I don't see it anymore

And now I'm reading daily rants about "my neighbour owns 4 cars and parks outside my house".
Many families now have two cars at least.

Zube thinks everyone in Ireland is a motorist. Maybe tax was based on high tax for few cars but after car ownership exploded, it's high tax on all cars.
It's impossible for the Revenue to give that money up

ambro25

+1 @ Anan1, tax the congestion problem away.

Make it uneconomical for the garden variety motorist to use their car, so the filthy rich like me can enjoy a free-flowing road network again

You can't have some of the lowest income and corporate taxation in Europe and some of the lowest personal transport taxation as well, the tax €s have to come from somewhere.

Look at Luxembourg, which is the 'previous' Tiger (i.e. what happened in IE with the Celtic Tiger thing, had happened in Lux years before): same mix of issues as Ireland, they went for the other way around: higher income and corporate taxation, much lower personal transport taxation. Just as many Beemers, Mercs and Porsches, just as bad to get in/out of Lux City at rush hour :pac:

craichoe

CyberGhost wrote: »

Taxes are absolutely insane in Ireland, 1K for 2.5L?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

1280 for a 1.9 Litre Diesel here in the Netherlands
Above that your looking at BIG money.

Import tax here is mental aswell

I.S.T.

ART6 wrote: »

The problem is that we motorists don't have a loud voice and a big stick, so we are wide open to exploitation by every thicko minister who has nothing better to do. We badly need a motorists trade union that could doa SIPTU and bring the country to a stop until we are listened to, but then none of us would do what our union reps told us, would we? The alternative might be to take up arms, occupy the local post office, and throw Gorgeous Gormley and his bike into the Irish Sea:D

It wouldn't be that difficult to set up a protest. Someone needs to book a hotel room and call a meeting. Get a comittee together at the meeting and decide a day to do a car protest. You would need to do too much work promoting it as the media would be all over you. Look at the guys from IrelandOffline for an example of how to get something done if you really want it.

peasant

Why don't "we" revolt?

Because there is no "we" as far as the motoring public is concerned.
Just because "we" all drive cars doesn't make "us" of the same opinion.

Slig

meh, its to easy just to whinge on the interweb than actually do anything about it and believe me nobody will!

Mc-BigE

Ok, so, OP , what kind of protest are you thinking about?

driving to the centre of every city in Ireland and parking your car on the road?

or if your in Dublin park your car for the day outside the gates of Dáil Éireann?

or don't pay motor tax?

everyone buy UK cars and don't register them.

everyone drive around with green diesel /vegable oil in their diesel cars?

all the above suggestions will cost you money or jail time

any other legal suggestions?

caractacus

This text message is going around

" French, Portuguese, and Italian Fishermen blockade ports to bring down VAT on fuel. Brit truckers start go-slow campaign to bring down VAT on fuel. Governments cant do it cos the EU wont let them. French President Sarkozy has called on EU to allow VAT to be cut on fuel. Send Brussels a message on JUNE 12th VOTE NO TO LISBON..VOTE FOR A EU WIDE CUT IN FUEL VAT!- PASS THIS MESSAGE ON TO THREE OTHERS '

PASS IT ON ....IF WE ALL SEND IT TO THREE OTHERS WE CAN MAKE BRUSSELS SIT UP AND TAKE NOTICE OF US FOR ONCE:)

E92

People don't really care at the end of the day.

In Britain they are much more into cars than we are, and that's why you have politicians wanting to get rid of congestion charges, raising speed limits on Motorways, even getting rid of speed cameras.

That you can be guaranteed will NEVER happen here.

I.S.T.

Mc-BigE wrote: »

Ok, so, OP , what kind of protest are you thinking about?

driving to the centre of every city in Ireland and parking your car on the road?

or if your in Dublin park your car for the day outside the gates of Dáil Éireann?

or don't pay motor tax?

everyone buy UK cars and don't register them.

everyone drive around with green diesel /vegable oil in their diesel cars?

all the above suggestions will cost you money or jail time

any other legal suggestions?

A organised big group of cars driving through the centre of the city at 30kmh is not illegal

caractacus

Seems to me E92 that you just want us to do nothing....well if we do nothing then nothing will change....I repeat all car enthusiasts should deliver a message to the EU by VOTING NO TO LISBON....SEND THE TXT MSG ' VOTE NO TO LISBON TO FORCE EU TO ALLOW A CUT IN FUEL DUTY' .....PASS IT ON LADS... E92 your way definitely nothing will happen...this form of protest here in Ireland ... with the Fishermens blockade in France , Portugal, and Italy, over HIGH FUEL DUTIES and the British truckers go slows...will be sending them EU bureaucrats a message they cant ignore

E92

I'm just a realist.

The Government JUST DON'T CARE, but hey, we were the people that put them in 3 times in a row, so you reap what you sow....

mike65

caractacus you are pimping. Not nice.

I was going to start a thread on this, as was mentioned it hasn't happened. Here someone who apparently has contacts in the civil service mentioned scrapping the Classic car tax/VRT regime had been bought up but again the government is apparently warey, probably not wanting to be seen to attack low milage enthusiasts.

Mike.

Slig

In the democratic system the government are meant to represent the people!!
this clearly does not happen here as demonstrated by
1) the toll on the m50,
2) VRT on importing cars and
3) our third world health system.
When France were unhappy with their polotical system they made it known.
(but then again our track record with following frances Revolutionary example isnt that great:D)

Biro

RobAMerc wrote: »

I read in the paper that the UK government is not going to put up tax on high polluting cars as they fear a backlash from the public.

So why do the Irish government continue to rape the Irish motorist with total impunity ?

Is there no one to fight the motorists cause here ?

Would the British - French or Germans put up with almost 100% tax on some motors like we have on some high end cars here ?

Would they put up with almost €1k road tax to sit in traffic to pay a toll lke we do on the M50 ?

I doubt it !

The reason is that the UK government are back-dating the tax, so people already with high emission cars are going to get stung. That's not happening here, so you can't compare there to here.

Biro

Slig wrote: »

In the democratic system the government are meant to represent the people!!
this clearly does not happen here as demonstrated by
1) the toll on the m50,
2) VRT on importing ALL cars and
3) our third world health system.
When France were unhappy with their polotical system they made it known.
(but then again our track record with following frances Revolutionary example isnt that great:D)

Fixed!

WHITE_P

Never heard of then till I found a flyer in my door the other day from them. Having read through it, they seem to be on the same wavelenght as most people who aren't super rich or sponging off the state, and couldn't care about the cost of anything and everything.

While it will be a few years before we get another chance to vote, maybe the threat of loosing to a new party might be enopugh to get FF and the Greens to consider what the ordinary decent person on the street is actually concerned about.

Personally I think their policies on transport and motoring (among other things) seem fair. I certainly hope they can get enough support to pose a real challenge to the existing greedy gits that are in power, and that they stay true to these policies.

http://www.prioritiesparty.com/

E92

They are opportunists. They'll never achieve any of this. Another false dawn like the PDs.

The only way to remove FF is to vote FG. Anyone else may or may not go into bad with FF, whereas FG would rather have pins in their eyes than have anything to do with FF(or the Shinners).

FG have what no other party in this country has: backbone.

Cyrus

craichoe wrote: »

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

1280 for a 1.9 Litre Diesel here in the Netherlands
Above that your looking at BIG money.

Import tax here is mental aswell

mentaller than here

quarryman

anyone have a comparison of motor tax rates across the EU?

couldn't find anything with google.

zzzzzzzz

E92 wrote: »

They are opportunists. They'll never achieve any of this. Another false dawn like the PDs.

The only way to remove FF is to vote FG. Anyone else may or may not go into bad with FF, whereas FG would rather have pins in their eyes than have anything to do with FF(or the Shinners).

FG have what no other party in this country has: backbone.

2 words: Enda Kenny

There is no way I would ever have anything to do with putting that muppet in charge of the nation.

E92

And Brian Cowen is such a wonderful Taoiseach that he ran away from health because it was "Angola"....

All he has done so far is antagonise FG, but let him keep doing that all he wants, people don't like bullies...

Enda Kenny's contribution to FG is nothing short of outstanding. Yes he does come across as very wooden at times, but the only people I hear going Enda bashing are the people that would never vote FG in the first place.

If he achieved a fifth for the country of what he achieved with FG then this country would be a much better place.

But if people are happy with incompetancy, optics, soundbites etc then that's their choice.

IrishRover

WHITE_P wrote: »

Having read through it, they seem to be on the same wavelenght as most people who aren't super rich or sponging off the state, and couldn't care about the cost of anything and everything.
http://www.prioritiesparty.com/

I read through the manifesto on their website and it was all going well until I read this:
"Smoking should also be eliminated in public where possible; an in-door ban is not enough."

Like you were saying, up until that point it all read as being reasonable and common sense points that they were making. I couldn't vote for them now, and even if they removed this from their manifesto I still couldn't, as it reveals to me that they are the kind of "fascist-lefties" who I definitely don't want to have any control over decisions that affect me - as much as I hate the greedy thicks who are in power at the moment.

WHITE_P

IrishRover wrote: »

I read through the manifesto on their website and it was all going well until I read this:
"Smoking should also be eliminated in public where possible; an in-door ban is not enough."

Like you were saying, up until that point it all read as being reasonable and common sense points that they were making. I couldn't vote for them now, and even if they removed this from their manifesto I still couldn't, as it reveals to me that they are the kind of "fascist-lefties" who I definitely don't want to have any control over decisions that affect me - as much as I hate the greedy thicks who are in power at the moment.

Well you can't please all the people all the time.

WHITE_P

E92 wrote: »

And Brian Cowen is such a wonderful Taoiseach that he ran away from health because it was "Angola"....

All he has done so far is antagonise FG, but let him keep doing that all he wants, people don't like bullies...

Enda Kenny's contribution to FG is nothing short of outstanding. Yes he does come across as very wooden at times, but the only people I hear going Enda bashing are the people that would never vote FG in the first place.

If he achieved a fifth for the country of what he achieved with FG then this country would be a much better place.

But if people are happy with incompetancy, optics, soundbites etc then that's their choice.

I don't want to get into a political argument here, but Edna Kenny did himself and FG no favours by constantly attacking the current governments policies, while not offering any real alternative's, and I didn't vote for the current bunch either and was really p!ssed off to see them get back in. glad to see Bertie finally gone though, as I think the celeb. notions he had of himself, went to his head.

E92

Anything that reduces the opportunities for smokers to pollute themselves has to be welcomed. I must admit I like that party a bit more now having heard that.

I'm normally the last person to stand up for FF but the smoking ban was easily the best thing to happen this country in this decade.

peasant

Is this thread going anywhere?

Possibly anywhere near topic?

E92

WHITE_P wrote: »

I don't want to get into a political argument here, but Edna Kenny did himself and FG no favours by constantly attacking the current governments policies, while not offering any real alternative's, and I didn't vote for the current bunch either and was really p!ssed off to see them get back in. glad to see Bertie finally gone though, as I think the celeb. notions he had of himself, went to his head.

I think they did offer plenty of different policies. But any of the good ones were "borrowed" by FF. It was only after the election that I realised that the front bench before was for the most part useless. They do have people with substance now though.

There are times when they make me cringe, like the way they are doing all the donkey work on Lisbon. They're not cute like FF are, and that costs them votes at every opportunity. Were FF out of Government they would officially be campaigning for a yes vote but privately they would ask people to vote no.

They are far from perfect, but they're the only ones that I have any faith whatsoever in.

Anyway, I'm gone so far off topic, this is a Motors forum after all, so time to get back to cars:D!

As I said earlier, a revolt wouldn't achieve anything not least because most people are annoyed but that's about it. WE don't really do protests in this country.

zzzzzzzz

E92 wrote: »

Were FF out of Government they would officially be campaigning for a yes vote but privately they would ask people to vote no.

What?

I'm of the opinion that most of us Irish are stupid and lazy (apologies in advance if I offended anyone). There seems to be this attitude with most people that they either vent off their frustration on a forum such as this and it goes no further or they just think that someone else will say it for them.

You hear many now complaining about government, well the people have themselves to blame, you voted FF back in. FF of all people know how much of a walk over the people of this country are, look what they get away with.

The French wouldn't take whats going on, it's already started in the UK yesterday with truckers protesting, so will it happen here ? somehow i can't see it :mad:

RobAMerc

I think a go slow down one of our motorways would be a start . or a simultaneous sounding of horns around the country.

The truckers would be all in favor if we cited taxes and tolls vs quality of road network as the reason for it.

there no need for the muppets in government to actually hear them - news coverage should sort it.

I HATE motoring in this country - Ireland is robbing me of my one true love - and I am starting to hate the place for it.

ambro25

You'd be surprised how little resources and preparation you would need to paralyse Dublin traffic at rush hour, so unfit is the infrastructure at present.

4 or 5 cars on N11 Northbound into Dublin, 4 or 5 cars on each side of M50 near toll, 4 or 5 cars on M1 Southbound into Dublin, all go-slow simultaneously at 07:30/07:45 for about 2kms or, even better, simulate a traffic bump and discussion at side of road (use rubberneckers' built-in go-slow functionality ). Then they can resume normal speeds.

Hey presto, butterfly effect ('caterpillar' effect really) ensures the little traffic bulge will ripple out of proportion for at least a couple of hours and cause all sorts of mayhem.

Be better/easier with artics, of course. Easy when you know how. :cool:

Slig

Maybe wrong but would that not be attacking the wrong side? commuters being late for work, deliveries not reaching their destination on time..
I dont think the government would be too inconvenienced (Dail doesnt sit until midday does it?) and they would probably get a garda escort anyways

RobAMerc

i think everyone simultaneously blowing their horn at rush hour or something would work. No one gets hurt, everyone could join in if its well advertised ( via the news )and it would get plenty of attention.

The threat of escalating the action if nothing is done could also be used.

Causing chaos on the M50 would be a bit localized and joe punter would suffer most imo.

leinster house Muppets wouldn't care less unless they were held up in the Merc for a few minutes.

I.S.T.

Slig wrote: »

Maybe wrong but would that not be attacking the wrong side? commuters being late for work, deliveries not reaching their destination on time..

That's why the train drivers never get what they want...oh wait...they do

ambro25

Well, excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but how exactly do you expect any 'go slow' protest (or any type of protest for that matter) to not affect commuting joe bloggs :eek: :rolleyes:

Do a go slow at 02:00 AM?
If you don't cause aggro for the GVT, how exactly do you expect the GVT to do anything?
Out of the goodness in their collective heart?
How do you cause aggro for the GVT, without going to jail (for not paying tax, VAT, etc. as an illegal way of protest)?
Blowing your horn? So everybody blows their horn, RTE talks about it for 30 secs on the news... and on day 3, noone does it anymore as they feel too self-conscious (this is Ireland).

Do you want to protest? Or daydream at protesting?

Lord Nikon

The problem with protesting en-masse with strangers is it's near impossible to organise.

Farmers have unions and truck drivers, taxi drivers, train drivers, pilots and nurses. These are the people who get noticed when their **** hits the fan, because they have organisation and easier to pass on the word and make it happen within their own groups(which are huge).

The general public is not a union, and while most will spout about how bad something is, there is little anyone can do.

Lets just hope the unions(the driving type) in this country have something to say, and they usually do too, and they cause mayhem alot of the time. Do you think the truck-drivers are happy paying the todays fuel prices, doubt it.

I.S.T.

The protest seems to be having an effect in the UK

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/article4018588.ece

Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling were set to meet oil industry leaders in Scotland today as they came under growing pressure to curb soaring fuel prices.

Pressure is mounting on the Prime Minister and the Chancellor, both from their own Labour backbenchers and from the public. Yesterday road hauliers mounted high profile protests in London and South Wales, with hundreds of lorry drivers demanding cuts in the duty on diesel to help save the British haulage industry...

G Luxel

Everyone has to work and they cant afford to take days off to go on protests. Anyway most protests comprise of getting on a bus to dublin, going for a pint, then stay maybe two hours at max shouting on a march and also falling asleep when listening to someone on a podium complaining, then when its finished everyone is off to the pub again for more pints and then home on the bus.

just remembered, where is conor faughan these days of aa roadwatch, havent heard anything from him or maybe hes been muzzled by the government or by some vested interests?

rebel.ranter

RobAMerc wrote: »

I think a go slow down one of our motorways would be a start .

Would it be even noticed on the M50?

JHMEG

IrishRover wrote: »

I read through the manifesto on their website and it was all going well until I read this:
"Smoking should also be eliminated in public where possible; an in-door ban is not enough."

Like you were saying, up until that point it all read as being reasonable and common sense points that they were making.

Out of curiosity, are you a smoker?