18Yr old starting training.

Kenmare

After tolerating my body for years I now feel that its time to get my act together.

Im 18yrs old, stand at 6'3" and weigh in at 10 stone 6 pounds. My prob is that I am incredibly thin (pics to come) and indeed my wrists are only around 6inches wide (all the way around).

Ive never really done any exercise, and was moderatly shocked to find (after trying a cycle machine) that my heart rate hit 200 (according to the metal thingy that is on the handle.

Now I dont mind putting in the time and effort, and can commit at tops around 500 euros to the endeavor. I would personally not like to be running if thats possible.

My aim is to actually have a body worth having. :rolleyes: I dont want a really toned body etc, just a body with some decent filling and strength behind it.

Ive also got a moderate stoop as well due to to many hours on the pc.

Im currently considering getting a machine of the link below

http://www.argos.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ArgosBrowseCounts?storeId=30001&identifier=9571018&jspStoreDir=argosie&Trail=C%24cip%3D1500012750%3EC%24cip%3D1500012789%3EC%24cip%3D1500012794&langId=-1&catalogId=1500001101

Are there any models you would personally recommend? I was thinking of getting one that would have me lying down since It looks as if they would help my chest muscles, which at the moment are non existant lol.


For my 500 euros I was sorta hoping that I could get some protein stuff out of it. I saw a link earlier on the site but cant locate it again. Seemed to be a good price to get the stuff.

My current regime is:

Get up 8:00am (maybe have breakfast (usually frosted shreddies)

Have multiple cups of coffee throughout the day (usually 5-10)

Have lunch at 2:00pm (maybe a sandwich, sometimes ill cook me some spaghetti )

Have dinner at around 5:30-6:30pm. Usually a very healthy dinner (potatoes, rice, pasta, always meat)

Have a beer, maybe some crisps later when I watch a film (eating some superb hula hoops as we speak ^_^)

Have a sandwich before bed (Whatever I can find, lemon curd, jam, ham, etc) (usually around 3:00am).


I realise that its not the most ideal diet in the world, am im willing to change it moderatly if needs be.


Your ideas?

P.s I can commit around 1- 1.5 hrs a day training, maybe more if needed.

If needs be I could spend another couple hundred. Money isnt the issue, i just dont want to be pouring money into nothing lol.

Thanks alot

Well, I exercise in that I walk up and down the stairs once (approx 16 steps.....)

justsomebloke

I wouldn't bother with one of those multigyms as they are very limited in what you can do

I would suggest with a budget of €500

you could get http://irish-lifting.com/product_info_equipment.php?cPath=1_15&products_id=259

http://irish-lifting.com/product_info_equipment.php?cPath=1_11&products_id=199

and

http://irish-lifting.com/product_info_equipment.php?cPath=1_5&products_id=165

for your €500 and you could do a lot more stuff

crotalus667

Kenmare wrote: »

indeed my wrists are only around 6inches wide (all the way around).

The size of your wrist means nothing apart for an indication of your bone structure, Concentrate on the measure ments of your waist , chest , upper arms (around the bi’s and tri’s), forearms , neck, upper and lower leg’s

Ive never really done any exercise, and was moderatly shocked to find (after trying a cycle machine) that my heart rate hit 200 (according to the metal thingy that is on the handle.

those things aren’t the most reliable

Ive also got a moderate stoop as well due to to many hours on the pc

.
That will more than likely correct itself with a few decent back workout's

Im currently considering getting a machine of the link below
Are there any models you would personally recommend?

none of them Im not trying to be funny but you will soon out grow the tiny weight stacks on most of them plus machines while good as part of a workout are no substitute for free weights

For 500 you can get a membership in a lot of different gym's including some of the better ones around Dublin Id recommend Pinnacle (450 for the year or 50 per month) it’s just of Hardcore street (the lane behind copper face jacks) it’s a pretty friendly crowd a lot of whom are on this board and it’s owned by the guy on this board that uses the handle Mickk he’s a really nice guy he also owns irish-lifting.com if your determined to go with the home set up it’s worth contacting Mickk for some guidance he knows what he’s talking about and he wont steer you wrong ,
I my self if I was getting some gear for the home would go with a power rack Power rack For the simple reason they are so versatile Keep in mind that you will still need to buy weights , a barbell and a bench to use with the rack in the end it will work out better value for money than one of those machines that you will end up out growing quickly unlike the power rack that you will never out grow (you just keep adding weight to the bar as you need it

For my 500 euros I was sorta hoping that I could get some protein stuff out of it. I saw a link earlier on the site but cant locate it again. Seemed to be a good price to get the stuff.

I do believe that this is the link Mickk's site

My current regime is:

Get up 8:00am (maybe have breakfast (usually frosted shreddies)

Switch to oars or shredded wheat and add some protein

Have multiple cups of coffee throughout the day (usually 5-10)

Start drinking it black without suger

Have lunch at 2:00pm (maybe a sandwich, sometimes ill cook me some spaghetti )

Where's the protien ??

Have dinner at around 5:30-6:30pm. Usually a very healthy dinner (potatoes, rice, pasta, always meat)

try and go easy on the carbs late at night , and stick to whole grains

Have a beer, maybe some crisps later when I watch a film (eating some superb hula hoops as we speak ^_^)

Kill it now , do you know what makes a good snack ??, chicken , tuna or low fat cottage cheese

I realise that its not the most ideal diet in the world, am im willing to change it moderatly if needs be.
Your ideas?

read the stickies

P.s I can commit around 1- 1.5 hrs a day training, maybe more if needed.

that will be plenty of time

Khannie

I'll start by saying:

crotalus667 wrote: »

read the stickies

+1 on this. They're super.

Something else to consider getting is a chin-up bar. With a weights set and a chin up bar you've got most of what you need to take part in crossfit which is a really good program IMO.

There is an Irish "chapter" or whatever it's called (I'm sure Colm will tell us) here so if you're nearby, I'd suggest dropping along.

I buy my unflavoured protein from bulk powders but if you want flavoured, I last used fitness ireland and found them very good. Pro-X is the whey to get IMO. Choc mint is nice with milk.

Malteaser!

If you're a student, some gyms offer student rates.

I think Total Fitness cost me 411e to join as a student if you're interested in going down that route!!

Money Shot

You will naturally 'fill out' and put on weight from age 18 to your early 20's, so I wouldn't worry about being skinny at 18.
I'm a bit taller than you, and I was the same - you take your stretch so obviuosly you will look skinny for a while. Then you will grow into your frame. You're body just needs to catch up - just eat plenty and you will grow naturally.

It's pretty common for taller guys to be skinny for a year or two - don't beat yourself up about it. Just eat big and well and by age 21 I'd wager you'll be a couple of stones heavier.

Khannie

Money Shot wrote: »

You will naturally 'fill out' and put on weight from age 18 to your early 20's, so I wouldn't worry about being skinny at 18.

Hadn't really thought of that, but it fits in with what happened to me. At 18 I was 8.5 stone :eek:. By 25 I was 10 stone ish (and looked better for it).

Size=everything

If I was you I would just eat everything in sight. When I first started I would eat until I literally felt sick you cant build muscle without lots and lots of food. Also get some more protein and cut out those cereals there full of sugar have eggs in the morning or porridge with a protein shake

t-ha

Money Shot wrote: »

It's pretty common for taller guys to be skinny for a year or two - don't beat yourself up about it. Just eat big and well and by age 21 I'd wager you'll be a couple of stones heavier.

Probably right - it takes alot of food to put on a few pounds of muscle so growing taller must take up all the calories you've got to spare. Keep eating!

Kenmare

Thanks for the response guys/gals, much appreciated.

So is there no way to change the thickness of my wrists. I know it sounds odd but I hate them the way they are at the moment.

Will take measurements now and post them, and will upload picture tonight.

So would this diet be ok?


Breakfast: Eat 2 eggs on toast with coffee.

Lunch: Eat a couple of fish sandwiches or have some salmon spaghetti (or beef)

Snack on sardines.

Dinner: keep the same as I dont make it but its full of protein etc anyway.

When watching a film, drink water and maybe some crisps.

I was looking at this (thanks for link) for my protein

http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/product.php?xProd=41

Dosent seem bad, 5kb for 35 sterling

Then there is this:

http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/product.php?xProd=175&xSec=18

A good 15 sterling dearer, but has quite good stats.


How long would they last approx? Would I be better going for the 20kg bundle? Also im going to be training til at least October, and will carry on if there is any improvement (do you think there will be?)

cheers

Kenmare

crotalus667 wrote: »

The size of your wrist means nothing apart for an indication of your bone structure, Concentrate on the measure ments of your waist , chest , upper arms (around the bi’s and tri’s), forearms , neck, upper and lower leg’s

in the cold my stats are:

wrists: 6.5
foreams (at thickest (at)) 10
foreams flexed 10.5
upper arms: 10
upper arms flexed 11
neck 14
chest 32
stomach (in the middle) 29
on the hips 33
lower leg (at fastest point) 13
ankle area 9
Upper leg (at fastest point) 19

Al_Fernz

Don't worry about the thickness of your wrists. You can't do anything about this. In fact I think that a smaller wrist size makes forearms look more impressive when they are developed.

Kenmare

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Don't worry about the thickness of your wrists. You can't do anything about this. In fact I think that a smaller wrist size makes forearms look more impressive when they are developed.

bugger was sorta hoping I could change that. They feel very flimsy to me ::D:eek::o

You think they would make them look more impressive? hmm..

Thanks for your advice.

Hanley

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Don't worry about the thickness of your wrists. You can't do anything about this. In fact I think that a smaller wrist size makes forearms look more impressive when they are developed.

Tis true. When it comes to creating the illusion of size, small joints are a blessing. Not so much for strength, but they rawk for appearance.

The regular whey concentrate of bulkpowders is fine. Don't bother with the isolate. It's a waste of money. Maybe pick up some dextrose too to add to a post workout shake. And get one of the 75ml scoops.

5kg should last you ages. I think there's about 25g of protein in a 30g scoop. There's 166 scoops in it (ish), so if you're taking in 75g of protein per day from the whey, then you should get almost 2 months out of it. If you're taking less, you'll get longer.

Kenmare

Hanley wrote: »

Tis true. When it comes to creating the illusion of size, small joints are a blessing. Not so much for strength, but they rawk for appearance.

The regular whey concentrate of bulkpowders is fine. Don't bother with the isolate. It's a waste of money. Maybe pick up some dextrose too to add to a post workout shake. And get one of the 75ml scoops.

5kg should last you ages. I think there's about 25g of protein in a 30g scoop. There's 166 scoops in it (ish), so if you're taking in 75g of protein per day from the whey, then you should get almost 2 months out of it. If you're taking less, you'll get longer.

Okay should I get

http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/product.php?xProd=80

NotMe

Kenmare wrote: »

Also im going to be training til at least October, and will carry on if there is any improvement (do you think there will be?)

Yeah go for big compound barbell exercises 3 times a week and eat loads and you can make big gains in size and strength in that time. I'm coming from a similar place and I went from 9.5 stone to 11 stone in around 3 months.

I'd recommend adding Starting Strength to your shopping list.
And consider using a mass gainer like MassX in place of the protein powder for the first few months for the extra calories.

Kenmare

Hanley wrote: »

Tis true. When it comes to creating the illusion of size, small joints are a blessing. Not so much for strength, but they rawk for appearance.

The regular whey concentrate of bulkpowders is fine. Don't bother with the isolate. It's a waste of money. Maybe pick up some dextrose too to add to a post workout shake. And get one of the 75ml scoops.

5kg should last you ages. I think there's about 25g of protein in a 30g scoop. There's 166 scoops in it (ish), so if you're taking in 75g of protein per day from the whey, then you should get almost 2 months out of it. If you're taking less, you'll get longer.

Damn the stuff gets expensive. (oh btw people I live in Kerry not Dublin)

Here is my shopping cart. Do you think it is all needed?

75ml Measure
Dextrose 20kg
L Glutamine 1kg
Omega 3 (Fish Oil) 500 x 1000mg Softgels
Ultra Fine Scottish Oats 5kg
Whey Protein Concentrate 80% *Instantised* 5kg (11lb)

Thats bringing me up to a grand total of 105 sterling.

Al_Fernz

Kenmare wrote: »

Damn the stuff gets expensive. (oh btw people I live in Kerry not Dublin)

Here is my shopping cart. Do you think it is all needed?

75ml Measure
Dextrose 20kg
L Glutamine 1kg
Omega 3 (Fish Oil) 500 x 1000mg Softgels
Ultra Fine Scottish Oats 5kg
Whey Protein Concentrate 80% *Instantised* 5kg (11lb)

Thats bringing me up to a grand total of 105 sterling.

Awwww Hell no! (said like Will Smith)

OP get your priorities right:
1) Find gym
2) Find good instuctor to teach you the correct technique of the big compound lifts i.e. squat, deadlift, bench, bent over row etc.
3) Lift as much weight as you can maintain while keeping good form.
4) Clean up your diet. Eat more protein, veg and healthy fats.

Rinse and repeat steps 3 and 4 for about 3 months and see what progress you make. Then perhaps look into supplementing what should be a massively cleaned up diet.

I think your being a bit naive when it comes to supplements - you do not need these supplements to achieve your goals. I would encourage you to educate yourself more about training and nutrition before making what appears to be a rash purchase.

Kenmare

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Awwww Hell no! (said like Will Smith)

OP get your priorities right:
1) Find gym
2) Find good instuctor to teach you the correct technique of the big compound lifts i.e. squat, deadlift, bench, bent over row etc.
3) Lift as much weight as you can maintain while keeping good form.
4) Clean up your diet. Eat more protein, veg and healthy fats.

Rinse and repeat steps 3 and 4 for about 3 months and see what progress you make. Then perhaps look into supplementing what should be a massively cleaned up diet.

I think your being a bit naive when it comes to supplements - you do not need these supplements to achieve your goals. I would encourage you to educate yourself more about training and nutrition before making what appears to be a rash purchase.

LOL.

The reason why I want to buy that stuff is because I am not an organised person per se and the last thing I want is there for there to be loads of days when I didnt get the right stuff (I dont buy most of the food). I was hoping that getting that kinda stuff would grant me more leniency in the department of food.

In regards the gym, you are correct. I live 3 miles of country roads from the nearest gym, and while I hold a license unfortunatly due to some circumstances am not allowed to get a car. Again lift downs should be no prob but I dont want to be limited and dependant. Eg there could be a stretch where I may not be able to go to the gym for whatever reasons. Having the stuff in my house should make it substantially easier.

I appreciate your suggestions though, and I will definitly look into it.

Al_Fernz

Kenmare wrote: »

LOL.

The reason why I want to buy that stuff is because I am not an organised person per se and the last thing I want is there for there to be loads of days when I didnt get the right stuff (I dont buy most of the food). I was hoping that getting that kinda stuff would grant me more leniency in the department of food.

In regards the gym, you are correct. I live 3 miles of country roads from the nearest gym, and while I hold a license unfortunatly due to some circumstances am not allowed to get a car. Again lift downs should be no prob but I dont want to be limited and dependant. Eg there could be a stretch where I may not be able to go to the gym for whatever reasons. Having the stuff in my house should make it substantially easier.

I appreciate your suggestions though, and I will definitly look into it.

From what I've heard Arnie used had to cycle a few miles to go to the gym when he was younger.

If you're motivated enough you will find a way to get to the gym, lift efficiently and manage your nutrition correctly. It's not a question of being organised - its a question of how badly you want to achieve your goals.

Khannie

Al_Fernz wrote: »

you do not need these supplements to achieve your goals. I would encourage you to educate yourself more about training and nutrition before making what appears to be a rash purchase.

Just wanted to echo this. Start training first. Buy supplements later. Only after about a year of solid training did I look into whey (and only then because other sources of protein were becoming prohibitively expensive).

Do something.

Do it as hard as you can.

Eat well.

Eat plenty.

Worry about supplements later.

Good luck.

crotalus667

Khannie wrote: »

Only after about a year of solid training did I look into whey (and only then because other sources of protein were becoming prohibitively expensive).

dont wait a year your post workout shake is one of the most important things in your diet it schould consist of .8g of fast digesting carbs (I use dextrose ) and .4g of protien from whey per kg of body weight

Size=everything

Agree with the poster above theres absolutely no reason to not start taking protein now its essential to help rebuilding muscle after a workout

Khannie

crotalus667 wrote: »

dont wait a year your post workout shake is one of the most important things in your diet it schould consist of .8g of fast digesting carbs (I use dextrose ) and .4g of protien from whey per kg of body weight

I didn't say that the OP should wait a year. Only the he should start exercising first and be sure he's going to commit to it (a lot of people don't) before shelling out on expensive supplements. Too many people focus on the supplements side of things before actually getting their finger out at all. Start now. Worry about supplements later.

Also, there are plenty of ways to get protein and carbs into your body after a workout that don't involve whey and dextrose. A nice lump of chicken and some jaffa cakes will do the job nicely for example.

dave80

Khannie wrote: »

Also, there are plenty of ways to get protein and carbs into your body after a workout that don't involve whey and dextrose. A nice lump of chicken and some jaffa cakes will do the job nicely for example.

latest research tells us that its important to get fast digesting carbs and potein as soon as a workout finishes, as in dextrose and whey, chicken and other carbs should be taken about an 1-2 hours later so they tell us

crotalus667

Khannie wrote: »

Also, there are plenty of ways to get protein and carbs into your body after a workout that don't involve whey and dextrose. A nice lump of chicken and some jaffa cakes will do the job nicely for example.

Jaffa cakes are hardly Ideal as for chicken whilst it does tend to be lean it can contain enough fat to slow down digestion , tuna or turkey are much better choices I think the problem here is that people are calling whey a supplement when it is really a food source , by the whey (no pun intended) op dextrose is more commonly called glucose you will find it in powered form in the local super value’s baking isle (yes I know there is a super value in Kenmare) starting off id definitely recommend you pick up some whey, dextrose and a good multi vitamin after you get into training you can start thinking about stuff like createn (im pretty sure I spelt that wrong) no booster’s and the other’s
Ps
Id also recommend a digital kitchen scale they are sooo handy

Khannie

crotalus667 wrote: »

Jaffa cakes are hardly Ideal as for chicken whilst it does tend to be lean it can contain enough fat to slow down digestion , tuna or turkey are much better choices

What you're talking about here is squeezing out the last 10%. The OP hasn't even gotten the first 10% yet. Jaffa cakes and chicken are just fine PWO (and were only an example). The difference between jaffa cakes + chicken V's whey + dextrose (if any) is really not that important until you're at a _much_ higher level than the OP is at.

My point is simply that he should not go rushing out to buy 105 pounds sterling worth of stuff from bulkpowders before actually doing some exercise!

dave80 wrote: »

latest research tells us that its important to get fast digesting carbs and potein as soon as a workout finishes, as in dextrose and whey, chicken and other carbs should be taken about an 1-2 hours later so they tell us

To the best of my knowledge, whey is not a fast digesting protein. Fast digesting carbs are all around you in the supermarket.

crotalus667

Khannie wrote: »

What you're talking about here is squeezing out the last 10%. The OP hasn't even gotten the first 10% yet..

So your saying that he should start by not giving 100% ?? Nutrition is half the battle post workout nutrition is the most important part of that battle .

Jaffa cakes and chicken are just fine PWO (and were only an example).

No no no they are not :rolleyes:

To the best of my knowledge, whey is not a fast digesting protein. Fast digesting carbs are all around you in the supermarket

Dude your Knowledge is seriously lacking


Op save some money and order from Mickk's site (www.irish-lifting.com )it's free delivery on orders over 100 euro's get some pro x whey and a multi vit ,it's dispatched in 2 working days so you will have it by tue/wensday, buy dex and oats at your local supermarket it will workout cheaper than ordering online from the uk

sunzz

You're going to bed at 3am and are up at 8am on a regular basis :eek:

Seroiusly NOT GOOD FOR YOUR BODY.

Sleep and rest is one of the most important factors whilst working out.

davyjose

sunzz wrote: »

You're going to bed at 3am and are up at 8am on a regular basis :eek:

Seroiusly NOT GOOD FOR YOUR BODY.

Sleep and rest is one of the most important factors whilst working out.

Totally agree, once in a while you can get away with - regularly, forget about it. If you cant get to bed by 12, you will just run yourself to nothing.

Khannie

crotalus667 wrote: »

So your saying that he should start by not giving 100% ??

I said he should just start. I think you're overstating the benefit of whey + dextrose v's other carbs and other protein post workout (to the value of £105 stg). The guy should start first and worry about supplements after some time has passed. Not once did I say that carbs + protein weren't important post workout. Only that there are other sources that are very close to being as good and wont require shelling out lots of money up front for.

No no no they are not :rolleyes:

What's so wrong with jaffa cakes post workout? They have a very high carb content that is very quickly absorbed.

crotalus667 wrote: »

Dude your Knowledge is seriously lacking

In what way? I could say the same of you without backing it up in some way. Sure I'll throw in an oul' rolleyes like you did. :rolleyes:

Are you saying that whey is quickly digested? Faster than say, egg white? Are you saying that fast digesting carbs are _NOT_ all around you in the supermarket? Sure they're the reason that half the country is overweight.

Hanley

Khannie wrote: »

In what way? I could say the same of you without backing it up in some way. Sure I'll throw in an oul' rolleyes like you did. :rolleyes:

Are you saying that whey is quickly digested? Faster than say, egg white? Are you saying that fast digesting carbs are _NOT_ all around you in the supermarket? Sure they're the reason that half the country is overweight.

If you're going to try and tell someone what to do, at least know what you're talking about....

Whey IS fast digesting. That is why you use it post workout. It's metabolised faster and enters the blood stream quicker than caesin. I think amino levels are peaked after abotu 40 mins. Faster digestion = faster recovery simply.

Caesin IS slow digesting. That's why it's recommended to be used at night. It's metabolised over the course of 4+ hours I believe and there's much less of an amino level "spiking". It's a slow controlled release.

I don't know why you're comparing fast digesting carbs to fast digesting protein. They're completely different animals. Not even worthy of being discussed together. That's probably what Crotalus was getting at.

chickenhawk

You drink 5-10 cups of coffee? That is a serious amount. The max recommended per day is 3-5 depending on the person. So you are double the rda. If you told a doctor this i'm pretty confident they would tell you that you are addicted to coffee!

Just wanted to add that in my opinion (qualifed personal trainer) I would stay away from the protein shakes and the creatine etc. Unless you want to become really well built and intend putting in some serious hours these are not worth the money. Also there long term effects have not been studied. If you feel after a few months of training you want more muscle then reconsider taking them but otherwise a natural healthy diet is much better.

Hanley

chickenhawk wrote: »

Just wanted to add that in my opinion (qualifed personal trainer) I would stay away from the protein shakes and the creatine etc. Unless you want to become really well built and intend putting in some serious hours these are not worth the money. Also there long term effects have not been studied. If you feel after a few months of training you want more muscle then reconsider taking them but otherwise a natural healthy diet is much better.

Just goes to show qualifications don't always mean that much...

The "long term effects not being studied" is the standard response of someone who hasn't put any real reasearch into a topic. Smoking's been shown to be harmful long term, but doesn't stop anyone.

Of course we're not talking about smoking. We're talking about a food source. Just to be safe should we all stop eating any food until the long term effects have been shown and studied?

Khannie

Hanley wrote: »

If you're going to try and tell someone what to do, at least know what you're talking about....

Fair enough, I stand corrected on the speed of wheys absorbtion. That was NOT my original point though. My point was that the guy should not shell out 105 pounds sterling on supplements and whey before at least beginning some exercise!

Surely you, of all people, don't believe that it's worth shelling out that kind of money before you've even lifted your arse off your chair?

I don't know why you're comparing fast digesting carbs to fast digesting protein. They're completely different animals. Not even worthy of being discussed together. That's probably what Crotalus was getting at.

I didn't compare them at all!

Khannie

chickenhawk wrote: »

YI would stay away from the protein shakes

Just want to be absolutely clear and say that I disagree with this. I use whey because it's a comparatively cheap source of good protein.

Hanley

Khannie wrote: »

Surely you, of all people, don't believe that it's worth shelling out that kind of money before you've even lifted your arse off your chair?

If he's gonna actually go to the gym then having some carbs and protein to take PWO will be a benefit. It's not completely necessary, but if the option's available he should take it, imo!

crotalus667

Hanley wrote: »

If he's gonna actually go to the gym then having some carbs and protein to take PWO will be a benefit. It's not completely necessary, but if the option's available he should take it, imo!

+1

crotalus667

Khannie wrote: »

I said he should just start. I think you're overstating the benefit of whey + dextrose v's other carbs and other protein post workout

I dont think im overstating it ,:p

What's so wrong with jaffa cakes post workout? They have a very high carb content that is very quickly absorbed.

1 they are not as quick as dextrose

2 they cost more than dextrose

3 they have a pile of other stuff (crap) in them that the body does not need

Dextrose is sold in the same places as jaffa cakes , are you really telling me given the choice you would rather chose a less effective more expensive product over a more effective product that costs less ???

In what way? I could say the same of you without backing it up in some way. Sure I'll throw in an oul' rolleyes like you did. :rolleyes:

I think Hanley has answered that

Are you saying that fast digesting carbs are _NOT_ all around you in the supermarket? Sure they're the reason that half the country is overweight

There is a big difference between fast digesting carbs that are good for you ,and fast digesting carbs that are part of a pile of processed crap,

ps
half I think it's more like 60% of adults :eek:

Khannie

Hanley wrote: »

If he's gonna actually go to the gym then having some carbs and protein to take PWO will be a benefit.

We're all agreed on this.

Hanley wrote: »

It's not completely necessary, but if the option's available he should take it, imo!

The option isn't free though. What I disagree with is shelling out 105 sterling at the offset. The option will still be there after (say) 12 weeks of using other sources of simple carbs and protein and gains will be very similar. The vast majority of people who start an exercise regime don't make it past 12 weeks. We've all seen it. How many full gyms in January are nice and calm again by the end of March?

Khannie

crotalus667 wrote: »

I dont think im overstating it ,:p

Fair enough.

crotalus667 wrote: »

Dextrose is sold in the same places as jaffa cakes , are you really telling me given the choice you would rather chose a less effective more expensive product over a more effective product that costs less ???

I should say up front that I do use jaffa cakes or other sugary biscuits PWO. I probably have different training goals to you though. I'm a fighter so weight is an issue for me. Given the choice between a protein shake and a bunch of jaffa cakes (treat) or a protein shake + dextrose, I'll take the former. It's a lot more satisfying if you're on a calorie restricted diet.

I wouldn't dispute for a second that dextrose will be absorbed faster and is cheaper. Probably the main reason I use whey is that it's cheap and other sources of protein are expensive. My primary concern is that this guy is shelling out a _lot_ of cash and he's just starting out. I think that at the start he should use other sources of protein and simple carbs, then buy whey etc. later.

crotalus667 wrote: »

There is a big difference between fast digesting carbs that are good for you ,and fast digesting carbs that are part of a pile of processed crap,

Dextrose is a pile of processed crap too. It just happens to fit the bill of what works best for your body PWO. It's the kind of thing you'd avoid like the plague if you weren't exercising regularly though.

crotalus667 wrote: »

ps
half I think it's more like 60% of adults :eek:

I'd be very interested to know what the rates of obesity are like in < 18's now. Anecdotally it seems to me that the average weight of teenagers is skyrocketing.

Kenmare

sunzz wrote: »

You're going to bed at 3am and are up at 8am on a regular basis :eek:

Seroiusly NOT GOOD FOR YOUR BODY.

Sleep and rest is one of the most important factors whilst working out.

^_^ The way I look at it, sleep is a total waste of time. I have no prob sleeping. and it does me grand. This will probably change as the training will make me tired. As it is atm I dont get tired per se

Kenmare

chickenhawk wrote: »

You drink 5-10 cups of coffee? That is a serious amount. The max recommended per day is 3-5 depending on the person. So you are double the rda. If you told a doctor this i'm pretty confident they would tell you that you are addicted to coffee!

I wouldnt say im addicted. I would drink tea, but tea makes me feel bloody hungry whenever I drink it for some reason.

Coffee is quick and easy to make. I started the other day to drink only water but gave up on the 3rd day as it was making me severly bad tempered. Again when I start my training the coffee will probably go and ill drink milky coffee (coffee made with hot milk instead of water).

Kenmare

Khannie wrote: »

Fair enough.



I should say up front that I do use jaffa cakes or other sugary biscuits PWO. I probably have different training goals to you though. I'm a fighter so weight is an issue for me. Given the choice between a protein shake and a bunch of jaffa cakes (treat) or a protein shake + dextrose, I'll take the former. It's a lot more satisfying if you're on a calorie restricted diet.

I wouldn't dispute for a second that dextrose will be absorbed faster and is cheaper. Probably the main reason I use whey is that it's cheap and other sources of protein are expensive. My primary concern is that this guy is shelling out a _lot_ of cash and he's just starting out. I think that at the start he should use other sources of protein and simple carbs, then buy whey etc. later.





Dextrose is a pile of processed crap too. It just happens to fit the bill of what works best for your body PWO. It's the kind of thing you'd avoid like the plague if you weren't exercising regularly though.





I'd be very interested to know what the rates of obesity are like in < 18's now. Anecdotally it seems to me that the average weight of teenagers is skyrocketing.

Thanks for your help dude, I understand we all have different ways of doing things, and I appreciated your input as well as your look out for me.

Ive had an update. My parents are willing to "sponser" me to go to gym (eg they will pay the fees ) so I might take them up on the offer (they will also drop me down). My parents think the morning will be the best time. Would you agree with that?

If I take them up on the offer, the issue of money becomes more or less redundant, so I'll put it to you. Im a 18yr old with the above stats looking to get some muscle on his measly body. He has 120 sterling in which to spend (or euros) what is his best way to spend the money. This dude WILL keep up with his schedule (if I dont you dudes can have the stuff I dont use ^_^).

oh btw im posting a few pics in a minute

Hanley

Kenmare wrote: »

I wouldnt say im addicted. I would drink tea, but tea makes me feel bloody hungry whenever I drink it for some reason.

Coffee is quick and easy to make. I started the other day to drink only water but gave up on the 3rd day as it was making me severly bad tempered. Again when I start my training the coffee will probably go and ill drink milky coffee (coffee made with hot milk instead of water).

You're not addicted, but by not having coffee you get bad tempered. Hmmmm....

By the way, just because you have the money available doesn't mean you have to spend it. Just get 5kg of protein and 5kg of dextrose and a 75ml scoop. Either get some of this stuff http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/section.php?xSec=20 or some options light drinking chocolate to flavour it. It's not every nice without one of those.

You'll also need one of these;


What time you train at doesn't really matter to be honest. Just try to have at least 60-90 mins from waking up until you start training.

The first month or two should be devoted to learning the big lifts (squat, bench and deadlift), this will necessitate lighter weights so you might not see HUGE improvements really quickly, but by putting down solid foundations on these lifts you'll be well set to contiune to make improvments into the future.

crotalus667

Kenmare wrote: »

Ive had an update. My parents are willing to "sponser" me to go to gym (eg they will pay the fees ) so I might take them up on the offer

Do you even have to think about it ??? grab the offer with both hands and dont let go

(they will also drop me down). My parents think the morning will be the best time. Would you agree with that?

If it's good enough for Arnold (Schwarzenegger) it's good enough for you
The thinking behind it is that you can give it your all when your still fresh from 7-8 hours of sleep (yes the sleep is important your body needs it to recover)

He has 120 sterling in which to spend (or euros) what is his best way to spend the money.

Hanley’s advice is pretty spot on one thing id add is a multi vit , if your that eager to spend the rest of the cash it’s worth while investing in some decent books (that’s a whole other thread)

Kenmare

okay here are my pics. Sorry about background had to get my little bros to take the pictures








The first two pictures I didnt flex anything, but I did for the third. As you can see, there is no groundwork already in place

Its going to be one hell of a uphill struggle

Kenmare

crotalus667 wrote: »

Do you even have to think about it ??? grab the offer with both hands and dont let go




If it's good enough for Arnold (Schwarzenegger) it's good enough for you
The thinking behind it is that you can give it your all when your still fresh from 7-8 hours of sleep (yes the sleep is important your body needs it to recover)


Hanley’s advice is pretty spot on one thing id add is a multi vit , if your that eager to spend the rest of the cash it’s worth while investing in some decent books (that’s a whole other thread)

Books are no prob. I can get any book I want.

crotalus667

Khannie wrote: »

Dextrose is a pile of processed crap too.

Let’s see what the ingredient list for dextrose is hmmm 100% Dextrose monohydrate ok now would you like to the ingredients from your jaffa cakes ??

There’s a difference between processed food and a food that is comprised of a pile of processed crap

I'd be very interested to know what the rates of obesity are like in < 18's now. Anecdotally it seems to me that the average weight of teenagers is skyrocketing

.

Im not sure of the stats but from my observations they are horrendous (my mother runs a national schools so I have cause to be around the school every now and then) growing up I was one of a hand full in the class that was over weight (there where about 3 of us) now it seams that at least a third of kids are over weight and it seems even worse in the secondary schools some of the local kids are HUGE

crotalus667

Kenmare wrote: »

Sorry about background had to get my little bros to take the pictures

I hope your parents did'ent walk in

The first two pictures I didnt flex anything, but I did for the third. As you can see, there is no groundwork already in place

You haven’t flexed in the 3rd pic either your selling yourself short look up “ front double bicep” online your bicep will show it’s self fully in this pose ,

Its going to be one hell of a uphill struggle

It's up hill for everyone Hanley is the world drug free junior power lifting champ (under 100kg I think) he still had do a lot of things you have to do to get where he is, like picking up a weight for the first time learning how to lift properly

You look like you have a pretty low body fat which is a good start you wont have to worry as much about body your fat going up

crotalus667

Kenmare wrote: »

Books are no prob. I can get any book I want.

Id suggest

old school but good

this is a must

this website is filled with great info

Hanley can you suggest any books ??