You don't need protein!

cormie

So my friend has become raw foodist and sent me this vidjo, what think yee?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae-dlHOmwk4

javaboy

Whatever about the content of the guy's speech, he looks like he gets way too much caffeine. He reminds me of a scarily wide eyed over enthusiastic infomercial guy.

cormie

I doubt very much he'd touch coffee. That's probably just the energy he has from raw food

Deity

......and where is he getting his amino acids from? some kind of osmosis?

He is correct about us needing amino acids, but buy taking them without consuming food is very difficult. Hence supplementation.

be weary about the preachings of a man with "too much muscle"

davyjose

Yawn!

cormie

Deity wrote: »

......and where is he getting his amino acids from? some kind of osmosis?

He is correct about us needing amino acids, but buy taking them without consuming food is very difficult. Hence supplementation.

be weary about the preachings of a man with "too much muscle"

He says he gets his amino acids from eating raw fruit and veg etc. My friend has been doing quite a bit of research on this and because of his findings, has become a raw foodist himself because apparently it's far healthier.

javaboy

cormie wrote: »

I doubt very much he'd touch coffee. That's probably just the energy he has from raw food

No he'd probably "cut out the middle man" and just snort caffeine

EileenG

All I know is that when I was a vegetarian, I could not lose fat. Nothing I did, no amount of cycling or squatting, could drop my weight below 17 stone (and that was before I got pregnant). Then I had my baby, started breastfeeding and suddenly I wanted meat four times a day, starting with black pudding for breakfast.

Oh, and I lost five stone.....

Roper

Wow that guy is amazing.

He's as amazing as that guy who ONLY eats meat and is a beast.

And and and that guy who only drinks water and can run a 3 minute mile.

And and and and that other guy who only eats worms and grass and can bench press 500kilos!

I think your friend has been sold alright. Dolloars to donuts he'll stick it for a while and then go back on his regular diet.

cormie

A lot of you seem to be taking the piss. Why? My friend has been studying nutrition for about 6 years, it's not just a phase he's going through. Have any of you actually researched it yourselves or are you just assuming that no, that can't be true because it's a bit extreme? It makes perfect sense, no?

Roper

Perfect sense. In the same way that in The Holy Grail, they proved that a witch weighs less than a duck. Just because something sounds logical, it doesn't mean it's true, and even if it is true, it doesn't mean it's practical.

Hanley

"I have no bodyfat, I couldn't get bodyfat if I tried"

"I've too much muscle. I build muscle without doing anything"

The guy's acting like he's on crack.

And as for you and your friend... It sounds like you've come on looking for a pat on the back for him. And people aren't giving one, so you're telling us that he knows what he's doing, and he's been studying nutrition for 6 years. So he must be right? So does that make us wrong? And if we are, why are you asking??

And no, it doesn't make "perfect sense".

cormie

Well the guy in the video isn't making any wild claims or anything and no I'm not looking to get my friend a pat on the back, I'd be going raw foodist myself if that was the case. In fact the purpose of posting the video was to try and get some educated responses about it but you all just seem to be taking the video as some extreme diet that may have some benefits but has a million times more negatives.

So far I haven't seen any negatives about a raw food diet other than the social aspect of it, as in you wont be eating aunt marys hot soup anymore after coming in from chopping wood for the fire in winter and that kinda thing.

So if we could try and keep this thread related to the facts and not go off in tangents about witches, crack and caffeine

Roper

Okay fact- this an wants you eat fruit, vegetables (without cooking them first) and no meat.

Most people I know who do this (vegetarians) have extreme difficulty adding any muscle.

davyjose

cormie wrote: »

A lot of you seem to be taking the piss. Why?

The title was "you don't need protein"! How do you expect us not to take the piss?

Hanley

Hanley wrote: »

"I have no bodyfat, I couldn't get bodyfat if I tried"

"I've too much muscle. I build muscle without doing anything"

The guy's acting like he's on crack.

And as for you and your friend... It sounds like you've come on looking for a pat on the back for him. And people aren't giving one, so you're telling us that he knows what he's doing, and he's been studying nutrition for 6 years. So he must be right? So does that make us wrong? And if we are, why are you asking??

And no, it doesn't make "perfect sense".

cormie wrote: »

Well the guy in the video isn't making any wild claims or anything and no I'm not looking to get my friend a pat on the back, I'd be going raw foodist myself if that was the case. In fact the purpose of posting the video was to try and get some educated responses about it but you all just seem to be taking the video as some extreme diet that may have some benefits but has a million times more negatives.

So far I haven't seen any negatives about a raw food diet other than the social aspect of it, as in you wont be eating aunt marys hot soup anymore after coming in from chopping wood for the fire in winter and that kinda thing.

So if we could try and keep this thread related to the facts and not go off in tangents about witches, crack and caffeine

Ehhhhhh....???

cormie

Roper wrote: »

Okay fact- this an wants you eat fruit, vegetables (without cooking them first) and no meat.

Most people I know who do this (vegetarians) have extreme difficulty adding any muscle.

Do you know any raw foodists though? Do the vegetarians you know eat enough to get their "protein" elsewhere? Meat may have protein, b12 etc, but it's also got a lot of other crap in it. We can get the same nutrients obtained from meat, from far better sources such as the likes of spirulina:

-Nature's richest source of protein (65% of it's weight), 300% more than fish, meat or poultry (but with zero cholesterol).
-58x richer in iron than spinach. A non-toxic organic source. Taking the maintenance level of Spirulina provides 39% RDA
-Richest wholefood source of anti-oxidants (25x richer in beta carotene than carrot)
-2x richer in chlorophyll than alfalfa, barleygrass or wheatgrass
-Natures richest source of vitamin B12 (often lacking in a vegetarian diet)
-Spirulina assists weight control by curbing the appetite naturally while still supplying a full range of nutrients needed for a balanced diet.
-As an unrefined whole food, Spirulina is absorbed up to 16x more effectively than synthetic multivitamin supplements.

davyjose wrote: »

The title was "you don't need protein"! How do you expect us not to take the piss?

The video explains why you shouldn't take the piss. Do you not believe what he's saying or something? I don't think it sounds like he's bull****ting myself. Sounds like they are facts he's stating. Oh and I titled the thread based on the video, not based on my belief. But then, I have no reason not to believe him as to me, just a regular listener with only basic knowledge of nutrition, it makes sense and so far nobody has been able to challenge what he's been saying with anything other than he sounds like he's on crack. For a diet that could highly benefit a lot of you (and everyone) from what I've heard of it, why treat it as alien instead of being open to it?

Hanley wrote: »

Ehhhhhh....???

How could he get bodyfat? As I said, I've only basic knowledge of nutrition, if you think he's bull****ting, tell me why, that's why I posted the video because I don't know all the facts and was hoping to get 2 sides of the story. All the replies I've received so far make me believe him no less.

niceonetom

allegations of crack addiction aside - does anyone know how long we have been cooking anything? not that long. a few tens of thousands of years. certainly not long enough to make massive changes to our physiology so we are equipped to live on on a raw food diet. whether it's a good idea (or any fun) is another issue.

this guy lives on a raw food diet and doesn't seem to have a problem building up muscle mass



now i'm not claiming we could live on his diet, i'm just trying to point out that for much of our own evolutionary history we were raw food vegetarians (without choice) and that the equipment to produce muscle from this diet may still be with us. guffawing adds nothing. try to argue the biochemistry maybe?

oh, and rasher samiches FTW!!!

Divinkee

Nice post niceonetom Gorillas as the extremely strong and the strongest primates and live on nearly 100% raw food diet.

Yup, humans lived on a natural, unprocessed, uncooked "raw food" diet for millions of years and we survived. Anthropologists have found healthy skeleton remains from our ancestors before cooked foods came into our diets suggesting our diet was very healthy.

People who say it's crazy or unnatural are simply ignorant. Cooking is estimated to have arisen between 10,000 and 20,000 years ago which is a very short amount of time in comparison to millions of years before that living without it. Even then cooking wasnt widespread at all and certainly our diets didnt consist of mostly cooked - and processed - foods like the Standard American Diet (SAD). The SAD which is pretty much the same as European and Irish diets is a diet rich in refined processed carbohydrates and saturated and trans fats which is very bad for us, high in refined sugar, salt, wheat and dairy, all of which are causing great sickness and bad health among people. Humans simply havent evolved to eat these things, nor on such a regular and high intake basis, and not cooked either. The SAD or typical average diet of us Europeans and Americans has shown to be lacking in natural healthy foods such as fruit and veg(consisting of greens, blossoms [like cauliflower, broccoli], roots, stems), nuts and seeds and most people dont drink enough water also which has even been put into its own group of nutrition as water is so important to us. It's no wonder the human race is a weakened and sick species. Anthropologists have even said the human species is on the decline from a physical perspective.

I read cancer cases only 100 years ago were between 1 in 2500 and 1 in 8000. Now they are 1 in 2.5 and rising, estimated to go to 1 in 2 soon enough and overtake heart disease as the number 1 killer. Funnily though, wild animals on natural uncooked diets full of nutritious foods (cooking destroys many of the vital nutrients and life force of food as well as creating new molecules which cause cancer and a whole host of other disease in our bodies) dont get these sicknesses unless we give them cooked foods. Often they die if we feed them cooked food. I read an experiment was done where calves who naturally drink their mothers cow milk were given pasteurized(heated/cooked) milk and 9 out of 10 of them died in infancy. People have been very uninformed and more so misinformed about what is healthy and not healthy from the time we were born. The media tell us whats good. There's a whole load of corruption and its all about money. "They" are happy to make and keep us sick so they make trillions off us per year. Even companies that sells pesticides that cause disease in us also sells the drugs that lessen the symptoms of this poisoning!

There have been numerable studies and experiments done similar to this and alot more detailed which clearly show that cooked food causes degeneration of all our body organs and parts, causes deadly sickness and ill health, and the effects on the body are much similar to slow cooking ourselves infact. ie our bodies become like how fire would effect other things - less flexible, weakened etc.. It's just lucky us humans are a very hardy species, along with rats and hogs in that we can "get away" with this sort of harmful carry on for a long time without seeing serious effects. Luckily tho, by reverting to our natural raw diets, most or all of the damage can be healed or reversed i have read, even 100% AIDS has been not only reversed but the HIV virus wasnt even found in the blood anymore, along with serious stuff like cancer cured completely also.

Chimpanzees who are our closest relatives and us them( i think about 94.5% and as high as 99.4% genetically the same) eat what would be compared to how we would have eaten for most of our evolution. A high % of fruit, alot of greens, and only some seeds and nuts, along with a tiny% of bark(high fibrous food) and tiny % of insects. They dont eat roots.

Don't just take what i say tho! Im only saying some of the stuff i remember from what i've discovered recently. Check it out for yourself. Get informed If anyone is interested i highly recommend "The Live Food Factor" book(forget who by) and "Green For Life" by Victoria Boutenko. Also do some web searches on raw food. There are loads of other good informative books out there. Some highly recommended ones are "The Sunfood Diet Success System" by David Wolfe, "Conscious Eating" by Dr. Cousens and "Spiritual Nutrition" by Dr. Cousens also.

I can say, after switching to basically 100% food a little over 2 weeks ago it FEELS really good. I have noticed a fair few positive differences with no negative things If you really wanna find out for yourself, why not try it? If you want to be healthier at least, try omitting some of the processed foods and try eat more fresh and organic if possible foods like fruit and veg - greens being of particular importance

Roper

The evolutionary point is often made when talking about other diets such as Paleo or caveman. It's fine and dandy. It also fails to take into account that our life expectancy is now almost 3 times that of paleolithic man.

I'm sure the vetenary experts among us can correct me on this, but doesn't a young gorilla get lots and lots of protein in its first year through milk? As does a human child. If nature is so predisposed to cutting out this middle man, why do we drink protein and fat in the biggest period of growth we ever have?

Also, one of the key factors in the evolution of our brains (that organ that has made us the dominant species) was the eating of meat.

Canis Lupus

The man doesn't BLINK!!!!!

Never listen to the words of a man who doesn't blink! Next thing you know you'll be in a cult making babies with your mother.

Smellyirishman

How does he know there are amino acids in everything he is talking about when apparantly we can't study the things he is talking about? Is he just assuming since he is living proof?

Also, what does "I can out-power 20 year olds up the Sears tower" mean? I thought he got no exercise?

Interesting enough video, but the guy was a little too over zealous.

Tar.Aldarion

Roper wrote: »

The evolutionary point is often made when talking about other diets such as Paleo or caveman. It's fine and dandy. It also fails to take into account that our life expectancy is now almost 3 times that of paleolithic man.

I'm sure the vetenary experts among us can correct me on this, but doesn't a young gorilla get lots and lots of protein in its first year through milk? As does a human child. If nature is so predisposed to cutting out this middle man, why do we drink protein and fat in the biggest period of growth we ever have?

Also, one of the key factors in the evolution of our brains (that organ that has made us the dominant species) was the eating of meat.

We live longer because we have easier lifes, better healthcare and can get nutrients more easily. That is a change in society, nothing more.


As for the video, if you can get the necessary amino acids, there is no need for protein, per se. How feasible it is in our lives... unknown.


He claims there are amino acids in everything, even though he can't prove it.

Roper

Canis Lupus wrote: »

The man doesn't BLINK!!!!!

Never listen to the words of a man who doesn't blink! Next thing you know you'll be in a cult making babies with your mother.

Well, there you go then. QED.:pac:

Seriously though, the reason he doesn't blink is becuse we never used to blink 10,000 years ago. Blinking is a response to the particles in the atmosphere that have only been there since the agricultural revolution, maize and wheat and the like, blowing through the air, irritating our eyeballs. He also doesn't cry, because neolithic man didn't cry either because that was for pussies. He probably has a t-shirt on underneath saying "What would gurhfhgang do?":)

Joking aside, this is pseudo science if ever I heard it. Take what supports you and completely disregard what doesn't suit your needs.

The cancer argument?
Rates of cancer have increased: fact
How many cancer cases are caused by non-diet related issues?- Do you know? I don't. But lets take cancers caused by stress, smoking, alcohol, extreme sedentary living, extreme fatty diets, pollution out of that equation and I wonder what we're left with. I'm well aware that these are not just of the last century but they are, in the main, 20th Century factors.

The last bit of advice you give has nothing to do with eating raw food. It's the standard advice that anyone concerned with diet would give.

Roper

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

We live longer because we have easier lifes, better healthcare and can get nutrients more easily. That is a change in society, nothing more.

And the main change was.... diet. Our ability to make enough food for everyone plus some left over.

g'em

Oh... my... gawd. What an egotistical, facetitious, ill-informed, sensationalist, gaunt-looking twat-head.

The Raw Food debate is actually a very, very interesting one, but when it's delivered to me in that kind of American Infomercial über excitable way where there's ridiculously wild claims and "facts" thrown out in every sentence I couldn't give a rats arse what the content is, I won't like it. Grow a pair and speak to your audience like human beings not five year olds dude.

The Raw Food movement started way back in the early 19th Century by one of the original health food pioneers, Sylverster Graham when he suggested that humans might never become ill if they ate only raw food. Unfortuantely his ideas, while visionary, were more than a little idealist.

Here's the thing - we're meant to eat cooked food. We've been cooking for the last 250,000 years and our bodies are fully adapted around that. Yer man in the video is unfortunately talking out of his "I build muscle without even trying!!" arse when he says that cooking destroys the enzymes our bodies could potentially use in our food. Raw foodies claim that food that is cooked above 118F will have its enzymes destroyed. But lets go back and do Biology 101 to look at that a bit mroe closely. You eat food. You masticate that food in your mouth where amylase bgins to break down the starches and the polysaccharides. After that initial mechanical and chemical breakdown the food forms a bolus and travels to the stomach via the oesophagus and comes face to face with stomach acid.

If you think that 118F heat will destroy food, that's nothing compared to the almighty destructive power of your stomach juices (raawwwrrrr!!). But the HCl in your tummy is really there to provide good working conditions for one of your primary digestive enzymes: pepsin. As the name suggests the main role of pepsin is to cleave proteins into peptides (which are later broken down into amino acids). So it really doesn't matter a flying fart what temperature your food reaches you at - it gets broken down regardless. We don't eat foods and use all their ingredients as they are; first they must be dissasembled, organised, and reassembled.

The thing is though, some of that dissasembly isn't possible unless the food is cooked first!! Bioavailability, or teh extent to which our bodies can absorb the nutrients in food, is hugely influenced by processing and in many, many cases is actually increased by cooking. Lycopene, an antioxidant found in high concentrations in tomatoes, is a prime example - we know now that it is much easier for our body to absorb lycopene (up to five or six times easier) in tomatoes that have been boiled vs raw tomatoes. In other words, tinned tomatoes provide mroe benefit that raw ones.Eggs are another example. We've all heard the tales of bodybuilders and strongmen drink glasses of raw eggs first thing in the morning, but the bioavailability of a cooked egg is WAY higher that that of a raw one.

It's also been shown in numerous studies that the vitamin loss in cooked foods is small or even negligible depending on the cooking method used; steaming and microwaving are both exceptionally good for retaining nutrients. Conversely the "fresh" produce we buy from the shelves may have been flown from halfway around the world after being force-grown with fertilisers, losing up to 50% of its nutritional content along the way whereas frozen vegetables can be snap frozen at picking retaining all their healthy benefits.

No-one is saying a diet high in vegetables and fruit isn't good - it's brilliant, but once again we have to revert back to the idea of everything being in moderation and quite simply the raw food diet just doesn't provide enough of the nutrients that our body so desperately needs.

cormie wrote: »

Do the vegetarians you know eat enough to get their "protein" elsewhere?

Actually yes, many veggies I know supplement their diets with protein shakes and they eat nuts, seeds and some dairy in abundance.

cormie wrote:

Meat may have protein, b12 etc, but it's also got a lot of other crap in it.

Raw foodists have been shown to have an increased risk of B12 deficiency, lower bone density, and women are commonly at risk of amenhorrea.

cormie wrote:

I don't think it sounds like he's bull****ting myself

He is.

cormie wrote:

Sounds like they are facts he's stating.

They're not.

cormie wrote:

it makes sense and so far nobody has been able to challenge what he's been saying with anything other than he sounds like he's on crack.

It makes "sense" that if I wanted to lose weight, I'd stop eating. But anyone with even the most basic knowledge of body biochemsitry will know that that's a complete mistruth. Please trust me, while the Raw Food movement does have some benefits (again, eating more fruit and vegetables isn't a bad thing) any diet that involves an extreme nutrition plan tends to be unsustainable and long-term unhealthy.

tribulus

I would argue he's talking shiite. He certainly can't use himself as an example, he has no muscle! Nor does he define what out-powering 20 year olds is lol.

He also talks about how he just takes in enzymes from all his food and how enzymes are "complex chains of amino acids". Eh proteins are also complex chains of amino acids.

The implication seems to be that AA's in enzymes are just floating around ready for use where as AA's in meat aren't. By his own definition the enzymes would need to be broken down too to assimilate the amino's. His main argument for not eating meat and using raw food was how it's tough to break down the bonds and it takes a long time. Aside from perhaps post-training why is that such a bad thing anyway? (That's rhetorical). You'd probably get more protein from one chicken breast than he does in a day but oh noes you'll get cancer etc.

He comes across as a bit sensationalist tbh, preying on the ill-informed. Maybe there are a few endurance type athletes that can be successful with eating apples for their protein sources but I'd be amazed if there were any half decent sprinters or weightlifters or any sport that required some muscle that followed this guy's ideas.

Edit: I think too slow and type even slower, stealing thunder etc.

g'em

Divinkee wrote: »

Nice post niceonetom Gorillas as the extremely strong and the strongest primates and live on nearly 100% raw food diet.

It's a gorilla. We're humans. Ickle bunny wabbits have sex multiple times a day. In order to increase our sex drive should we then start to eat our own shite? (Google "copraphagy" at your peril...). We have different digestice systems to other primates, we're omnivores, not herbivores and gorillas eat... all.. day... long.

Divinkee wrote:

Yup, humans lived on a natural, unprocessed, uncooked "raw food" diet for millions of years and we survived. Anthropologists have found healthy skeleton remains from our ancestors before cooked foods came into our diets suggesting our diet was very healthy.

You can't compare the skeletons of early hominids, hominoids or hominines to us in the same way you can't compare us and gorillas - different species.

Divinkee wrote:

The SAD which is pretty much the same as European and Irish diets is a diet rich in refined processed carbohydrates and saturated and trans fats which is very bad for us, high in refined sugar, salt, wheat and dairy, all of which are causing great sickness and bad health among people. Humans simply havent evolved to eat these things, nor on such a regular and high intake basis, and not cooked either. The SAD or typical average diet of us Europeans and Americans has shown to be lacking in natural healthy foods such as fruit and veg(consisting of greens, blossoms [like cauliflower, broccoli], roots, stems), nuts and seeds and most people dont drink enough water also which has even been put into its own group of nutrition as water is so important to us. It's no wonder the human race is a weakened and sick species. Anthropologists have even said the human species is on the decline from a physical perspective.

I absolutely agree - but why go to the other extreme, why not just cut out processed foods?

Divinkee wrote:

I read cancer cases only 100 years ago were between 1 in 2500 and 1 in 8000. Now they are 1 in 2.5 and rising, estimated to go to 1 in 2 soon enough and overtake heart disease as the number 1 killer.

Smoking, drinking, pollution, smoking....

Divinkee wrote:

Funnily though, wild animals on natural uncooked diets full of nutritious foods (cooking destroys many of the vital nutrients and life force of food as well as creating new molecules which cause cancer and a whole host of other disease in our bodies) dont get these sicknesses unless we give them cooked foods.

ROFL Animals don't get cancer in the wild?

You seem to keep talking about the dangers of processed foods - but how does this argue in favour of Raw Foodism? It simply enahnces the belief that a diet devoid of processed foods is healthier.

Divinkee wrote:

There have been numerable studies and experiments done similar to this and alot more detailed which clearly show that cooked food causes degeneration of all our body organs and parts, causes deadly sickness and ill health, and the effects on the body are much similar to slow cooking ourselves infact. ie our bodies become like how fire would effect other things - less flexible, weakened etc..

Show me. Claims that grandiose need to be backed up.

Divinkee wrote:

Luckily tho, by reverting to our natural raw diets, most or all of the damage can be healed or reversed i have read, even 100% AIDS has been not only reversed but the HIV virus wasnt even found in the blood anymore, along with serious stuff like cancer cured completely also.

See above. Papers or gtfo.

Divinkee wrote:

Chimpanzees who are our closest relatives and us them( i think about 94.5% and as high as 99.4% genetically the same) eat what would be compared to how we would have eaten for most of our evolution. A high % of fruit, alot of greens, and only some seeds and nuts, along with a tiny% of bark(high fibrous food) and tiny % of insects. They dont eat roots.

lol, have you any idea how huge a difference the 0.6% difference accounts for? See gorilla discussion.

Divinkee wrote:

I can say, after switching to basically 100% food a little over 2 weeks ago it FEELS really good. I have noticed a fair few positive differences with no negative things If you really wanna find out for yourself, why not try it? If you want to be healthier at least, try omitting some of the processed foods and try eat more fresh and organic if possible foods like fruit and veg - greens being of particular importance

Indeed. Maybe, just maybe, your new-found well being is less to do with raw foods and mroe to do with cutting out the shite from your diet? Just a hunch... good luck with it though. Come back in a few motnhs and let us know how your new raw lifestyle is going.

Pherekydes

niceonetom wrote: »

this guy lives on a raw food diet and doesn't seem to have a problem building up muscle mass

Good argument! His IQ is a bit low compared to the cooked-meat-eating cousins, though.

Here's a guy who's almost pure muscle and he eats nowt but animal protein:



As mentioned above, scientists believe that eating cooked meat had a significant part to play in the development of our brains.

Divinkee

I dont think we've evolved to consume cooked foods perfectly at all and i 10,000 to 20,000 years is far too little to do so. Studies have shown the harmful effects of cooked foods only very recently in fact. Eating cooked food is highly taxing on our digestive systems and takes loads of energy. Apart from that it's harmful and has been shown to be so.

The reason life expectancy is higher now is cause life was tougher then but most of all because higher infancy death in the past seriously effected the averages. It's a misleading fact.

Yes, raw foodists may have lower bone density on average but its not to say they are at higher risk of fracture. The bone made from raw good quality natural foods is supposed to make the bone(as it does muscle) of a higher quality. Also, as raw foodists are on average slimmer, this is another reason why they may have a lower bone density - simply because they weigh less.

Eating raw foods is supposed to build muscle slower but of a better quality. Studies among athletes who switched to raw showed they all had better performance, better reflexes, better aerobic and anaerobic ability and more..

Vitamin B12 is the only issue, and this is presumed that it's because the soils are so demineralized that the food that's eaten is lacking in the essential cobalt.

Read a few raw food books and find out more. Most of the stuff people are saying is what mainstream society has taught them all their lives and it's mostly misinformation and nonsense IMHO. People are sick. Look all around you. Try out a raw food diet and see how you feel.

tribulus

Divinkee wrote: »

Yes, raw foodists may have lower bone density on average but its not to say they are at higher risk of fracture. The bone made from raw good quality natural foods is supposed to make the bone(as it does muscle) of a higher quality. Also, as raw foodists are on average slimmer, this is another reason why they may have a lower bone density - simply because they weigh less.

A big massive WTF to that, more so than the rest of your post.
Seriously if you're gonna make these claims you have to back it up not just say "there are studies".

There are studies out there that conclusively show that I am in fact, destined to be ruler of the World.

I'm not going to link to them though.

g'em

Divinkee wrote: »

Studies have shown the harmful effects of cooked foods only very recently in fact.

Papers?

Divinkee wrote:

Eating cooked food is highly taxing on our digestive systems and takes loads of energy. Apart from that it's harmful and has been shown to be so.

Where?

Divinkee wrote:

Also, as raw foodists are on average slimmer, this is another reason why they may have a lower bone density - simply because they weigh less.

True. And being so underwight that a high proportion of raw food devotees stop getting periods is good how?

Divinkee wrote:

Eating raw foods is supposed to build muscle slower but of a better quality.

orly?

Divinkee wrote:

Studies among athletes who switched to raw showed they all had better performance, better reflexes, better aerobic and anaerobic ability and more..

Now that I would love to read.

Divinkee wrote:

Vitamin B12 is the only issue, and this is presumed that it's because the soils are so demineralized that the food that's eaten is lacking in the essential cobalt.

erm.. no. It's because B12 is found mostly in animal products which the raw food idet is devoid of.

Divinkee wrote:

Read a few raw food books and find out more. Most of the stuff people are saying is what mainstream society has taught them all their lives and it's mostly misinformation and nonsense IMHO. People are sick. Look all around you. Try out a raw food diet and see how you feel.

I probably won't tnx. I'll stick to my peer-reviewed journals, years of scientifc research and general common sense.

If you feel I'm being facetious... I am. Those are some massive claims you're making there Divinkee and until I see some actual evidence and not pulling-it-out-of-my-ass-itis I'll continue to be so.

Edit:

tribulus wrote:

There are studies out there that conclusively show that I am in fact, destined to be ruler of the World.

I'm not going to link to them though.

ROFL

Divinkee

Its what ive read from someone who has studied a great deal and personally tried the raw food diet herself. She is author of book "the live food factor".

She describes what she read in "Archives of Internal Medicine" vol. 165, Issue 6, March 28 2005 pp. 684-689, PubMed ID 15795346 by Dr. Luigi, MD,who led a study on "low bone mass on a long term raw vegetarian diet".

It makes simple sense anyway if we simply think about it ourselves using our own common sense. We've evolved on a simple raw diet for the vast majority of our evolution, free from countless added toxins and free from cooked food. [It's been proven undoubtedly (but not common knowledge cause that would mean loss of trillions to the big food and drug companies) that cooked and processed food is really bad for us] The raw natural foods are abundant in all the things we need - clean water, vitamins, minerals, trace elements, enzymes, fibre, biophotons, protein and carbohydrates. ABUNDANT!

I dont have time to go back up everything im saying with references! :P People need to uncover the truth and go search and try things out for themselves instead of believe and live by the nonsense we've been spoon fed all our lives. Society, the world and people are phucked up. We should question everything IMO and make up our own minds rather than follow doctrine that's been layed before us mindlessly.

Divinkee

Yes gem, a raw vegan diet is mostly devoid of vitamin B12. I was speaking from my own perspective (having raw vegan diet)there sorry!

If raw vegans eat unwashed greens etc that are organic, they should get a substantial amount of vitB12 from the insects and insect eggs! And if the ground wasnt so devoid of cobalt, then vitB12 would be much more available to raw vegans who dont take animal products.

But eating raw meat or other animal products should supply an ample amount of vitB12 alright So it's only if you're a raw vegan that vitB12 becomes an issue.

tribulus

You can't say this

Divinkee wrote: »

[It's been proven undoubtedly (but not common knowledge cause that would mean loss of trillions to the big food and drug companies) that cooked and processed food is really bad for us]

And then say this

Divinkee wrote: »

I dont have time to go back up everything im saying with references! :P

And I'm questioning your claims because frankly I think you're full of it

Divinkee wrote: »

We should question everything IMO and make up our own minds rather than follow doctrine that's been layed before us mindlessly.

Mikel

Divinkee wrote: »

I read cancer cases only 100 years ago were between 1 in 2500 and 1 in 8000. Now they are 1 in 2.5 and rising,

This kind of reasoning is common but completely wrong headed. How does anyone know what the rate of cancer was 100 years ago? Was it commonly diagnosed or understood? EVEN IF that statistic were true, maybe its because life expectancy was lower and people got killed by TB instead. You could apply the same reasoning to alzheimers, but alzheimers is a recent enough affliction, you need to live long enough to get it

Divinkee wrote: »

by reverting to our natural raw diets, most or all of the damage can be healed or reversed i have read, even 100% AIDS has been not only reversed but the HIV virus wasnt even found in the blood anymore, along with serious stuff like cancer cured completely also.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Seriously, read what you're saying. Raw food cures cancer... and AIDS!
Jesus H Christ.

Divinkee wrote: »

I dont have time to go back up everything im saying with references! :P People need to uncover the truth and go search and try things out for themselves instead of believe and live by the nonsense we've been spoon fed all our lives. Society, the world and people are phucked up. We should question everything IMO and make up our own minds rather than follow doctrine that's been layed before us mindlessly.

You might want to follow your own advice...
Now, repeat after me....
Broccolli does not cure Aids
Broccolli does not cure Aids
Broccolli does not cure Aids.....

g'em

Divinkee, thank you for brightening up my Saturday morning - I haven't laughed this hard in weeks

Divinkee wrote: »

If raw vegans eat unwashed greens etc that are organic, they should get a substantial amount of vitB12 from the insects and insect eggs!

But hang on, vegans, by definition, don't eat animals. Since when were insects not animals? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THINK OF THE BEETLES PEOPLE!!!! Besides which that's the most hilarious explanation for vegan protein derviation I think I've ever heard...

Divinkee

Tribulus how can I back up what i've read in this forum?

I tried giving the book that was read from the author of the book im reading right now - not alot more than that i do im afraid ;0)

i think alot of what im mentioning is undeniable by authorities, yet not common knowledge for money purposes - such as cooked food destroying alot of nutrients, processed foods have added ingredients ( many that dont even have to be labelled) that are toxic and harm causing to the body and that natural foods like fruits, veg, nuts, seeds are packed full of wondrous nutrients.

Anyway, people can believe what they want. New stuff like some of the stuff im mentioning will of course sound crazy cause its not what we've been led to believe all our lives, and it would require an open mind to question it or follow it up.

If anyone is interested, it's easy enough to delve deeper as there are many books and sites which are very informative.

Divinkee

lol

gem, they would be dead by the way presuming they are in your cabbage! yeah many vegans wouldnt kill insects if easily avoidable but many would. But im guessing the produce wouldnt be crawling with live beetles while you're munching on it! lol

glad i gave ya a laugh though ;0)

Hanley

Am I the only one getting tired of this evolution argument every time a new diet crops up saying we should eat like cave men??

I mean what chance are we actually giving evolution if we're so crazed about going backwards and living like out ancestors?

Maybe we should put the oil back in the ground, I'll turn out the lights if you'll dispose of the antibiotics and medical reasearch. Steve can burn Einstein's work and I'll destory all of Leo Da Vinci's.

You'd swear the human race was destined to self destruct in the next 10 years and only the raw food diet can save us if you were to listen to some of the arguments in this thread.

And trying to use a gorilla as proof that a raw food diet can build muscle....? Ridiculous. These guys look like raw foodists, lets see how much muscle mass they have... (and lets not forget they're closer relations)

It must be their diet. Or maybe they're not genetically predisposed to gaining as much muscle as say a silver back gorilla. Genetics?? Couldn't be??

g'em

Divinkee wrote: »

gem, they would be dead by the way presuming they are in your cabbage! yeah many vegans wouldnt kill insects if easily avoidable but many would. But im guessing the produce wouldnt be crawling with live beetles while you're munching on it! lol

Discriminate vegan baxstards tbh. Since when is it ok to eat dead crickets and not dead cows?

There's just no justice in the world.

t-ha

Why was that dude holding himself up as an example of how much muscle you can build without cooking food & eating meat? I mean, the dude looks like a pencil!

Also, as someone who has gone on diets a fair bit to cut or make weight for competitions I can give you a heads up about something that happens when you're calories get very low. Your body starts to release increased amounts of catabolic hormones and other chemicals and neuro-chemicals (epinephrine, noreinephrine, dopamine, cortisol, glucagon, adrenaline, melatonin etc.). This makes you feel very alert, energetic & sometimes a little bit out of it (in a good way). I think that someone engaging on a new, probably very low calorie, diet like this would need to take that into account when deciding how the diet makes them feel - as those things I've mentioned, while great, are synonymous with your body breaking itself down for calories and it's not really healthy or good for sports performance IMO.

BTW, I changed my diet to a vegan diet about a month ago and interestingly I haven't had any trouble building myself up & my recovery times are better than ever. I don't know what my protein intake is like these days but it's definitely way down on what it used to be. It is wierd researching the diet a bit and finding yourself banded in with raw foodists & breathenarians though. TBH if it was only about optimum nutrition I'd eat meat.

On the evolution thing - I wish people would learn more about evolution in general. Just because we did a certain thing a long time ago that doesn't make it optimal, it simply means that we managed to survive long enough to make babies in our environment of the time. All animals eat what they can to survive and being omnivores, humans can eat and digest virtually everything. Also, while I'm no expert in matters of DNA I know that we're not gorillaz or chimps and that DNA can't be compared in a linear fashion like that (don't we share a higher % of DNA with some kind of fly than with chimps?). I could as easily throw up a picture of a lion and point out how amazing it is that they can be so strong, fast & agile eating nothing but meat. Different creature.

One last thing: raw carrots taste way better than cooked carrots. Now that's science!

Roper

Divinkee wrote: »

The reason life expectancy is higher now is cause life was tougher then but most of all because higher infancy death in the past seriously effected the averages. It's a misleading fact.

I'm pretty sure life expectancy and infant mortality rates are distinct. But hey fvck it, you've already said raw food cures AIDS so why not go the whole hog. You need to start producing some peer reviewed science because your credibility is plummeting.

Roper

t-ha wrote: »

One last thing: raw carrots taste way better than cooked carrots. Now that's science!

No, that's mingin.

Well I for one am delighted that a conspiracy theorist has graced this board. For a while, I had forgotten it was the internet.

Fella, like it or not, scientists are not all sitting in food company labs, thinking of ways to poison us. Now I think you've had your six and you can't back up any of these bullsh1t claims with ANY references. So I think you need to go read this site www.randi.org and in particular pay attention to the articles on things like perpetual motion (self replenishing energy) which, in my view, bear a remarkable resemblance to many of the perfect diet arguments I've heard.

To be frank, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for falling for such claims such as cancer and HIV cures on the basis of one book. Did you not think about reading further, about going to a library? I could buy a book (actually lots of books) tomorrow which will tell me that the first law of thermodynamics is rubbish, or that the Holocaust never happened, or that the world is run by a room full of men who meet once per year.

t-ha

Question: where did AIDS come from in the first place?
Answer: strains of Simian immunodeficiency virus infected us, the most likely origins being Mangabeys and Chimpanzees. They eat lots of raw food.

Edit: Hey Roper, remember these guys? Now what ever happened to that?!

Edwardius

Errr... a gorilla has an extra few feet of digestive tract, this allows him to break down whatever roots and shoots he eats. This system is more energy consuming than a human's, leading to a comprimise in the makeup of the gorilla. THis comprimise: he has **** for brains. You can compare a lot of things between gorillas and humans but you can't infer that we're the same in all regards especially when it's in the context of where we're most different. You can't run a big brain and a huge digestive system at the same time.
Also, is there any evidence that early humans were ever raw food veggies? Loren Cordain has done some serious work on this topic (http://www.thepaleodiet.com/). Results? Meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, fruit, similar to today's diet without the **** (studies done on the present day ache hunter gatherers, evidence gathered from fossilised faecal remains and looking at evidence of what was available at the time.) Is he right? maybe, but at least there is some evidence to justify his statements.

The main thing about this raw-food quackery that concerns me is... where does the fat come from? Humans can run without carbs (glucose can be manufactured in the liver to run the brain, ketones can also serve this purpose) but as well as essential amino acids, there's essential fatty acids and I see no source of these. the guy seems to eat no sat. fat and no nuts or seeds.

Also, is there anything showing exactly what he eats? does he eat ten apples a day or a hundred etc? Who does he compete against when he's outpowering 20 year olds? It seems fishy that he can gain muscle from doing nothing, I don't see raw veg as a source of HGH.

One more thing, OP, there's no point in coming onto a board, making a statement based on what your mate told you that flies in the face of common sense and providing no backup for it. were you trying to cause a reaction, inform people about it or just trying to be different? The only way anything constructive can come from this thread is if someone starts a food-log detailing their raw-food intake and looking at the results of it over a few months (black box it). I don't see why you'd champion such a thing without having experience trying it yourself. If it works, well done, if it doesn't, fair enough but don't argue for it unless you have something other than the word of some quack from t'internet

davyjose

cormie wrote: »

Do you not believe what he's saying or something?

Zing!!! You got me.

Roper

t-ha wrote: »

Edit: Hey Roper, remember these guys? Now what ever happened to that?!

LOL, the Randi site is down for some reason but they were lucky enough to be featured in Swift a few months back witht he usual snake oil rebuttal.

cormie

Dead Ed wrote: »

One more thing, OP, there's no point in coming onto a board, making a statement based on what your mate told you that flies in the face of common sense and providing no backup for it. were you trying to cause a reaction, inform people about it or just trying to be different? The only way anything constructive can come from this thread is if someone starts a food-log detailing their raw-food intake and looking at the results of it over a few months (black box it). I don't see why you'd champion such a thing without having experience trying it yourself. If it works, well done, if it doesn't, fair enough but don't argue for it unless you have something other than the word of some quack from t'internet

I don't think I've made any statements in this thread. As I've said, I titled the thread based on what the guy said in the video, not my own belief, perhaps I should have put quotation marks around it

The poster Divinkee is my friend I mentioned and the reason for posting the thread, as I have said already, is to get both sides of the story.

It's good to see the thread has developed into an actual discussion on it anyway and has had some interesting points made (what I was hoping for). I don't start threads for ****s n giggles, check my thread starting history if you need "evidence" of that :pac:

cowzerp

i do believe cancer can be reversed by eating this sort of diet, but its more about cutting out the crap thats in processed foods, the same could be applied if you just eat non processed foods, long term your body is shagged without protein, Aids is a different matter and as of yet there is no known cure so this is just guessing..

and suggesting that bugs in your uncleaned veg is how you get your b12 is stupid and not vegan anyway, your eating animals just like the cow eaters in that case, better eating quality meats than bugs by accident!!

Phaetonman

i do believe cancer can be reversed by eating this sort of diet,

I've read some rubbish on this site in my time but this takes the crown.