Sterilize the proles!

beans

Well not quite all of them, but certainly those who insist on raising multiple kids on state benefits.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=543688&in_page_id=1770&ito=newsnow

article wrote:

Calls for Tory councillor to resign after he suggests parents on benefits should be sterilised after one child

A Tory councillor has claimed that there should be compulsory sterilisation for parents on benefits.


He has removed the original comments from his website blog and said he was sorry if he caused any problems.
But Mr Ward, a 58-year- old bachelor, has since published a defiant claim that he was "exposing easily demonstrable truths".
He added that "a pushy cold caller at the door got me so irate and upset that I didn't finish what I was doing correctly".

The row erupted with an entry on his Internet blog after Shannon Matthews was recently found alive in a relative's home after being missing for 24 days.

Mr Ward, who has sat on Medway Council in Kent for eight years, focused on how the nine-year-old's mother Karen has seven children by five fathers.

He wrote: "This is yet another example of 'Breakdown Britain', much of which stems from the Government-encouraged change away from the hard-working and decent family structure to an increasingly self-indulgent immoral and state-funded lazy lifestyle.

"Children become just a means toward that end, and are of themselves of little if any further significance in this new society.
"I think there is an increasingly strong case for compulsory sterilisation of all those who have had a second (or third, or whatever) child while living off state handouts.



"It would clearly take a lot of social pressures off all concerned, thus protecting the youngsters themselves to some degree, and remove the incentive to 'breed for greed' - i.e. for more public subsidy of their lifestyle (a well-known dodge, worth ever greater amounts to countless thousands of professional spongers).
"With over-population being the root cause of so much that negatively impacts Planet Earth, the very last thing the world needs is to encourage excessive breeding."

So time to send the tox-van around to persistant welfare-offenders house for a bit of the aul chemical castration then?

passive

Well... He's not wrong...

rediguana

I think it's a good idea (please somebody come along now and force me to resign from MY job).

Seriously though, sounds good to me. It would solve some problems. They could still get their benefits, but at least when they die that's the end of them.

Fremen

Why stop at sterilisation? Let's fill our cities with machine-gun vans which randomly take pot-shots at people. That'd help "ease social pressures", and at the same time make sure people were stronger and more alert.

Fecking daily mail.

mike65

The Mail reported the story the MP made the comments. I'd simply end all benifits after the first child is born. You are allowed one mistake, not many.

Mike.

Doctor DooM

Yes. The government should be allowed perform unconsented medical proceedures out on people who have commited no crime. That would be a great thing for any country.

Rob_l

Yeah and while we are at it lets kill old people that live too long or people who have a disability and are unable to work they are all drains on the system too. Think how we could clear the health systems problems by just killing people who are persistently sick.

rediguana

Lots of them HAVE committed crimes. This was always going to be an emotive topic.

Doctor DooM

rediguana wrote: »

Lots of them HAVE committed crimes. This was always going to be an emotive topic.

No mention of that in the OP at all... Qualify your statement man, your not on bebo

Doctor DooM

Rob_l wrote: »

Yeah and while we are at it lets kill old people that live too long or people who have a disability and are unable to work they are all drains on the system too. Think how we could clear the health systems problems by just killing people who are persistently sick.

Yeah, coming over here and stealing our healthy-ness!

is_that_so

Maybe it could be offered free as part of the benefits.
Meanwhile the Swedes have been there before.

Fremen

mike65 wrote: »

The Mail reported the story the MP made the comments. I'd simply end all benifits after the first child is born. You are allowed one mistake, not many.

Mike.

Soooo.... then they starve? Or sell themselves on the street?

Doctor DooM

is_that_so wrote: »

Maybe it could be offered free as part of the benefits.
Meanwhile the Swedes have been there before.

In that case it was the mentally ill... I assume they got away with that in the cases where people were judged not to know well enough for their own good?

is_that_so

Yeah, but it was deemed "politically acceptable" if not necessary. Although as that link points out they've had to pay compensation to families and individuals.

rediguana

SDooM wrote: »

No mention of that in the OP at all... Qualify your statement man, your not on bebo

Hey, don't make me start correcting your punctuation

Why is it so difficult to adopt but there are no restrictions on giving birth? Some people aren't qualified to bring up kids, they can't even take care of themselves.

Recent events are hardening my heart. Those poor Polish guys in Drimnagh, those riots in Finglas... When are people going to realise that things aren't working.

Obviously, the sterilisation dream will never actually happen. But I really think it's time to break balls with people who are messing up society.

Doctor DooM

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, but it was deemed "politically acceptable" if not necessary.

It also said that the people didn't support it.

Could you imagine if you told the lads round Darndale, for example, you were injecting acid into their two veg? There would be a proper, no messing, riot.

Kintarō Hattori

SDooM wrote: »

Yeah, coming over here and stealing our healthy-ness!

Who exactly came over here and stole our 'healthiness?

beans wrote: »

Well not quite all of them, but certainly those who insist on raising multiple kids on state benefits.
So time to send the tox-van around to persistant welfare-offenders house for a bit of the aul chemical castration then?

I'm a bit confused OP as the title of your thread and the post within don't seem to correlate. Who are the proles?

Doctor DooM

rediguana wrote: »

Hey, don't make me start correcting your punctuation

Why is it so difficult to adopt but there are no restrictions on giving birth? Some people aren't qualified to bring up kids, they can't even take care of themselves.

Recent events are hardening my heart. Those poor Polish guys in Drimnagh, those riots in Finglas... When are people going to realise that things aren't working.

Obviously, the sterilisation dream will never actually happen. But I really think it's time to break balls with people who are messing up society.

Sorry for the poor use of you're, I am speed posting in work

Interesting fact...

A witness' testimony is so called because if you lied in court, you lost your... ahem.., fun factory.

Corporal punishment I cannot agree with. What happens if you are innocently sent to jail? no amount of money would compensate for the loss of my mirrorballs.

beans

His whole point is to start a discussion on encouraging excessive breeding.

First idea into my head was to lower child benefit and increase the minimum wage, and rules on affordable housing - thus providing a bit more carrot. I have read of situations whereby it's more economically viable to live off the state than to work - can't blame such people for making the best of the system they're in.

Make it un-attractive economically to 'provide' for your family in this way... if that fails, yeah why not, bring on the Wombulator-X2000...

mike65

Fremen wrote: »

Soooo.... then they starve? Or sell themselves on the street?

Nope the state would take the children into care for adoption. I can't find a recent number but less than 5000 children are adopted in the UK every year. Many many more want to have the chance.

Mike.

Doctor DooM

beans wrote: »

His whole point is to start a discussion on encouraging excessive breeding.

First idea into my head was to lower child benefit and increase the minimum wage, and rules on affordable housing - thus providing a bit more carrot. I have read of situations whereby it's more economically viable to live off the state than to work - can't blame such people for making the best of the system they're in.

Make it un-attractive economically to 'provide' for your family in this way... if that fails, yeah why not, bring on the Wombulator-X2000...

Great idea. I guess the flip side is if the minimum raise rises, so does most other people's wages, which has a knock on affect.

Fremen

rediguana wrote: »

Hey, don't make me start correcting your punctuation

Why is it so difficult to adopt but there are no restrictions on giving birth? Some people aren't qualified to bring up kids, they can't even take care of themselves.

Recent events are hardening my heart. Those poor Polish guys in Drimnagh, those riots in Finglas... When are people going to realise that things aren't working.

Obviously, the sterilisation dream will never actually happen. But I really think it's time to break balls with people who are messing up society.

I think I'd quite like to see mandatory parenting classes for new parents. I think I'd agree with you that some people are completely unsuited to bringing up a child. The question is how to stop them without trampling all over their human rights.
Seriously, machine-gun vans are the way to go.

beans

eo980 wrote: »

I'm a bit confused OP as the title of your thread and the post within don't seem to correlate. Who are the proles?

I just used that as a blanket-term for what would be popularly called the 'working classes', mis-referencing a famous book

Kintarō Hattori

beans wrote: »

I just used that as a blanket-term for what would be popularly called the 'working classes', mis-referencing a famous book

Ahh I see I see, I really should read a wee bit more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proles

mike65

Signs of a poorly educated troublesome underclass on this thread

Mike.

is_that_so

Fremen wrote: »

Seriously, machine-gun vans are the way to go.

They'd need to be tagged first otherwise perfectly good breeding stock could be taken out in the crossfire.
Seriously I'd favour far greater State powers to intervene , to arrange for fostering or perhaps adoption. And why not include a free sterilisation as part of the State benefits. IMO it gives everyone a better chance.

Rob_l

is_that_so wrote: »

They'd need to be tagged first otherwise perfectly good breeding stock could be taken out in the crossfire.
Seriously I'd favour far greater State powers to intervene , to arrange for fostering or perhaps adoption. And why not include a free sterilisation as part of the State benefits. IMO it gives everyone a better chance.

Offering a free sterilisation service good
Any sort of forced government action on those already marginalized by society and not in a position to defend themselves very wrong

Doctor DooM

is_that_so wrote: »

They'd need to be tagged first otherwise perfectly good breeding stock could be taken out in the crossfire.
Seriously I'd favour far greater State powers to intervene , to arrange for fostering or perhaps adoption. And why not include a free sterilisation as part of the State benefits. IMO it gives everyone a better chance.

Fostering and adoption yes. But Eugenics is not a route entered lightly.

Then you get into the hypotheticals... what if you euginicise someone who was on track to produce the person who cures cancer?

What if you stopt he next hitler?

is_that_so

SDooM wrote: »

Fostering and adoption yes. But Eugenics is not a route entered lightly.

Then you get into the hypotheticals... what if you euginicise someone who was on track to produce the person who cures cancer?

What if you stopt he next hitler?

I am not talking about forced sterilisation. Make it a free benefit.

blah

It's been done

Doctor DooM

is_that_so wrote: »

I am not talking about forced sterilisation. Make it a free benefit.

No problem with that, either.

Jay P

Having just reas 1984 I was diappointed to learn that this wasn't a misplaced thread. But I agree, as wrong and all as it sounds but they just can't raise a million kids properly

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Or we could just provide free birth control...

Dudess

I'm not convinced that certain people keep having children solely to get benefits. So you get a house or flat - it's gonna be a sh1thole. I worked in a housing department - the more of an emergency your housing need is, the worse the place is gonna be. And the money you're in receipt of isn't exactly all the riches in the world.
I think some people are simply uneducated, have no self control, and are lazy and irresponsible.

As for compulsory sterilisation: I can see the guy's point (particularly when it comes to people like this horrible knacker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizzy_Bardsley) but it's just too sinister and reminiscent of scary stuff that went on in Europe 50 years ago, so no, I would not be in favour of it.

Gummy Panda

i'm from ballymun so i've seen people using their kids and the book to get the likes of new cars (on finance) and such. They'd live with their boyfriends and claim single mother benefits including rent allowance.

I don't want to begrudge people but it kinda sucks to see people getting an easy ride through life from my taxes.

Handsome Bob

Eh, what kind of discussion is this? I don't know how to interpret a lot of the posts in this thread but all I will say is that if you support that mans view you may as well support eugenics.

Doctor DooM

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Eh, what kind of discussion is this? I don't know how to interpret a lot of the posts in this thread but all I will say is that if you support that mans view you may as well support eugenics.

It a discussion in After hours so its 95% waffle, 4.5% serious discussion and 0.5% pics or it didn't happen.

You're right btw.

Handsome Bob

SDooM wrote: »

It a discussion in After hours so its 95% waffle, 4.5% serious discussion and 0.5% pics or it didn't happen.

You're right btw.

Yeah, I kind of got that feeling man. Thanks for the heads up about this forum!:D

Also, isn't just shocking that it was a tory who made those comments? Never.:)

blah

SDooM wrote: »

It a discussion in After hours so its 95% waffle, 4.5% serious discussion and 0.5% pics or it didn't happen.

+



=

Rb

I fully agree with him.

Doctor DooM

blah wrote: »

+



=

'kay, thats a LOL in work from me, you git!

Doctor DooM

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Yeah, I kind of got that feeling man. Thanks for the heads up about this forum!:D

Also, isn't just shocking that it was a tory who made those comments? Never.:)

I hope you are not saying the tory pary are out of touch. they will have one of their people come over and thrash you for a farthing

Dudess

I'm not in agreement with the guy either but at the same time, if I was, would I really be supporting eugenics? It wouldn't be a bid to keep a particular race pure/eradicate another race.

Sam Vimes

Fremen wrote: »

Soooo.... then they starve? Or sell themselves on the street?

or, and this is a mind blowing idea, get a job?

of course exceptions should be made for people who are incapable of working

Rb

Sam Vimes wrote: »

or, and this is a mind blowing idea, get a job?

of course exceptions should be made for people who are incapable of working

Exactly.

Massive LOL at thinking without welfare they'd go starving, perhaps that's because they're lazy fckers who wouldn't get a job? Which at the end of the day is who's problem? That's right, it's theirs, if they starved and died as a consequence of their own laziness, then society as a whole is better off.

Dudess

Fremen wrote: »

Soooo.... then they starve? Or sell themselves on the street?

That's a strange thing to say. Do you honestly think those are the only alternatives for able-bodied, healthy people in their prime?

Rob_l

Its not about the parents starving its about the effect withdrawing welfare would have on the child's life.

L31mr0d

Reminds of that "Ethics" email that did the rounds. Worth a read if you haven't already:

http://www.sculpturesplace.com/bbs/index.cgi/noframes/read/302

Not being in agreement with the policy I do however think there should be some sort of control on the amount of children a person can have, maybe not sterilizing the person but reducing the amount of welfare a person receives for each additional child they have.

Dudess

But then that will cause the poor kids to "starve"...

Seriously, that kind of mindset only encourages a lack of personal responsibility.

CCCP^

Can you imagine how much of a farce and bloody nightmare such a program would be if undertaken in Ireland by the HSE? Jesus. I shudder to think about it.

Perhaps the promotion of better family planning, free or at best more affordable condoms and the removal of welfare benefits after the 3rd child would be more acceptable and more successful?

I think, with the way things are currently going on Planet Consume, that it won't be long before rationing is introduced. Might be a good idea to start cutting back on the population, especially in Ireland where everything is imported.

LouOB

There have been alot of good ideas on this thread

Now, if only we could co-ordinate our powers for them to be implemented...hmmmmm.
Oh .... ask Hitler he had all the good ideas.....