12 Essential rules to live more like a zen monk

Asiaprod

Khannie wrote: »

I'm a bit late checking back in here but...



I'd say it's a bit of an in-joke. I'm guessing though..... I'm learning about Buddhism at the moment and one of the "truths" of buddhism is suffering. I think he was saying "when you realise this, you'll find joy" but it's a bit of a contradiction / catch 22 kinda thing.

amirite?

Yes, Jon answered very well. We must accept it for what it is and transcend it. We try to see it as an oportunity for growth

ntlbell wrote: »

I would of thought that had a lot to do with acceptance..[and]...So instead of wallowing in your own self pitty and with the "why me" brigade you accept the suffering and can move on then with enjoying your life.

I'm no monk tho..

At this rate, you could soon become one:) Buddhism recognizes that there are four sufferings that we cannot escape from Birth, Sickness, Old Age and Death. This is the circle of life.

KatCookie

Interesting... i must get out my book again for another read, (its not the greatest book for leaning from though i must admit). nice pictures though..

Khannie

Jon wrote: »

the happiness we know of as human beings is not true happiness

I have to disagree with that. In my life, I have experienced true happiness more than once. Most recently sitting at the breakfast table, quiet morning, my daughter on my knee, drinking a nice mug of coffee, both of us eating a tasty breakfast, me feeding her, not another thought in the world except "this is lovely".

Surely it's possible to have moments of true happiness like that?

Asiaprod

Khannie wrote: »

Surely it's possible to have moments of true happiness like that?

Yes,but I will let Jon explain first:)

yomchi

Khannie wrote: »

I have to disagree with that. In my life, I have experienced true happiness more than once. Most recently sitting at the breakfast table, quiet morning, my daughter on my knee, drinking a nice mug of coffee, both of us eating a tasty breakfast, me feeding her, not another thought in the world except "this is lovely".

Surely it's possible to have moments of true happiness like that?

Hi Khannie,
Now thats a tough one to go up against, moments of sheer bliss! And perhaprs a very zen moment indeed
I think the best way to understand my point on that would be to look at one of the Buddha's 3 universal truths;

Everything Changes

The second universal truth of the Buddha is that everything is continuously changing. Life is like a river flowing on and on, ever-changing. Sometimes it flows slowly and sometimes swiftly. It is smooth and gentle in some places, but later on snags and rocks crop up out of nowhere. As soon as we think we are safe, something unexpected happens.

That kind of happiness you experienced is something we all cherish, so much so that when it leaves us for a while and we encounter 'snags and rocks' which brings on aversion, a want of detachment if you like from life's problems. Which inevitably fosters a sense of attachment to the things that make us 'feel' happy , and with all things being impermenent, devoid of any true meaning and being dependant on certain conditions, what we attach to for happiness inevitably leaves us. Which perpetuates the cycle of samsara.
I suppose I could say, while those moments with your daughter are bliss, wait till her beautiful face is bringing smelly teenage boys to the door :)

I hope I made some sort of sense!

yomchi

Asiaprod wrote: »

Yes,but I will let Jon explain first:)

You are a hard teacher..

Khannie

Jon wrote: »

I hope I made some sort of sense!

It did yeah. What I would say though is this: You can't really experience happiness without understanding what pain / unhappiness is. It's a bit like: You can't truly appreciate being healthy until you've been sick.

(I think) I wouldn't want to live life in a constant state of happiness like that as I think it would take away from the moments that you do experience it.

Anyway....I'm glad it's ok to be happy.

ntlbell

Jon wrote: »

H
I suppose I could say, while those moments with your daughter are bliss, wait till her beautiful face is bringing smelly teenage boys to the door :)

I hope I made some sort of sense!

But was he happy during that moment? or did he just attach himself to what his "mind" reality thinks should make him happy?

So when the smelly teenage boy arrives he's hit a snag, now what would make him happy would be a non smelly well dressed boy for his daughter so he then attaches that and IF that happened then he would be happy as he was attached to his wants for his daughter?

It's all so confusing :mad:

yomchi

Khannie wrote: »

It did yeah. What I would say though is this: You can't really experience happiness without understanding what pain / unhappiness is. It's a bit like: You can't truly appreciate being healthy until you've been sick.

(I think) I wouldn't want to live life in a constant state of happiness like that as I think it would take away from the moments that you do experience it.

Anyway....I'm glad it's ok to be happy.

Pretty much, although it's heading into duality discussion there!
But yeh, thats why (according to the history) an Indian prince left his royal life in search of answers, in the end becoming the historical Buddha!

You can't truly appreciate being healthy until you've been sick

Or you can't appreciate being sick, until you've felt healthy

I wouldn't want to live life in a constant state of happiness like that as I think it would take away from the moments that you do experience it

Thats an interesting take. turning down a life time, for a moment... now thats Zen!;)

yomchi

ntlbell wrote: »

But was he happy during that moment? or did he just attach himself to what his "mind" reality thinks should make him happy?

So when the smelly teenage boy arrives he's hit a snag, now what would make him happy would be a non smelly well dressed boy for his daughter so he then attaches that and IF that happened then he would be happy as he was attached to his wants for his daughter?

It's all so confusing :mad:

I'm having fun answering these, but please don't take my meanderings as any solid fact, or even anything based on experience, there are much more learned folk here than me, who are no doubt observing mindfully

So when the smelly teenage boy arrives he's hit a snag, now what would make him happy would be a non smelly well dressed boy for his daughter so he then attaches that and IF that happened then he would be happy as he was attached to his wants for his daughter?

now that he's happy a non smelly teenage boy arrives at his door, he's worried in case the non smelly teenage boy decides to leave her. For every up there's a down, a constant flux of emotions. The attachment to happiness as we know it, creates more suffering and frustration.

Maybe a better example, without bringing Khannie's father hood through the thread would be the buying of a new car;
I think most of us have been there, the feeling of having a brand new car, you relish in it, you bring it everywhere, show it off and all your friends share in your happiness of the new car. You polish it, and treat it like a baby.
For a while you're over the moon.
Then the repayments start, you find yourself having to work longer hours to make the repayments, taking away from family time. Then petrol goes up, hitting finances more. Then some silly ass scratches it, your over protectiveness drives you crazy. You miss a payment and the pressure starts. You're concerned over where you park it, incase it gets broken into and so on... suddenly that item that brought you a short term feeling of self and happiness is now causing you heart ache. The happiness is impermanent, that is the nature of things.

ntlbell

Jon wrote: »

I'
Maybe a better example, without bringing Khannie's father hood through the thread would be the buying of a new car;
I think most of us have been there, the feeling of having a brand new car, you relish in it, you bring it everywhere, show it off and all your friends share in your happiness of the new car. You polish it, and treat it like a baby.
For a while you're over the moon.
Then the repayments start, you find yourself having to work longer hours to make the repayments, taking away from family time. Then petrol goes up, hitting finances more. Then some silly ass scratches it, your over protectiveness drives you crazy. You miss a payment and the pressure starts. You're concerned over where you park it, incase it gets broken into and so on... suddenly that item that brought you a short term feeling of self and happiness is now causing you heart ache. The happiness is impermanent, that is the nature of things.

I'll drive you mad

I understand the cycle of how it brings you "suffering" (the car)

But are you actually happy when you purchase the car? is what you're feeling there happiness? regardless of the fact you might be in a world of pain down the road you're generally not thinking of those things at the time you purchase it or first sit in it. But are you really happy at that moment in time when you buy it?

Or are is it just attachment to what your "mind" reaility thinks will make you happy?

Am i making any sense?

yomchi

I understand the cycle of how it brings you "suffering" (the car)

Not the car, but the state of mind!

But are you actually happy when you purchase the car?

Conditionally happy maybe? Depending the person

Or are is it just attachment to what your "mind" reaility thinks will make you happy

The reality of mind trancends attachment, the mind of 'reality' is the problem...enter the ego!

Am i making any sense?

alot more than I am i think!!

Asiaprod

Khannie wrote:

Surely it's possible to have moments of true happiness like that?

You just had one, and will have many more like this. It is both OK, and wonderful, to be happy. Enjoy the moment. You can't truly appreciate being happy till you experience being happy.

Jon wrote:

You are a hard teacher..

I am no teacher, I have just fcuked up more times than you and learned from my suffering

ntbell wrote:

But was he happy during that moment? or did he just attach himself to what his "mind" reality thinks should make him happy?

Sounds to me like he was really happy

ntbell wrote:

So when the smelly teenage boy arrives he's hit a snag, now what would make him happy would be a non smelly well dressed boy for his daughter so he then attaches that and IF that happened then he would be happy as he was attached to his wants for his daughter?

What would make him really happy would be for him to see his daughter happy

the last word goes to

ntbell wrote:

It's all so confusing

Actually no, we make it confusing.

To all, please remember that Buddhism is all about making us happy in THIS life too. This concept of suffering now to attain happiness at some future time or some different place is a carry over from our indoctrination into the Judeo-Christian beliefs. The Buddha set out to find a way for us to be happy in this life by overcoming the suffering we experience now.

You are doing very well Jon:)

KatCookie

Khannie, i'm back, i think i needed calming down after your wan in the pets thread, (where you told me to come back to get some Zen). Some people just ....... **mutters**
She hears me, but isnt listening..

Khannie wrote: »

Anyway....I'm glad it's ok to be happy.

if it wasnt ok, i'd be running away from this religion shouting and burning books!!!
...
but hey, what do you know, i'm back..

Must relearn everything i've forgotten, i think ive forgotten how to spell Buddha.. (theres a "H" ..right?)

ntlbell

KatCookie wrote: »

if it wasnt ok, i'd be running away from this religion shouting and burning books!!!
...
but hey, what do you know, i'm back..

Must relearn everything i've forgotten, i think ive forgotten how to spell Buddha.. (theres a "H" ..right?)

Hi Kat,

What do you mean you're back? were you practising buddhism and stopped?

KatCookie

Nope, not practicing, just trying to make myeslf less ignorant of other cultures/lifestyles/religions!
i came where a while ago, but it it seemed a bit empty at the time/i lost interest in all religions . loadsa of reasons why i hadnt visited here.. but i think i'm back now!!

Asiaprod

KatCookie wrote: »

loadsa of reasons why i hadnt visited here.. but i think i'm back now!!

Welcome again

KatCookie

Thank you..

Khannie

KatCookie wrote: »

Khannie, i'm back, i think i needed calming down after your wan in the pets thread, (where you told me to come back to get some Zen). Some people just ....... **mutters**
She hears me, but isnt listening..

Hehe. I got a good laugh out of that thread. Some good quips from both of you in it. Looked fairly frustrating though.

Welcome back. I only pop in here from time to time myself. I'm interested in buddhism, but I don't think it's the solution to all, or even most of lifes problems. One thing I will say though: I spent 3 weeks in Thailand in March and by jesus they seemed a lot more content to me than the average punter over here despite having less of everything that we'd consider important.

KatCookie

Well...i've always wanted a Zen garden.. maybe one day..

that "by jesus" comment seems a bit funny there..

Mervatron

That's a fantastic article.

Im gonna print it out and stick it up next to me desk.

[-0-]

Great article Khannie. I have been practising Zen Buddhism for several years now, but I would not call myself a Buddhist. I take the good things from Zen Buddhism, so that I am content. Like Asiaprod, I have made many mistakes in the past...but what would be the point in dwelling on them? Buddhism is helping me live a better life.

Thank you.

KamikazeKenny81

I saw these 12 rules a few days ago and found them very interesting. Most of the buddhist teachings I have read or seen have been Tibetan but I liked the sound of these so I gave them a go.

They went really well, I have been focusing on 1 thing at a time and making sure I finish each task before moving on to the next one. My problem is I think Ive become carried away with my productivity. Today I started a number of tasks and came up against different things that ment that task had to be put off until tomorrow, understandably I became increasingly frustrated

What does Zen say about what to do if the task you start can not be completed?

ntlbell

KamikazeKenny81 wrote: »

What does Zen say about what to do if the task you start can not be completed?

I was thinking about this myself a few weeks ago when I first read the article.

The only conclusion I came to was you let go you understand that it's out of your control let go of any frustrations and move on to the next most important task until such time the last one can be completed.

I guess when it comes working in todays moderen society you have to try and adjust these "guidelines" to try and suit your circumstances but the most important part I would assume is not letting the frustration affect your well being.

understand why it can't be finish and let go..

ntlbell

he covers it a bit in no 4

Do it completely. Put your mind completely on the task. Don’t move on to the next task until you’re finished. If, for some reason, you have no choice but to move on to something else, try to at least put away the unfinished task and clean up after yourself. If you prepare a sandwich, don’t start eating it until you’ve put away the stuff you used to prepare it, wiped down the counter, and washed the dishes used for preparation. Then you’re done with that task, and can focus more completely on the next task.

KamikazeKenny81

Cheers ntl, I had a re-read yesterday alright and it highlighted some of my mistakes. It goes to show how different people take different things from the same set of instructions, I had infact only taken on a few pointers and I will be sure to check back to them again in a few days to ensure I havent forgotten bits.

It sounds obvious when u explain the need for overcoming frustration, its like everything i guess, was looking and hoping for an easy answer. The answer is obvious, achieving it is much harder.