N22 - Macroom to Ballyvourney (Macroom Bypass) [open to traffic]

imangry29

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Sweetman will be one of the 'witnesses' in the Judicial Review which is being lead by one Eileen Stack Shanahan who lives near the Macroom Bypass route.

Ms Stack Shanahan whose basis for objection is outlined in the letter shown some way down this thread: http://www.archiseek.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=5046&start=725.

Amtmann

imangry29 wrote: »

Ms Stack Shanahan whose basis for objection is outlined in the letter shown some way down this thread: http://www.archiseek.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=5046&start=725.

After reading her mawkish letter, I wouldn't be too worried.

Chris_5339762

This is one scheme that needs to be pushed. Its unbelievably curvy - has to be seen to be believed. Its hard to average 60kmh on the whole route.

MrDerp

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

This is one scheme that needs to be pushed. Its unbelievably curvy - has to be seen to be believed. Its hard to average 60kmh on the whole route.

It really is appalling. I have yet to drive a worse N road (admittedly, I haven't driven a lot of roads in Ireland), and only a few R roads I know match the section you're talking about.

AugustusMinimus

The twisty section between Macroom and Ballyvourney does make for some good driving though. Only if the road ahead is free though.

Impossible to pass anyone on that section.

imangry29

"This Ard Fheis calls on the Fine Gael/Labour Party Government to provide immediate funding for the construction of the Macroom bypass on the N22 national route as a stand-alone project.
Leo Murphy/Tom Barry Cumann
Cork North West"
http://www.sinnfein.ie/ard-fheis-2012-motions

Possibly the first half-sensible thing I've heard out of Sinn Fein. Ever. In the bigger picture tho, why not look at the longer schemes left on the shelf and maybe split them up in to less costly chunks? Prioritise the bypass elements at least and give us some relief? It would of course create a hellish bit around Ballyvourney that people would speed into from both sides. It also does run the risk that crucial elements like Macroom Bypass - County Bounds would be left to the next century, not to mind the next decade. #EIBstimuluswishlist :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

Tthe Sweetman/Stack Shanahan judicial review is in court on the 10th of July I believe.

spacetweek

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Tthe Sweetman/Stack Shanahan judicial review is in court on the 10th of July I believe.

Sweetman is challenging this one too? :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

He produced an affadavit for Stack Shanahan.

dubhthach

200 metres from the Castle? Where were these people when N18 dual carriageway was built past Bunratty, or widen as was case in front of Cratloe Castle.

When the structure was built it was done so as a defensive location not to invoke thoughts such as these:

one forever will be the evocative picture of the castle where, in the mist, you can imagine the flying flags of the Irish regiments and soldiers marching on foot. The evocative atmosphere at Carrigaphooca Castle, stone circle and manor house is a tangible reminder of these Irish brigades. The NRA is proposing now to obliterate the entire setting of the castle, the remnants of its bawn and its associated manor house by placing a four-lane highway and two flyovers less than 200 metres from the castle door.

Chris_5339762

Having the N18 so close to Bunratty castle is ridiculous, you have to admit. It ruins the place.

Irish and Proud

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Having the N18 so close to Bunratty castle is ridiculous, you have to admit. It ruins the place.

...but the former N18 is even closer and is IMO more culpable with it's concrete bridge right up against the old stone bridge.

imangry29

http://highcourtsearch.courts.ie/hcslive/court_lists.show?sessionID=1336701148&yearNo=2011&recordNo=431&processType=JR

6 days of Judicial Review hearing complete, judgement reserved until 30th October. Pity this was not resolved before the stimulus announced (although the big 3 announced by Howlin were always going to go before this anyway). IMO this should also go ahead before Galway Outer Bypass though it seems that comes first...

At around €200 million (and for just 22km!!) - this bypass would make Tralee-Killarney-Cork-Waterford-Rosslare a fairly decent route once and for all (esp New Ross bypass in the mix), not to mention safe. Cork Airport - Lakes of Killarney in approx. 1 hour has a nice ring to it. Is a bit of joined up thinking between Transport and Tourism a little too much to ask? They are in the one Dept now after all...

AugustusMinimus

Thing is, if you are going from Waterford to Killarney, you'd take the N72 between Dungarvan and Killarney. This new road really only favours journeys between Killarney and Cork and prob as far as Youghal.

Would be nice to see the N72 between Fermoy and Mallow done because it's an absolute disgrace at the moment.

imangry29

True, although N72 Mallow-Killarney is a shockingly dangerous route. At least N22 is (officially) a national primary, although you wouldn't know it driving it! Once the Bandon and Sarsfield flyovers, Dunkettle and Macroom-Ballyv done, it will be interesting to compare journey times N22 vs. N72 on the longer distances like Kerry-Waterford. For tourism, the N22 links (or exits) to all the main tourist spots in the South. Think its a better sell esp to foreigners who ain't too comfortable on our smaller roads. Getting N22 (and N25) right can only be to the major benefit of Cork Airport, getting bums on planes and into the country spending. Not that tourism should be the main reason for building the road.... the treachorous state of Ballyvourney - Macroom does enough talking.

AugustusMinimus

HQDC to the far side of Macroom would be fantastic. 120kph speed limit ideally.

What sort of road will be built for the Macroom to Ballyvourney section ? Wide single lane with the occassional climbing lane ?

imangry29

I think they're going for HQDC over the full length! My memory of reading ABP inspector report was that he favoured it for macroom bypass but thought it was unnecessary for stretch to Ballyvourney. Then the board decided in favour of the NRA/ CCC move for full HQDC. I'm open to correction on that tho.

Sponge Bob

I think HQDC is appropriate east of and around Macroom (and to 2 or 3km west of it ).

I do feel 2+2 is the best solution west of there, honest!

imangry29

Nice to see some form of media coverage... well done The Corkman!

26 JULY 2012
http://www.corkman.ie/news/judicial-review-of-n22-dual-carriageway-plan-road-would-decimate-microcosm-of-history-3183191.html

2 AUGUST 2012
http://www.corkman.ie/news/order-sought-to-quash-bord-decision-on-n22-bypass-3191201.html

Sounds like a right hum-dinger!

niloc1951

To me it looks like the same old attitude from the Councils NRA etc. that they want to do what they want and while they engage in public consultations it is only for window dressing.
It seems to have the same flavour as the infamous 'bottomless bog' saga on the M7 route.

It begs the question, how many more projects have been steam-rolled (excuse the pun) through with disregard for public opinion and/or our heritage and environment but have been routed to facilitate the political and financial aspirations of the public servants/representatives involved.

BTW, notwithstanding the above it is an absolute disgrace that the section of the N22 in question has not been bypassed/upgraded many years ago.

Irish and Proud

imangry29 wrote: »

Nice to see some form of media coverage... well done The Corkman!

26 JULY 2012
http://www.corkman.ie/news/judicial-review-of-n22-dual-carriageway-plan-road-would-decimate-microcosm-of-history-3183191.html

2 AUGUST 2012
http://www.corkman.ie/news/order-sought-to-quash-bord-decision-on-n22-bypass-3191201.html

Sounds like a right hum-dinger!

The inspector recommended refusal AFAIK and ABP ignored him? I didn't get to read much of the article, but if this is what the case centers on and the appeal is successful, then that potentially re-opens the case surrounding the Slane Bypass - the inspector recommended approval for that road and ABP decided to refuse. It works both ways! :cool:

imangry29

It wasn't straight forward refusal. The Inspector recommended go ahead for full HQDC bypass of Macroom but to stop it west of the town. Inspector recommended refusal of section from Macroom to Kerry (bypassing Ballyvourney and Ballymakeera) citing decrease in traffic volumes (i.e. could HQDC be justified after Macroom) as well as concerns regarding visual amenity of the route as proposed.

The Board (IMHO correctly) decided that the full route should go ahead. The Board's report strongly counters arguments made by the Inspector. A Macroom Bypass on its own would leave one of the most treachorous and narrow sections of national primary road intact through Ballyvourney, while average speeds are increased on the approach from the east. For those that know the road, imagine coming off a HQDC around Macroom (prob travelling at 120km/hr a la Ballincollig Bypass??) and returning to the twisting ribbon of road that follows! Even if a reduced upgrade was to follow after the bypass section, the inherent problems with that are already on display where the Ballincollig bypass terminates at the west. The Board identified the importance of the route between Cork and Tralee/Killarney. The National Spatial Strategy has some merit in trying to plan the future development of the country. Ensuring consistent high quality links between Gateways and hubs should be the focus of the limited capital spend on new roads. To suggest a fantastic new bypass for Macroom but to leave the adjoining stretch fit for donkeys and carts, as it is, would by typical Irish short-sightedness. The country will one day be out of recession. The new road has to cater for the capacity of decades and possibly generations to come. The public transport option of rail (indirectly via Mallow) will also never compete.

I don't think the road is being bulldozed through. On the contrary, the upgrade for one of the least safe roads in Ireland has been the subject of prolonged public scrutiny since 2001 (Constraints Report published) through the County Council, An Bord Pleanala and judicial review. The route has already been shifted to cater for the Kerry Slug. In most other countries, a primary route like this would have been "bulldozed" through long ago. Tralee - Killarney - County Bounds is mostly a good road. Ballincollig Bypass - N40 flyovers to Dunkettle is soon to be a very good road. Let's just clear this 22km nightmare in the middle once and for all. It will still leave room for improvement east of Macroom to Lissarda.

holdfast

What is the current situation, I have read the last few replies. But I cannot understand if the road proposal overcome the objections ? If so what would be the next stage ?

Sponge Bob

The Judge Reserved Judgement in July and us due to give us her judgement by late October.

irishshadowfax

Surely people will start asking questions again with the current road works...road rage is hitting new levels in the evening passing through Macroom, what a****hole, no longer needs a bypass, it needs to be bulldozed...

tinner777

irishshadowfax wrote: »

Surely people will start asking questions again with the current road works...road rage is hitting new levels in the evening passing through Macroom, what a****hole, no longer needs a bypass, it needs to be bulldozed...

lol, and then stuck behind some clown going 70kph all the way from macroom to ballincollig with a line of traffic behind him :mad:

imangry29

Judgement on Judicial Review pushed back to 12th November.

http://highcourtsearch.courts.ie/hcslive/court_lists.show?sessionID=371787688&yearNo=2011&recordNo=431&processType=JR

Anyone up to speed on the legal mumbo jumbo of abbreviations that appear in the right hand column entitled "Note" on the page linked above? Hopefully JDT actually stands for Judgement?

irishshadowfax

imangry29 wrote: »

Judgement on Judicial Review pushed back to 12th November.

http://highcourtsearch.courts.ie/hcslive/court_lists.show?sessionID=371787688&yearNo=2011&recordNo=431&processType=JR

Anyone up to speed on the legal mumbo jumbo of abbreviations that appear in the right hand column entitled "Note" on the page linked above? Hopefully JDT actually stands for Judgement?

Hi imangry, the link brings up "Expired Session"... It's hard to see money being ploughed into the road at the moment because that could all be put towards the bypass... I can't believe they let Bord Gais dig up the whole town when 1) there is already roadworks between ****croom and Ballyvourney and 2) no one is opting for Gas right now...

Bottom line is the towns people and businesses despite all their talk do not want a bypass, who would ever go near the place unless they broke down...

irishshadowfax

Has there been any updates from the judgment which was pushed back to 12th November?

I cannot find any info on courts.ie or on any media outlets. It's difficult to comprehend the lack of coverage this matter is receiving for such a major project. Fair play to the Corkman.ie for the two detailed articles during the year. Last coverage on the N22 from the inept 'Irish' Examiner was April 2011...

Sponge Bob

Looks like the 10th of December now. It may be related to the Galway Bypass 'advocates' 'opinion' due this week I think.