response rate from job applications

shantor

Sending a lot of CVs out recently and I have noticed the response rate is very low.. for example 1 / 10 might acknowlege my application, 1 / 10 might call me for an interview and the other 8 dont respond at all

.. point being it use to be good manners to even send a rejection now companies dont seem to bother even doing that

does anyone else find that or is it just moi??

Yep, had the same experience. I think it's rude but I guess they must receive hundreds of CV's from job websites, etc. I must have sent out over 50 CV's and got about 7 interviews. I got a job in the end though once I dedicated myself to finding one. Persistance is key, and don't mind the ones who don't bother getting back to you!

shantor

yep could be the sheer numbers of applications.. in which case you would want a real purty cv

wonder if peeps lash photos or make CV in photoshop.. thinking of doing something to make it stand out a little

AARRRGH

Are you applying via Jobs.ie? They screen all CVs and reject the ones which don't (in the sales persons opinion) suit the employer.

I have it from a good source that they reject up to 40% of all CVs.

shantor

dublindude wrote: »

Are you applying via Jobs.ie? They screen all CVs and reject the ones which don't (in the sales persons opinion) suit the employer.

I have it from a good source that they reject up to 40% of all CVs.

yes I do use them, funny you say that.. what criteria do they reject on?

My theory on jobs.ie was that all your CVs where kept online and when you sent in a job application potential employers could do a search on your name and then check for missmatches of information on your CV against prvious CVs.. I mean lets be honest we all tinker around with the CVs a bit

over two years I realised that I have not landed 1 single interview through jobs.ie and it was the website I used most heavily.. it only dawned on me after the download fraud

I also have an issue with the fact that they keep your CVs without consent on their servers and then sell access to employers to view those CVs.. although I cant substantiate that because they wont respond to my email enquires

will never use that site again

AARRRGH

shantor wrote: »

yes I do use them, funny you say that.. what criteria do they reject on?

Poor cover letter, poor CV, lacking experience, wrong country... that kind of thing.

As far as I know, "rejected" CVs are still stored in the employers account as rejected CVs, but they aren't e-mailed to him.

shantor wrote: »

My theory on jobs.ie was that all your CVs where kept online and when you sent in a job application potential employers could do a search on your name and then check for missmatches of information on your CV against prvious CVs.. I mean lets be honest we all tinker around with the CVs a bit

I don't think this happens.

shantor wrote: »

over two years I realised that I have not landed 1 single interview through jobs.ie and it was the website I used most heavily.. it only dawned on me after the download fraud

Is it possible your cover letter and CV are poor? Is it possible you are applying for jobs you have no chance of getting?

I want to be fair on Jobs.ie, so the problem could be you (no offence.)

shantor wrote: »

I also have an issue with the fact that they keep your CVs without consent on their servers and then sell access to employers to view those CVs.. although I cant substantiate that because they wont respond to my email enquires

I know they used to not sell access to their CV database. Now that they're owned by Irishjobs.ie, this may have changed. There is big money is CV databases.

shantor wrote: »

will never use that site again

This is what I'd do if I were you: continue using Jobs.ie, but after applying for each job, follow it up with a phone call to the employer a few days later to see if they got your CV and to show you're keen.

Xcellor

When I was a graduate a few years ago I found it very difficult to get any repsonses. I learnt that I was aiming too high. I put my expectations down and found a job.

Your CV has a lot to do with it. I look at my CV from when I had just graduated and I am like "OMG I can't believe I wrote such tripe". Now I recruit for my department and very often if the CV is too long, too general I won't bother following up with candidate. (The HR Dept gives the not interested). Generic CVs = Generic (boring) individual... Need to put some flavour and personality into it. Difficult to get it just right...

I have found recruitment agencies are TERRIBLE. They raise your expectations, make you think you've got a real shot and then ignore you. They fail in most cases to communicate outcomes until you hound them. I had to send 5 follow up emails in between the space of 2 months to be told that they filled the job....

X

shantor

ya agree

but the point was (regardless of how good or bad CV is) if they dont want to interview you they simply do not respond or acknowledge your application

just seems a bit rude, we use to always get some kind of response whether good or bad

seems to be a policy of dont bother responding to applications unless its good news

AARRRGH

I know I'm always saying HR people are lazy, but they are.

They don't really have anything to do all day, yet many of them, as you've experienced, couldn't be arsed sending a simple "Sorry, we're not going to hire you."

It's basic manners IMO.

stepbar

It's no wonder responce rates are low. Any CV I've seen (either from friends or ones I take in) has been quite poor. Just today I had a guy looking to hand in a CV to me. Hands me one page. Now only for I'm nice I would have fcuked it in the bin. Half the page was taken up with personal info like age, address etc. And the other half was scant to say the least. In all it told me nothing about the person in front of me. I had to sent him away to get it sorted. I don't understand why people can't make the effort on their CV, when it's often the only tool people have to sell themselves.

AARRRGH

I agree.

I've looked at quite a few software tester CVs. Wouldn't you think, as their job is to find defects, that they would have a perfect CV? Nope. Frequently I see spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes, and things like that.

There is no excuse to not have a perfect cover letter and a perfect CV.

board om

i can never understand that myself. how the fcuk does some make a spelling mistake or gramatical error on their CV? i mean, it is your introduction to a potential employer. it is the deciding factor in whether the company will even speak to you, let alone interview and hire you. and people dont even take the time to do a simple spell check. it only take a few seconds to do but people still dont do it. when applying for jobs i used to agonize over the format of my CV, the font type and sizes,making sure every paragraph is lined up correctly, etc. maybe its just me but i always assumed everyone did that. i cant understand why anyone would send it off to a HR department without first checking it. if they are going to be that stupid they might as well do the CV in text speak using abreviations, its just as unprofessional.

shantor

stepbar wrote: »

It's no wonder responce rates are low. Any CV I've seen (either from friends or ones I take in) has been quite poor. Just today I had a guy looking to hand in a CV to me. Hands me one page. Now only for I'm nice I would have fcuked it in the bin. Half the page was taken up with personal info like age, address etc. And the other half was scant to say the least. In all it told me nothing about the person in front of me. I had to sent him away to get it sorted. I don't understand why people can't make the effort on their CV, when it's often the only tool people have to sell themselves.

yea but did you inform him his application would go no further?? He is probably sitting at home right now with his fingers crossed while his CV is in the bin so to speak

thats my point I would prefer to be put out of my misery rather than wondering what the hell is going on with my app

Xcellor

If someone who wants me to read their CV can't even have the decency to use spell check why does he/she even deserve a response? For anyone who is not getting results, throw your CV in the bin and start again. If you don't get anywhere after that there are people that can help you with your CV.

shantor

Xcellor wrote: »

If someone who wants me to read their CV can't even have the decency to use spell check why does he/she even deserve a response? For anyone who is not getting results, throw your CV in the bin and start again. If you don't get anywhere after that there are people that can help you with your CV.

I assume you are of an age that you do not know spellcheck did not exist 10 years ago and hence some people cant use it... some other people dont have access to a laptop due to economic reasons and therefore arent offay with all the little features of MS Word

I also wouldnt expect you to understand that some very smart people cant spell and some other very smart people hate computers & dont know or care how to use them

but if it is an efficient method of screening candidates for the roles you fill (maybe clerical / admin?) power to you...

stepbar

shantor wrote: »

yea but did you inform him his application would go no further?? He is probably sitting at home right now with his fingers crossed while his CV is in the bin so to speak

thats my point I would prefer to be put out of my misery rather than wondering what the hell is going on with my app

Not my job to do that. That's why we have a HR dept. I told him to go home and do up a more comprehensive CV.

shantor wrote: »

I assume you are of an age that you do not know spellcheck did not exist 10 years ago and hence some people cant use it... some other people dont have access to a laptop due to economic reasons and therefore arent offay with all the little features of MS Word

I also wouldnt expect you to understand that some very smart people cant spell and some other very smart people hate computers & dont know or care how to use them

but if it is an efficient method of screening candidates for the roles you fill (maybe clerical / admin?) power to you...

What??? There's no excuse for not being able to spell if you're "smart". I'm with Xcellor on this one. If I was reviewing CV's and the candidate clearly couldn't spell correctly, then I'd throw the CV in the bin.

board om

shantor wrote: »

I assume you are of an age that you do not know spellcheck did not exist 10 years ago and hence some people cant use it...

i am sure they have updated their CV in the last 10 years and i would assume when updating it they would have transferred it over to MS Word and that they arent still using a type writer.

shantor wrote: »

some other people dont have access to a laptop due to economic reasons and therefore arent offay with all the little features of MS Word

again when creating their CV i am quite sure trhey would be using MS Word to begin with so it is only one extra thing they have to do when writing the CV.

besides, you are expected to know how to use Word, Excel, and Outlook for even the most basic office jobs nowadays. it is a minimum requirement for pretty much any job where a computer is involved. when they are giving you an induction training ffor a new job, they dont cover things like this becuase you are excepted to know them.

Xcellor

shantor wrote: »

I assume you are of an age that you do not know spellcheck did not exist 10 years ago and hence some people cant use it... some other people dont have access to a laptop due to economic reasons and therefore arent offay with all the little features of MS Word

I also wouldnt expect you to understand that some very smart people cant spell and some other very smart people hate computers & dont know or care how to use them

but if it is an efficient method of screening candidates for the roles you fill (maybe clerical / admin?) power to you...

In my day we used a dictionary. I believe they are widely available for those who don't have MS Word. Getting a friend to proof read your CV afterwards is also another way to catch grammar/spelling mistakes.

There is no excuse for poor spelling. It shows a lack of commitment. In such a competitive job market you really can't afford to slip up on this. It can seem trivial to score someone down on this but if I have 10 CVs to get through in 30 minutes then its an effective filter.

X

leeroybrown

Exactly. I've never seen a CV that wasn't word processed. I had a spell checked word processed proof read CV 15 years ago. I've seen a hell of a lot of dreadful word processed CV's though and I'll have just glossed over them and moved onto the next CV. A massive segment of the modern workplace is dependent on computer literacy and communication skills. If someone can't give you a decent CV then they're already at a disadvantage.

nesf

shantor wrote: »

I assume you are of an age that you do not know spellcheck did not exist 10 years ago and hence some people cant use it... some other people dont have access to a laptop due to economic reasons and therefore arent offay with all the little features of MS Word

Indeed, that's why we have dictionaries and why people learn how to spell in the first place. If anything things are worse in the younger generation who have gotten too used to spell check (I know my spelling has gotten a lot worse because of the laziness you can get away with with a spell checker).

A CV is a formal document, similar to a formal business letter, stuff like spelling errors really shouldn't be there. There is no excuse for it. I'd go a step further and say that people's punctuation and grammar should be perfect too but that might be asking a bit too much considering the crap way it's taught in our school system.

kmick

My VC is porfect. My spelling is excusite.

Sleepy

dublindude wrote: »

I know I'm always saying HR people are lazy, but they are.

They don't really have anything to do all day, yet many of them, as you've experienced, couldn't be arsed sending a simple "Sorry, we're not going to hire you."

It's basic manners IMO.

It ain't necessarily laziness. From my time in college doing a commerce degree it became apparent that if you couldn't hack it in accounting, economics or business systems, you went down either the HR or Marketing route.

Maybe it was just NUI, Galway but judging from vast majority of the professionals I've encountered in either of these disciplines, it's a fairly accurate generalization.

nesf

kmick wrote: »

My VC is porfect. My spelling is excusite.

Mine two.

shantor

nesf wrote: »

Indeed, that's why we have dictionaries and why people learn how to spell in the first place. If anything things are worse in the younger generation who have gotten too used to spell check (I know my spelling has gotten a lot worse because of the laziness you can get away with with a spell checker).

A CV is a formal document, similar to a formal business letter, stuff like spelling errors really shouldn't be there. There is no excuse for it. I'd go a step further and say that people's punctuation and grammar should be perfect too but that might be asking a bit too much considering the crap way it's taught in our school system.

so if you are hiring a construction worker, driver, chaffeur, porter, machine operator, electrician, lumberjack, painter etc etc you would refuse them based on spelling mistakes or grammar?

I think you mean as per other posters in certain professions it can be a good way to screen people

I would hire anyone into any position other than maybe marketing, journalism or clerical if they had the skills & could deliver... a lot of talented & smart, capable people cant spell, have dyslexia or dont use computers

shantor

Xcellor wrote: »

Your CV has a lot to do with it. I look at my CV from when I had just graduated and I am like "OMG I can't believe I wrote such tripe". Now I recruit for my department and very often if the CV is too long, too general I won't bother following up with candidate. (The HR Dept gives the not interested). Generic CVs = Generic (boring) individual... Need to put some flavour and personality into it. Difficult to get it just right...

X

if you want someone ordinary pick someone that can spell... if you want someone extra-ordinary http://www.dyslexia-test.com/famous.html

leeroybrown

shantor wrote: »

if you want someone ordinary pick someone that can spell... if you want someone extra-ordinary http://www.dyslexia-test.com/famous.html

I was wondering when this one would come up. I've known some smart people with dyslexia over the years but all of them took the condition seriously and would have ensured that their CV, cover letter, etc were perfect.

nesf

shantor wrote: »

so if you are hiring a construction worker, driver, chaffeur, porter, machine operator, electrician, lumberjack, painter etc etc you would refuse them based on spelling mistakes or grammar?

You wouldn't throw away a guy's CV for spelling mistakes if you're looking for a taxi driver, you would, however; if presented with two comparable candidates one with poor spelling and grammar and one with perfect spelling and grammar differentiate between them. Poor grammar/spelling can indicate lack of schooling (which you can see from the education part of the CV and at least explains it) but it can also indicate carelessness in an individual (which is a potential problem in some jobs).

For some jobs careless spelling/grammar is an automatic throwaway but obviously this doesn't apply to all jobs. A person's CV says more about them than just the words that are on it and employers do notice things like poor spelling and grammar. It won't cost a potential welder his interview necessarily but it does speak volumes about the person.

shantor

nesf wrote: »

You wouldn't throw away a guy's CV for spelling mistakes if you're looking for a taxi driver, you would, however; if presented with two comparable candidates one with poor spelling and grammar and one with perfect spelling and grammar differentiate between them. Poor grammar/spelling can indicate lack of schooling (which you can see from the education part of the CV and at least explains it) but it can also indicate carelessness in an individual (which is a potential problem in some jobs).

For some jobs careless spelling/grammar is an automatic throwaway but obviously this doesn't apply to all jobs. A person's CV says more about them than just the words that are on it and employers do notice things like poor spelling and grammar. It won't cost a potential welder his interview necessarily but it does speak volumes about the person.

agree... when its a clerical job, its important to remember its only a good screening method for some jobs.. not all

btw... bad spelling does not suggest carelessness, it suggests the person cant spell and doesnt realise they have misspelt a word

shantor

leeroybrown wrote: »

I was wondering when this one would come up. I've known some smart people with dyslexia over the years but all of them took the condition seriously and would have ensured that their CV, cover letter, etc were perfect.

are they applying for clerical jobs?

do they disclose that they are dyslexic on the the CV?

... I would be pretty annoyed if I hired a guy into a role that required ability to spell and then found out they had the big D!!

nesf

shantor wrote: »

if you want someone ordinary pick someone that can spell... if you want someone extra-ordinary http://www.dyslexia-test.com/famous.html

Dyslexia isn't an excuse for bad spelling in formal documents though. A person with dyslexia knows they make mistakes, they should for formal stuff where there is time to do this, get someone else to check over their stuff because there will be mistakes that they can't spot in it (depends on your type of dyslexia). In informal written communication, like a quick email response to a colleague, you can't expect a dyslexics spelling to be perfect but with a formal document where there is plenty of time to do it up beforehand then it is reasonable to expect them to make the effort and do it right.

I know a fair few intelligent people with dyslexia who take the extra steps to get around their condition (ie getting someone else to proof read or similar). It makes things more difficult for them but they don't have any choice in the matter really.

nesf

shantor wrote: »

agree... when its a clerical job, its important to remember its only a good screening method for some jobs.. not all

I wasn't suggesting using it as a screening method (ie throw out all CV's that misspell Curriculum or similar). I was only saying that even when hiring for manual jobs a person's spelling will still stand out.

shantor wrote: »

btw... bad spelling does not suggest carelessness, it suggests the person cant spell and doesnt realise they have misspelt a word

See, I'd draw a very big distinction here between formal documents like CVs or business letters to a client and informal documents like a quick note left for someone. It is perhaps because I've been exposed to a lot of the more "office" side of employment but I think it's still a valid distinction. For me, spelling mistakes in formal stuff indicates carelessness. You should double check such things to make sure they are right.

shantor

nesf wrote: »

Dyslexia isn't an excuse for bad spelling in formal documents though. A person with dyslexia knows they make mistakes, they should for formal stuff where there is time to do this, get someone else to check over their stuff because there will be mistakes that they can't spot in it (depends on your type of dyslexia). In informal written communication, like a quick email response to a colleague, you can't expect a dyslexics spelling to be perfect but with a formal document where there is plenty of time to do it up beforehand then it is reasonable to expect them to make the effort and do it right.

I know a fair few intelligent people with dyslexia who take the extra steps to get around their condition (ie getting someone else to proof read or similar). It makes things more difficult for them but they don't have any choice in the matter really.

wouldnt it be disingenuis for a dyslexic person to let on they can spell correctly in the scenario where the role required ability to spell??

nesf

shantor wrote: »

wouldnt it be disingenuis for a dyslexic person to let on they can spell correctly in the scenario where the role required ability to spell??

No, it should be mentioned in the cover letter that they have dyslexia. That there are no mistakes in the cover letter or the CV just shows the person takes things seriously and works around their condition when able. A person who says they have dyslexia and has a CV full of mistakes is a person who doesn't do anything to get around their issue or tackle the problems it causes.

leeroybrown

shantor wrote: »

are they applying for clerical jobs?

do they disclose that they are dyslexic on the the CV?

... I would be pretty annoyed if I hired a guy into a role that required ability to spell and then found out they had the big D!!

It's obvious that the person needs to disclose their condition to a potential employer but they should do it in a professional fashion.

You seem to be deliberately missing the point - I and other posters couldn't care less if someone has some difficulties spelling but I do take issue with someone who expects me to put time and effort into dealing with their CV when they haven't taken the time to produce an adequate submission. If someone doesn't take the time to prove that they can produce a decent document and communicate clearly it'll count against them.

shantor

nesf wrote: »

No, it should be mentioned in the cover letter that they have dyslexia. That there are no mistakes in the cover letter or the CV just shows the person takes things seriously and works around their condition when able. A person who says they have dyslexia and has a CV full of mistakes is a person who doesn't do anything to get around their issue or tackle the problems it causes.

ya but again a guy will get hired with spelling mistakes in his CV depending on the industry & where he can prove an ability to get whatever job it is, done, and quicker or better than the next guy

so where a dyslexic is concerned, it doesnt matter if they have a spelling mistake in their CV depending on the desired occupation and if they are going for a job that requires spelling, they are wasting everyones time

shantor

leeroybrown wrote: »

You seem to be deliberately missing the point - I and other posters couldn't care less if someone has some difficulties spelling but I do take issue with someone who expects me to put time and effort into dealing with their CV when they haven't taken the time to produce an adequate submission. If someone doesn't take the time to prove that they can produce a decent document and communicate clearly it'll count against them.

thats funny & ironic.. the subject is way of topic from OP & you accuse me of missing the point

cheers :P

nesf

shantor wrote: »

ya but again a guy will get hired with spelling mistakes in his CV depending on the industry & where he can prove an ability to get whatever job it is, done, and quicker or better than the next guy

so where a dyslexic is concerned, it doesnt matter if they have a spelling mistake in their CV depending on the desired occupation and if they are going for a job that requires spelling, they are wasting everyones time

I disagree. A dyslexic who makes the effort to do their CV properly is a person who makes the effort to do a job right. This is an admirable trait in a person in any profession (ok, maybe not the civil service ). My point isn't that you won't get hired if there are spelling mistakes on your CV but that it shows and is a positive thing when a person takes a bit more care and does the job right and hands up a well polished CV. It stands out even more when you work in an industry where this isn't the norm. I know people who regularly look over CV's hiring for manual positions and they always note when someone has made more of an effort to get things right. They won't hire an inexperienced guy over an experienced guy because of spelling but they do prefer to hire people who are diligent about spelling and similar because it tends (not always, just tends) to indicate a person who takes tasks more seriously.

nesf

shantor wrote: »

thats funny & ironic.. the subject is way of topic from OP & you accuse me of missing the point

Would you like me to split the posts off into a separate thread?

stepbar

nesf wrote: »

I disagree. A dyslexic who makes the effort to do their CV properly is a person who makes the effort to do a job right. This is an admirable trait in a person in any profession (ok, maybe not the civil service ). My point isn't that you won't get hired if there are spelling mistakes on your CV but that it shows and is a positive thing when a person takes a bit more care and does the job right and hands up a well polished CV. It stands out even more when you work in an industry where this isn't the norm. I know people who regularly look over CV's hiring for manual positions and they always note when someone has made more of an effort to get things right. They won't hire an inexperienced guy over an experienced guy because of spelling but they do prefer to hire people who are diligent about spelling and similar because it tends (not always, just tends) to indicate a person who takes tasks more seriously.

+1

flash harry

funny just saw this - was reviewing CV's for journalist role today and you would not believe them. Spelling, grammatical, punctuation, you name it the mistakes were there.

NOW back to OP - I find that a very disheartening waste of time but believe me I will waste 10 mins tomorrow replying to all explaining why they have been unsuccessful......will these be the future posters on boards saying "my experience was perfect"???

shantor

nesf wrote: »

Would you like me to split the posts off into a separate thread?

my response there was to a different poster

another off shoot of this arguement is a lot of jobs are awarded not on the basis of CVs so portfolios and physical examples of work count for more in such scenarios...

nesf

shantor wrote: »

my response there was to a different poster

I was just being polite and offering you the option.

shantor wrote: »

another off shoot of this arguement is a lot of jobs are awarded not on the basis of CVs so portfolios and physical examples of work count for more in such scenarios...

Indeed, but those jobs are the exception not the rule.