Are sunbeds worse than going out in the sun?

Cupcakes

Are sunbeds worse than tanning in the natural sun in relation to skin cancer & aging skin etc? Do sunbeds give you vitamin d?

katiemac

Any doctor will warn you not to use sunbeds. They are very dangerous to use.

Das Kitty

They're much stronger than the sun. Which is why you only stay in them for 4 minutes starting off.

Apart from that the effects are exactly the same as from the sun. They age your skin, increase the risk of skin cancer, tan/burn you, dry your skin and give you vitamin D just like the sun does.

They are no more or less dangerous than the real sun for the same level of tan.

Here is the World Health Organization Fact Sheet about sun beds.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs287/en/

StormWarrior

Sunbeds are better for you than the sun, because you can calculate exactly how many uv rays you're getting and what percentage the UVA to UVB ratio is. You can never be sure what you're getting from the sun or how strong it is on any given day. There is also evidence to show that the chemicals in sunblock cause more skin cancer than the UV exposure itself.

StormWarrior

katiemac wrote: »

Any doctor will warn you not to use sunbeds. They are very dangerous to use.

My friend's doctor recommended she should try using sunbeds to clear up her psoriasis when all else failed. It worked.

Stark

There's a difference between using something for medical purposes on the advice of a doctor and using it when it's not needed. In your friend's case, it would have been a case of weighing up the risks of cancer/aged skin etc. with the benefits of clearing up the psoriasis. Someone without psoriasis has to ask themselves whether the benefits of a tan outweigh the risks.

Stark

Stark wrote: »

There's a difference between using something for medical purposes on the advice of a doctor and using it when it's not needed. In your friend's case, it would have been a case of weighing up the risks of cancer/aged skin etc. with the benefits of clearing up the psoriasis. Someone without psoriasis has to ask themselves whether the benefits of a tan outweigh the risks.

Plus if he sent her to a salon instead of a proper clinic where they could regulate her UV intake......he wasn't a very good doctor.
It is only UVB that has a positive effect on psorasis.

Glowing

StormWarrior wrote: »

Sunbeds are better for you than the sun, because you can calculate exactly how many uv rays you're getting and what percentage the UVA to UVB ratio is. You can never be sure what you're getting from the sun or how strong it is on any given day. There is also evidence to show that the chemicals in sunblock cause more skin cancer than the UV exposure itself.

Saying sunbeds are better for you would infer that they are in some way good for you - which is totally untrue.

Perhaps they are less damaging .... but in fact I don't think they are.

You'd be mad to use one with all the evidence that we have now ....

Das Kitty

Glowing wrote: »

You'd be mad to use one with all the evidence that we have now ....

You'd also be mad to smoke, drink alcohol, or eat at McDonalds. Can anyone claim to have done none of these or rule out all of them for the future?

Didn't think so.

Stark

Most people smoke because they got addicted to cigarettes when they were teenagers. If you were a non-smoker, would you take up smoking in adulthood, knowing what you do of the risks? McDonalds and alcohol are fine in moderation, but we know that they **** you up if you consume them on a regular basis. Sunbeds are probably okay to use occasionally, but I do think you'd be mad to use them regularly.

Das Kitty

Our government is useless.

Sunbeds should be regulated properly, but at the moment, any old eejit can have one and let anyone over the age of 16 on it by just getting them to sign a consent form.

Whilst I totally agree that it's nuts to be "maintaining a tan" with a sunbed, I don't think it's the big bad people make out. Whilst there are risks involved they're not as significant as some would have you believe. Some people think that you go on a sunbed and you automatically get cancer, or at least this is the way they're portraying it.

WHO say that most cases of skin cancer are from the actual sun, however they don't have a measure on how many people use sunbeds per population and how the two would compare with weighting. That's something I'd like to know.

BTW I know 3 people who've started smoking as adults, so it's not unheard of.

lubie76

Sunbeds are more dangerous for an individual than the sun. The following are just some reasons according to the World Health Organisation, 2008

• High intensity of UV output - Some machines have the capacity to emit very high levels of UV, many times stronger than the midday summer sun in most countries. In a largely unregulated industry where training of staff is not mandatory, this increases the health risks considerably.

• The size of the skin area exposed - Modern ‘clam-type’ sunbeds and canopies can expose more skin area to UV than outdoor situations, therefore increasing the health risk. Here young people are more sensitive to UV-induced damage from this "all-over" tanning.

People think because they are in beauty salons with ‘trained professionals’ sunbeds are safe to use and this is untrue because it is a largely unregulated industry. It gives them a false sence of secutity and very few bother to apply protection creams as in the normal sun as they think they are not at risk. I worked in a salon myself and was never shown anything except how to set them for a time period. I have also seen the damage they cause age wise - wrinkles, dark patches and thats not even taking into account the carcinogenic properties.

Take my advice and stay away.

Pythia

I have never used one myself but surely they are no more dangerous than the sun. You just need to be informed of how long to stay on them or maybe use sun protection while tanning.
I would imagine for example 4 mins on a sun bed would not be as bad as sunbathing in Spain for a few hours.

I would presume it's all down to the knowledge of the person using it and the horror stories we hear of are people taking it too far.

I have never used one as I said so I can't say this definite.

Das Kitty

The same level of tan on the same area of skin has the same damaging effect whether it's coming from the sun or from a sunbed.

kizzyr

StormWarrior wrote: »

Sunbeds are better for you than the sun, because you can calculate exactly how many uv rays you're getting and what percentage the UVA to UVB ratio is. You can never be sure what you're getting from the sun or how strong it is on any given day. There is also evidence to show that the chemicals in sunblock cause more skin cancer than the UV exposure itself.

Sunbeds are dangerous and should be banned IMHO. They are in no way good for you and any dermatologist worth their salt will tell you to stay well away from them.
It is impossible to avoid the sun completely and is a natural source of Vit D. If you avoid sunbathing, use an SPF in your moisturizer and as a sunscreen you will limit the daily damage caused to your skin. Going out of your way to expose your skin by using a sunbed is irresponsible in the extreme.
The evidence that says sunblock causes more cancers than it prevents..............I've never heard of this, not once.

Pythia

kizzyr wrote: »

Sunbeds are dangerous and should be banned IMHO. They are in no way good for you and any dermatologist worth their salt will tell you to stay well away from them.
It is impossible to avoid the sun completely and is a natural source of Vit D. If you avoid sunbathing, use an SPF in your moisturizer and as a sunscreen you will limit the daily damage caused to your skin. Going out of your way to expose your skin by using a sunbed is irresponsible in the extreme.
The evidence that says sunblock causes more cancers than it prevents..............I've never heard of this, not once.

I would imagine she's takling about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunscreen_controversy

). However the most lethal form of skin cancer - malignant melanoma - has been shown by several epidemiological studies to be amplified by the use of sunscreen

Stark

I remember reading a report before that said if sunscreen wasn't reapplied regularly (every 2 hours) then the chemicals would break down and would actually have an amplification effect. So their advice was apply it every 2 hours or not at all.

Das Kitty

I also would like to point out that you need very little sun to get your required amount of vitimin D. You get enough on your exposed hands walking from the supermarket to the car on a cloudy day. You don't need to sunbathe or tan to get enough.

You can get it from your food but the sun it the most efficient way.

The report you're talking about above has got me wondering, what about makeup with SPF in it? You could hardly be reapplying your foundation every 2 hours...

hmmm

kizzyr

Pythia wrote: »

I would imagine she's takling about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunscreen_controversy

Yes....and wikipedia is never wrong.

Das Kitty

kizzyr wrote: »

Yes....and wikipedia is never wrong.

Very rare for a full article to be fabricated though. Plus, I doubt all the references on the page are made up.

I think the real uncertainty is not whether the study took place and what the results were but the usual, it could be disproved again tomorrow.

Nevyn

kizzyr wrote: »

Sunbeds are dangerous and should be banned IMHO. They are in no way good for you and any dermatologist worth their salt will tell you to stay well away from them.

Oh really ? then you clearly don't know about UV treatments for skin disorders and for S.A.D.

kizzyr wrote: »

It is impossible to avoid the sun completely and is a natural source of Vit D. If you avoid sunbathing, use an SPF in your moisturizer and as a sunscreen you will limit the daily damage caused to your skin.

Yes you can it's called being mostly nocturnal and using a parasol.

kizzyr wrote: »

Going out of your way to expose your skin by using a sunbed is irresponsible in the extreme.

Even when under dr's orders to do so ?

Das Kitty

Thaedydal wrote: »

Yes you can it's called being mostly nocturnal and using a parasol.

LOL, you've painted the image of a goth chick with a parasol walking around at night in my head (I think the goth bit came from your avatar).



But you're right, you can avoid the sun.

idunnoutellme

good topic to discuss.
sunbeds clearly are safer than the sun as you know what you are being exposed to and for how long, whereas with the sun and the depleted ozone layer, you dont know what rays you are exposed to and dont really notice for how long alot of the time.
also its a fact that sunshine is good for you! everything on earth is alive because of it...in fact in my opinion there are much more cases or skin cancer because people are underexposed to the sun and then go on a 2 week sun holiday completely unprepared, causing their skin damage.
and also of course skin cancer is a cause of abuse of sunbeds, just like lung cancer is cause of smokin, and liver cancer can be caused my alcohol abuse etc etc.
if you do everything in moderation than there's really nothing to worry about in my opinion.
and to recap : sunshine is good for you! in moderation. therefore sunbed good especially during say winter when you dont see alot of sun...in moderation

StormWarrior

At the end of the day, everyone has their own opinion and it's up to you to make your choice. I do find it incredibly annoying however, when people say that sunbeds should be banned. Are we going to ban everything that may possibly cause harm? If someone wants to use them it's no one else's business. Studies have supposedly shown that even wearing an underwired bra can cause breast cancer. Should we ban underwired bras?

Das Kitty

Deodorants as well, something to do with the metals in them.

As long as people know the risks I have no problem with them doing anything (legal!).

I do think tanning salons should be government regulated though.

tinkerbell

God I would never go on a sunbed, they are so dangerous. It's full on exposure to it which is not good for you. If I go out in the sun I wear a very high factor and if I do get slightly tanned it is only that I'm not bleach white any more, rather creamy white! Anyway you need some bit of sun for Vitamin D. Just don't stay out in the sun wearing cooking oil like!

Holsten

I was listening to Spin and they were talking about this today.

According to the Irish Cancer Society they cause terrible damage and are too be totally avoided.

Something like a 50% chance of getting some form of skin cancer if you use them under the age of 30.

chump

Holsten wrote: »

I was listening to Spin and they were talking about this today.

According to the Irish Cancer Society they cause terrible damage and are too be totally avoided.

Something like a 50% chance of getting some form of skin cancer if you use them under the age of 30.

I heard it was something like 87%. I wonder who misheard?

Das Kitty

News says it's a 75% increased risk, not 75% of people (or 30 or 85)

A very interesting article here:
http://www.sunherald.com/160/story/481141.html

So sunblock only protects against UVB and it's UVA they're linking moreso to cancer? :eek: They kept that quiet.

You know that explains why I always seemed to tan through my sunblock, UVB burns you and UVA tans you. They both cause the same damage though.

Stark

That star rating system they're talking about is already on sunblock. The number (SPF 20 or whatever) is the UVB protection and the star rating tells you how good the UVA protection is. You need to use sunblock that's high on both scales.

Also, sunblock doesn't complete block UV. SPF 20 means you get 1/20th of the normal dose of UV when you're wearing it. So if you sit outside in the sun long enough, you'll eventually tan/burn even when you're wearing sunblock.

Das Kitty

Cool, thanks.

Didn't know about the star rating, I'll have a look for one.

kizzyr

Thaedydal wrote: »

Oh really ? then you clearly don't know about UV treatments for skin disorders and for S.A.D.



Yes you can it's called being mostly nocturnal and using a parasol.



Even when under dr's orders to do so ?

Well actually I do. I have psoriasis, have had for over 10 years now. At one stage it was getting worse and worse and nothing the dermatologist prescribed was making any difference. In the end I was hospitalised for 6 week to undergo a series of tar baths (lovely) and UV treatments to treat the affected skin.
The difference between this and going to your local salon and using a sun bed is that it was a) under strict medical superivision and b) only the skin affected with the psoriasis was exposed to the UV rays. All of the unaffected skin was covered up. That is what using UV rays under doctor's orders is like I've been there and got the t-shirt.
When I was finishing up with the dermatologist (when my skin eventually got to a managable stage) I asked about sunbeds and he was horrified at the idea of anyone using them.

kizzyr

StormWarrior wrote: »

At the end of the day, everyone has their own opinion and it's up to you to make your choice. I do find it incredibly annoying however, when people say that sunbeds should be banned. Are we going to ban everything that may possibly cause harm? If someone wants to use them it's no one else's business. Studies have supposedly shown that even wearing an underwired bra can cause breast cancer. Should we ban underwired bras?

Some studies aren't worth the paper they're written on. As for banning sunbeds, I firmly support that stand point. There is no doubt that sunbeds do cause harm, its not a possibility of causing harm, they do cause it.
However if people are willing to be that foolhardy with their health by using subeds, smoking, drinking to excess, taking drugs etec that is their choice and their business. It stops being only their business however, when they discover a melanoma, tumour in their lungs, realise they have cancer of the lips and tongue and need a team of medical professionals to help them deal with their illness.

mattyboy20

The only people who complain about sunbeds are people who:
(a) are too embarrassed and don't have the balls to use them;
(b) too pale and are physically not able to tan
(c) busybodies with too much time on their hands!

Use a sunbed if you want-very relaxing:)

Das Kitty

mattyboy20 wrote: »

The only people who complain about sunbeds are people who:
(a) are too embarrassed and don't have the balls to use them;
(b) too pale and are physically not able to tan
(c) busybodies with too much time on their hands!

Use a sunbed if you want-very relaxing:)

:pac:

Here we go again!

kizzyr

mattyboy20 wrote: »

The only people who complain about sunbeds are people who:
(a) are too embarrassed and don't have the balls to use them;
(b) too pale and are physically not able to tan
(c) busybodies with too much time on their hands!

Use a sunbed if you want-very relaxing:)

Yes, because it takes such bravery to use a sunbed:rolleyes:

corkfun

Das Kitty wrote: »

They're much stronger than the sun. Which is why you only stay in them for 4 minutes starting off.

Apart from that the effects are exactly the same as from the sun. They age your skin, increase the risk of skin cancer, tan/burn you, dry your skin and give you vitamin D just like the sun does.

They are no more or less dangerous than the real sun for the same level of tan.

Here is the World Health Organization Fact Sheet about sun beds.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs287/en/

i completely disagree...sun beds are much worse then the sun,

also that fact sheet is from 2005. love to see a more recent /up-to-date one

corkfun

mattyboy20 wrote: »

The only people who complain about sunbeds are people who:
(a) are too embarrassed and don't have the balls to use them;
(b) too pale and are physically not able to tan
(c) busybodies with too much time on their hands!

Use a sunbed if you want-very relaxing:)

(A) so one needs balls to get on a sun bed...wow how thing have changed.
(B) do you have a name for that medical condition
(C) so one has to have enough time to complain but not enough time to lie under a sun bed.


after read the above post, something else came to mind, if you are going to use one. cover you head. cant be good for the brain.

Das Kitty

corkfun wrote: »

i completely disagree...sun beds are much worse then the sun,

also that fact sheet is from 2005. love to see a more recent /up-to-date one

You disagree with the World Health Organisation?

It's from the WHO, if there was a more recent one it'd be up there.

Love to know what facts you're going on...

corkfun

Das Kitty wrote: »

You disagree with the World Health Organisation?

It's from the WHO, if there was a more recent one it'd be up there.

Love to know what facts you're going on...

for the record, yes i do disagree with that paper.

but you knock yourself out, with your permatan.
you have been given the advice.

Das Kitty

LOL, still no facts to back up your claim.

You're making a big assumption that I'm tanning there as well... :rolleyes:

corkfun

Das Kitty wrote: »

LOL, still no facts to back up your claim.

Your right, I cant find one piece of text highlighting the dangers of sunbeds and skin cancer on the whole Internet.

as i said, you have been told about the dangers. its up to you what you do with that information.

c.ya.