My diet

unreggd

Male, 20

5'10

65Kg

Approx 10% body fat

Goal: Gain lean mass

Diet:

[Breakfast]Porridge OR scrambled eggs (2/3 medium eggs) + water/juice

[2] Protein Shake [50g] [after workout on a workout day]

[Lunch in Work] Large tub of Tuna & Sweetcorn or 2 diced chicken fillets + Petit Filous + Apple/banana + water/milk/juice

[Dinner] Meat [mostly lean steak OR chicken fillets] + Veg [brocolli, cauliflower, carrots] + water/milk/juice

[Late evening] Sandwich- Brown bread with Tuna or chicken (from fillets) OR 3/4 Rye-bread with soft cheese spread

Snacks throughout the day:
Peanuts/Cashews
Cheese
Fruit


Weight training: A lot of free weights, still some machines. Upping the weight a bit every 2 weeks


Ok, my body fat was 12.5 before Xmas, and after a pic n mix binge in London i stopped eating sweets, altogether

I also cut down on carbs [little bread, dont really eat pasta, potatoes or rice anymore]

and dont do cardio anymore [for the time being]

I guessed my calorie output for weight training, so accordin to the Calorie Needs equation, i need about 3260 calories a day to add mass

I work 5 days a week, 4 til half 10, so only have the one meal between them times, and i sleep in a lot [= late breakfast]

unreggd

So any advice on how im doin?

alie

Gosh you sound fit.

DILLIGAF

You say your goal is lean mass? So you want to get ripped muscle wise? At 10st 3lbs you might want to jack up to around 11.5 or even 12st and then work on that as a foundation. Otherwise your going for a really light framed look but with obvious muscle groupings.

If you increase your carbs with all that protein then you'll put on weight in no time. I was 9 and a half stone at christmas, now I'm 11.5 and going for a full 185lbs/13stone! Christian Bale baby!!!!

Anyway can you explain more about your goal and what your doing it for? What work you do? Is it for the fitness and the studly look that goes with it?

I'm off to the army and figure it'll be no harm to be a little tanked up before going in as their going to break it down anyway!

unreggd

DILLIGAF wrote: »

Is it for the fitness and the studly look that goes with it?

Thats the one!


I just dont wanna put on a loada fat again, but i guess I should jus suck it up and stick to the ol bulk then cut

And I spose ill hafta just find the time to eat more!

Thanks

DILLIGAF

well you could do a month of muscle fuel mass, usn make a wicked one. This will replace your protein shakes until it's gone. Then go back on the protein shakes and maybe some nitrus boosting stuff and you'll be all pumped and hulk like!

What kinda weight training are you doing? Are you doing splits? Like each day on a different muscle group?

Hanley

More carbs!!

I went from fairly ripped in Jan/Feb '06 (85.9k and about 8-10% bodyfat) to 101.5-102kg at about 18% bodyfat today. I look a fair bit bigger, and am a hell of a lot stronger as a result. I'm gonna start working back down towards 12-14% once my exams are over in 4 weeks time. This should put me at about 95kg and just in the right area to compete at sub 90kg and go after a triple bodyweight squat and deadlift!

unreggd

DILLIGAF wrote: »

What kinda weight training are you doing? Are you doing splits? Like each day on a different muscle group?

Not doin sets, and only goin 3 times a week [damn my job!!]

but im gna try go 4 times, split. Theres plenty on me program to keep me busy

Should I bother with a weight gainer? is it not just protein with extra calories?

DILLIGAF

four days would rule,that extra day will keep you nicely pumped and bridge your workouts over your recovery days much better!

As for the muscle mass, it's not just calories, it's all the carbs it's loaded with. For every 40-50g serving of protein you'll get around 80-90g of carbs! FEEL THE BUUURRRN!! haha! You'll get loads of energy off them but the carbs or that extra size, one month long, and you'll have plenty to work with!

unreggd

k, ill give it a go :cool:

Im gna just have set days for the gym. I kinda go by "every 2nd day" but then if i miss one day, it messes the cycle

thanks

Al_Fernz

unreggd wrote: »

Male, 20

5'10

65Kg

Approx 10% body fat

Goal: Gain lean mass

Diet:

[Breakfast]Porridge AND scrambled eggs (8 large eggs) + water/juice

[2] Protein Shake [50g] [after workout on a workout day] Either change this to a recovery shake like RAM X or add simple carb (maltodextrin/Dextrose) to protein shake - you need to replace muscle glycogen PWO.

[Lunch in Work] Large tub of Tuna & Sweetcorn or 2 diced chicken fillets + Natural yogurt + Apple/banana + water/milk/juice +Serving of Brown Rice/WW Pasta

[Dinner] Meat [mostly lean steak OR chicken fillets] + Veg [brocolli, cauliflower, carrots] + water/milk/juice

[Late evening] Sandwich- Brown bread with Tuna or chicken (from fillets) OR 3/4 Rye-bread with soft cheese spread +Protein shake made with milk for slow digestion as you sleep.

Snacks throughout the day:
Peanuts/Cashews
Cheese
Fruit
Olive/Sesame seed oil

Here are some changes I would make.

Also check out experimenting with tins of salmon - IMO much nicer than tuna and should give you some variation.

Glugging some olive or sesame seed oil should help to up your cals and help get the T flowing.

Never let yourself go hungry and eat something at least every 3 hours. I.e anticipate your hunger.

smashey

alie wrote: »

Gosh you sound fit.

Nice. :rolleyes:

Infraction given.

unreggd

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Here are some changes I would make.

Also check out experimenting with tins of salmon - IMO much nicer than tuna and should give you some variation.

Glugging some olive or sesame seed oil should help to up your cals and help get the T flowing.

Never let yourself go hungry and eat something at least every 3 hours. I.e anticipate your hunger.

Are ye mad, 8 large eggs????


Also, I cant even stand food cooked in Olive Oil, so that wont work out

still, thanks, ill try out the rest

Al_Fernz

Well I eat 8 large eggs maybe 4 mornings a week and I'm fine. Just get them into you.

I was saying to chug some olive oil in between meals -not the nicest I agree. Have you tried sesame seed oil? Its a much better tasting alternative and tastes delicious with almost anything.

unreggd

Not generally a fan of drinkin oil!!

I just cook meat with Vegetable/Sunflower oil
and eggs, if i fry them


I was thinkin of gettin salmon too but havin to debone canned fish is annoyin! I eat a good bit of mackerel too

Ill just try build on wha ye gave me, and maybe a good gainer too


Anyone know what RAM tastes like? its on offer atm but I always have a feelin its gonna taste gank. think it comes in strawberry or orange

Al_Fernz

unreggd wrote: »

Not generally a fan of drinkin oil!!

I just cook meat with Vegetable/Sunflower oil
and eggs, if i fry them


I was thinkin of gettin salmon too but havin to debone canned fish is annoyin! I eat a good bit of mackerel too

Ill just try build on wha ye gave me, and maybe a good gainer too


Anyone know what RAM tastes like? its on offer atm but I always have a feelin its gonna taste gank. think it comes in strawberry or orange

Personally I eat the bones in tinned salmon, without any ill-effects.

RAM tastes like a small piece of heaven after a hard workout.

Strawberry and orange are both good - orange is nicer on its own though. IMO mixing both flavours together works even better!

unreggd

what is it like? A protein shake or a bottle of lucozade sport?

they added lemon and lime

Im gna get a good gainer, and I usually have some lucozade sport after the gym anyways

thanks

Al_Fernz

unreggd wrote: »

what is it like? A protein shake or a bottle of lucozade sport?

a little of column a a little of column b!

unreggd

Ok, so im takin all this on board

gonna hit the gym 4 times a week

take a RAM shake after my workout, and a good Gainer shake before bed, and follow the food guidelines as much as possible


Would a 2 month bulk be alright? I wanna have time t get my fat back down for the end of July [summer in canada, woo!]

Al_Fernz

unreggd wrote: »

Ok, so im takin all this on board

gonna hit the gym 4 times a week

take a RAM shake after my workout, and a good Gainer shake before bed, and follow the food guidelines as much as possible


Would a 2 month bulk be alright? I wanna have time t get my fat back down for the end of July [summer in canada, woo!]

IMO its all about experimenting and finding out what foods and quantities suit you. You should have an idea of what good foods you should be eating. If you're not gaining weight you need to eat more. If you start getting fat you need to eat less or train harder. If you're visibly gaining muscle you know that you're on the right track.

IMO I don't agree with the whole "bulking" philosophy. I won't disagree that it has been successful for lots of dedicated bodybuilders. But I've seen a few examples of your average Joe eating excessive kcals in an attempt to bulk and just getting fat. Its a shotgun approach to nutrition. Eating excessive kcals facilitates muscle growth yes, but eating too much will lead to fat gain. So at the end of it all you could train like a demon, eat food until you stop enjoying it and then end up looking like Josh Peck:


Then when you go to "cut" you temporarily under nourish yourself and loose a lot of the muscle gained in the "bulking" phase. Then you're back to square one. Doh!

Thats all my opinion based on what I've seen others do over the years. Its all about learning what works for you, so you can achieve your goals in the long term. Remember, Rome wasn't built in day so leave the "bulking" to the bears for winter!

Hey man whats your training like?

DILLIGAF

I can see what the poster above me is getting at. But he's talking too much about people who aren't dedicated to what their trying to achieve! Sure eating lots and not training right will make you fat, this is basics gentlemen, but when your trying to get ripped out and currently only weigh in at around 10st, then getting ripped may make you look under nourished.

The idea of bulking up to get ripped is simply the foundations of bodybuilding and without following the guidelines laid by the pros and by those who gain for personal reasons then none of us would achieve in the way we want to.

You won't end up like some fat kid overnight that's absurd, if you drink a lot, smoke, don't train much but think that consuming a bucket of protein will get you big and blocky then you may have some problems. As it is, it sounds like your on a good path to getting where you want to be, so stick with it, train hard and you'll be quietly gloating at your own reflection in no time!

celestial

It depends on your body type really though. The OP is 5'10" and 10 stone or so, single digit bodyfat. If he's the type (and sounds like he is) who can generally eat whatever and not put on any or much fat and is prepared to lift hard and often then I reckon he can up the cals a fair bit. If he does get fat then just drop the cals down again.

Just keep it simple.

DILLIGAF

celestial wrote: »

It depends on your body type really though. The OP is 5'10" and 10 stone or so, single digit bodyfat. If he's the type (and sounds like he is) who can generally eat whatever and not put on any or much fat and is prepared to lift hard and often then I reckon he can up the cals a fair bit. If he does get fat then just drop the cals down again.

Just keep it simple.

+1

Hanley

Al_Fernz wrote: »

IMO I don't agree with the whole "bulking" philosophy. I won't disagree that it has been successful for lots of dedicated bodybuilders. But I've seen a few examples of your average Joe eating excessive kcals in an attempt to bulk and just getting fat. Its a shotgun approach to nutrition. Eating excessive kcals facilitates muscle growth yes, but eating too much will lead to fat gain. So at the end of it all you could train like a demon, eat food until you stop enjoying it and then end up looking like Josh Peck:


Then when you go to "cut" you temporarily under nourish yourself and loose a lot of the muscle gained in the "bulking" phase. Then you're back to square one. Doh!

Thats all my opinion based on what I've seen others do over the years. Its all about learning what works for you, so you can achieve your goals in the long term. Remember, Rome wasn't built in day so leave the "bulking" to the bears for winter!

Hey man whats your training like?

Eh not going to happen. If you're training hard and smart you will build muscle with excess calories. You might gain some fat, but getting soft and flabby wont happen overnight. Especially when you're 5'10, 65kg and single digit bodyfat.

What "others" have you seen over the years? Like who are you basing your opinions of bulking and cutting not working off?

unreggd

From another thread...

Tribulus wrote:

put very generally, training stimulates muscle growth, food (enough cals and protein, some fat, some carbs, plenty of veg, water etc.) facilitates the growth by providing the nutrients, rest/recovery allows time for the muscle to heal and grow bigger/stronger whatever.

You have to train consistently and eat enough consistently and get enough sleep and recuperation from training

Emerson

Just to go back to what Al_Fernz was suggesting to do. Glugging on oil is a sure fire way to reduce your life expectancy with no enjoyment factor.
It's just dense, nutrientless calories and gives your body no micro nutrients to repair work out damage.

Sure, consume oil with a vegetable or meat to make them more pallatable but consuming it straight is just (IMO) crazy.

Remember, in studies done on animals, increased raw (generally pure oil/sugar used on mice) calories decreased their lifespan.
Many years ago, experiments to feed farm animals and oil and sugar mix (nutrientless) ended in dismal failure with sickness/death of the animals. URL="http://books.google.com.au/books?id=8uIHAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA485&lpg=PA485&dq=%22animals+fed%22+sugar+oil&source=web&ots=HaWS0QULMf&sig=MVQupxG0NzaUI5Z_Q6oPY6D00Cw&hl=en"]link[/URL

Therefore, I would reccomend all significant calories should be nutrient and antioxidant dense (eg Avocado, Nuts, Seeds, Sweet Fruits, Meats etc) or accompany nutritionally dense foods.
My focus is on lots of Fruits, lots of Vegetables, Whole Grains, Meats. Snack on nuts and 70% + dark chocolate.
Give your body the micronutrients it needs and don't just focus on macronutrients!

To echo the last reproduced message: Get plenty of rest between work outs!

Good luck

Al_Fernz

Hanley wrote: »

Eh not going to happen. If you're training hard and smart you will build muscle with excess calories. You might gain some fat, but getting soft and flabby wont happen overnight. Especially when you're 5'10, 65kg and single digit bodyfat.

What "others" have you seen over the years? Like who are you basing your opinions of bulking and cutting not working off?

Friends/talking to people in the gym/People I train MA with.

You people seem to have me wrong. I'm never advocated that the OP eat less or the same. And I also never said that the OP would get fat overnight. What I am saying is that the OP needs to evaluate his diet and eating plan with long term goals in mind. Eat more - yes, but do it sensibly so the muscle gained stays in the long term.

Throwing weight-gainer shakes that contain enough sugar to cause an insulin induced coma down your neck hoping that some of the muscle sticks to me seems riduculous. Its like putting petrol into your car boot and hoping some of it makes its way to the gas tank.

Al_Fernz

Emerson wrote: »

Just to go back to what Al_Fernz was suggesting to do. Glugging on oil is a sure fire way to reduce your life expectancy with no enjoyment factor.
It's just dense, nutrientless calories and gives your body no micro nutrients to repair work out damage.

Sure, consume oil with a vegetable or meat to make them more pallatable but consuming it straight is just (IMO) crazy.

Remember, in studies done on animals, increased raw (generally pure oil/sugar used on mice) calories decreased their lifespan.
Many years ago, experiments to feed farm animals and oil and sugar mix (nutrientless) ended in dismal failure with sickness/death of the animals. URL="http://books.google.com.au/books?id=8uIHAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA485&lpg=PA485&dq=%22animals+fed%22+sugar+oil&source=web&ots=HaWS0QULMf&sig=MVQupxG0NzaUI5Z_Q6oPY6D00Cw&hl=en"]link[/URL

Therefore, I would reccomend all significant calories should be nutrient and antioxidant dense (eg Avocado, Nuts, Seeds, Sweet Fruits, Meats etc) or accompany nutritionally dense foods.
My focus is on lots of Fruits, lots of Vegetables, Whole Grains, Meats. Snack on nuts and 70% + dark chocolate.
Give your body the micronutrients it needs and don't just focus on macronutrients!

To echo the last reproduced message: Get plenty of rest between work outs!

Good luck

Olive oil is not nutrientless:
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20061014/food.asp

The OP's diet is somewhat lacking in healthy fats. So IMO it would benfit him to have maybe a tablespoon or two a day.

Perhaps you mis-interpreted my use of the word "chug"? I can see how that might imply guzzling, beer-bong style drinking of the stuff. My bad - apologies. What I really meant was a tablespoon or two.

unreggd

Al_Fernz wrote: »

What I really meant was a tablespoon or two.

Thats more doable

Ill check whats in a gainer before I get it. Yes, theres loads that just have loads of sugar carbs, but Mass Fuel, which you recommended, has complex carbs

its like 97g carbs and 8g sugar per shake


Thanks again!

Hanley

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Friends/talking to people in the gym/People I train MA with.

You people seem to have me wrong. I'm never advocated that the OP eat less or the same. And I also never said that the OP would get fat overnight. What I am saying is that the OP needs to evaluate his diet and eating plan with long term goals in mind. Eat more - yes, but do it sensibly so the muscle gained stays in the long term.

Why? Where's it going?

Throwing weight-gainer shakes that contain enough sugar to cause an insulin induced coma down your neck hoping that some of the muscle sticks to me seems riduculous. Its like putting petrol into your car boot and hoping some of it makes its way to the gas tank.

Terrible analogy. Good gainers aren't packed with sugars. It's not like you're scoffing them down and hoping for muscles gains. It's obviously not going to happen unless you're doing some actual training too ya know....?

I don't think anyone's suggesting he sits at home eating chocolate and washing it down with gainers in the hopes of getting "jacked".

Al_Fernz

Hanley wrote: »

Why? Where's it going?

Catabolised during the "cutting" phase, while the OP tries to undo the damage he caused himself during the "bulking" phase. Leaving the OP back at square 1.

It's not like you're scoffing them down and hoping for muscles gains. It's obviously not going to happen unless you're doing some actual training too ya know....?

I don't think anyone's suggesting he sits at home eating chocolate and washing it down with gainers in the hopes of getting "jacked".

Did I suggest or infer this? I thought the general assumption was that the OP would be training?

Hanley

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Catabolised during the "cutting" phase, while the OP tries to undo the damage he caused himself during the "bulking" phase. Leaving the OP back at square 1.

Unless someone is COMPLETELY incompetent at dieting that is not gonna happen. If you're basing this off the people you know, and the ones you've talked to then you might want to advise them to up the protein and fat, decrease the carbs and take it easy on cardio next time.

You have to admit, your experience and anecedotel evidence here is pretty weak. It REALLY sounds like the guys you've talked to don't have a clue what they're doing when dieting, so using them as a proof for your theory isn't a great idea.

Several members of the board here have gone from relatively high bodyfat %'s to reltively low %'s, myself included, as far as I'm aware none of them have experienced any significant (or even minor) degree of lean tissue loss.

Going from 18% bodyfat to 10% over the course of a few months really isn't going to result in any muscle wasteage. Going from 10% to 6% or lower might, but that's not what's being suggested to the OP.

Did I suggest or infer this? I thought the general assumption was that the OP would be training?

It was inferred with your "pouring petrol into the boot and hoping it makes its way to the engine remark" (ie putting it in the car, but doing nothing to facilitate it reaching it's intended destination).

The equivalent with food and muscle building would be to put it in your mouth and hope it does something to magically increase your muscle mass with no more effort. However, the act of training is the facilitator. So the "petrol" isn't just being poured into the "car".

Something like... "it's the same as pouring petrol into the fuel tank of your car, but not performing any maintenance on the fuel lines and engine, but still hoping it will go" might have been better.

Al_Fernz

Hanley wrote: »

Unless someone is COMPLETELY incompetent at dieting that is not gonna happen. If you're basing this off the people you know, and the ones you've talked to then you might want to advise them to up the protein and fat, decrease the carbs and take it easy on cardio next time.

You have to admit, your experience and anecedotel evidence here is pretty weak. It REALLY sounds like the guys you've talked to don't have a clue what they're doing when dieting, so using them as a proof for your theory isn't a great idea.

Opinions on the philosophy of bulking aside. I assume that the OP doesn't have the most complete knowledge when it comes to nutrition - based on the fact that hes asking for assistance in evaluating his diet. Thats why I think its inappropriate for the OP to dismiss large fat gains that occur during bulking as acceptable and something that can easily be reversed. I'm sure you would agree that losing fat while maintaining muscle mass is not a simple process.

Several members of the board here have gone from relatively high bodyfat %'s to reltively low %'s, myself included, as far as I'm aware none of them have experienced any significant (or even minor) degree of lean tissue loss.

Going from 18% bodyfat to 10% over the course of a few months really isn't going to result in any muscle wasteage. Going from 10% to 6% or lower might, but that's not what's being suggested to the OP.

I never denied that bulking/cutting can be successful. However, thats with a caveat that the person really knows what they're doing. There's more than one way to skin a cat and it is possible to gain muscle while not simultaneously gaining fat. If you look at the OP's original goal he says he wants to gain LEAN mass. This is possible and more attainable goal for the OP in both the short and long run.

It was inferred with your "pouring petrol into the boot and hoping it makes its way to the engine remark" (ie putting it in the car, but doing nothing to facilitate it reaching it's intended destination).

The equivalent with food and muscle building would be to put it in your mouth and hope it does something to magically increase your muscle mass with no more effort. However, the act of training is the facilitator. So the "petrol" isn't just being poured into the "car".

Something like... "it's the same as pouring petrol into the fuel tank of your car, but not performing any maintenance on the fuel lines and engine, but still hoping it will go" might have been better.

The analogy that I used means that it is unnecessary to eat excessively in the hope that all the excess cals will be used to fuel muscle growth. I.e there will be a stage where the tank will be full so why try put more in? It doesn't have anything to do with training.

celestial

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Opinions on the philosophy of bulking aside. I assume that the OP doesn't have the most complete knowledge when it comes to nutrition - based on the fact that hes asking for assistance in evaluating his diet. Thats why I think its inappropriate for the OP to dismiss large fat gains that occur during bulking as acceptable and something that can easily be reversed. I'm sure you would agree that losing fat while maintaining muscle mass is not a simple process.


I never denied that bulking/cutting can be successful. However, thats with a caveat that the person really knows what they're doing. There's more than one way to skin a cat and it is possible to gain muscle while not simultaneously gaining fat. If you look at the OP's original goal he says he wants to gain LEAN mass. This is possible and more attainable goal for the OP in both the short and long run.

The analogy that I used means that it is unnecessary to eat excessively in the hope that all the excess cals will be used to fuel muscle growth. I.e there will be a stage where the tank will be full so why try put more in? It doesn't have anything to do with training.

But the point that Hanley is making, and that I made in an earlier post, is that this is almost certainly not going to happen to the OP. He sounds like a fairly skinny guy, your typical ectomorph! He could prob eat all around him and not get fat even if he WASN'T training! Given that he looks serious about training hard, this is even far less likely.

Plus I would disagree completely that losing fat while maintaining muscle is not a simple process - what is complicated about it? Watch your calorie intake, eat clean most of the time and lift weights to preserve muscle mass while on a lower calorie intake - isn't that pretty straightforward?

Hanley

celestial wrote: »

But the point that Hanley is making, and that I made in an earlier post, is that this is almost certainly not going to happen to the OP. He sounds like a fairly skinny guy, your typical ectomorph! He could prob eat all around him and not get fat even if he WASN'T training! Given that he looks serious about training hard, this is even far less likely.

Plus I would disagree completely that losing fat while maintaining muscle is not a simple process - what is complicated about it? Watch your calorie intake, eat clean most of the time and lift weights to preserve muscle mass while on a lower calorie intake - isn't that pretty straightforward?

THANK YOU!!

Al_Fernz

celestial wrote: »

But the point that Hanley is making, and that I made in an earlier post, is that this is almost certainly not going to happen to the OP.

And I would agree. If the OP is gaining lean muscle then he should give himself a pat on the back because he knows that his diet and training is spot on. However, my point is that if the OP starts visibly gaining fat he should re-evaluate his diet/training. Remember he said he wants to gain lean mass.

He could prob eat all around him and not get fat even if he WASN'T training!

Really?

Given that he looks serious about training hard, this is even far less likely.

You don't know what exactly his training routine (which I asked for).

Plus I would disagree completely that losing fat while maintaining muscle is not a simple process - what is complicated about it? Watch your calorie intake, eat clean most of the time and lift weights to preserve muscle mass while on a lower calorie intake - isn't that pretty straightforward?

You have to be fairly accurate with your training and diet for this to be successful. Either leaving the cals too high or low in the cutting phase will lead to failure. Careful planning and preparation is essential and also outside the abilities and knowledge of those without decent amounts of nutritional know-how.

Hanley

You have to be fairly accurate with your training and diet for this to be successful. Either leaving the cals too high or low in the cutting phase will lead to failure. Careful planning and preparation is essential and also outside the abilities and knowledge of those without decent amounts of nutritional know-how.

How to diet in three easy steps;
1) Maintenance kcals x .85
2) 40% protein, 30% carbs, 30% fat
3) 6 meals, 3 hours apart, split the kcals up evenly between them

That's it. That's all it takes. You can't tell me that's hard or complicated?

unreggd

My program:
(12 reps, 3 sets)

Last assessments: 5 weeks ago

Bicep Curl / Cables / 18.75kg [13.75kg @ last assessment]
Triceps / Cables / 16.25kg
Assissted Dips / Machine / 33kg
Shrugs / Barbell / 27.5kg [ 25kg @ last assessment]
Shoulder Raise / Dumbells / 8kg
Lat Raise / Dumbell / 8kg [6kg at last assessment]
Pulldown / Machine / 45Kg
Leg Press / Machine / 45Kg [40kg @ last assessment]

Torso Rotation / Machine / 50Kg [40kg @ last assessment]
Lower Abs [leg raises with straight legs] 15 Reps, 3 Sets
Back Extension / bench / 15 Reps, 3 Sets

Al_Fernz

Hanley wrote: »

How to diet in three easy steps;
1) Maintenance kcals x .85
2) 40% protein, 30% carbs, 30% fat
3) 6 meals, 3 hours apart, split the kcals up evenly between them

That's it. That's all it takes. You can't tell me that's hard or complicated?

Of course that sounds easy. However, this is assuming that the person dieting knows what their maintenace level of kcals is. There will be some degree of error for a person trying to estimate this. The deviation of the error will most likely be negatively correlated with the individual's knowledge of nutrition. Trying to estimate this is a gamble.

I propose a less risky strategy. The OP eat more clean food in a balanced fashion and continously evaluate his progress on a week by week basis. No formulas, weighing food or trying to guesstimate maintenance levels. Given the OPs is relative nutritional and lifting inexperience this IMO this is more appropriate because it allows him to develop better nutritional habits that will serve him better in the long run.

Al_Fernz

unreggd wrote: »

My program:
(12 reps, 3 sets)

Last assessments: 5 weeks ago

Bicep Curl / Cables / 18.75kg [13.75kg @ last assessment]
Triceps / Cables / 16.25kg
Assissted Dips / Machine / 33kg
Shrugs / Barbell / 27.5kg [ 25kg @ last assessment]
Shoulder Raise / Dumbells / 8kg
Lat Raise / Dumbell / 8kg [6kg at last assessment]
Pulldown / Machine / 45Kg
Leg Press / Machine / 45Kg [40kg @ last assessment]

Torso Rotation / Machine / 50Kg [40kg @ last assessment]
Lower Abs [leg raises with straight legs] 15 Reps, 3 Sets
Back Extension / bench / 15 Reps, 3 Sets

OP your program is based too heavily around machine exercises. IMO this is not the most efficient way to build lean mass.

My advise would be to get a competant instructor to show you how to perform a basic compound movements such as squats, deadlifts, bench press, rows etc. Then formulate a program (split or fullbody) that incorparates all major muscle areas. These exercises are the most efficient because they work the largest amount of muscles in your body, so you get more bang for your buck.

I would highly recommend putting some more reseach into developing a training routine and philosphy that reflects your goals. Articles like this will help you:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=674008

There is a wealth of information out there on the net - so get your research on!

Hanley

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Of course that sounds easy. However, this is assuming that the person dieting knows what their maintenace level of kcals is. There will be some degree of error for a person trying to estimate this. The deviation of the error will most likely be negatively correlated with the individual's knowledge of nutrition. Trying to estimate this is a gamble.

Bodyweight in lbs x 13

Don't try and make it sound more complicated than it is.

I propose a less risky strategy. The OP eat more clean food in a balanced fashion and continously evaluate his progress on a week by week basis. No formulas, weighing food or trying to guesstimate maintenance levels. Given the OPs is relative nutritional and lifting inexperience this IMO this is more appropriate because it allows him to develop better nutritional habits that will serve him better in the long run.

Most people I've come across lack the discipline to eat large amounts of "clean" food. Anyone that I know with a significant amount of muscle eats alot (some clean, some not) and trains damn hard. You might gain some fat doing this, you might not. If you do gain fat, which I never said WOULD happen, then I'd be confident in saying that at least you know enough kcals are available.

I don't see the relevance in your point about "nutritional habits" serving him better in the long run. Some of the people I personally know thru here and people I've trained with have the "best" eating habits, or at least those who like to talk like they have, have some of the worst bodies going.

As far as I know you're relatively new to the whole iron game? I imagine you've read alot, jsut don't fall into the trap of thinking the authors on t-nation have re-invented the wheel when it comes to putting muscle on.

Eating excess kcals and gaining some fat has and always will be the most efficient way of putting on muscle outside of the anabolic option.

Al_Fernz

Hanley wrote: »

Bodyweight in lbs x 13

Don't try and make it sound more complicated than it is.

Does that figure account for differing ages, sex, activity levels and genetics? Universally application of that figure would lead to a lot of errors. IMO the best way for the OP to calculate his BMR is to evaluate his weight and diet on a week by week basis. For example - he typically eats 2700kcals a day and his weight stays the same over a period of say a typical week or two. Then the OP can be fairly certain that is his BMR. That is why I think the OP should evaluate his progress on a week by week process and expirement to see what works for him.

Most people I've come across lack the discipline to eat large amounts of "clean" food. Anyone that I know with a significant amount of muscle eats alot (some clean, some not) and trains damn hard. You might gain some fat doing this, you might not. If you do gain fat, which I never said WOULD happen, then I'd be confident in saying that at least you know enough kcals are available.

I don't see the relevance in your point about "nutritional habits" serving him better in the long run. Some of the people I personally know thru here and people I've trained with have the "best" eating habits, or at least those who like to talk like they have, have some of the worst bodies going.

As far as I know you're relatively new to the whole iron game? I imagine you've read alot, jsut don't fall into the trap of thinking the authors on t-nation have re-invented the wheel when it comes to putting muscle on.

Eating excess kcals and gaining some fat has and always will be the most efficient way of putting on muscle outside of the anabolic option.

Yeah man - I'm fairly green when it comes to lifting and I admit I still have a lot to learn. I never inferred that my diet is perfect or that I have an amazing physique. I have started to read and research a lot (I'm not busy in work) - nevertheless I'm also putting effort in the gym and starting to see results. I was 72kgs last september and I'm now at 76kgs with no visible change in bodyfat (not great I know but I think its fairly decent progress) - I'm not someone that doesn't practice what they preach and I'm not simply regurgitating information I've read on T-nation etc.

The OP's goal is lean mass - this can be achieved without large significant gains in bodyfat. I'm just trying to give the OP some information on what I feel has been sucessful for me and steer him away from methods I know did not work for others who I feel at a comparable level to the OP.

You are talking about going through a cutting process and hoping to achieve a x3 BW squat at the end of it. I don't think you apply the same principles to the OP. I think his more immediate priority should be to learn the basics of nutrition and training first.