UFC 84 "Ill Will" Discussion Thread,

SuperWoody101

Main Card
Lightweight Championship bout: B.J. Penn vs. Sean Sherk
Light Heavyweight bout: Tito Ortiz vs. Lyoto Machida
Light Heavyweight bout: Wanderlei Silva vs. Keith Jardine
Light Heavyweight bout: Thiago Silva vs. Antonio Mendes
Light Heavyweight bout: Wilson Gouveia vs. Goran Reljic

Preliminary Card
Light Heavyweight bout: Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou vs. Kazuhiro Nakamura
Welterweight bout: Jon Koppenhaver vs Yoshiyuki Yoshida
Lightweight bout: Rich Clementi vs Terry Etim
Middleweight bout: Rousimar Palhares vs Ivan Salaverry
Welterweight bout: Jason Tan vs Dong Hyun Kim
Heavyweight bout: Christian Wellisch vs Shane Carwin

David Jones

Great card, not only will BJ Penn hopefully submit or ko sherk but two of Next Generation UK guys are on the card, Jason Tan, Brown Belt under Chris Brennan and Terry Etim, good thai boxer and blue belt under Chris Brennan.

SickBoy

Where was Tito Ortiz for the last few years?
I thought he had retired or something....

SuperWoody101

SickBoy wrote: »

Where was Tito Ortiz for the last few years?
I thought he had retired or something....

This will be his last match for the UFC. I think BJ will win by tap out in Round 2 and I would like to see Silva KO Jardine in round 1.

shantor

I thought Machida was great in the fight against the african dude, he looked a bit fragile against the brutish looking fellow entering the ring, but controlled & finished him really well.. always thought Tito was a boring fighter though, so maybe they will stand off each other

LukerC

Hope to see some classic tito for his last UFC. Victory by mauling. Just hope he doesn't decide to stand with Machida.

Roper

I think Machida will have him no matter where it goes. Future title holder methinks.

Kazooie

Penn via sub round 2.
Machida via decision (though Tito will get him down once or twice).
Wandy via TKO(Knees) Round 2. Really hope he wins!

Wonder if Tito will get an after fight interview with Rogan. God knows what he would say about Dana and the UFC!

Charlie3dan

Kazooie wrote: »

Wonder if Tito will get an after fight interview with Rogan. God knows what he would say about Dana and the UFC!

Speaking of which, here what Tito's been saying lately:

http://mmarated.com/blogs/blog/20080514/ortiz___i_plan_on_fighting_for_three_more_years_-146.html

"TO: You know what it really comes down to is just (UFC president) Dana White. If he learns to shut his mouth and learns to respect me there is a possibility yet. (He needs to) give a public apology for the things that he has done. That is just what it really comes down to, but I want to go with a company that is going to respect me and see me as the champion I am and the ambassador that I am of the sport and not really downplay me or disrespect me on television or anything else."



I'm also predicting wins for Penn, Machida, Silva......but I wouldn't mind a crazy upset in there somewhere

shantor

http://84.ufc.com/

stunning website

cowzerp

SuperWoody101 wrote: »

Main Card
Lightweight Championship bout: B.J. Penn vs. Sean Sherk
Light Heavyweight bout: Tito Ortiz vs. Lyoto Machida
Light Heavyweight bout: Wanderlei Silva vs. Keith Jardine

Really hope BJ wins this 1, sherk is boring and a cheat.

Tito is a legend of the ufc and the sport, he will want to go out of ufc in style, hope he does.

Silva is class but i would not write Jardine off, could be an upset! jardine for me.

Kent Brockman

Should be good.
Hope Bj wins .Not crazy about Sherks style of fighting, although he is very good at it (eg v Ken flo).
Always a fan of Tito (except when he tries to be a dick head;) ) Oh yeah and when he starts talking about 'Our boys in Afghanistan... etc). Just saw Machidas last fight-Very Impressive and Im sure he will have his day, so hoping for a great fight with a Tito win.

Think Wands little T-rex arms mean he will get out-Punched (didnt compare reaches or anything but thats just it seems to me:D)
Dont really care about results of rest as long as the scraps are good!

Fozzy

I'm really looking forward to BJ vs Sherk. 100% behind BJ, I'd love to see him win

Tito's been going on about how he's got no injuries now and he's got his cardio back up, but I still don't think that's going to be enough to beat Machida

Wanderlei could go the easy route and try get Jardine down and submit him, but there's no way he's going to. He wants to put on a good show so they'll be swinging for most of the fight I'm sure, but I think Jardine will be getting knocked out. This one could be real good

Rich Clementi fought on the last UFC event, it must be a while since a fighter has fought on two events in a row like that

FiannaGym.com

I want,

BJ by leg lock, round 2.
Tito by stoppage in round one.
Wand to Win, but I really want my good friend MaGov, technoviking to win too.
Having seen Jardine's clinch in the past I'm less than impressed with it BUT he could beat Wand.

Jones, if you know Jason Tan you must know Paul Rimmer?

Peace

Fozzy

I forgot to mention in my earlier post, look out for Shane Carwin if his fight airs on tv. The UFC are hoping for big things from him

Pride Fighter

WTF, Nakamura vs Sokodjou is on the undercard. I really want to see this one. I think Nakamura will win by UD, although Sokodjou has really heavy hands and could KO him.

Fozzy

Pride Fighter wrote: »

WTF, Nakamura vs Sokodjou is on the undercard. I really want to see this one. I think Nakamura will win by UD, although Sokodjou has really heavy hands and could KO him.

They both lost their last fights. Obviously the three top fights have to be on the main card. Then there's Thiago Silva, who's unbeaten and most recently knocked out Houston Alexander when he was seen as a big deal by UFC fans. And the other fight has a fighter undefeated in his last four UFC fights versus a guy who's unbeaten and who they apparently hope can make an impact on the light-heavyweight division

Take into account that Sokoudjou and Nakamura didn't fight very exciting fights on their last time out and it makes sense that they're on the undercard

Pride Fighter

Fozzy wrote: »

They both lost their last fights. Obviously the three top fights have to be on the main card. Then there's Thiago Silva, who's unbeaten and most recently knocked out Houston Alexander when he was seen as a big deal by UFC fans. And the other fight has a fighter undefeated in his last four UFC fights versus a guy who's unbeaten and who they apparently hope can make an impact on the light-heavyweight division

Take into account that Sokoudjou and Nakamura didn't fight very exciting fights on their last time out and it makes sense that they're on the undercard

Its not their fault they fought Lyoto "Unanimous Decision" Machida. I know he subbed Sokodjou but he is boring as hell. I want Ortiz to get the win, have a t-shirt ready with the words Gay-na White is my bitch, stick his fingers up to White and leave the UFC to fight in Dream or Affliction.

Fozzy

I don't know about Tito fighting in Japan. I haven't heard him mention it and he's a much bigger name in the US than in Japan. Affliction mightn't last long enough for Tito to fight there

Pride Fighter

Fozzy wrote: »

I don't know about Tito fighting in Japan. I haven't heard him mention it and he's a much bigger name in the US than in Japan. Affliction mightn't last long enough for Tito to fight there

I'd say your right about Affliction. Paying Tim Sylvia $800,000 to fight Fedor is bad business IMO. I think they will be another WFA.

Fozzy

The amount of money they're paying Fedor wouldn't even be covered if they got the same number of PPV buys as PRIDE did with Fedor in the US. And I don't think they're going to even get that many

I think Tito will be back in the UFC before the end of 2009 if EXC's tv deal doesn't work out. There'll be nowhere else for him to go and he craves the attention that the UFC can give him

Charlie3dan

Not sure if it's ok to keep posting stuff from other sites but had to share this, back to the Tito saga, here's what Dana had to say in reply:

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/05/15/dana-white-calls-tito-ortiz-a-f-ing-idiot-one-of-the-dumbest/


“Tito is a f—ing idiot,” White said. “He’s one of the dumbest human beings I’ve ever met. Everything that comes out of his mouth makes no sense.”

White added that he doesn’t think UFC needs Ortiz because he doesn’t think Ortiz can beat any of UFC’s top fighters.

“I put up with his s— when he was a good fighter,” White said. “He’s not anymore.”

“He’s not in anybody’s Top 10,” White said. “I have no interest whatsoever in being in the Tito Ortiz business. … I’ve never wanted to see anyone get their ass kicked worse than I want to see Tito get his kicked next Saturday night.”

......must add some fuel to Tito's fire though

dunkamania

apparently pay levels for affliction fighters have been grossly exagerated

Sylvia is not getting near 800k and Fedor is well below 1.5m.

i would be inclined to believe this

Roper

Machida was damn exciting against Soukodjou!

Kent Brockman

Thats the only fight of his Ive seen so far and was really impressed with how he controlled what looked like a much stronger opponent

ch252

...This is going to be one hell of a fight methinks!
Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjdMjKrf3VY

Fozzy

dunkamania wrote: »

apparently pay levels for affliction fighters have been grossly exagerated

Sylvia is not getting near 800k and Fedor is well below 1.5m.

i would be inclined to believe this

Where did you hear that? I think the reported figure for Fedor was 1.2 million

Dragan

Fozzy wrote: »

Where did you hear that? I think the reported figure for Fedor was 1.2 million

That could be including a predicted slice of PPV as well though.

Edit, that is a great promo. Reminds me of when you heard two of hardest kids in school were gonna go at it on the green afterwards.

Kent Brockman

I read somewhere before that Although Chuck got paid 200k for one of his fights, he actually received closer to 2Million after ppv/sponsors/bonus etc.

I have nothing concrete to back this up. Does it sound right??

Fozzy

Kent Brockman wrote: »

I read somewhere before that Although Chuck got paid 200k for one of his fights, he actually received closer to 2Million after ppv/sponsors/bonus etc.

I have nothing concrete to back this up. Does it sound right??

The payouts reported after every UFC event are just the payouts declared to the athletic commissions. They're sort of base level payouts, the basic money written into the fighter's contract

$200,000 is around what would be declared to the commission for Chuck, but the UFC can pay him as much as they want in bonuses that don't have to be released publicly

Chuck is the UFC's biggest PPV draw, so he likely is getting much more money from PPV bonuses than any other fighter. Same with his sponsors. So $2 million is a reasonable figure to assume

dunkamania

Check out the link to the highlights of the UFC 84 press conference. BJ is merciless. Also Dana lays into Tito

dunkamania

Fozzy wrote: »

Where did you hear that? I think the reported figure for Fedor was 1.2 million

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=6272&zoneid=13


As far as getting a cut of PPV, figures for "Banned" should be fairly low

Fozzy

dunkamania wrote: »

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=6272&zoneid=13


As far as getting a cut of PPV, figures for "Banned" should be fairly low

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Lindland's on the record as saying that he'll be making more from his first fight than he made from all his UFC fights combined, which is around $150,000. If they're paying Lindland more than that then the main-eventers are getting a lot more. I suppose we'll see. Should be a good show, I just wish these promotions would have some sort of plan to stay in the business for a long time

shantor

jardine getting jiggy with it

he should pull some of these moves on tyrex

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ9POUX88Mw

FiannaGym.com

shantor wrote: »

jardine getting jiggy with it

There's a petition on the UG to get Jardine to do technoViking as his entrance. It's not gonna happen, I dont really see Jardine as the dancing type. haha.

As for the whole Tito at UFC 84. I'm really disappointed by Dana White more than ever. He lets himself down time and again. I really want Tito to have a stunningly good performance and to get the win by a KO slam. Then for Donald Trump to get in the octagon and tell Dana he's fired, followed by the Fertitas announcing that Tito is the new man in charge of the UFC!!!!

Peace

shantor

dana white comes across like a bit of a scumbag on the ufc reality show, he is always cursing etc... I always thought he was some kinda marketing guru, but I think hes just a tough muda, you would wanna be when your employees job is to hurt pple

what happened houston alexander just watched him destroy technoviking jardine on ufc 71.. he looked brutal (in a good way)

Fozzy

shantor wrote: »

what happened houston alexander just watched him destroy technoviking jardine on ufc 71.. he looked brutal (in a good way)

He knocked out Alessio Sakara quickly again in his next fight, then in his fight after that he got taken down by Thiago Silva and he looked clueless on the ground. Thiago got the TKO in the first round. And in Houston's last fight he got knocked out in about seven seconds by James Irvin

shantor

thats certainly a downward pattern

Nothingcompares

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7cAbHGZ6F8M

Dave Joyce

Heyy he, that was wonderful NOthing, fair paly to ya bhoy;);)!!! Some predictions for the MMA experts to have a laugh at my expense for UFC 84. BJ will win by sub after some pounding on Muscle steroid, Tito will get beaten not sure how but who cares and I think Jarine could case an upset in beating Silva but would like to see Axman win. Behold and belitte:D:D:D:D:D:D

ShaneU

The Rousimar Palhares vs Ivan Salaverry fight was my favourite. Sherk's face was in bits.

lafors

ShaneU wrote: »

The Rousimar Palhares vs Ivan Salaverry fight was my favourite. Sherk's face was in bits.

Yeah, Palhares was pretty impressive alright.
Great call out of Carwin earlier in the thread (by Fozzy I think), that was a sweet shot.

Wandi made easy work of Dean of Mean, state of that nickname
See BJ being all "nice" after the fight, saying he was trying to make the fight huge.......suppose it worked.

Kent Brockman

Just my thoughts on the fights.

Frustrating night for Tito, great sub attempt at the end v a bjj black belt!

Disappointing first two rounds I thought.

Surprised Sherk didnt try more of his bread and butter stuff, takedowns etc which worked well against Kenflo. What about BJs jab:eek:

Thiago is an animal, clinical!
Excellent bjj by Rousimar , he looked awesome

Happy for Wand, he is a true fighter

Do I need spoilers? the name of the thread should be warning enough

Good fights. Shouldnt need spoilers cos anyone who wants to avoid the results and comes in here is a muppet but out of etiquette Ill put em up anyway in case some people havent seen all the fights.

Wand is an absolute animal. Was delighted for him. Always felt Dean Sardine was over rated. he's so inconsistent, i mean he beats Forrest, loses to Houston, beats Chuck, then gets annihalated by wandy. He'll probably stop fedor next and then lose to Danny Abbidi.


Thiago Silva did well to comeback, those kicks looked powerful!


BJ is the man. I have to say, now that the dust is settled, I do have time for sean Sherk....now that BJ KO'd him that is! BJ is the best....really hope they put that match against GSP together.

Palhares looked excellent, top quality stuff on the ground. Busta in his corner, a potentail threat to the Spyder.


Machida annoys me. I mean watching him its clear to see he has all the tools necessary, excellent reflexes, timing, foot sweeps, wrestling (I mean how often has anyone taken Tito down in 21 fights...Randy and Rashad. Impressive skills but ever since I saw him fight BJ back in the day Ive felt he's a bit too much of a stall merchant points fighter. I know BJ is awesome no matter the size but he never really opened up and pushed on. Just pointed his way to the W. I wanna seee him fight a really good aggressive powerful striker. i actually think Wand would cause him problems cos if he landed which Im sure he would, he could get the Ko whilst Machida doesnt appear to have massive power. Some threads on other MMA websites comparing him to kalib Starnes which is just plain idiotic. He;s very technical, just too passive for me. That said, he;s becomming harder and harder to ignore for title contention.

Pride Fighter

I hope the UFC drop Lyoto 'the marathon runner' Machida. To use a GAA expression he is a puke fighter.

Fozzy

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I hope the UFC drop Lyoto 'the marathon runner' Machida. To use a GAA expression he is a puke fighter.

I don't think Machida ran anywhere. He fakes a lot of shots which I think makes it look like he's stalling a lot, but it's just his style. It's always been the same and if Tito had watched his previous fights then he should've known that he'd have to try something different than what he did. Machida attacked the whole fight and he did more damage than Tito

Mossy Monk

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I hope the UFC drop Lyoto 'the marathon runner' Machida. To use a GAA expression he is a puke fighter.

Were you watching the fight against Tito? Machida had a great fight.

judas101

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Were you watching the fight against Tito? Machida had a great fight.

+1

He's got great technique and makes people fight his game.

Class act he is.

Pride Fighter

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I hope the UFC drop Lyoto 'the marathon runner' Machida. To use a GAA expression he is a puke fighter.

No. He is very clever in how he fights. In and out. He never ran, look at Titos face after the fight, he was messed up, Machida was unscathed. In fairness to him, his style is frustrating because I see more from him, but its damned effective and until he loses u cant argue with it.

Dragan

You fight to win, not entertain people in the internet.

Dragan

Dragan wrote: »

You fight to win, not entertain people in the internet.

I prefer fighters who fight to finish rather than to win. AT times machida can be too much of a points fighter. However, I have nothing but respect for him (except his Tim Sylvia like stall fest over BJ when he had a massive size advantage) because he is brilliant to be fair. He;s gonna be hard for anyone to beat. His style isnt the prettiest but I also agree that if he were to be pressured in changing it so as to please fans, and then start losing then really..how pure is MMA?!