Advice on B.Corp Law

xp90

Hi guys,
Im thinkin about starting corporate law this september and am looking for advice from current students on the course, lectures etc. also looking for advice on 1st year accomodation, any advice would be much appreciated. thanks guys

leninbenjamin

a good few of my friends do Corp Law. they all seem to really enjoy it, seems a good course. by and large I think the course involves mainly a few law subjects along with a few commerce subjects, like economics and industrial organisation and some sh*t, with most of the specialisation left til the last year (dont quote me on this though). most of the people i know doing it anyway place little stock in the commerce side of things, though i'm sure it will stand to them. i'm sure someone else here can offer more info.

in terms of accomodation, almost all first years live in Corrib Village. place is a kip, but it's basically one big party all year and everyone seems to love it. you wont have much of a workload anyway in first year, very few courses do, so you'll have lots of idle time.

edit: Pook, me thinks we need a sticky on accommodation and other introductoary junk.

xp90

Thanks for the quick reply. anyone have an idea on lecture hours per week, difficulty of the course, and where the lectures take place in nui?

Amazotheamazing

I did Corp Law. Great course, but don't fall into the mistake of doing the Llb after it, a complete waste of time. If you study a language with it you'll have the option of going on Erasmus, I'd recommend it.

It's a good course, but you'll only get out of it what you put into it. I didn't take the first two years seriously and it made things harder when it came to doing FE1 exams. Put a small bit of work in in those years and you'll breeze the exams.

When I did it we had something like 17 hours a weeks, of which I'd say I attended maybe 4 or 5 in first and second year. When it comes to law exams there's nothing you can do except sit down and read, make notes etc. A few weeks study in first and second year and you'll pass the exams.

When I was in college lectures were on the concourse, might have changed now though.

Live in Student res, most fun.

Amazotheamazing

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I did Corp Law. Great course, but don't fall into the mistake of doing the Llb after it, a complete waste of time. .

Out of curiousity,why not do the LLB?

Amazotheamazing

Deleted User wrote: »

Out of curiousity,why not do the LLB?

Because it's a simple waste of time. It's poorly organised and poorly taught.

It's pointless as Corp Law is a good enough degree to get an apprenticeship with. You will be short certain subjects, but imo, you can either teach yourself them or do them as a revision course in Griffith. For example, when I was there, Land Law was so poorly taught, that it actually hindered most us who used the college notes when it came to the Fe's as they were just plain rubbish. I learned far more about Equity and Land from simply photocopying the Griffith notes off someone and studying them.

As for some of the electives, all fine sounding in theory, but as usual, poorly taught. There were a few lecturers who were excellent, but for the most part the standard was well below what I'd expect for an optional post-grad degree.

Of my class of Corp Law, I'd say maybe a handful didn't find the LLB a mindnumbing waste of time.

If you want to do a Masters or Postgrad degree, don't follow the herd into the Llb, research what you want to do properly and go from there.

xp90

Cheers man, its really good to get an experienced view of the course. Out of curiosity, what exactly are you employed as now that youve graduated?A solicitor I assume? Maybe il borrow those notes off you in three years time or so!:)

Ardscoil Ris

I just finished my first year in corp law on wednesday and I must say you should really go for it. I will sum up the course for you as best I can.

Firstly Corp Law is basically Commerce and Law mixed together. This also opens up more doors for you in the future.

Subjects in 1st year are: Tort, Contract Law, Irish Legal systems, Legal methods and Research, Economics, Accounting and Management Information Systems.

They change every year but its usually half commerce half law.

It not much hours a week in first year and is very little work in my opinion. Roughly about 12hrs for lectures and maybe 4/5 for tutorials. Its not actually hard as well.

You can will become a solicitor out of this course just like civil law but you have to do a extra year (LLB) in land law. Then you can go to Blackhall just like all the the gay civil law people. But you to get a better degree in Corp Law then Civil. My friend got 540 points in the LC and went for this course instead of civil law. But he is cleaver because if you want to become a criminal laywer etc in Ireland then good luck because there aint a hope of it happening. The Market is flooded. However there is a demeand for corporate lawyers.

If you want more information I can email you my course handbook which explains all in great detail. I have it scanned up on my computer already so it wont be much trouble?

I hope this was relevent enough for you. Also and friend of mine dropped out of commerce and is going back in september doing corp law.

nerd3000

Hoping to do the B.Corp this coming September also but I was just curious about this option to take up a language. I'm pretty certain I will go mental doing Law constantly so I thought about doing French. I'm not excellent at French but I don't want to give it up, it would be refreshing to do a language that I have an aptitude for. I would love to do Erasmus as well. I got a B2 in the mock if that is anything to go by. Have a feeling as well that the points might come down to 430. There doesn't seem to be any one interested in this course!!
Are there many doing a language? or does one actually have any time to do a language? Is it even worth it or would I be wasting my time?

Ardscoil Ris

About one third do a language. Having a second language is alway a big plus on any CV, we were advised to take one of the languages (french, german, spanish) but the majority decided not to do a language. I didnt do a language and took the non language course (management information systems). But I'm doing chinese in the college at night. Its really up to you to be honest. If your good go for it. If not dont. Best of seeing what you get in the leaving cert. Anything else you or anybody else wants to know?

xp90

Wouldnt be too interested in the languages myself, not my forte. Very excited about the course so to speak, can i forward you my email address to get the handbook?

Ardscoil Ris

Yeah just PM me your address and I will sent it today.

Amazotheamazing

Ardscoil Ris wrote: »

You can will become a solicitor out of this course just like civil law but you have to do a extra year (LLB) in land law.

No you don't.

The 8 Fe1's are Contract, Constitution, Land, Equity, European Law, Tort, Criminal, Company.

You will cover 6 in Corporate Law. You won't cover Equity and Land Law.

It is not worth doing the LLB just to do those two subjects, go off and do a better Masters if you wish. By the time you finish third year, you will be able to study law subjects on your own, imo, doing the Llb for two subjects is one of the biggest cons in NUI,G.

As it is, I'm currently a trainee solicitor. Did French and had a great Erasmus year in France but if you don't like languages it's a long haul to get through them.

Ardscoil Ris

Ah I thought there was only one LLB to do in Land Law. That sucks that we have to do two.

Amazotheamazing

Ardscoil Ris wrote: »

Ah I thought there was only one LLB to do in Land Law. That sucks that we have to do two.

I'm not sure you have the idea of the LLB right.

The LLB is a taught post-grad degree (not a Masters). It has a fairly good list of subjects you can study, including Land and Equity.

My biggest complaint is that it is a poorly organised and poorly taught course. There are better postgrads to do for a year of your life.

Ardscoil Ris

I understand fully the LLB thing now. So basically if I decide not to do the LLB but still want to become a solicitor then I do what exactly?

Amazotheamazing

Ardscoil Ris wrote: »

I understand fully the LLB thing now. So basically if I decide not to do the LLB but still want to become a solicitor then I do what exactly?

Depends what type of solicitor you want to be.

You can sit the FE's once you have a degree (any degree, not just a law one). As I said, you'll have studied six of the subjects already so you should be ok. If you want to work in Corporate, do a commercial masters, if you want to work in Criminal, do a Criminal masters. Just don't follow the herd to the llb without thinking about it. Maybe you'll want to do the LLB, but just think about it first.

xp90

Is it possible to spend a semester abroad even if youre not taking a language?

C-J

I finished my B Corp Law last Tuesday and am not doing the llb as am going to the Garda Siochana.. in final year you get to choose 80% of your subjects, there is a clear focus on the business and human aspect of law, for example industrial relations, human resources, labour law etc are mandatory. Lecture hours arent plentiful but the main point of studying law is to spend 2/3 of your time in the library or reading room reading cases and studying up on relevant legal authorities. Its a very worthwhile degree simply because its so broad. And I agree about the llb, total waste of time!!

Ardscoil Ris

xp90 wrote: »

Is it possible to spend a semester abroad even if youre not taking a language?

Yes to the University of Maine in Portland Maine in the USA

C-J

To be honest B Corps never take the American option, usually just head to France or Belgium or Denmark on Erasmus

xp90

Either way a semester abroad anywhere sounds good, although id be glad to be in any sort of uni at this moment in time! im currently on a year out until september ya c, did you go on erasmus yourself?

C-J

Didnt bother, to be honest a lot of friends who did it find it harder to get back into study mode after their doss year abroad. And going back into final year thats not the way you want to be!

sid4lev

xp90 wrote: »

Hi guys,
Im thinkin about starting corporate law this september and am looking for advice from current students on the course, lectures etc. also looking for advice on 1st year accomodation, any advice would be much appreciated. thanks guys

hi...., just to let you know that some of the people who have responded dont have a clue what they're talking about.

i finished my B.Corp law degree last week..
its a fantastic degree with a broad range form subjects to choose from. for my final year alone i studied IT law, international business law, international trade law, intellectual property law, insurance law, insurance law, banking law, alternative dispute resolution...amongst 4 other compulsory subjects. you have a broad discretion in your final year (the one that really matters) as to which route to take...i did as many law subjects as i could but friends did marketing, economicas, financial accounting etc..

IT IS A TOUGH COURSE IF YOU WANT TO DO WELL or get something out of it. we have more exams each semester that the civil law students. you get back what you put in but its studying the law is a very rewarding exercise....finding that case or article that nobody else knows about etc. etc.

YOU REALLY MUST DO THE LLB afterwards.---simple as that..
the b.corp law is not yet fully recognised by some bodies as a full law degree (includinf Kings Inns) the LLB is recognised world wide.
it is a four year postgrad that corp law students ca do in one year and it gives them a second set of letters after thier name

Amazotheamazing

sid4lev wrote: »

hi...., just to let you know that some of the people who have responded dont have a clue what they're talking about.

YOU REALLY MUST DO THE LLB afterwards.---simple as that..
the b.corp law is not yet fully recognised by some bodies as a full law degree (includinf Kings Inns) the LLB is recognised world wide.
it is a four year postgrad that corp law students ca do in one year and it gives them a second set of letters after thier name

I graduated with a first in Corp law, so I'm pretty sure I do know what I'm talking about.

My issue with the llb is specific to the one NUI,G offers, which is simply a crap one, badly taught. By all means, go somewhere else and do a different one if you want (as I have advised all along).

It is not a four year postgrad that Corp Law students get to do in one year, most of the legal science crowd from Arts will do the one year LLB too, it can take four years if a) you do it part-time, and b) you've no law backround at all.

You're giving bad advice sid, come back to me when you've done the LLB and see if you still think so highly of it.

Amazotheamazing

C-J wrote: »

Didnt bother, to be honest a lot of friends who did it find it harder to get back into study mode after their doss year abroad. And going back into final year thats not the way you want to be!

Depends on the person. I went away a poor student, drank for a year, had a great time and came back focussed on getting a first.

Found it a lot easier to work hard because I'd had the year to think about it. I don't think I would have gotten the first without that year on Erasmus. Most of my erasmus class got very good marks too, we were that small bit older and a small bit more focussed, imo.

xp90

What could be so possibly bad about the LLB? Even if it is taught poorly its still recognised and reputable? But hey what do I know?:) As a graduate of Corp Law I assume its possible to consider other Law postgrads too and not just the LLB?

xp90

I assume you attended lectures and took examinations whilst on erasmus??

Amazotheamazing

xp90 wrote: »

What could be so possibly bad about the LLB? Even if it is taught poorly its still recognised and reputable? But hey what do I know?:) As a graduate of Corp Law I assume its possible to consider other Law postgrads too and not just the LLB?

I outlined it earlier. It's a poorly structured course, and it is an issue to me that its poorly taught. I suppose if you aren't bothered about the academic merit of it, and you don't mind spending a year of your life enduring the sheer tedium of it, then it's an easy way to get more letters after your name. I'm like to think I've higher standards when it comes to doing a course rather than "more letters after name"

Re the Erasmus, yes I attended lectures in french law, and we had to pass an oral exam on the subjects, but that's fine.

xp90

Say if for example a B.Corp Graduate wished to do LLM, just for arguments sake, theres nothing stopping him/her from doing it id imagine? Also is the LLB more refined in any other uni?

C-J

as for us 'not knowing what we're talking about' its ridiculous to say that the llb is compulsory. For someone who was in my class as it seems, its worth pointing out that we live in a democracy, nothing is compulsory! As for an extra set of letters after your name, very chauvinistic

Amazotheamazing

xp90 wrote: »

Say if for example a B.Corp Graduate wished to do LLM, just for arguments sake, theres nothing stopping him/her from doing it id imagine? Also is the LLB more refined in any other uni?

Not sure about other LLB's tbh.

In general, the B. Corp Law will be good enough for any Masters degree.

xp90

Is there even any sort of demand for corp. lawyers in modern day ireland?

sid4lev

C-J wrote: »

as for us 'not knowing what we're talking about' its ridiculous to say that the llb is compulsory. For someone who was in my class as it seems, its worth pointing out that we live in a democracy, nothing is compulsory! As for an extra set of letters after your name, very chauvinistic

Well, C-J...., if you want to leave law school not ever having acquired knowledge of or conducted discussion of the fundamental rules of evidence, criminal issues and procedures be my guest...good luck fighting cases in the real world though...even if you are doing corporate.

All im saying is that for a full and complete law degree, you NEED to do the llb after the B.Corp.....if you disagree... ask the Dean...!

Amazotheamazing

sid4lev wrote: »

Well, C-J...., if you want to leave law school not ever having acquired knowledge of or conducted discussion of the fundamental rules of evidence, criminal issues and procedures be my guest...good luck fighting cases in the real world though...even if you are doing corporate.

All im saying is that for a full and complete law degree, you NEED to do the llb after the B.Corp.....if you disagree... ask the Dean...!

You have a real awakening coming when you start work. Everything you need to work as a solicitor you are taught in Blackhall. You will use very little of what you studied in college.

Anyhow, my issue is with the llb as offered by NUI,G, as I keep saying, waste of time.

Ardscoil Ris

xp90 wrote: »

Is there even any sort of demand for corp. lawyers in modern day ireland?

Yes there is a demand. Better to have connections but there is the demand. Criminal lawyers will struggle because there is no demand there.

sid4lev

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I outlined it earlier. It's a poorly structured course, and it is an issue to me that its poorly taught. I suppose if you aren't bothered about the academic merit of it, and you don't mind spending a year of your life enduring the sheer tedium of it, then it's an easy way to get more letters after your name. I'm like to think I've higher standards when it comes to doing a course rather than "more letters after name"

Re the Erasmus, yes I attended lectures in french law, and we had to pass an oral exam on the subjects, but that's fine.

Congrats on getting your first-thats excellent...well done..im hoping for same come june 25th-i am on a first so far from 6 law exams at xmas-here's hoping lucy-ann buckley will be a nicer marker this time around.
do you mind me asking if it was difficult to find a traineeship with a 1st degree-considering current economic climate etc...or have you found one/hoping to find one ?
back to llb....personally (and im surprised you dont feel similarly since you're a first class student) i think that all one can get out of a law lecture/legal study is what one puts in-ie-if you dont ask questions/participate in class/enjoy your study and modules you wont get much out of it....unless you can give me a different interpretation of 'badly conducted course' (like timetables-which for me is irrelevant) i honestly cant see what could be so bad about nuigs llb since most lecturers are the same as corp/civil law...so unless you can justify your description of the llb as a 'badly conducted course' with reasonable merit please dont tell me im wasting my time by planning to do it because ill be working (already am) my ass off all summer to save the 6500eur required to do the course...and yes it does give you a second set of letters after your name as well as extra subjects which will only benefit your cv and all in only one year. im sure you're an intelligent individual...so which do you think will look better on your application to any of the top 5 'Conor Gantly B.Corp. Law' (thats not my name...obviously) or 'Conor Gantly B.Corp. Law LLB'? it aint rocket science!! those letters represent enthusiasm and perhaps even passion as well as more extensive knowledge in other fields of the law. and i know what you're saying about black hall teaching you about your work as a solicitor but would you not agree that when striving for the top you must be familiar with as many fundamental and core principles of law as possible even if some of those are 'rarely applicable in practice'. after all solicitation is all about problem solving, be it in court or on paper-you know what im getting at.....(id explain but dont want to bore you...although i probably already have...should find something better to do with my time!!)

sorry for rambling on

xp90

Hi sid, some good input there, and I see what your saying about an extra set of letters after your name, it makes sense. Congrats on getting this far, if Im in the same situatuion as yourself in three years time Id consider myself doin pretty damn well. 6.5k to do the LLB?? I assume its tax deductable at the end of the day?

C-J

as it happens i have a very good job which im just after starting WITHOUT the llb, and without the 'rude awakening' -starting wage of 55k. and WITHOUT my 'extra set of letters'.
This is all Im going to say on the matter, and I think it answers the initial question asked, to say that the B Corp Law is an excellent all round degree regardless of whether or not you waste a year studying two subjects which you could easily study yourself for Blackhall. Hope you choose NUIG for September!!

xp90

Thanks guys, I have a far better insight to the course now

xp90

Hey guys, having talked to several people, they seem to find the course difficult, would you agree?

sid4lev

hi..,

its easy to pass each year......but if you want to seriously go into law passing will probably get you nowhere.
each semester the corp laws have at least 2 more exams than the civil laws. the law subjects are marked out of 72 or 73 depending on the lecturer. basically one mild slip up in one exam and you wont get a first class degree (however if you chose to pick some commerce subjects some of which are marked out of 100 they will pick up your average ---but they dont look as good on your cv if want to go into law..obviously) the course is basically as tough as you make it...if you want to get a good degree you have to put in A LOT of work ALL year long AND be lucky. however this mostly applies to the final year. it is not as important to do well in the 1st and 2nd years--but work still required even to pass. its a great course and with the 4th llb you'll probably have one of the best if not the best (because of length and variety of subjects both legal and commercial) legal degree combo in the country. currently awaiting my results...****ting myself because didnt do any extra commerce subjects to pick up average......! arghghghgh!
hope this helps...

Brooke01

Do you have to count maths as one of your best subjects for this course ???

xp90

Brooke01 wrote: »

Do you have to count maths as one of your best subjects for this course ???

Do you mean that 1) I count maths in my top six points-wise or 2) Is it a requirement for entry purposes?

nerd3000

No not at all!
If you get 440+ from ANY SIX SUBJECTS than you can get in Brooke

genericgoon

I believe you still have to pass maths of course but I'll assume thats a non-issue:D

xp90

Hi brooke, try http://www.qualifax.ie/?Mainsec=courses&Subsec=course_details&ID=1916&CSH_ID=4 for the full list of requirements. Hope it helps!

xp90

So has anyone chosen this as their first choice for september?

nerd3000

xp90 wrote: »

So has anyone chosen this as their first choice for september?

Yes, I am. First choice and would be a real let down if I didn't get it, although I feel as if I did enough to get at least 450.

Hoping to do French or Italian also. Can't wait to start it!:D

xp90

nerd3000 wrote: »

Yes, I am. First choice and would be a real let down if I didn't get it, although I feel as if I did enough to get at least 450.

Hoping to do French or Italian also. Can't wait to start it!:D

Ah excellent, i cant see the points taking much of a jump to be honest, so 450 or slightly more should get you by easy. Had thought of taking spanish from the begining myself. doesnt seem to be much interest in the course in all fairness.

nerd3000

xp90 wrote: »

Ah excellent, i cant see the points taking much of a jump to be honest, so 450 or slightly more should get you by easy. Had thought of taking spanish from the begining myself. doesnt seem to be much interest in the course in all fairness.

Interest, why do you think it's gone down so much? Is NUIG a poor Law school or something? or are people just not prepared to put in the work ie studying law cases, reports etc? However, I guess the whole stereotype of Law and boring go hand in hand and so it just doesn't appeal to undergraduates.

I think this course is gold, 450 points (not too difficult in comparison to other law courses) and you have so much more opportunities than Commerce and Corp Lawyers are in huge demand, the market is just crying out for them.
I think it's ironic considering Civil Law is in huge demand but there are so many Civil lawyers about that it's is next to impossible to attain employment.
It just baffles me as to why people are overlooking this course!!
any chance you have the course handbook? could you PM to me?