How quickly can you learn to speak Polish?

SimpleSam06

Because you may have to if Conor Lenihan, minister for integration, has his way. The good minister plans to give the vote in national elections to non Irish nationals from Europe, with the only criteria being that you can speak English. Oh and it gets better:

Lenihan rejected capping the numbers of foreign workers legally entering the Republic, even in the face of economic downturn.

Not content with completely squandering the whole economic boom, these clamshells are now selling the nation down the river. What is this, Bertie's parting gift?

No caps on migrants coming in from other countries, and they are given full voting priveleges - it would almost make sense for some enterprising Eastern European government to pay a million or so people to move over here for a few years and then annex the place. Maybe thats a bit alarmist, but for christs sake.

And naturally, nobody asked the Irish people what they thought of this little scheme.

Unaton

"And naturally, nobody asked the Irish people what they thought of this little scheme."

This is a EU scheme. If you are living in Spain, you can vote there. If a Pole is living in Belgium, he can vote there. (in EU electtions) So now he just wants to apply this scheme to national elections. But to be honest I don't see why non-Irish would be interested in voting here.

Guy:Incognito

Unaton wrote: »

"But to be honest I don't see why non-Irish would be interested in voting here.

To vote in some commi's then leg it.

Unaton

Unaton wrote: »

But to be honest I don't see why non-Irish would be interested in voting here.

I've seen non-irish nationals registered and bused to the polls during working hours. So that they might support their employers prefered candidate.

Unaton

Moonbaby wrote: »

I've seen non-irish nationals registered and bused to the polls during working hours. So that they might support their employers prefered candidate.

Um that's probably true. But will a few buses full of Poles change the outcome of the national elections?

On the other hand, they are working here, living here, paying taxes, their kids go to school here so why wouldn't they be allowed to vote? Nowadays, non-Irish nationals are also a part of our society, we just can't ignore that.

Ekancone

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Because you may have to if Conor Lenihan, minister for integration, has his way. The good minister plans to give the vote in national elections to non Irish nationals from Europe, with the only criteria being that you can speak English. Oh and it gets better:

Not content with completely squandering the whole economic boom, these clamshells are now selling the nation down the river. What is this, Bertie's parting gift?

No caps on migrants coming in from other countries, and they are given full voting priveleges - it would almost make sense for some enterprising Eastern European government to pay a million or so people to move over here for a few years and then annex the place. Maybe thats a bit alarmist, but for christs sake.

And naturally, nobody asked the Irish people what they thought of this little scheme.

:rolleyes:

LurkingLady

Moonbaby wrote: »

I've seen non-irish nationals registered and bused to the polls during working hours. So that they might support their employers prefered candidate.

Anyone who knows anything about Polish history between 1945 and 1989 knows that the Poles at the very least won't stand for it.

Sherifu

Wait for enough of them to move here and we can take over Poland. Who'll be laughing then when the sea level rises, eh eh.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

it would almost make sense for some enterprising Eastern European government to pay a million or so people to move over here for a few years and then annex the place.

Belongs in humour.

damnyanks

I'm living in the UK and am allowed to vote in all the polls here. I can vote at home as well.

In that regard I'm more important then you lot.

Canis Lupus

Gosh..... Allowing people who live in Ireland, pay taxes etc etc to have a vote?

Shocking stuff.... But maybe you're right. It's obvious the current Irish voters are voting in the right bunch of politicians as it is.....

I love the way the article choses to highlight that Polish, Czechs and Slovakians (They're stealing our jawbs) will be able to vote and nicely dumps all the 'acceptable' countries into "other EU states".

gsxr1

I am feeling the pinch now with the shortage of work in construction and have a crippeling mortgage. Just like most of us.

We really dont need any more cheap foreign workers taking whats left of the work.

The government should have a good look at where they also come from and start looking after there own.

Voting is for the citizens :mad:

LurkingLady

LurkingLady wrote: »

Anyone who knows anything about Polish history between 1945 and 1989 knows that the Poles at the very least won't stand for it.

Who is to say what they did when when they got there. But most of the staff would be Polish and afaik they didn't object.

Holsten

Wow.. what a joke.

Lenihan is some ****in thick.

DublinWriter

Yes, Irish people whinging about immigration. The ironing is delicious.

Damn those hard working Poles coming over here, paying their taxes and keeping the economy afloat. How dare we allow them have a say in the government.

People coming into the country to work = good for the economy. Don't believe me? Look at the US, a country founded on immigration. If they took the 12 million illegals out of the system right now, the entire economy would collapse as it would be like taking the bottom rung out of the economic ladder.

I just love all these Irish 'patriots' who wear English Premiership jerseys, can't speak their own language and whinge about people wanting to come here to work.

I did think this thread was going to be about free Polish lessons and I'm disappointed now.

LurkingLady

Moonbaby wrote: »

I did think this thread was going to be about free Polish lessons and I'm disappointed now.

+1
Same here. Was sure someone was looking for some Polish classes or something

dotsman

I don't see how giving them a basic fundamental right is a bad thing for anybody. In a way, it might benefit us! They're not likely to have any loyalty to a particular party/politician and therefore view the candidates in an unbiased fashion and actually vote for the best person!

As regards not capping the amount coming in. Don't think this makes a difference. As soon as there's not enough jobs for them, they're hardly going to leave their friends and family to come over here to a country where there's people who will automatically take a dislike to them because of where they were born just to do nothing!

Kerry people don't move to Leitrim (if such a place exists:p) for a reason! If anywhere they end up in Cork/Dublin etc where the jobs are or else stay at home.

Wertz

If it eventually ousts FF then it's all good. Not happy about no cap on migrant worker numbers though since I'm more or less in the same boat as gsxr1...work gone south (either there's none or there's some one willing to do it for much less than I can even afford to do it for) rising bills and rent...

BTW just lol at this notion of NIN workers "keeping the economy afloat"...keep waving that tired old flag in this argument, but it's patent bullsh*t in reality. They may have added a short term boost but in the long run it will cost us all...

Ekancone

People need to remember that the one country that allowed unfettered immigration and gave the right to vote to those immigrants turned out to be the most prosperous countrys on earth. Such things dont neccessarily lead to a nations destruction, dig your head out of Malthus' ass for a second, will you?

Wertz

How in the hell can you compare a nation the size of the US with an island the size of Ireland?

Tha Gopher

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I love the way the article choses to highlight that Polish, Czechs and Slovakians (They're stealing our jawbs) .

Yes. In some industries, they are.

Do you have any response or would you prefer to serve us some more delicious PC waffles?

We certainly needed migrants but it should have been on a renewable permit basis.

DublinWriter wrote: »

Yes, Irish people whinging about immigration. The ironing is delicious.

Ever fcuking time, this same point :rolleyes:

In the 1980s, the UK, itself strugling with rising unemployment, should not have allowed unchecked travel and migration from a country with 25% unemployment that was home to a large amount of people intent on planting bombs in Britain. Not to mention the amount of alcoholic Irish who became a burden on the health, crime and housing services there.

They did let us in. The result? Our dole queue had a breather. A few bombs were planted, and we probably managed to throw a few undesirables out. It still goes on- ask residents of certain villages outside London how they like the fact their government has allowed thousands of friendly Irish travellers to camp there. Just because the inaction of the Brits helped our economy it doesnt mean we are duty bound to also be as irresponsible.

Moonbaby wrote:

I did think this thread was going to be about free Polish lessons and I'm disappointed now.

So am I. I might be able to order the correct sandwich in work if it was :pac:

Ekancone

Wertz wrote: »

How in the hell can you compare a nation the size of the US with an island the size of Ireland?

I wished to dispell the belief that immigration and giving rights to immigrants does not always lead to destruction. In fact, I cant think of any instances in modern history where this is so.

Ekancone

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Yes. In some industries, they are.

Do you have any response or would you prefer to serve us some more delicious PC waffles?

We certainly needed migrants but it should have been on a renewable permit basis.



Ever fcuking time, this same point :rolleyes:

In the 1980s, the UK, itself strugling with rising unemployment, should not have allowed unchecked travel and migration from a country with 25% unemployment that was home to a large amount of people intent on planting bombs in Britain. Not to mention the amount of alcoholic Irish who became a burden on the health, crime and housing services there.

They did let us in. The result? Our dole queue had a breather. A few bombs were planted, and we probably managed to throw a few undesirables out. It still goes on- ask residents of certain villages outside London how they like the fact their government has allowed thousands of friendly Irish travellers to camp there. Just because the inaction of the Brits helped our economy it doesnt mean we are duty bound to also be as irresponsible.




So am I. I might be able to order the correct sandwich in work if it was :pac:

Wow, my bigotometer just exploded.

Tha Gopher

daithifleming wrote: »

Wow, my bigotometer just exploded.

Really? My retarded post radar blew a ****ing fuse!

So what is your solution Sherlock? Wanna give an unemployed builder your job?


Out of curiousity are East Europeans who think we let too many people in racist against themselves?

Or are you one of these keybpoard warriors who hasnt actually ever met one?

Turbodreams

DublinWriter wrote: »

Yes, Irish people whinging about immigration. The ironing is delicious.

Damn those hard working Poles coming over here, paying their taxes and keeping the economy afloat. How dare we allow them have a say in the government.

People coming into the country to work = good for the economy. Don't believe me? Look at the US, a country founded on immigration. If they took the 12 million illegals out of the system right now, the entire economy would collapse as it would be like taking the bottom rung out of the economic ladder.

I just love all these Irish 'patriots' who wear English Premiership jerseys, can't speak their own language and whinge about people wanting to come here to work.

i work with about 10 polish men during the summer when im not in college. now, 8 out of those 10 send approx. 70-80% of their wages back home to poland for their families, relatives etc.
i am not being smart here, i genuinely would like to know the answer- how can this be good for our economy? surely it has a detrimental effect?

Ekancone

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Really? My retarded post radar blew a ****ing fuse!

That must happen often.

Tha Gopher wrote: »

So what is your solution Sherlock? Wanna give an unemployed builder your job?

I would advise him/her to retrain. The boom is over and it isn't coming back

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Out of curiousity are East Europeans who think we let too many people in racist against themselves?

I didn't say racist, I said bigot. And yes, they are, and hypocrites to boot.

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Or are you one of these keybpoard warriors who hasnt actually ever met one?

No I havent, I must have missed the 250,000 or so that are flying around the place. :rolleyes:

I am curious though, if i hadnt met one, how would that invalidate my opinion? Take your time with this one.

DublinWriter

Tha Gopher wrote: »

So am I. I might be able to order the correct sandwich in work if it was :pac:

So you are saying that all Poles are good for is sandwich making?

I think your attitude stems from the basic insecurity that the Poles, like most immigrant groups, will start working their way up the economic value-chain.

In all fairness, and this is completely subjective, I've never heard any professional-class Irish person complain about immigration. The only ones I've ever heard bitch about them were those who worked in unskilled labour or were on the scratch.

Jigsaw

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Yes. In some industries, they are.

Do you have any response or would you prefer to serve us some more delicious PC waffles?

We certainly needed migrants but it should have been on a renewable permit basis.



Ever fcuking time, this same point :rolleyes:

In the 1980s, the UK, itself strugling with rising unemployment, should not have allowed unchecked travel and migration from a country with 25% unemployment that was home to a large amount of people intent on planting bombs in Britain. Not to mention the amount of alcoholic Irish who became a burden on the health, crime and housing services there.

They did let us in. The result? Our dole queue had a breather. A few bombs were planted, and we probably managed to throw a few undesirables out. It still goes on- ask residents of certain villages outside London how they like the fact their government has allowed thousands of friendly Irish travellers to camp there. Just because the inaction of the Brits helped our economy it doesnt mean we are duty bound to also be as irresponsible.




So am I. I might be able to order the correct sandwich in work if it was :pac:

Excellent post.

Ekancone

Turbodreams wrote: »

i work with about 10 polish men during the summer when im not in college. now, 8 out of those 10 send approx. 70-80% of their wages back home to poland for their families, relatives etc.
i am not being smart here, i genuinely would like to know the answer- how can this be good for our economy? surely it has a detrimental effect?

Do they not create wealth with their labour? Do they send the buildings they construct home as well? The Irish followed the same tactics for much of the 20th century, did their host country collapse?

Turbodreams

daithifleming wrote: »

Do they not create wealth with their labour? Do they send the buildings they construct home as well? The Irish followed the same tactics for much of the 20th century, did their host country collapse?

and the answer to the question is where?? :rolleyes:

ninty9er

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Really? My retarded post radar blew a ****ing fuse!

So what is your solution Sherlock? Wanna give an unemployed builder your job?


Out of curiousity are East Europeans who think we let too many people in racist against themselves?

Or are you one of these keybpoard warriors who hasnt actually ever met one?

There is massive construction going on on infrastructure in this country. Any builder who wants WORK as opposed to the OVERPAID work they've been getting for the last number of years will find it.

God help us, they might even have to find out what it's like to live on €3k a month.

Fook sake!!

If a builder wants work they'll find it, if they don't find any they're a lazy arsewipe.

Unaton

Why are we only discussing Poles? I know a lot of people from Netherlands and Germany working here. Are they excluded from this 'oh bleedin forrinners taking our jawbs' debate?

Wertz

Turbodreams wrote: »

i work with about 10 polish men during the summer when im not in college. now, 8 out of those 10 send approx. 70-80% of their wages back home to poland for their families, relatives etc.
i am not being smart here, i genuinely would like to know the answer- how can this be good for our economy? surely it has a detrimental effect?

It's good if you're a landlord renting out properties, it was good if you were a developer selling those houses to the landlord...or at least it was until property went tits up and said landlords discover their re-sale prices aren't what they figured they might be...
It's good that small to medium enterprises can get relatively cheap staff who are supposedly unlikely to hang around long enough for any sort of pension rights or other overheads to push up their basic rates...it's even better for the more unscrupulous employer who can pick up two or maybe three people willing to work all the hours god sends for the same rate as one "lazy" native...
But it's best if you're the like of Western Union or other money transfer broker, making all that lovely commision :pac: ...

Daithifleming, one flaw in your example of the US and immigrant voting rights is that in order to partake in the democratic processes those immigrants had to take their oath of allegiance and become US citizens. That still stands to this day.
I know NINs in this country are citizens of the EU but until such time as we have central or federalised european government, they are not Irish citizens and as such shouldn't be afforded the same democratic rights. I'm not saying that that's the way it should remain, they are of course entitled to have some say in how their taxes get spent, how their kids are educated, all that jazz, and they are entitled to representation, either by ex-pats from their own country or from this one...perhaps granting voting rights to those permanently resident after a period of years or those here on some form of proper work permit (yet to be implemented; highly unlikely to be) would be less idiotic than
Lenihan's short sighted proposals..


[edit] LMAO 3K a month? After tax? Would you ever feck off...

Turbodreams

Wertz wrote: »

It's good if you're a landlord renting out properties, it was good if you were a developer selling those houses to the landlord...or at least it was until property went tits up and said landlords discover their re-sale prices aren't what they figured they might be...
It's good that small to medium enterprises can get relatively cheap staff who are supposedly unlikely to hang around long enough for any sort of pension rights or other overheads to push up their basic rates...it's even better for the more unscrupulous employer who can pick up two or maybe three people willing to work all the hours god sends for the same rate as one "lazy" native...
But it's best if you're the like of Western Union or other money transfer broker, making all that lovely commision :pac: ...
.

yeah i supose they are all good points

Ekancone

Turbodreams wrote: »

and the answer to the question is where?? :rolleyes:

Sorry, I didn't realise your capacity to understand was that poor. My answer is that the wealth that they create with their hands far outweighs what they send home. Would you like me to draw a diagram?

Ekancone

Wertz wrote: »

Daithifleming, one flaw in your example of the US and immigrant voting rights is that in order to partake in the democratic processes those immigrants had to take their oath of allegiance and become US citizens. That still stands to this day.

Good point, and conceded.

Wertz wrote: »

I know NINs in this country are citizens of the EU but until such time as we have central or federalised european government, they are not Irish citizens and as such shouldn't be afforded the same democratic rights. I'm not saying that that's the way it should remain, they are of course entitled to have some say in how their taxes get spent, how their kids are educated, all that jazz, and they are entitled to representation, either by ex-pats from their own country or from this one...perhaps granting voting rights to those permanently resident after a period of years or those here on some form of proper work permit (yet to be implemented; highly unlikely to be) would be less idiotic than
Lenihan's short sighted proposals..

Another good point. Much more sensible than what some of the cretins in here are harping on about.

Kernel

Unaton wrote: »

"And naturally, nobody asked the Irish people what they thought of this little scheme."

This is a EU scheme. If you are living in Spain, you can vote there. If a Pole is living in Belgium, he can vote there. (in EU electtions) So now he just wants to apply this scheme to national elections. But to be honest I don't see why non-Irish would be interested in voting here.

Well, the problem I see is that in my opinion only Irish citizens should be allowed to vote in elections to represent Irish affairs. The whole thing is simply a further erosion of individual nationalism in EU. Globablisation, new world order, etc - an EU Superstate is part of the whole plan, and wont be stopped by the plebs (look at double Nice treaty referenda for example). Lenihan is simply pushing his EU masters' agenda.

Who knows, it could work out well, or it could turn into 1984esque fascist nightmare.........

Ekancone

Kernel wrote: »

Well, the problem I see is that in my opinion only Irish citizens should be allowed to vote in elections to represent Irish affairs. The whole thing is simply a further erosion of individual nationalism in EU. Globablisation, new world order, etc - an EU Superstate is part of the whole plan, and wont be stopped by the plebs (look at double Nice treaty referenda for example). Lenihan is simply pushing his EU masters' agenda.

Who knows, it could work out well, or it could turn into 1984esque fascist nightmare.........

:rolleyes:

Tha Gopher

DublinWriter wrote: »

So you are saying that all Poles are good for is sandwich making?

No.

Although the effort it takes to convey your order and get what you asked for also infuriates my Latvian colleague.

It was a little joke, relax.

I think your attitude stems from the basic insecurity that the Poles, like most immigrant groups, will start working their way up the economic value-chain.

In all fairness, and this is completely subjective, I've never heard any professional-class Irish person complain about immigration. The only ones I've ever heard bitch about them were those who worked in unskilled labour or were on the scratch.

So only accountants and lawyers matter? Taxi drivers, builders, chefs and any other trade under pressure from uncontrolled migration can go fcuk themselves with their whinging?

Kernel

daithifleming wrote: »

I wished to dispell the belief that immigration and giving rights to immigrants does not always lead to destruction. In fact, I cant think of any instances in modern history where this is so.

Tell the Native American 'Indians' that....

Ekancone

Kernel wrote: »

Tell the Native American 'Indians' that....

Right, not much chance of that happening in this scenario, is there?

Sgt Hartman

Unaton wrote: »

Um that's probably true. But will a few buses full of Poles change the outcome of the national elections?

On the other hand, they are working here, living here, paying taxes, their kids go to school here so why wouldn't they be allowed to vote? Nowadays, non-Irish nationals are also a part of our society, we just can't ignore that.

Why not just call them "foreigners" instead of that PC, media-invented term "Non-Irish-National"?

Groan!

Tha Gopher

Kernel wrote: »

Tell the Native American 'Indians' that....

Or the Maori.

Or the South American tribes.

Or black South Africans.

Or Tibetans.

Or Ulster pre plantation Irish.

Or Palestinians who lived in what was Israel.



Woah. Long list.

daithifleming wrote: »

1- I would advise him/her to retrain. The boom is over and it isn't coming back

2- I didn't say racist, I said bigot. And yes, they are, and hypocrites to boot.

3- I am curious though, if i hadnt met one, how would that invalidate my opinion? Take your time with this one.

1- Would you like it if a TD told you to retrain and get another job because you were pushed out of your profession?

2- No. They are people who are glad they got in when they did but think the policy is a joke. Hey, Im glad the UK took the stress of us in the 80s! It was sh1t for their own people and economy, but thank god they did it!

3- Lol.


Oh and btw, if you cant post responses to people consisting of more than the rolleyes smilkey maybe its best to just concede that you are wrong And that you know it.

gsxr1

ninty9er wrote: »

There is massive construction going on on infrastructure in this country. Any builder who wants WORK as opposed to the OVERPAID work they've been getting for the last number of years will find it.

God help us, they might even have to find out what it's like to live on €3k a month.

Fook sake!!

If a builder wants work they'll find it, if they don't find any they're a lazy arsewipe.

arse wipe.??? Foolish comment

A big builder let go of 500 lads recently. most of these people where skilled trades men. Some may get jobs some may not. I am sure most have bills to pay. There is not many construction jobs out there at the moment.

I am a chippy. I work hard and get paid well for it. Do you think A man that works on a site deserves low pay. ????? If so why? are we all Lazy.

Why dont you build blocks or tile roofs every day. Just to see how us lazy lads do it.

If people don't work hard they get sacked.

You obviously have no clue about the construction industry with silly comments like that.

Ekancone

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Or the Maori.

Or the South American tribes.

Or black South Africans.

Or Tibetans.

Or Ulster pre plantation Irish.

Or Palestinians who lived in what was Israel.



Woah. Long list.

Quite a liberal use of the word immigration there. Those damn American Soldier immigrants in Iraq, taking all the Iraqi peoples jobs. Grr...

I remember when all those pesky Nazis emigrated into Eastern Europe, perhaps you could ask your EE friends about that.

Ekancone

gsxr1 wrote: »

arse wipe.??? Foolish comment

A big builder let go of 500 lads recently. most of these people where skilled trades men. Some may get jobs some may not. I am sure most have bills to pay. There is not many construction jobs out there at the moment.

I am a chippy. I work hard and get paid well for it. Do you think A man that works on a site deserves low pay. ????? If so why? are we all Lazy.

Why dont you build blocks or tile roofs every day. Just to see how us lazy lads do it.

If people don't work hard they get sacked.

You obviously have no clue about the construction industry with silly comments like that.

I think you guys have gotten a little too used to being paid wages that are fitting for a construction boom. That boom is over and its time your unions got realistic with your wage demands.

Kernel

daithifleming wrote: »

Quite a liberal use of the word immigration there. Those damn American Soldier immigrants in Iraq, taking all the Iraqi peoples jobs. Grr...

Wasn't your point that mass immigration in the US didn't destroy their preexisting society? In which case, QED; it obliterated the indigenous peoples.

Tha Gopher

gsxr1 wrote: »

arse wipe.??? Foolish comment

A big builder let go of 500 lads recently. most of these people where skilled trades men. Some may get jobs some may not. I am sure most have bills to pay. There is not many construction jobs out there at the moment.

I am a chippy. I work hard and get paid well for it. Do you think A man that works on a site deserves low pay. ????? If so why? are we all Lazy.

Why dont you build blocks or tile roofs every day. Just to see how us lazy lads do it.

If people don't work hard they get sacked.

You obviously have no clue about the construction industry with silly comments like that.

Look at the sig he has.

Now, understand? :rolleyes:

We aint never had it so good.......

Ekancone

Kernel wrote: »

Wasn't your point that mass immigration in the US didn't destroy their preexisting society? In which case, QED; it obliterated the indigenous peoples.

Sigh, not the same. Its really sad when people need to resort to extreme examples to prove their point. You know very well I was comparing an established democracy with the same, not a empty land inhabited by nomadic tribes. Do I really need to point this out?

*sigh*







Go on, entertain me with your NWO fantasies for a while...

Turbodreams

daithifleming wrote: »

Sorry, I didn't realise your capacity to understand was that poor. My answer is that the wealth that they create with their hands far outweighs what they send home. Would you like me to draw a diagram?

apologies, i wish i could be more like you. infact, you sir, are my hero:cool:

Tha Gopher

daithifleming wrote: »

Quite a liberal use of the word immigration there. Those damn American Soldier immigrants in Iraq, taking all the Iraqi peoples jobs. Grr...

I remember when all those pesky Nazis emigrated into Eastern Europe, perhaps you could ask your EE friends about that.

The Jews in Israel were at first an immigrant minority. Then they got weaponry.


I normally hate int3rwebz spk, but sir, you have been pwnd.

Royally. Digging a hole all the way to Oz. Not one arguement or reply you have given has had any logic or fact.

Goodnight.