WSOP Seat any ideas?

RoundTower

Ollieboy wrote: »

nobody begrudge's the promotion, just the market reseach rubbish, maybe if you took the time to read the thread you would have pick that up.

oh well if he is really spamming/abusing the site/didn't ask mods etc then I take it back. Taking everything at face value I still think it's great.

dannydiamond

Allowing players to buy into this final would be a very bad idea.

green123

i think its a good idea

one tournament a day for a month , and all the winners go into a grand final

dont allow people buy into the final

Goodluck2me

I think its a great idea too, I think some of Olliè's comments are OTT as well. It just seems like he is disappointed about not getting one to suit him. Also with re: to people wanting "better players" to play it, if someone won it after getting in through a freeroll or $5, that would be much better publicity!

Ollieboy

goodluck2me wrote: »

I think its a great idea too, I think some of Olliè's comments are OTT as well. It just seems like he is disappointed about not getting one to suit him. Also with re: to people wanting "better players" to play it, if someone won it after getting in through a freeroll or $5, that would be much better publicity!

have you read what I said, I accused him of spamming and wasting peoples time, all of which seems to be true from comments made by Mods, which he stated he had been in contact with etc. I've been positive about the schedule and didnt state I had a problem with it, but its not rocked science and didnt really need market research. A lot of sites send players to the WSOP on freerolls.

cardshark202

goodluck2me wrote: »

I think its a great idea too

I presume thats down to the fact that they have some freerolls for you?

Paul Spillane

Hi Again

Ok plenty of food for thought. I havent taken offence at anything that has been said. Ollieboy is not convinced that im not spamming but i hope I can convince him eventually that his scepticism isnt warranted. I hope to be able to communicate through Boards and dvdfan raised a good point in that I think I should have put my original post on the tournament section.

I have been in touch with the mods to ask them about the tournament on the 26th and am awaiting a reply. When i get one il ask them to look at this thread and advise me if on i have broken any rules. I havent used a public forum in my role as a poker manager before so may be unaware of a couple things i can and cannot say. Again il post what their response is. For me to come on here on spam would be ridiculous; im aware we would be slated, banned and build up resentment towards us, none of which i want to happen.

I havent come on here to generate business, i genuinely would welcome any feedback on how we do things, good or bad. That's what i defined as market research i my original post. If Ollie or anyone else wants to contact me with ideas im more than happy to call them and discuss them. My job is to listen to customers, imho they will know more than me as to what they do and do not want.

Im not going to allow the $500 buy in at the end. Reason for that and to answer another point that has been raised is that we are running this tournament for our customers, many of them are freeroll players or small staking players who get a decent shot at qualifying with this. We have sponsored Marty into it and it would be kinda nice for a young Irish player to get a crack at the WSOP rather than someone who has seen it all before.

I really like the Heads up suggestion for the last 32, i hope to finalise the promo tomorrow, does anyone feel strongly one way or the other us running a heads up tourney or a traditional mtt? If not i will change it to a 32 man heads out shoot out for the seat, thanks for the idea theirishmob.

Ste05

Paul Spillane wrote: »

I have been in touch with the mods to ask them about the tournament on the 26th and am awaiting a reply. When i get one il ask them to look at this thread and advise me if on i have broken any rules. I havent used a public forum in my role as a poker manager before so may be unaware of a couple things i can and cannot say. Again il post what their response is.

I'll ask again so, who did you contact?? We've already seen the thread (i.e. us the mods), and I've already posted my initial thoughts on the thread above.

The only mods that are relevant here are myself, Lafortezza and 5starpool. You haven't contacted myself or Lafortezza. Any other mod on boards has no say about what happens in the Poker forum. The only other person you could possibly have contacted would be DeVore or the other admins.

Ste05

Paul Spillane

I used the 'contact us' feature on Friday evening at approx 23.30. I asked about a private freeroll for Boards members. I asked if it was ok to host one and who would i contact if it was ok. Should i be speaking to you about this?

5starpool

lafortezza wrote: »

I wasn't one of the mods contacted

5starpool must be the pretty one.

I think in this case the admins are the pretty ones, not us.

Ste05

Paul Spillane wrote: »

Should i be speaking to you about this?

Yeah, the way to do it is send a Private Message to myself, Lafortezza or 5starpool, and we can help you out. (Do this by clicking any of our names and then clicking the Send Private Message button)

Ste05

DeVore

I havent heard anything about this. I will chase it.

DeV.

Iago

I think the overall interaction from Boylesports and the offer is a generous one and should be looked at in that light.

The problem here (not specifically Boyles but any poker skin) is a combination of things.

1. Site wants players to play there rather than anywhere else, at the minimum cost possible.

2. Players want huge concession to consider playing on the site.

3. A compromise is suggested which succeeds for as long as the league/prize/race is on, at which point players revert to their normal games.

4. Site is really aiming for lower stakes, mass market players. Boards is predominantly loaded with higher stakes, niche winning players.

5. No sooner has the promotion launched, than some other site launches a similar, or better promotion not aimed at boards but which users will take advantage of anyway.

The biggest issue here is one of the basic tenets of marketing, forming a sustainable competitive advantage. This is especially difficult in an online world where every option is just a couple of clicks away. There are so many options available to players, that any offer proposed is likely to be replicated somewhere else. If Boyles were to offer 45% rakeback then they would hold an advantage for just as long as it took another site to notice the take-up and replicate the offer. Software, softness of games, rakeback, bonuses, prizes, leagues etc are all easily replicated by other sites.

It requires something different, something unique to attract and keep players. Until someone comes up with that all sites will just go through a period of attracting and losing customers over and over again.

dvdfan

Iago wrote: »

I think the overall interaction from Boylesports and the offer is a generous one and should be looked at in that light.

The problem here (not specifically Boyles but any poker skin) is a combination of things.

1. Site wants players to play there rather than anywhere else, at the minimum cost possible.

2. Players want huge concession to consider playing on the site.

3. A compromise is suggested which succeeds for as long as the league/prize/race is on, at which point players revert to their normal games.

4. Site is really aiming for lower stakes, mass market players. Boards is predominantly loaded with higher stakes, niche winning players.

5. No sooner has the promotion launched, than some other site launches a similar, or better promotion not aimed at boards but which users will take advantage of anyway.

The biggest issue here is one of the basic tenets of marketing, forming a sustainable competitive advantage. This is especially difficult in an online world where every option is just a couple of clicks away. There are so many options available to players, that any offer proposed is likely to be replicated somewhere else. If Boyles were to offer 45% rakeback then they would hold an advantage for just as long as it took another site to notice the take-up and replicate the offer. Software, softness of games, rakeback, bonuses, prizes, leagues etc are all easily replicated by other sites.

It requires something different, something unique to attract and keep players. Until someone comes up with that all sites will just go through a period of attracting and losing customers over and over again.

Yeah well put and its a good thing in one way that their is competition but unfortunately since rakeback and signup bonuses are far more important in seducing a player to a site or skin, the support and to a lesser extent the improvement of the software usually takes back stage.

In an ideal world if everyone on ipoker could only offer the same deal as every other skin including rakeraces and signup bonuses and loyalty bonuses then the sites with the best support would most likely be the most successful skins. Since the sites who can offer the biggest rakeraces, signup bonuses and loyalty bonus are the most successful in the real world, support isnt so important because i cant remember the last time someone started a thread asking for recommendations for a good site with good support as one of the main requisites. If support was the main pull then id imagine GJP would be a leading competitor on ipoker.

Similarly if there was a site out there that could match ipoker in terms of fish/rakeback/signup bonuses/rakeraces then ipoker would be forced to fast track the improvements to the software or risk losing customers to the competition but unfortunately the competition isnt anywhere near big enough.

I remember when alot of the sites were announcing moving to ipoker they said one of the biggest things was the flexibility to improve the software to what the customers want, unfortunately although ipoker probably has the backend flexibility and capability to make improvements other than the mini tables we havent seen any other major improvements in probably a year and i think thats where the biggest resentment to ipoker has been. Just one thing that baffles me is why pokerstars dont offer rakeback/loyalty bonuses, surely if they matched ipoker they would take a huge part of their business giving most people think the software is miles ahead of ipoker??

Ill stop now because im getting a bit off topic

cardshark202

dvdfan wrote: »

Just one thing that baffles me is why pokerstars dont offer rakeback/loyalty bonuses, surely if they matched ipoker they would take a huge part of their business giving most people think the software is miles ahead of ipoker??

Pokerstars do offer rb in the form of fpps. Software, support and security are far more important than an extra bit of rb imo.


Back on topic, I think this offer is alright, whether it entices a lot of people on to the site is another matter.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Nice idea, look forward to playing...

A heads-up format for the final 32 would be kinda spiffy!

Goodluck2me

cardshark202 wrote: »

goodluck2me wrote: »

I think its a great idea too

I presume thats down to the fact that they have some freerolls for you?

but of course, Freerolls are +ev imo. Much like the plantations.

big_iain

I think it is great that you get the opinions of your potential players. I don't see any other company coming forward and giving the actual players that opportunity. Nice one.

I suggest a different strategy.

Contact all poker venues and poker tour operators. Get them to offer tickets into one event in a neutral location like a Athlone or Mullingar hotel for instance.

Offer value to the clubs by giving them double there standard reg. and get them to offer a sat tournament for tickets to the main event. You fund 50% of the double reg. I.e Selling tickets to clubs cheaper than the face value. Offer €2000 to the club owners whose players score the best. (like a team event, but the club bosses get the money)

Most of them want to make an extra buck or two. Make the super sat cheap so they can give away tickets within there normal tournament structures. ie. $100 freezeout. Limit the buyin to only people who have qualified through the clubs. Ensure that the clubs are making good money for getting people into the main event.

Ensure that the winning players have a Boyle poker account so clubs pass you usernames for winning ticket holders.

Run Sats online to win the €300 euro package for the main event. Buyin, hotel for one night in Athlone, plus €100 for travel.

Look after the players. free(drinks tokens) bar afterwards or something.

You fork out money to clubs, money left over you put in prize pool but you should have at least 400 players, thats 4 players going to Vegas representing Boyle poker for the same as one.

This all sounds cheap. but i think there are a lot of players out there who don't get a chance. The IPO is a great case in question. Cheap buyin - loads a players. You would love them as new members Paul.

Anyway, i have loads of ideas how to get this off the ground, but i wont go into them now. PM me if you like this idea.

Blip

Paul Spillane wrote: »

Ok making progress, so far this is the idea, please feel free to add comments, it really needs to be finalised by Monday

Win one of our selected daily tournaments (including 7 freerolls!). This automatically enters you into the WSOP Grand Final to be held on June 9th.

The winner of the WSOP Grand Final wins

Paid entry into the WSOP main event

An extra $3000 to cover flight and accommodation.


Date: Tournament:

01/05/2008 $10 + $1 No Limit holdem Freezeout
02/05/2008 $25 + $2.50 Deepstack Hold'em
03/05/2008 $1000 Freeroll
04/05/2008 $5 + $.05 No limit Hold'em with Rebuys
05/05/2008 $3000 Freeroll
06/05/2008 $15 + $1.50 Scalp tournament ($10 prize pool $5 Scalp)
07/05/2008 $5 + $.50 Short handed No limit Hold'em with Rebuys
08/05/2008 $10 + $1 No Limit holdem Freezeout
09/05/2008 $25 + $2.50 Deepstack Hold'em
10/05/2008 $1000 Freeroll
11/05/2008 $5 + $.50 Short handed No limit Hold'em with Rebuys
12/05/2008 $10 + $1 No Limit holdem with Rebuys
13/05/2008 $15 + $1.50 Scalp tournament ($10 prize pool $5 Scalp)
14/05/2008 $100 Freeroll
15/05/2008 $50 + $5 No Limit holdem Freezeout
16/05/2008 $25 + $2.50 Deepstack Hold'em
17/05/2008 $1000 Freeroll
18/05/2008 $100+$10 No Limit Hold Em F.O. 5000 starting chips, 15 minute clock.
19/05/2008 $10 + $1 No Limit holdem with Rebuys
20/05/2008 $15 + $1.50 Scalp tournament ($10 prize pool $5 Scalp)
21/05/2008 $5 + $.50 Short handed No limit Hold'em with Rebuys IF CHELSEA WIN CHAMPIONS LEAGUE places 2,3,4,5 & 6 will have their prizemoney doubled.
22/05/2008 $10 + $1 No Limit holdem Freezeout
23/05/2008 $25 + $2.50 Deepstack Hold'em
24/05/2008 $100 Freeroll
25/05/2008 $5 + $.50 Short handed No limit Hold'em with Rebuys
26/05/2008 Boards Invitational Freeroll with added Prize-money.
27/05/2008 $15 + $1.50 Scalp tournament ($10 prize pool $5 Scalp)
28/05/2008 $5 + $.50 Short handed No limit Hold'em with Rebuys
29/05/2008 Boylepoker invitational
30/05/2008 $10 + $1 No Limit holdem with Rebuys
31/05/2008 $1000 Freeroll

Thanks

Paul

Make the start times 8:30pm+ allowing the 9-6ers get home/dinner etc and make the freerolls turbos, better craic imo.

A 32 player final for a WSOP Package with a high % of donkyfish, no mater what Olly says this is ++EV for the "high rollers" come to think of it can you exclude them from entering , I'll deffo play a lot of them.

connie147

Can't see the purpose of a 32 man heads up tourney to decide the winner. Its a mtt player you want to represent you in Vegas. If your qualifying people through mtt's, why change it to heads up to see who qualifies?
Doesn't make sense to me.

Connie

ditpoker

Given that I'm a low stakes tournament player who is online value I am more or less the target audience for this. But I (and the vast majority of players like me) will look at this and think "hmm, impressive little schedule, but I have to win 2 MTT's to win a package to the WSOP", and any poker player with some cop on is smart enough to know the varience involved pretty much destroys an individuals chances of winning the WSOP package. Winning 2 tourneys in a row is VERY unlikely. The WSOP sats on stars, have say a satalite to the $650 qualifier, say, you have to finish in top 8 of a feeder to get a $650 ticket, and then finish in top 20 of the $650 qualifier to get a WSOP package. This appears to the lay player to be a far easier task to place well in 2 tournaments than to win 2 outright.

Surely the purpose of any promotion of this type is to make me want to deposit cash onto BoylePoker. In its current format I would not go out of my way to get cash on there. Its a nice little promotion for players who are already on boylepoker but will not attract new players, like me.

So, its pretty fruitless if I say X and Y wont work without suggesting something that I think would. I spoke to Paul last week about how if 1 customer wins the WSOP package that 1 customer will sing BoylePokers praises for a very long time. However, if the €10,000 package was redistributed into say 12 €850 packages that include €500 buy-in + expenses to, for example, the BigSlick €500 game in October, then thats 12 happy BoylePoker players who get a weekend of poker out of it. and not have 12 individual sats for 1 ticket each time, but have loads of feeders to say a $50 with 1 rebuy/topup (max spend $100) satalite with 12 packages added. That kinda game would generate at least 20 packages i'd imagine. I'd happily throw a couple of hundred euro onto Boyle to play that sat, knowing that a top 20 finish will get me a weekend of poker, a poker trip, albeit not on the scale of the WSOP, but a fun experience thanks to Boyle poker. Boyles would get 20 happy players, rather than one REALLY happy guy. They;d have 20 players decorated in boyle branded caps/hoodies etc playing the tournament. and any excess funds i'd deposit i'd happily play on their skin, at least for a while.

Thats going forward, but as it stands Boyle have 1 single WSOP package. Basically, i dont want to play a MTT where if i bust my balls for 3-5hrs and final table i end up with nothing to show for it. Maybe...

1st = WSOP €10,000 Main Event Package
2nd = WSOP €3000 package ($1500 event + travel)
3rd = €2000 Holiday credit at Topflight/BudgetTravel, whoever.
4th = €1500 Holiday credit at Topflight/BudgetTravel, whoever.
5th = Trip for 2 to Sunderland premiership game next season €750
6th = Trip for 2 to Sunderland premiership game next season €750
7th = Weekend break for 2 to some hotel in a backward part of Ireland thats not Dublin €500
8th = Weekend break for 2 to some hotel in a backward part of Ireland thats not Dublin €500

Its an extra €9,000 in prizes, but would make me more likely to deposit. And conversations like "ah lads I cant go to the pub on friday, i'm taking the missus to roscommon" "eh, why you going to roscommon" "I won a weekend for 2 on BoylePoker" ... that conversation doesnt happen if they win €500.

anyway... i should at least try and look busy in work...

Paul Spillane

Ok the promotion finally got completed and is on the site. Once again there have been changes. I scrapped the Heads up and its reverted to a traditional MTT.

Thank you to everyone for their time in responding both publicly and privately. I am trying to co-ordinate the tournament for the 26th which will be for Boards posters only and only for players that kindly responded.

I have listed all the views posted on this thread, some may have gone off the original post but have been very helpful. We are starting to get involved in more live events and the comments on here have most certainly been beneficial. Again after i have cleared it with the MOD's i will post info on here and make sure its under the correct section.

I have cleared it with Steo5 to post this, hope you like it http://www.boylepoker.com/sections/poker/d.asp?show=2008.05_wsop

[nicK]

ditpoker wrote: »

Given that I'm a low stakes tournament player who is online value I am more or less the target audience for this. But I (and the vast majority of players like me) will look at this and think "hmm, impressive little schedule, but I have to win 2 MTT's to win a package to the WSOP", and any poker player with some cop on is smart enough to know the varience involved pretty much destroys an individuals chances of winning the WSOP package. Winning 2 tourneys in a row is VERY unlikely. The WSOP sats on stars, have say a satalite to the $650 qualifier, say, you have to finish in top 8 of a feeder to get a $650 ticket, and then finish in top 20 of the $650 qualifier to get a WSOP package. This appears to the lay player to be a far easier task to place well in 2 tournaments than to win 2 outright.

Surely the purpose of any promotion of this type is to make me want to deposit cash onto BoylePoker. In its current format I would not go out of my way to get cash on there. Its a nice little promotion for players who are already on boylepoker but will not attract new players, like me.

So, its pretty fruitless if I say X and Y wont work without suggesting something that I think would. I spoke to Paul last week about how if 1 customer wins the WSOP package that 1 customer will sing BoylePokers praises for a very long time. However, if the €10,000 package was redistributed into say 12 €850 packages that include €500 buy-in + expenses to, for example, the BigSlick €500 game in October, then thats 12 happy BoylePoker players who get a weekend of poker out of it. and not have 12 individual sats for 1 ticket each time, but have loads of feeders to say a $50 with 1 rebuy/topup (max spend $100) satalite with 12 packages added. That kinda game would generate at least 20 packages i'd imagine. I'd happily throw a couple of hundred euro onto Boyle to play that sat, knowing that a top 20 finish will get me a weekend of poker, a poker trip, albeit not on the scale of the WSOP, but a fun experience thanks to Boyle poker. Boyles would get 20 happy players, rather than one REALLY happy guy. They;d have 20 players decorated in boyle branded caps/hoodies etc playing the tournament. and any excess funds i'd deposit i'd happily play on their skin, at least for a while.

Thats going forward, but as it stands Boyle have 1 single WSOP package. Basically, i dont want to play a MTT where if i bust my balls for 3-5hrs and final table i end up with nothing to show for it. Maybe...

1st = WSOP €10,000 Main Event Package
2nd = WSOP €3000 package ($1500 event + travel)
3rd = €2000 Holiday credit at Topflight/BudgetTravel, whoever.
4th = €1500 Holiday credit at Topflight/BudgetTravel, whoever.
5th = Trip for 2 to Sunderland premiership game next season €750
6th = Trip for 2 to Sunderland premiership game next season €750
7th = Weekend break for 2 to some hotel in a backward part of Ireland thats not Dublin €500
8th = Weekend break for 2 to some hotel in a backward part of Ireland thats not Dublin €500

Its an extra €9,000 in prizes, but would make me more likely to deposit. And conversations like "ah lads I cant go to the pub on friday, i'm taking the missus to roscommon" "eh, why you going to roscommon" "I won a weekend for 2 on BoylePoker" ... that conversation doesnt happen if they win €500.

anyway... i should at least try and look busy in work...

this is a much better proposal imo..
having to sign up to boyles and somehow win 2 ridiculously high varience mtt's isn't much of an incentive regardless of the extra few $'s thrown in..

Paul Spillane

Hi All

The promotion concludes tomorrow with a $1000 freeroll and the last chance to make the final 32 who will play off for the $13,000 WSOP package.

Mixed results from our point of view to be honest. Next time i think we will incorporate the opportunity to qualify for this type of prize off line as well as online.

Thanks to everyone who took part and who took the time to give us feedback, much appreciated.

We will be pricing up the MTT on June 9th by Tuesday for anyone who wants to take a punt on a mate qualifying though maximum bets will be resticted to prevent a 'coup' taking place.

Good luck to everyone who has qualified

Paul

krux

Paul Spillane wrote: »

Mixed results from our point of view to be honest. Next time i think we will incorporate the opportunity to qualify for this type of prize off line as well as online.

When you say mixed results, in what sense? were you disappointed with the numbers for the tournies?

Paul Spillane

Some of the tournaments were really well supported, others not as much as I would have hoped which i put down to a lack of online marketing (a problem soon to be addressed).

Having said that if the winner of the final MTT kicks on to the f/t of the WSOP and is happy to wear our merchandising (even turning down the millions that bigger sites will undoubtadly offer them :eek:) it will be deemed a tremendous success.

have a great weekend

Headspace

what a joke today is the first I heard of this and would deffo of played

GKidd

How about a mixed game tourney for a low buy-in (say $50) and winner takes all to the tune of $15,000 (to include Main event entry,coke and hooker fee and a few hours spunkfest in the cash games.

ianmc38

Having a live tournament is a lame idea. The whole idea of this is to promote and get players using Boyle Sports online poker room. It also discriminates against players who are working/studying/living abroad and means people living outside of the county where it's held will have to travel for the day./ Obviously an online sat is the way to go.