Guide - the Budget Gaming PC

Solitaire

Most mobos do full 7.1 through optical-out. Don't mix up optical (TOSLink) and SPDIF; the latter is often quite badly implemented. Most PC-oriented speaker sets usually use multiple 3.5mm dipole jacks to hook up anyway; if its an active speaker set that's not specifically for PC and its decent it should have an optical-in on the amp/sub anyway! You only need a sound card for audiophile-grade sound; otherwise onboard is fine, just make sure the mobo has a RealTek 7.1 channel setup (not VIA!) and an optical output, and make sure the intended speakers are an active set (i.e. built-in amp) with an optical-in jack

sink

Solitaire wrote: »

Most mobos do full 7.1 through optical-out. Don't mix up optical (TOSLink) and SPDIF; the latter is often quite badly implemented. Most PC-oriented speaker sets usually use multiple 3.5mm dipole jacks to hook up anyway; if its an active speaker set that's not specifically for PC and its decent it should have an optical-in on the amp/sub anyway! You only need a sound card for audiophile-grade sound; otherwise onboard is fine, just make sure the mobo has a RealTek 7.1 channel setup (not VIA!) and an optical output, and make sure the intended speakers are an active set (i.e. built-in amp) with an optical-in jack

Don't you need DDL or DTS connect to output 5.1/7.1 for games and up mixed audio? Otherwise you can only get 5.1/7.1 on video and audio files with pre encoded DD/DTS streams which are simply passed trough to the amp. That's what I thought anyway.

sink

wikipedia wrote:

Dolby Digital Live (DDL) is a real-time encoding technology for interactive media such as video games. It converts any audio signals on a PC or game console into a 5.1-channel 16-bit/48 KHz Dolby Digital format at 640 kbit/s and transports it via a single S/PDIF cable.[12] A similar technology known as DTS Connect is available from competitor DTS. An important benefit of this technology is that it enables the use of digital multichannel sound with consumer sound cards, which are otherwise limited to digital PCM stereo or analog multichannel sound because S/PDIF over RCA, BNC, and TOSLINK can only support two-channel PCM, Dolby Digital multichannel audio, and DTS multichannel audio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital_Live#Dolby_Digital_Live

marco_polo

sink wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital_Live#Dolby_Digital_Live

And two lines under your quote

DDL is available on motherboards with codecs such as Realtek's ALC882D,[13] ALC888DD and ALC888H. Other examples include some C-Media PCI sound cards and Creative Labs' X-Fi sound cards whose drivers have enabled support for DDL.

sink

marco_polo wrote: »

And two lines under your quote

Ah, tbh I stopped reading after the first paragraph, fair deuce. In that case a discrete sound card is unnecessary. Although he may need to purchase extra software.

thanks for the replies folks, found a link in another sticky where i can learn more and will no doubt be back with a few more q's when i find a bit of time to study it

seraphimvc

i have been thinking to build a small, durable, solid stable performance machine that allow me to do daily stuffs (including max gaming would be medium setting of SC2 on 22''). there is no future upgrade/OC for it so i just need all the components that is best bang for bucks atm (budget <500e).

so i put together 2 builds:1 intel and 1 amd, they are built around the NZXT vulcan (Lian Li v354 would be great but the price tag is inhumane:pac:), tell me what do you guys think!

AMD build:


intel:


is the corsair 430W enough for the build? which build would be better? i'd prefer a quiet/low temp machine. any other suggestion?

Monotype

seraphimvc wrote: »

is the corsair 430W enough for the build? which build would be better? any other suggestion?

It would be if corsair made it into a decent PSU, building upon the CX400. I don't remember the specs straight off, but it probably would squeek by. Get the amazon instead for something less questionable and better quality.

I'd go for AMD in this case as 4 cores is better than 2 + HT.

Solitaire

+1 on both counts, a cheap Athlon tri- or quad-core plus a superior PSU would be much better. You don't even need to spend that much on the mobo for AM3. And the CX430 is dung. It might say "430W PSU" but it can only safely provide 300W of that as the all-important 12V power the parts need! An Amazon 450W could provide a good 396W of 12V power a lot more stably and efficiently.

Renn

Does anyone know if you need to get any cables if you've asked hardwaeversand to assemble the whole thing? I've ordered a whole new set up (monitor included) and was wondering if it'll be good to go once it arrives at home. Thanks.

Solitaire

100% not sure. I'd email them, some mobos only have one SATA cable included which is a bit of a problem with both a HDD and an optical drive going into the new build...

Morf3h

Solitaire wrote: »

It might say "430W PSU" but it can only safely provide 300W of that as the all-important 12V power the parts need! An Amazon 450W could provide a good 396W of 12V power a lot more stably and efficiently.

Hey just out of curiosity could you explain how that works? Maybe pm me a link if you want? Thanks!

seraphimvc

Morf3h wrote: »

Hey just out of curiosity could you explain how that works? Maybe pm me a link if you want? Thanks!

you probably get some good read by google 'multi rail psu'.

in the simplest form of saying, some psu didnt turn out as they are advertised to be. best to check out the testing in the psu review before you look at. i just randomly pick up the good looking price psu :pac: corsair cx430 is a bad psu for gaming build (but not all that bad for average home user) especially considering its price tag. it is actually a 300W psu after i did some google lol.

Monotype

Morf3h wrote: »

Hey just out of curiosity could you explain how that works? Maybe pm me a link if you want? Thanks!

P = VI
Power (in Watts) = Voltage (e.g., 12V) X Current (Amps - they'll give you this in the specs).

marco_polo

Morf3h wrote: »

Hey just out of curiosity could you explain how that works? Maybe pm me a link if you want? Thanks!

Essentially PSU manufacturere sum up the voltage of the three different rails (+3.3V, +5V and +12V) to come up with the overall number, but the 12V one is by far and away the most important as that powers the two main components in the PC, the CPU and Graphics cards. So when buying a PSU you would want the bulk of the rated power to be coming from 12V rail.

Just compairing the CX430 and 450W Superflower, one is supplying a lame 69% of its rated wattage on the 12V rail and the other a fairly impressive 88% .

Succent and easy to follow summary linked below.

http://compreviews.about.com/od/cases/a/PSUWattage.htm

Another thing to be aware of with the wattage output has to do with how it is calculated. There are three primary voltage rails inside of the power supply: +3.3V, +5V and +12V. Each of these supplies power to the various components of the computer system. It is the combined total power output of all these lines that make up the total power output of the power supply. The formula used to do this is:

•Wattage = Voltage * Amperage
So, if you look at a power supply label and it shows that the +12V line supplies 18A of power, that voltage rail can supply a maximum of 216W of power. This may be only a small fraction of say the 450W the power supply is rated at. The maximum output of the +5V and +3.3V rails would then be calculated and added to the overall wattage rating.

Solitaire

Actually the CX430 is rated to supply 336W of 12V power - 78% of its total capacity. Which brings us to the second problem - some manufacturers lie about how much their PSU can even provide! For example, the CX430 suffers extreme 12V crossloading issues, so depending on how much 5V power you're using the more heavily loaded the 12V rail the more unstable the PSU's 12V rail gets, potentially crashing the PC. Odds are you'd never get more than 300W - possibly even 250W - out of the 12V rail before it crashes. Unless you were using the PC as a fileserver or were using every one of the 127 potential USB devices you could attach any cheap gaming rig would probably draw 200-300W of 12V power, and the wattage drawn from the 5V rail during gaming might not even hit double digits. If the PSU were supplying 250W+ during gaming odds are that there would be such a horrific crossload the 5V rail would be supplying 5.5V and the 12V rail barely 11V, which could damage components using 5V lines and crash the PC as the CPU and GPU need over 11.5V to avoid crashing out. This would not have been a problem a few years ago as systems still used a fair bit of 5V power, but nowadays a 12V crossload sitaution can actually happen in RL, especially with 12V-heavy gaming rigs, so I never recommend the CX430 for gaming builds.

Besides this issue, many cheapo PSUs simply flat-out lie about how much power they can supply. Remember seeing 750W PSUs for under €40? Those units can only really supply 600W, mostly from the 3.3V and 5V rails, and while they claim they could supply 500W of 12V power in truth using more than 200W would cause the unit to melt or explode. Or both

ScumLord

Solitaire wrote: »

...Under €420 shipped:



CPU should be good for multitasking and gaming, got a mobo that hopefully has decent integrated features, decent Realtek 7.1 audio with a TOSLink output and USB3, 4GB of basic 1333MHz DDR3, decent graphics, a fast and reliable HDD, and a good PSU to boot.

If you think there's a monitor upgrade in the works get a 1GB version or a 1GB HD5770.

If you don't want to wait for the Amazon there's always the Cougar A400, which looks to be a solid CX400 replacement now that Corsair's going all cheaparse. 33A of 12V power on the Amazon 450W, versus 32A on the A400, 30A on the sadly discontinued CX400, and just 28A on the new and inferior CX430.

This PC still recommended I'm almost ready to purchase? Any changes that could take place?

Jonny7

don't forget the case

ParalysedBeaver

Hey guys, I'm looking for a new PC, as I've had this Dell XPS 420 for about 3 years now, and I really dont want to pay another 1500 for one. I've put a little build together and any help to maybe try get the price under 600 would be great.

Monotype

That RAM is too dear. Memoryc.com has them a lot cheaper. Is this for gaming? If so, you'd need more graphics power than that. That HD is a 'green' drive. Not great for running an OS from.

Monotype

Where's that - komplett?

4GB PC3-12800 for €47. Says for sandy bridge, but probably works fine with AMD. I'd double check before ordering though. Lower timings are available for €70-80, still cheaper than €95.

What about a DVD drive?

ParalysedBeaver

Yea, that's Komplett. I'm gonna take the optical drive from the xps as I've never had a problem with it. Any recommendation on a new HDD then?

SuperS54

Looking for some help here as I'm pulling my hair out. My trusty desktop has blown it's motherboard (again), have been trying to get a SH one but with Chinese new year just around the corner that's proving difficult. Rather than sit around for the next 2 weeks playing XBOX (tempting as it is!) I'm being forced into a sooner than expected new build. Originally thought I'd simply go with whatever was hottest 6 months ago but that's not as easy as I first thought...anyhow, PC will;

1) Be on 24/7 primarily downloading TV shows etc (Need English!) so power consumption is a consideration
2) Should be capable of playing games on reasonable high settings, currently on dual 19" but will probably go to 21/22 in the future. Primarily FPS, America's Army, Far cry, COD etc.

Budget is somewhere around 1000EU. Keeping from current build at this time are 2X1T SATA Seagates, 1XSATA DVD Burner & monitors. Current PSU is 500W coolermaster extreme http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=3738 which I assume will have to go. Current case is a Coolermaster Centurion 5 http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=21 which can stay or go as necessary. Windows 7 home premium is already on the way. SSD drive would be nice but not necessary right now and maybe not a good idea given the 24/7 running. Onboard sound is good enough.

So I need CPU (cooler? stock?), RAM, Graphics card and likely a PSU

Second problem is availability, will be using www.newegg.com.cn or www.360buy.com as I need to receive in the next few days before everything shuts down here. Asus motherboards, Intel & AMD CPUs are readily available. Graphics cards Asus, Saphire, MSi have some availability but local names are more probably (still with nVidia & ATi GPUs).

Apreciate any help with keeping my sanity and eyesight over the holiday!

Monotype

ParalysedBeaver wrote: »

Yea, that's Komplett. I'm gonna take the optical drive from the xps as I've never had a problem with it. Any recommendation on a new HDD then?

Komplett has the 1TB F3 for €58.50. The 500GB is €48, not much of a saving but you might prefer it and get the 2TB green drive for general storage.

SuperS54 wrote: »

Looking for some help here as I'm pulling my hair out. My trusty desktop has blown it's motherboard (again), have been trying to get a SH one but with Chinese new year just around the corner that's proving difficult. Rather than sit around for the next 2 weeks playing XBOX (tempting as it is!) I'm being forced into a sooner than expected new build. Originally thought I'd simply go with whatever was hottest 6 months ago but that's not as easy as I first thought...anyhow, PC will;

1) Be on 24/7 primarily downloading TV shows etc (Need English!) so power consumption is a consideration
2) Should be capable of playing games on reasonable high settings, currently on dual 19" but will probably go to 21/22 in the future. Primarily FPS, America's Army, Far cry, COD etc.

Budget is somewhere around 1000EU. Keeping from current build at this time are 2X1T SATA Seagates, 1XSATA DVD Burner & monitors. Current PSU is 500W coolermaster extreme http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=3738 which I assume will have to go. Current case is a Coolermaster Centurion 5 http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=21 which can stay or go as necessary. Windows 7 home premium is already on the way. SSD drive would be nice but not necessary right now and maybe not a good idea given the 24/7 running. Onboard sound is good enough.

So I need CPU (cooler? stock?), RAM, Graphics card and likely a PSU

Second problem is availability, will be using www.newegg.com.cn or www.360buy.com as I need to receive in the next few days before everything shuts down here. Asus motherboards, Intel & AMD CPUs are readily available. Graphics cards Asus, Saphire, MSi have some availability but local names are more probably (still with nVidia & ATi GPUs).

Apreciate any help with keeping my sanity and eyesight over the holiday!

:mad: Accidentally closed a window with a long reply.

Bad PSU, can keep case if you want.

From the 360buy site, you could get
120GB vertex 2
650W Truepower new
4GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1600
Sapphire 6950
MSI P67A-GD65

Which left enough for the i5-2500K, but they don't stock it in either place, can you find it anywhere else?

AndrewR

Build from HWVS attached, any comments would be most appreciated.
Is the graphics card overkill with the processor? is the build "reasonably" upgradable? won't be running cutting edge games but want this to be the family PC for a few years....
Sorry don't know how to add the picture into the post and couldn't find the instructions in the Forum:(
I've used an old post from Solitaire as the basis, many thanks Solitaire.

Monotype

AndrewR wrote: »

Build from HWVS attached, any comments would be most appreciated.
Is the graphics card overkill with the processor? is the build "reasonably" upgradable? won't be running cutting edge games but want this to be the family PC for a few years....
Sorry don't know how to add the picture into the post and couldn't find the instructions in the Forum:(
I've used an old post from Solitaire as the basis, many thanks Solitaire.

For less than €1 more, the Extreme 3 looks like a better choice. It doesn't come with onboard graphics like your own choice, but it does come with an extra PCI-E slot and SATA 6Gbps.
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=36056

The 5750 isn't that powerful to be paired with the processor. With the 1GB 5770 €13 more, I'd be considering that and I think the extra performance is jusified. There's also the GTS 450 for €99.51, but performance would only be slightly above the 5750.

To add pictures to your post, attach it as normal with the attachment tool. Then copy the link in the attachment that you've just uploaded (the link address itself, not the link text) and put it inside img tags. I had pictures around here somewhere when somebody else asked... I should have bookmarked!

ParalysedBeaver

I've updated my build. I'm going to order the memory from memoryc, which pushes the price to about 650. Can I make any adjustments?

Monotype

The VX450 PSU looked a lot better. It had 33A on the +12V rail vs the mere 18A on the AXP.

Solitaire

The AXP is horrid.

ChunkyLover_53

ParalysedBeaver wrote: »

I've updated my build. I'm going to order the memory from memoryc, which pushes the price to about 650. Can I make any adjustments?

Goddammit!

I've spent the evening trawling through Komplett & came up with near enough the same build as you bar the Case, HD & PSU. Should have known to check here first lol.

Did you order it yet? Any problems?