How many bayonets can you identify?

enfield

Here are of some of the bayonets in my collection. I usually display them on this board at Military shows. How many can you identify?
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/?action=view&current=Bayonetsfordisplay.jpg

Regards.
Tom.

aynon

wish i could, damn you photobucket!

SpitfireIV

I wanna play......in college though and cant view photobucket

enfield

Have a go.

SpitfireIV

Right, lets see....

Well theres a P'07 in there anyway (aussie I presume from the brown leather scabbard?). Theres also a P'13 bayonet to fit the P14/17 rifle, this one looks like its American, so for the P17.

A few Martini Henry socket bayonets?

The 'relic' one looks like an Artillery sword bayonet.

A couple of WW1 German 'Bluchers' one with a saw back.

A bayonet oddly shaped like a practice No36 Mills Bomb :pac:

A curvy emm....P'56? Martini Henry bayonet?

The other curved one looks French (judging by the grip)

The Germans ones I dont really know, there seems to be lots of them.

enfield

There is only one Martini Henry bayonet in there, sorry about the rare grenade bayonet, Artillery Sawback is correct. Well done on the p56 I thought you might be put off by the yataghan blade. A chasseopt is the brass handled one. Now then the ones that confused you are the German ones. There is one butcher bayonet 98/05 the other two are different, besides the scabbards what is the differences? Pick out the Czech, Turk, 2 French, USA, Portuguese, Chinese, Swedish, Japanese and 4 other German bayonets in there. We will leave the socket bayonets alone as you do not have the MRD, Socket to Slot measurment or markings.
'P14/17 rifle, this one looks like its American, so for the P17'. Nope, there aint one of them in there.
Now then the most expensive one on the board is.......which one?
Regards.
Tom.

SpitfireIV

Ah, is that one which I thought was a P'13 a Japanese bayonet for the Ariska (spelling?) I only spotted the hooked quillion now.

enfield

Yes the Arisaka is there but the P13 did not have a quillon.
Tom.

kowloon

I'll give you 50 quid for the lot, I'd be doing you a favour

Rashers

Don't know about the bayonets (never used any of those in the photo) but I can tell you all you need to know about the Mills 36 Hand or Rifle grenade.... weight... angle of descent.... danger area... fuse types etc.

Degsy

Rashers wrote: »

Don't know about the bayonets (never used any of those in the photo) but I can tell you all you need to know about the Mills 36 Hand or Rifle grenade.... weight... angle of descent.... danger area... fuse types etc.

Where would one get a good copy..to use as a paperwight for example?

enfield

I have often seen the Yankee pineapple grenades and British smooth surfaced ones for sale in camping shops around the country and should be available at the Curragh show from the Cork Dealers. They are empty of course and are cheap enough. I never priced them as it did not interest me at the time. You will always find them for sale at militaria fairs especailly those in the North Star Hotel in Dublin. There is one coming up soon, see the events page. The No 36 grenade aka the Mills bomb is more expensive and I have rarely seen them for sale even at fairs. I seen empty relics dug from the battlefields go, complete (without the explosive) with striker, pin, lever, (no spring) and 1916 dated brass base plug for 80 euros. More modern (after ww2) versions went for 60 and included the spring, striker, plug, pin, lever and inner tubes. They even came in their own plastic container and were drilled through for practice. I have seen resin copies of the mills bomb for sale and they are/were really very good. Painted black with the red stripe round the centre. They were sold by www.tommyspackfillers.com who seem to have stopped trading or are uncontactable.

Tom.

SpitfireIV

I got a No5 MkI Mills Bomb off e-bay UK a couple of years back. It was excavated from France, cost me the bones then of about €50 I think. Sent via the post. At the time I just bought it, seller shipped 'worldwide' so I assumed in my naiiveity that it was alright.

When I got it I drilled a number of holes in it, just so that it can be seen to be rendered useless.

danpatjoe

Is that a Swedish 1896 in the brown frog at the bottom (2 over from the bakelite gripped K98)?

enfield

"Is that a Swedish 1896 in the brown frog at the bottom (2 over from the bakelite gripped K98)?" Yes indeed it sure is, well done. A lot of these surfaced in the middle 1980's in Dublin Flea markets and went for about 25 pounds at that time. Before that they were quite rare. Nowadays they are one of the most common bayonets you will see for sale at the Military fairs.
Regards.
Tom.

arnhem44

enfield wrote: »

Here are of some of the bayonets in my collection. I usually display them on this board at Military shows. How many can you identify?
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/?action=view&current=Bayonetsfordisplay.jpg

Regards.
Tom.

Hi Tom,just looking at your bayonet collection,i'd love to have something like that,I've just noticed the Mills grenade,since your into reinactment I was wondering if you knew what are the laws regarding ownership for these???,lovely display by the way.

enfield

Law says you cannot have them but they are more tolerant if they are used in re-enactment and generally turn a blind eye. They can still take them from you anytime they like. If they are empty they are just a piece of cast iron but try arguing that while the guard has the lubricated rubber glove on.......
Regards.
Tom.

arnhem44

enfield wrote: »

Law says you cannot have them but they are more tolerant if they are used in re-enactment and generally turn a blind eye. They can still take them from you anytime they like. If they are empty they are just a piece of cast iron but try arguing that while the guard has the lubricated rubber glove on.......
Regards.
Tom.

Thanks Tom for the info,been wanting to get my hands on a ww2 example but no point if theres to much hassle plus the lubricated rubber glove doesn't sound very appealing:eek:

kowloon

arnhem44 wrote: »

lubricated rubber glove doesn't sound very appealing:eek:

Not sure, if done gently....... :pac:

arnhem44

kowloon wrote: »

Not sure, if done gently....... :pac:

:eek::eek::eek::eek:no,no,no me don't think so

kowloon

So, since this is a bayonet thread, where would be a good Non-eBay place to get a bayonet for a mkII Martini?

arnhem44: Don't knock it 'till you've tried it

arnhem44

kowloon wrote: »

So, since this is a bayonet thread, where would be a good Non-eBay place to get a bayonet for a mkII Martini?

arnhem44: Don't knock it 'till you've tried it

nudge nudge wink wink,i still don't think so:D
Sometimes you might find something on Gunbroker.com,theres always a selection of German daggers and variuos bayonets for sale there as well as other militaria,of course most don't post outside the U.S unless you ask,there is a few Martini bayonets for sale on it at the moment,differing prices and different models,was the mark ll the 1892 version??,would know nothing about these myself

Grizzly 45

Spotted a Chinese Type 56 cruciform bayonet in there. A US M1917 type thingy.A Mauser K98,and thats me done.:eek:

enfield

Well done Grizzly you were the first to mention the SKS bayonet.
Regards.
Tom

arnhem44

enfield wrote: »

Have a go.

Hi Tom,I was wondering has one of the butcher bayonets had the sawback ground off??

enfield

Yes indeed, well spotted!! It was done in 1917 when the majority of them had it removed.
Regards.
Tom.

arnhem44

enfield wrote: »

Have a go.

Ok i've looked at this over and over so i'll give it a go,to start with i have no idea about the socket bayonets,i guess one of them is off an old enfield,these are purely guesses for alot of them so here goes,one chassepot,three butcher bayonets one plain,one sawback and one one sawback removed,one p1907,one arisaka,early or pre war,two k98's one bakelite and one timber,one swedish mauser(second bottom),one type 56(chinese screw driver),one ww1 erzate??(bottom right),next to that an austrian mauser,on the bottom it looks like some type of american bayonet or maybe a spanish bolo bayonet,one ww1 german sawback??(second in on the bottom right),i think the third one in on the right hand top is portugese(dont know the model) and the third one in on the top right is either german pre war or before that,maybe an 1898 or else its greek re-modelled by the germans and lastly the one under the k98 bakelite may be a chilean mauser bayonet made by the germans??

enfield

The ww1 Ersatz was a tricky one well done others that caused a bother were the socket bayonets. You did not have access to the Muzzel ring diameter or muzzle to socket measurment nor blade types so here they are. There were two Martini henry sM1876 socket bayonets and scabbards one of the was bushed for the RAJ. The other socket bayonet was the Martini Enfield M1895. The long German one was the M1898a/A and marked to a front line regiment. The rarest and most expensive one is the KS1898 sawback, its like the k98 bayonet but in sawback, rarer and more expensive than the 1898/05 sawbacks. There is an M35 Turkish mauser bayonet in there are its one of the cheapest bayonets you can buy. Another is the VZ24 Czechslovakian bayonet with the reversed blade. They are cheap but very nice and very well made. The yataghan bayonet beside the Chasseopt is the Portuguese Kropatschek another cheap bayonet. Do you know whay they used yataghan bayonet (wavey blade), it became popular because you could rod the musket without removing the bayonet. The French bayonet is the Mannlicher Berthier. The spanish bolo bayonet (FR3 and FR8)is possibly the cheapest and crappyiest bayonet on the market.
Now you have it. Well done all who entered the test you have done very well considering you had to work on just a picture.

Regards.
Tom.

arnhem44

whens the next game starting tom??:D

enfield

Hos about one one on ammo and grenades sometime this week? It will not be as difficult as the Bayonet game.
Regards.
Tom.

arnhem44

enfield wrote: »

Hos about one one on ammo and grenades sometime this week? It will not be as difficult as the Bayonet game.
Regards.
Tom.

Hi Tom,sounds good,look forward to seeing the thread:)

enfield

Three pictures for yis.
One picture of a selection of inert ammo;
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/?action=view&current=Ammoid002.jpg


Two pictures of grenades.

http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/?action=view&current=Ammoid003.jpg

http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/?action=view&current=Ammoid004.jpg

Three of the date from ww1. Can you tell me which countries used them?
Enjoy.
Tom.

arnhem44

one is a german disc grenade me thinks

arnhem44

as a guess i would have to say a british mills grenade,as for the other one beside it maybe belgian? and i haven't a clue about the other one and the only round thats familiar to me is the black round which i think is a blank

enfield

You are correct one of them is the German ww1 discus handgrenade. You are also correct about the mills bomb (ww1 British hand grenade) this particular one was dug from the battlefields of the Somme. It is empty of course but still has the plunger, pin and 1916 dated base plug. The one beside it is a more modern one used by the Irish Army in the 1970s. I threw a live one of these in Kilpeddar during my training, an interesting experience and the longest 4 seconds of my life. Some of the rounds are fired blanks, can you name any of them?
Tom.

arnhem44

enfield wrote: »

You are correct one of them is the German ww1 discus handgrenade. You are also correct about the mills bomb (ww1 British hand grenade) this particular one was dug from the battlefields of the Somme. It is empty of course but still has the plunger, pin and 1916 dated base plug. The one beside it is a more modern one used by the Irish Army in the 1970s. I threw a live one of these in Kilpeddar during my training, an interesting experience and the longest 4 seconds of my life. Some of the rounds are fired blanks, can you name any of them?
Tom.

you've got me on the rounds Tom and surprised me with the Irish connection,I would of never guessed that one,must of been excellent throwing one of them,I remember when I was on honeymoon in Hawaii I could of went to a gun range there and a fired a range of weapons such as an AK47,M16,a 357 Magnum and so on and to this day I'm kicking myself I didn't:(

enfield

I certainly would have given the weapons a good going over. I have fired the Carl Gustav 84mm Recoilless Rifle, Gustav SMG, Browning Automatic Pistol. .303 No 4 Lee enfield, 7.62 FN Rifle, .303 Bren LMG and the 7.62 GPMG MMG. I fired the energa Rifle Grenade and threw the M3 36 mills grenade and enjoyed every second of it except the 4 seconds with the grenade (lol). I would have liked to shoot the .455 Webley, 1911 Colt, m1 carbine, Garand and the BAR and maybe the steyr and will do if the opportunity ever crops up that I can do it legally. Maybe when I am on holidays out foreign.
If the chance ever crops up for you to use any weapons, legally of course, do it or you will always regret it.
Regarding the ammo, lets see if there are any others who might be able to id some of them.
Regards.
Tom.

Rashers

enfield wrote: »

I fired the energa Rifle Grenade

Did you like the recoil?

and threw the M3 36 mills grenade and enjoyed every second of it except the 4 seconds with the grenade

Watching that little wisp of smoke before getting your head down ages you a bit.... not to mention the knowledge that the heat of your fingers can blow them off when inserting the igniter set. :eek:

Grizzly 45

enfield wrote: »

Three pictures for yis.
One picture of a selection of inert ammo;
http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/?action=view&current=Ammoid002.jpg


Good selection there.
A 9mm blank/drill A 7.62/308 plastic /drill round.[have one]
A .303 Rim & .303 Bren ?if such exists.
A .455 Webly Manstopper,next to a Mauser 7.62
A 7.62 NATO/308 next to a 7.62X39 AK
A Blank [8 mm??]somthing next to the 7.62 NATO
Two 5.56 NATO/223 Rounds silver one a drill round? plus a 5.56 plastic blank[?]
Top line 357 magnum next to a 45 long Colt[?] next to a 38 Special.
Dunno what the other two are.

enfield

Rashers, you waited for the smoke from the fuze? You Rambo type you!! I was on the ground before the grenade was. I fired the energa in Gormanstwon and used the back end of a trench to put the rifle butt against when I let her off. I could understand why the instructors would not allow us to use lanyards unstead of our finger though.

Hello Grizzly. You did very well just from a picture.
Here are your results;
A 9mm blank/drill, Yes
A 7.62/308 plastic /drill round.[have one], Yes.

A .303 Rim, Yes & .303 Bren ?No.

A .455 Webly Manstopper, yes but not a man stopper (head is ogival shaped not flat or hollowpoint).
next to a Mauser 7.62, No.

A 7.62 NATO/308, Yes
next to a 7.62X39 AK, No.

A Blank [8 mm??], Bang on.
somthing next to the 7.62 NATO, Yes.

Two 5.56 NATO/223 Rounds silver one a drill round?, Yes both correct.
plus a 5.56 plastic blank[?], not a 5.56.

Top line 357 magnum, Yes
next to a 45 long Colt[?], No.
next to a 38 Special yes with a semi wadcutter head.
Dunno what the other two are.

What are the top line, second from the left, 4th from the left, 5th From the left,8th from the left, and last on the left.
Bottom line, 3rd from the left, and last on the right?

Grizzly 45

Take a guess that the blank next to the 5.56 NATO drill rnd is a .30 cal M1 carbine blank? And that the eight top round is a Russian Mosin Nagant 7.8 somthing or other.

enfield

An m1 carbine blank is correct!!! The Mosin Nagnt 7.62 round had a rimmed case, No 8 on the top does not. Its just a tiny wee bit shorter than the Japanese Arisaka round. A clue; its used by the same Country as the m1 carbine.
Regards.
Tom.

enfield

The difficult ones are the 30-30 Winchester and the 270. I thought the 30-06 would be a doddle but there you go.
Rgerads.
Tom.

kowloon

I hope you have all those licensed and the bullets, primers and cases stored in different safes in a house with a monitored alarm and ten foot razorwire fence.

enfield

Its like you are reading my mind......
Regards.
Tom