Driving without a full-licensed driver?

Peleus

Not sure if this should be in the motors forum or what, but ill post it and you can move it if you need to.

I was wondering, what happens to you if you have a learner permit, you 're driving a legal car and are insured but you don't have a full licensed driver with you? In other words, whats the punishment for driving unaccompanied on a provisional license? Because i know a lot of my friends do it all the time and never get in trouble for it. is it serious?

Alanstrainor

I believe there is a maximum fine of €1000 and a possible disqualification for driving unaccompanied on a learners permit.

chris85

as alanstrator said but the garda arent really implementing this but they may be doing so in the next few months.

There may be concern that their insurance is void if in an accident. Although i was hit by a provisional driver last year and his insurance coughed up pretty quick and the guard on scene said nothing to him about driving on a provisional.

Alanstrainor

chris85 wrote: »

....alanstrator.....

hahahahaha,

the_syco

chris85 wrote: »

as alanstrator said but the garda arent really implementing this but they may be doing so in the next few months.

There may be concern that their insurance is void if in an accident. Although i was hit by a provisional driver last year and his insurance coughed up pretty quick and the guard on scene said nothing to him about driving on a provisional.

You can drive on the 2nd and 4th license without someone else. But from June, you'll need someone with two years experience if on a provisional learners permit, and the Gardai will know that EVERYONE with an L plate is not allowed on their own, so can arrest them. Now, it's not worth teh hassle, as most people driving are allowed to drive...

OrangeDaisy

here in Cork they're starting to implement it big time......know 2 people who have been told to expect a court summons for driving on their own don't really know whether the guards are just trying to frighten them or what.

Wishbone Ash

the_syco wrote: »

You can drive on the 2nd and 4th license without someone else

That is incorrect. In category B one may only drive unaccompanied if on the 2nd Provisional Licence or 2nd Learner Permit (until June 30th).

Anyone on a 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th....and subsequent Provisional Licence or learner Permit is and has always been required to be accompanied.

The only other excemption in category B was those who had held the Provisional Licence prior to the 12th August 1985 although I don't this exemption will apply from June onwards.

the_syco wrote:

and the Gardai will know that EVERYONE with an L plate is not allowed on their own, so can arrest them

Not "EVERYONE" on an 'L' plate!

Those Provisional Licence/Learner Permit holders in categories A, A1, M and W are not required to be accompanied.

(...and I doubt very much that offenders will be 'arrested').

chris85

Alanstrainor wrote: »

hahahahaha,

sorry :p

Gauge

OrangeDaisy wrote: »

here in Cork they're starting to implement it big time......know 2 people who have been told to expect a court summons for driving on their own don't really know whether the guards are just trying to frighten them or what.

Haha really? I know a fair few people driving around on their own, I'll have to give them a heads up to stop.

Peleus

how do they expect drivers to learn for their test. Where are they gonna find a FullLicence driver who has nothing better to do but be driven around everywhere.

they should at least give a warning before fining you.

Gauge

In fairness every other country manages to do it...

Yakult

Peleus wrote: »

how do they expect drivers to learn for their test. Where are they gonna find a FullLicence driver who has nothing better to do but be driven around everywhere.

Yeah its a balls imo. I have to try and get a test now before July if I want to work this summer.

ztoical

Gauge wrote: »

In fairness every other country manages to do it...

+ 1

Peleus

Peleus wrote: »

how do they expect drivers to learn for their test. Where are they gonna find a FullLicence driver who has nothing better to do but be driven around everywhere.

they should at least give a warning before fining you.

I have my test in two weeks, after applying on November 23rd.

Not once have i driven on my own, I got 11 lessons = 11 hours of driving.

I have 2 Fully licensed parents - get about 3 hours a week done.

In week before test, I'll just persuade some of my fully licensed friends to come for spins.

Its really really not that difficult to not drive unnaccompanied.

Btw, I am confident of passing my test, having sat the Ignition scheme, and passed with full discount.

daiixi

Peleus wrote: »

how do they expect drivers to learn for their test. Where are they gonna find a FullLicence driver who has nothing better to do but be driven around everywhere.

they should at least give a warning before fining you.

It's law. Everyone has been given fair warning.

Also I've no family in the country and most of my friends either don't have licenses, don't have cars or are on provisionals. I learned to drive here with the aid of my wonderful driving instructor who I paid small a fortune to. Plus I was able to benefit from learning with someone who (1) knows how to teach and (2) concentrated on teaching me the best possible way to drive. It did mean that I had to do with a few less nights on the booze in order to pay for the lessons but at the end of the day learning to drive was my priority.

Feachan

From my understanding the exemption from being accompanied that applied to pre August 1985 provisional licence holders will not apply after 30 June 2008.

Feachan

jd83

So does all this mean that im going to have to find a full licence driver to accompany me to my driving test,get out and wait for me while i do it and then drive home with me?

TwoShedsJackson

rory1983 wrote: »

So does all this mean that im going to have to find a full licence driver to accompany me to my driving test,get out and wait for me while i do it and then drive home with me?

Yes.

ardmacha

then drive home with me?

If you pass, then you can drive home yourself.

token56

I wouldn't mind all this if they sorted out the waiting times for the testing. They say that the times are coming down, however this is not what I experienced. Failed the test once in January of this year and got this test after waiting 15 weeks. The day I failed I applied again, I now got a date for my second test, over 25 weeks after I applied in January, its rediculous as the waiting time on the website back in january said 15 weeks. It know says 8 weeks which is also ludicrious. Sorry that this rant is off topic

jd83

ardmacha wrote: »

If you pass, then you can drive home yourself.

Yeah but you wont have a full licensee yet just the cert .

The waiting times have really improved in dublin i only applied around 2 months ago and ive been called for it for mid may but i cancelled it to do it in june

LDriver

ardmacha wrote: »

If you pass, then you can drive home yourself.

If you drive to test alone and tester knows is that a fail? Can't be can it?

challengemaster

Peleus wrote: »

how do they expect drivers to learn for their test. Where are they gonna find a FullLicence driver who has nothing better to do but be driven around everywhere.

they should at least give a warning before fining you.

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Yeah its a balls imo. I have to try and get a test now before July if I want to work this summer.

Balls indeed. Not everyone has the time to take out to drive around with a learner..

And there's times where it's just.. wrong.

>>Girlfriend calls over to go to cinema with you, which is a fair bit so you're driving
"Ready to go hun?"
"Hold on a sec, just have to get the mother/father.."

That'll go well. :rolleyes:

ztoical

challengemaster wrote: »

Balls indeed. Not everyone has the time to take out to drive around with a learner..

And there's times where it's just.. wrong.

>>Girlfriend calls over to go to cinema with you, which is a fair bit so you're driving
"Ready to go hun?"
"Hold on a sec, just have to get the mother/father.."

That'll go well. :rolleyes:

other countries don't let learners drive by themselves and they don't seem to have any problems learning to drive.

challengemaster

But, do other countries have the same waiting period as we do?

Prenderb

Did I see "pre-1985 provisional licence holder" somewhere? Holy cow, that's crazy - doesn't it just sum up the irish mentality beautifully though! I knew test waiting lists were long but....

ztoical

challengemaster wrote: »

But, do other countries have the same waiting period as we do?

But one of the reasons we've ended up with such long waiting lists is that up until the new rules were announced no one was pushed to fix the long waiting lists cus you could drive anyway. I've friends who all started driving long before me and still haven't sat one test - they'd a get a date and say "ah I can't be bothered that week" and would cancel [of course now their freaking out demanding a test] The waiting list can and has been brought down - I waited 7 months for my first test and 8 weeks for the second [and its wasn't a cancelled test, both times I meant to send a letter from my job but never did]

HungryJoey

LDriver wrote: »

If you drive to test alone and tester knows is that a fail? Can't be can it?

I don't see why you would. It is not up to a tester to implement the law.

Although I know my mother ( 30+ years ago ) did fail because of something similar, but thats 30 years ago.

TwoShedsJackson

challengemaster wrote: »

Balls indeed. Not everyone has the time to take out to drive around with a learner..

And there's times where it's just.. wrong.

>>Girlfriend calls over to go to cinema with you, which is a fair bit so you're driving
"Ready to go hun?"
"Hold on a sec, just have to get the mother/father.."

That'll go well. :rolleyes:

Get a bus or a taxi. I know it's a pain in the arse but how do people manage to learn to drive in Britain, Germany, USA etc. basically everywhere but here, if their lifestyles are curtailed as much as you seem to think it would be?

ztoical

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Get a bus or a taxi. I know it's a pain in the arse but how do people manage to learn to drive in Britain, Germany, USA etc. basically everywhere but here, if their lifestyles are curtailed as much as you seem to think it would be?

+1 My friend managed to learn to drive and pass first time while in college full time, being a single mum with a child under 1, parents living the other side of the country and no near by friends with full license - never drove on her own either, got extra lessons, went without a few treats for a couple months as she needed to drive to bring her son to creche before class and pick him up after. So if she can learn and pass with all that going on no reason anyone living at home with parents with full licenses can't.

Antamojo

Maybe the gov. should implement some sort of scheme in the educational system
Some optional extra class once a week or so teaching students stuff about driving?
Dunno, could work, could save lives

challengemaster

Well in the US, they're taught in school how to drive, and then can drive from 16 upwards... and considering it's size, there's a lot more test centres than there are over here. Public transport would be better too.Also I think (note: think) that in the US, learner drivers don't need anyone with them..however they do have time/passenger restrictions. Open to correction

I don't know where abouts you are, but tbh, there's no bus service running later on in the day/night. It's not like dublinbus every 5 mins. Taxi's are a major pita, but still it is there.. not really a good option at all if you want to travel a lot though. If you're going out a few nights a week with mates/gf/doing anything, a taxi 15~miles either way isnt going to be cheap.

TBH, you get better by practice, but really this law is limiting what practice you can actually get, so I don't think too highly of the idea.

ztoical

challengemaster wrote: »

Well in the US, they're taught in school how to drive, and then can drive from 16 upwards... and considering it's size, there's a lot more test centres than there are over here. Public transport would be better too.

Am I reading this right? Are you saying public transport in the US is better then here? Cus I can tell you it ain't. New York is the only major city with a decent 24 hour public transport system. Other large cites have subways or tram systems but they don't cover all the city, few run very late, most of the equipment is very outdated and its costly. Once you go outside very large cities you are screwed. Lived in New Jersey for a while and its a nightmare trying to get anywhere by foot or bus. Just got back from staying with friends in Portland and Seattle and they were bitching about how gas prices had gone up and they couldn't get anywhere without a car.

Ah-Watch

I got my test and failed it twice, I don't speed ever as I feel its wrong to do so(I sound like a krank) and Had the cost of approx 20 lessons and the fee of 2 tests, Was annoyedd wen i faied first so i said id try anothre instructor and i got lessons from him, both said I'd pass but I think its cos im young! I'm very annoyedd with RSA, know many people, some friends who race on public roads and everything that go do their test 1st time and they pass and the law abiding ones are failed. its such a deterront. I booked my test again last week but if I fail again I would be in the slightest bit happy to say the lease... And I am a good driver too:rolleyes: but im not a boy racer r anything!!!!

challengemaster

Ah-Watch wrote: »

I got my test and failed it twice, I don't speed ever as I feel its wrong to do so(I sound like a krank) and Had the cost of approx 20 lessons and the fee of 2 tests, Was annoyedd wen i faied first so i said id try anothre instructor and i got lessons from him, both said I'd pass but I think its cos im young! I'm very annoyedd with RSA, know many people, some friends who race on public roads and everything that go do their test 1st time and they pass and the law abiding ones are failed. its such a deterront. I booked my test again last week but if I fail again I would be in the slightest bit happy to say the lease... And I am a good driver too:rolleyes: but im not a boy racer r anything!!!!

TBH, If you're failing then there's a reason for it, and I highly doubt it's that you're a law abiding citizen, or young. You know what reasons you failed for before, so fix them.. You may be a good driver (or think that you are), but unless you fix what you're doing wrong in the test, you won't pass. I don't think anyone bar yourself is to blame here. Fix what you're doing wrong in the tests, and you'll pass..

Alanstrainor

Ah-Watch wrote: »

I got my test and failed it twice, I don't speed ever as I feel its wrong to do so(I sound like a krank) and Had the cost of approx 20 lessons and the fee of 2 tests, Was annoyedd wen i faied first so i said id try anothre instructor and i got lessons from him, both said I'd pass but I think its cos im young! I'm very annoyedd with RSA, know many people, some friends who race on public roads and everything that go do their test 1st time and they pass and the law abiding ones are failed. its such a deterront. I booked my test again last week but if I fail again I would be in the slightest bit happy to say the lease... And I am a good driver too:rolleyes: but im not a boy racer r anything!!!!

To say the reason you're not passing is because your young is just incorrect, you're not passing because your driving is not up to the standard set by the test. As said before you need to work on what you messed up on before and if yur driving instructor is not up to par, change.
The reason your friends pass is because they knew, or know how to drive on test day, that is all it takes, unfortunately, so your friends, crazy and unsafe drivers regularly just knew how to drive to pass the test.

Ah-Watch

Ok from the start Im 18 and driving a 05 1.9tdi passat, it has red boy racer looking seat covers in it. The first time I did my test a dog ran accross the road-I slowed down but still got a stright disqualifation for it. When I got back to the testing office the man siad I should've pressed on the breaks -ie slam on it-and then said I should've went out around him. The second time I got marked too many x's! I dont know like I thought my instructor was very good but said I'd get another persons experience, and both said I should've passed! feel free to still disagree-:pac: but I still think I was given a negative image for driving a very powerful passat, seat covers and only being 17! I dont know but I'm sick of the costs!!!!!

challengemaster

So first time, you did something wrong and got disqualified. You probably won't make the same mistake again.

Second time you made too many mistakes. Fix what you did wrong.

Testers don't discriminate over you/car/etc, they might not be impressed, but it's their job to mark fairly to the standard they should. You made errors, and you admit to it. It's only YOUR fault. If you've such a problem with the cost of things, then fix your errors.. They don't fork out errors in the exam for what way your car looks/boy racer image. You're just starting to think that way because you're annoyed you failed (imo). Accept that you made the mistakes and work on fixing them for next time.

Ah-Watch

okok!;) hopefully ill pass the next time anyway!:cool: tnx lads

Peleus

Ah-Watch wrote: »

The first time I did my test a dog ran accross the road-I slowed down but still got a stright disqualifation for it. When I got back to the testing office the man siad I should've pressed on the breaks -ie slam on it-and then said I should've went out around him.

If you slowed down enough not to hit the dog, i don't see how should be disqualified. It's probably safer to slow down steadily to avoid the dog than to slam on the breaks and try to steer out of its way. maybe they were looking for anything to disqualify you.

you should do your test in a suit and in one of the test cars. or just take away the seat covers and stick a cross on your rearview mirror. at least then, theyd want to pass you.

Ah-Watch

Peleus wrote: »

If you slowed down enough not to hit the dog, i don't see how should be disqualified. It's probably safer to slow down steadily to avoid the dog than to slam on the breaks and try to steer out of its way. maybe they were looking for anything to disqualify you.

you should do your test in a suit and in one of the test cars. or just take away the seat covers and stick a cross on your rearview mirror. at least then, theyd want to pass you.

I thought the same thing, I slowed down enough without slamming on the breaks etc.... but I said what if the car behind me hits me-hopefully it wont was the reply... I was dressed in Black trouser and a tommy hilfigir top, hoped itd work but it didnt haha, I h8 the seat covers as I thnk i'd be stopped easier but my father got them on offer and refuses to take them off, i took them off before and spend almost 2 hours tring to put them back on so i passed on taking them off....


I think ill do the test in a micra or a fiesta, looks better than a passat!:)

Alanstrainor

Ah-Watch wrote: »

I thought the same thing, I slowed down enough without slamming on the breaks etc.... but I said what if the car behind me hits me-hopefully it wont was the reply... I was dressed in Black trouser and a tommy hilfigir top, hoped itd work but it didnt haha, I h8 the seat covers as I thnk i'd be stopped easier but my father got them on offer and refuses to take them off, i took them off before and spend almost 2 hours tring to put them back on so i passed on taking them off....


I think ill do the test in a micra or a fiesta, looks better than a passat!:)

You'd be wasting your time changing car, they really dont care what car you drive. It's about how you drive. The testers will know that a lot of young drivers are driving parents cars etc. I can't really comment on the situation with the dog, as i haven't a clue about the details. But in a situation on a main road if a dog was in the middle of the road i would brake relatively hard, ie not slamming on the brakes, but not just touching them either, and i would not swerve.

Ciaran500

Pretty sure correct procedure would be to hit the dog rather than slam on the brakes and possibly put someone behind you in danger. Not that thats what I'd end up doing.

Ah-Watch

ciaran 500 i thought the same thing that id be putting someone in danger and possibly myself and raisedd it with him and thats when he said i should swerve which makes no sense as I'd probably hit the person in the oncoming traffic... anyhow its over and done with now.... thanks lads for your views made me think more about what car to do my test in!;)

Alanstrainor

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Pretty sure correct procedure would be to hit the dog rather than slam on the brakes and possibly put someone behind you in danger. Not that thats what I'd end up doing.

just to note i did state i wouldn't "slam" on my brakes, but there's no rule that says you must run the dog over, do slow down and if the dog doesnt move or if you can't safely stop then, unfortunately yes doggy will take a knock.

ergonomics

token56 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind all this if they sorted out the waiting times for the testing. They say that the times are coming down, however this is not what I experienced. Failed the test once in January of this year and got this test after waiting 15 weeks. The day I failed I applied again, I now got a date for my second test, over 25 weeks after I applied in January, its rediculous as the waiting time on the website back in january said 15 weeks. It know says 8 weeks which is also ludicrious. Sorry that this rant is off topic

I failed my test in March and reapplied the same day. I had a date within 6 weeks.

ergonomics

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Pretty sure correct procedure would be to hit the dog rather than slam on the brakes and possibly put someone behind you in danger. Not that thats what I'd end up doing.

This happened to be during a lesson. I saw the hazard and slowed down steadily. As a result the cars behind me were also given time to slow down and didn't have to slam on their brakes. I flicked on my hazards for a second too. I asked my instructor about it and he said that it was the right thing to do as slamming on the brakes, or swerving, causes a hazard. Slowing down steadily is the safest option.

On my test a dog ran out in front of me again. I slowed down, flicked on my hazards to indicate that something was up to the cars behind me and then drove on when the dog went by. Didn't get a mark on my sheet for it.

zig

I wish they would change it so if you had your test booked and proof of that then you were exempt , a bit like having proof that your nct is booked.
I know it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing but its just I think they should have had at least a year of improved waiting lists before they brought this in, not 3 or months. I failed mine a month ago, ive only got the cash now to book again and get more lessons, and im gonna have to try get the test outside working hours. All this within the next month.

sunnyside

I'm really worried about this. I need to get a car soon and will have a learner permit. I genuienly have nobody to help me. My parents have passed away and I have no brothers or sisters. I will obviously be paying for lessons (I had some in the past) but without some practice on my own I'll probably never be in a position to do a test. I'm female and in my late 20's.

Alanstrainor

sunnyside wrote: »

I'm really worried about this. I need to get a car soon and will have a learner permit. I genuienly have nobody to help me. My parents have passed away and I have no brothers or sisters. I will obviously be paying for lessons (I had some in the past) but without some practice on my own I'll probably never be in a position to do a test. I'm female and in my late 20's.

Well unfortunately it's just how things are. Perhaps coming up to your test you could ask friends to accompany you so you could get some practise in. Test dates can be gotten in under 10 weeks these days(On average test dates are gotten in 8.2 weeks), so you should be able to get your test quickly. In a way, a reliance on lessons will ensure absolutely no bad habbits can be developed, which should give you a very good chance of passing first time.

Wishbone Ash

sunnyside wrote: »

but without some practice on my own I'll probably never be in a position to do a test. I'm female and in my late 20's.

Many people pass driving tests in vehicles that they do not have themselves. They can only practise during lessons and therefore do not pick up any bad habits.