Do most men secretly want a virgin???

SarahSassy

Just spotted this post in PI and found it very interesting...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055275728

I guess a lot of the reactions from men were that they would be delighted to think they were the first one to sleep with a 24 year old virgin... Mainly because no one else had been there before....

What do you think of this? Do a lot of men still want a virgin????

Just throwing it out there...

tribulus

God no.

the GALL

and why not?

monkeyfudge

Sounds like a lot of responsibility.. and if I know men like I think I do then they sure don't like responsibility...

Sherifu

Yes.

Ghost Train

I don't thinks the reactions on the other thread are that men want a virgin, just that it shows a level of trust and that the girl is comfortable with you and is telling you its sort of a big step for her to take in the relationship

stovelid

If it was the right person, I honestly wouldn't care either way.

Have to admit though: I find the whole guys-loving-virgins thing a bit weird.

tribulus

the GALL wrote: »

and why not?

Moi?

I'd much rather someone who can be relaxed and confident and who knows what they want without it having to be a big special occasion and built up to something it's not. If there's virgins like that then great but I doubt it.

Edit +1 to the above post but in general, no.

Abi

I wouldn't have thought so. Not nowadays anyway. I'd be inclined to believe that it used to matter more when the country was into following the catholic church in a big way.

I think that it would be for novelty / insecurity than religous reasons if a guy specifically was looking for a virgin nowadays like..

IMO of course. :pac:

Black Swan

Never met a lad that was the same. They were unique individuals. So I would suspect that their secret needs will vary too...

2 stroke

No. If a guy does, its often their own insecurity/fear of being judged.

orestes

I was with a girl for about six or nine months a few years ago. She was a virgin and I wasn't. She told me she wanted to lose her virginity to me but I couldn't do it cos I did really care about her but I didn't love her enough to be the guy she would remember for being her first. It wouldn't have been fair on her, it would have been like taking something really important to someone that would have meant nowhere near as much to me, if that makes any sense.

I didn't tell her that, I came up with some other excuses cos that would have sounded horrible to say and would have come across the wrong way completely and she would have bloody brained me!

challengemaster

If we told, it wouldn't be a secret :pac:

Buzz Buzz

Ya it'd be great, clean slate an all.. but as long as she's incredibly confident and somehow 'magically' knows all the dirty little tricks!! I'll keep dream'in I think..

Wibbs

No, but as a generalisation, I think it plugs into guys wanting a woman not to be as sexual as them(or at least how they like to think of themselves). Certainly more than they care to admit. Sure they want you to be a demon in bed, they just don't want to know how you got that way for the most part. They're much more twitchy than women in general about learning how many you've slept with before.

Men will add to the figure, while women will tend to subtract, both as a way to keep or increase their value.

Partially cultural, mostly biology. Men throughout history could never be sure if their kid is theirs, until quite recently. They had to take it on trust(or control). To perpetuate your dna is the basic purpose of this whole stuff. You see it with our close relatives. Most males of any primate species don't want to expend resources on kids that are not theirs unless it's for the common good. Women know their kid is theirs as they carried it and gave birth. There's no such thing as a maternity test now is there?

So to maximise the chance of the woman you're with having your child and not someone else's, men will look for women who are less likely to stray. Virgins, demure women etc.

Now "lower" value males will take more of a risk on a woman of "higher" value than them but with a "past".

This goes as far as some studies showing that when a couple have been apart for a while (regardless of whether he's *ahem* relieved himself in the interim) he will release more sperm at their next encounter to increase his chances of any progeny being his. In case of competition basically.
The more he is around the woman the less he'll release.

In our early hunter gatherer societies control of women's sexuality because of this was fairly high, depending on resources available. the higher the resource, the lesser the issue. When we became farmers the added issue of inheritance after death of resources increased this. The vast majority of cultures tend to value female virtue over male. There are exceptions but they're in the minority. EG There are cultures that value women who have had kids, but the husband is dead or divorced, as a guarantee against infertility.

I've read studies in the past some of which showed that female infidelity in marriage was more likely to be grounds for divorce than male for pretty much the same reason.

It's like the oul double standard. Men can be revered for being sexual with many partners, women are called sluts. Plugs into the old biology bit too. Men who have many partners are high value males, so women may offset the risk of him wandering to get close to that. Women who have many partners are not always high value beyond the obvious and when they are, the guy interested can't be sure if she gets pregnant that the child is his.

It's way more subtle than that of course and women have much to lose as well in cases of infidelity too. There's never an excuse.

Contraception has of course made this mostly redundant, but the little reptile brain in the back of the head is still in play to a greater or lesser extent.

I will say this that some men I've known who appeared very "right on" and open, actually admitted in unguarded moments that who they saw as less "promiscuous" women were more appealing as long term partners.

I would say that a large proportion of men would if being truly honest prefer a woman as a long term future who knows what she's doing but he would also prefer not to know how many men helped her in her knowledge.

Of course this varies with age, sexual experience of the male, confidence of the male etc Individuals basically.

Generalisation? Yes. Generally true? I reckon.

Personally? I would rather be someone's last than someone's first.

Jaysus Im looooong winded......:D

Cunny-Funt

good post.

I hate all that hunter gatherer psych crap.


If you are crap in bed, perverted or have a monstrous cock in one way or another, you'd prefer a woman who doesn't know any better.

Nevyn

Moonbaby wrote: »

I hate all that hunter gatherer psych crap.


If you are crap in bed, perverted or have a monstrous cock in one way or another, you'd prefer a woman who doesn't know any better.

That maybe Moonbaby but gone are the days when you could drop by the local poor house pick up a 5 year old girl, hand her over to the nuns and then come back and pick up when she's 13/14 and marry her.

GrumPy

I disagree completely. Sure I dont want to be with a 24 year old that's had 50 partners, but deffo not a virgin. Because then questions get asked. Is she a virgin by choice? Has she got a medical condition? These type of questions would not be the type I'd want floating around my head if I started seeing a new girl.

That isn't just a random opinion either, based on past experiences.

seamus

I would imagine for many men there's a certain fantasy aspect of it. The sexual experience that you gain in your twenties and thirties is perhaps seen as something that could have been great in your teens when everyone seemed to be up for a fumble behind the bushes.

To that end, being with a virgin could have some sort of appeal in terms of reliving your teens and feeling like you're actually getting to go all the way with that girl you felt up behind the bike shed but who wouldn't let you put your hand down her pants.

I would imagine there's a certain "dominance" aspect to it too, i.e. "Me teacher, you student" - the fantasy of showing a virgin girl her first time and completely blowing her mind.

As pointed out by MAJD in the other thread, sex is something that both people have to practice, or at the very least the less experienced one needs to be comfortable and open to direction. You probably *could* have great fun with a virgin, but you'll probably end up doing all the work.

Wibbs

Moonbaby wrote:

I hate all that hunter gatherer psych crap.

Hate it or not it does have a bearing. Clearly it's more subtle than all that, but the fact is we've all got a 60,000 + year old brain, brilliantly and ironically adapting to a modern society of it's own making. It's still in there though. Many of the ills of our modern life are a reaction to that ongoing process.

If you are crap in bed, perverted or have a monstrous cock in one way or another, you'd prefer a woman who doesn't know any better.

Certainly a less confident male may think like that. What about the rest who don't have a "monstrous cock" or are crap in bed? What about the big grey average in the middle? The attitude is there with regard to female promiscuity is there more often than not. Much of the reason brings us back to our evolutionary psychology.

Wibbs

Thaedydal wrote: »

That maybe Moonbaby but gone are the days when you could drop by the local poor house pick up a 5 year old girl, hand her over to the nuns and then come back and pick up when she's 13/14 and marry her.

Thankfully. The reasoning behind it, perverted and incredibly unjust as it was(and still is in some parts of the world) was on a similar vein. Just another facade on the back of it all. If it didn't have that connection, that would never have happened in the first place.

Irish GrumPy wrote:

I disagree completely. Sure I dont want to be with a 24 year old that's had 50 partners, but deffo not a virgin.

Yep both ends of the spectrum are not the best.

seamus wrote:

I would imagine for many men there's a certain fantasy aspect of it. The sexual experience that you gain in your twenties and thirties is perhaps seen as something that could have been great in your teens when everyone seemed to be up for a fumble behind the bushes.

To that end, being with a virgin could have some sort of appeal in terms of reliving your teens and feeling like you're actually getting to go all the way with that girl you felt up behind the bike shed but who wouldn't let you put your hand down her pants.

I would imagine there's a certain "dominance" aspect to it too, i.e. "Me teacher, you student" - the fantasy of showing a virgin girl her first time and completely blowing her mind.

Good points all.

Nevyn

seamus wrote: »

To that end, being with a virgin could have some sort of appeal in terms of reliving your teens and feeling like you're actually getting to go all the way with that girl you felt up behind the bike shed but who wouldn't let you put your hand down her pants.

Who wants to relive the hell that was their teens, I mean really.

seamus wrote: »

I would imagine there's a certain "dominance" aspect to it too, i.e. "Me teacher, you student" - the fantasy of showing a virgin girl her first time and completely blowing her mind.

If you lucky and tbh virgin woman is more apt esp if she over 21.
IF you are lucky she will be open minded, well read and only lacking in the physical experience, if not the you are looking at someone who had unresolved issues.

The idea of the 'magical' first time esp for a person of the female gender makes my laugh.

seamus wrote: »

As pointed out by MAJD in the other thread, sex is something that both people have to practice, or at the very least the less experienced one needs to be comfortable and open to direction. You probably *could* have great fun with a virgin, but you'll probably end up doing all the work.

Yep and then they imprint on you like a duckling, so many peoples patterned responses can be traced back to their first partner esp if they were older and
took their time to train/condition/break in.

Also they have a hard time separating lust and infatuation from other feelings and assume those feelings/reaction equal true love.

seamus

Thaedydal wrote: »

Who wants to relive the hell that was their teens, I mean really.

Knowing what I know now? I think it'd be a frickin great laugh.

The idea of the 'magical' first time esp for a person of the female gender makes my laugh.

This is probably why it's doomed to remain "fantasy" for men. The experience of just getting to stick it in something that's
1. Human
2. Female
3. Living
means that the first time is usually (emotionally) fantastic for men. So we have difficulty seeing why it's not the same for women.

Wibbs

Thaedydal wrote: »

Who wants to relive the hell that was their teens, I mean really.

Actually I quite enjoyed my teens. Plus if I knew then what I know now, I would be agreeing with seamus on this one.

If you lucky and tbh virgin woman is more apt esp if she over 21.
IF you are lucky she will be open minded, well read and only lacking in the physical experience, if not the you are looking at someone who had unresolved issues.

Agreed.

The idea of the 'magical' first time esp for a person of the female gender makes my laugh.

Agreed as well. Of course usually after it happens the magic is a hell of a lot less.

Yep and then they imprint on you like a duckling, so many peoples patterned responses can be traced back to their first partner esp if they were older and
took their time to train/condition/break in.

True. Been there.

seamus wrote:

This is probably why it's doomed to remain "fantasy" for men. The experience of just getting to stick it in something that's
1. Human
2. Female
3. Living
means that the first time is usually (emotionally) fantastic for men. So we have difficulty seeing why it's not the same for women.

You reckon? More emotionally fantastic for men in general? I think for most men it's a relief that they get it out of the way. Of course if it's first love territory then all bets are off. I think both sides attach a lot of imprtance to it anyway. It's so much down to the individual though.

seamus

Wibbs wrote: »

You reckon? More emotionally fantastic for men in general?

From what I've seen, I think so. Teenage boys spend so much time chasing it, that the emotional relief of "getting it out of the way" as you put it, heightens the experience.
Though, we just need a man who had a distinctly unimpressive first time to disprove my theory

Nevyn

Hey there are some women who feel that way too.

stovelid

Thaedydal wrote: »

The idea of the 'magical' first time esp for a person of the female gender makes my laugh.
.

Obviously I'm not a woman, but it makes me laugh too. Along with the notion of men seeing any random woman's first time as a gift, or something special and magical. Obviously, it is if the woman is special, but the idea that the loss of virginity is somehow magical itself always seems like a possessive conceit of the part of the man who is doing the "teaching".

seamus wrote: »

Though, we just need a man who had a distinctly unimpressive first time to disprove my theory

Although the relief was definitely there, I'm probably one of the few blokes who will admit that I found the whole thing pretty nerve wracking.

topper75

A virgin would be wasted on me. She'd have nothing to compare me to.

John Mason

I have a friend who is looking for a 23 year old virgin, someone really quiet with not a lot of confidene so he mould her in exactly what he wants - a sex slave if you will :eek:

Nevyn

Yep, the fun of sexual imprinting.

Star Lord

Wibbs wrote: »

Men will add to the figure, while women will tend to subtract, both as a way to keep or increase their value.

Generalisation? Yes. Generally true? I reckon.

Only those that are mentally immature. I have never lied about the number, and see no need to. I actually wish it was lower!
(It is a low number, but some of them I wish had never happened!)

Reku

It is something society really needs to change that a female should be chaste, whereas a male should be experienced & anyone who does not live according to this (i.e. female who enjoys sex or male virgin) should be viewed as a lesser specimen.

Quite simply if a man was seeking a woman as a virgin why would he bother hanging around after the deed. As such is it really worth caring that such men even exist.

Considering that men like to feel that they are "well equipped" and a regular slag used against women who do enjoy their men is usually to imply an oversized/stretched vagina, perhaps this idiocy (in both aspects) also feeds the issue somewhat.

Sex tends to be an awkward thing for lads too, the constant concern of how we're squaring up to the partner's expectations and prior experiences is there for men too, as such there will be the element of if she were a virgin at least we can cross how we compare to former partners off the list, but on the otherhand it's nice when a girl knows what she likes and is willing to give us guidance as a little positive feedback, e.g.:
"oh that's nice, go a little slower"


As long as you don't try make it into some sort of competition it shouldn't matter how many partners you've each had, afterall just as each individual is unique so is the sex between two such unique individuals going to be unique so the histories of each is just that; history.

Wibbs

Thaedydal wrote: »

Yep, the fun of sexual imprinting.

Yep "fun" until she goes all individual and dumps his sorry arse.:D

farohar wrote:

It is something society really needs to change that a female should be chaste, whereas a male should be experienced & anyone who does not live according to this (i.e. female who enjoys sex or male virgin) should be viewed as a lesser specimen.

I agree. I reckon we're lurching in the direction of that too and failing a backlash(like the whole virgin thing in the US, which is gloriously hypocritical anyway) we'll get there.

Quite simply if a man was seeking a woman as a virgin why would he bother hanging around after the deed.

Basically because he'll feel he'll have her all too himself for a myriad of reasons. Nutty though.

Considering that men like to feel that they are "well equipped" and a regular slag used against women who do enjoy their men is usually to imply an oversized/stretched vagina, perhaps this idiocy (in both aspects) also feeds the issue somewhat.

Oh I agree it does. What's behind it all is the interesting bit for me though. They're symptoms more than causes.

As long as you don't try make it into some sort of competition it shouldn't matter how many partners you've each had, afterall just as each individual is unique so is the sex between two such unique individuals going to be unique so the histories of each is just that; history.

Very true in an ideal world. The thing is some of those unique experiences are better than others. We've all had crap sex sooner or later. Hell I'm quite sure I've been both a good sex and bad sex experience for women I've been with.:D I've been with women where the sex was bloody fantastic and I've been with some where it was next to useless(as much as sex can be anyway). The second thing is for me at least, that in most cases good or bad it didn't reflect my opinion of them as people. I've had objectively crapish sex with women I really cared about and great sex with women I wasn't pushed on at all. The good on both sides is obviously the aim, but given a stark choice I would prefer the former TBH.

GrumPy

irishbird wrote: »

I have a friend who is looking for a 23 year old virgin, someone really quiet with not a lot of confidene so he mould her in exactly what he wants - a sex slave if you will :eek:

I know someone :pac:

stovelid

stovelid wrote: »

Obviously I'm not a woman, but it makes me laugh too. Along with the notion of men seeing any random woman's first time as a gift, or something special and magical.

Also makes me laugh, but then plenty of women seem to feel that way as well

I think I'd have been more in the "get it over with" camp...

personally, and this may well be a (horribly broad) generalisation, I'd look at a guy who really wanted a virgin as being insecure, or having some kind of issues with how he looks at women/sex in general
either way, no thanks
though i suppose the imprinting is a different story

rediguana

Virgin or tramp, it's all good.

MIN2511

Funny how yesterday i was discussing this with a friend, i thought the other way(i.e. men liked more experienced women) was embarassed saying the amount considering most girls have had more at my age...

btw what is the average amount of partners... hmm forget that...

ChewChew

Wibbs. .

You a very clever boy. I like your thinking!!!

I had always presumed a guy would prefere to be a girls first for the purity that lies within. . obviously I'm very wrong. lols.

But being a gurl. . . I'd HATE to be with a virgin boy. oh no no no.

I wonder are there any virgin boys in the 20's out there?? I know the average age of kids having sex is getting lower. I think you hear more of girls who are virgins and in their 20's than you do of boys. Girls have no problem discussing this kind of thing with their girl friends, but its not a topical conversation amongst boys and their boy friends!!!

Sangre

having sex with a virgin cures aids.

tribulus

Sangre wrote: »

having sex with a virgin cures aids.

Everyone in Africa knows that, still hasn't caught on here though

Dudess

ChewChew wrote: »

But being a gurl. . . I'd HATE to be with a virgin boy. oh no no no.

I don't know if I'd mind it. If I'm his first, then I can teach him how to do things exactly as I'd like them done...

I wonder are there any virgin boys in the 20's out there??

Of course there are. And older. And they're not all mammy's boys.

ChewChew

Dudess wrote: »

I don't know if I'd mind it. If I'm his first, then I can teach him how to do things exactly as I'd like them done...

Of course there are. And older. And they're not all mammy's boys.

Well i suppose there is the teacher/student factor. but when your in the heat of the moment, do you really want to have to 'explain' to the boy what to do. nope I'm sorry, but I couldnt do it.

EamonnKeane

Sangre wrote: »

having sex with a virgin cures aids.

having a virgin with aids cures sex

saoranach

ChewChew wrote: »

I wonder are there any virgin boys in the 20's out there?? I know the average age of kids having sex is getting lower. I think you hear more of girls who are virgins and in their 20's than you do of boys. Girls have no problem discussing this kind of thing with their girl friends, but its not a topical conversation amongst boys and their boy friends!!!

I was in my twenties, it was a pretty big deal for me, first proper girlfriend and relationship. It was a special time and Im glad that it was with someone that mattered. We went our separate ways a few years ago but still have very fond memories of her.

Hellm0

I love virgin's personally, it used to be my aim in life to find and de-virginize as many as possible until I was broken in and tamed by my OH.

GrumPy

ChewChew wrote: »

Wibbs. .


but its not a topical conversation amongst boys and their boy friends!!!

:rolleyes: So your of both sexes?

generalisation EXPLOSION

Nevyn

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep "fun" until she goes all individual and dumps his sorry arse.:D

Unless he gets her to marry him and by the time that is happening there are already kids.

Wibbs wrote: »

I agree. I reckon we're lurching in the direction of that too and failing a backlash(like the whole virgin thing in the US, which is gloriously hypocritical anyway) we'll get there.

The purity balls have to be the biggest load of balls tbh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purity_Ball

Hellm0

Thaedydal wrote: »

Unless he gets her to marry him and by the time that is happening there are already kids.



The purity balls have to be the biggest load of balls tbh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purity_Ball

That whole scene rubs me the wrong way, not just due to it's overt religiousness(which I find offensive) but also due to the extremely weird involvement of the father(or "high priest" as they like to be called it seems) in his daughters sexual life. Call me old fashioned if you will but I think raising a child to be a good person and instilling them with sound judgment making abilities usually does a better job of instilling wise sexual practises than this.

cuckoo

Thaedydal wrote: »

The purity balls have to be the biggest load of balls tbh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purity_Ball

Wow, um, different....and kinda creepy. Anyone else note that wiki had 'covert incest' listed as one of the "related links"?

Then again, at my debs we had the first dance with our fathers (because it's traditional), hopeful suitors ask the father's permission to propose to his darling daughter (why? because it's traditional of course...) and then the fathers hand over their daughters at the top of the aisle (those darn traditions again). Irish society has father/daughter = owner/possession elements too.

ChewChew

Irish GrumPy wrote: »

:rolleyes: So your of both sexes?

generalisation EXPLOSION

Nope nope, Sorry. . I could have phrased that ALOT better. . lol. . I actually had this very discussion with a male friend on sunday, and he was telling me that blokes just dont go there with that kind of discussion. . they may playfully brag over a pint, but thats about it. (apparantly);)