How would Ireland do in a War?

Riddle101

This is more of a retorical question but i wonder what your opinions are on how Ireland would do in a war. Do you think we'd get trashed and lose, be able to fight and hold out against and enemy until we can start negotiating peace or so you think we'd actually win. Obviously no one really knows what would happen because it depends on the country but let' say i don't know Cuba(Only an example) decides they want to invade us. Do you think we'd do well to defend us and be able to stick it to them and show the rest of the world we maybe small but we got teeth, or would it be suicide.

I say this because the PDF has come along way in the last 15 years maybe more or less. It's no longer that small peace keeping army with lack of proper weaponary and experience. Now the PDF is more professional and has evolved since those days, and i gotta tell you, i feel a lot more safer with the PDF now then i would if we went back to the 60's or 70's(No offence to any former soldiers of course). So what do you think would happen.

I personally and i'm not being biased but given the circumstances i'd say Ireland would do alright, we may be outnumbered by Cuba and a lot of armies but our ferocity on the battlefield could well keep us in the battle as long as we don't give in. One thing i'd be rather worried about though would be if the enemy used Naval and Air support then i'd be rather worried, because i feel our Air and Naval corps(again no offence to any Naval and Air corp soldiers) are a bit lacking in the ability of proper naval warfare. But none the less we have our ground defence such as the Air Defence and i'm sure we proberly have a naval defence too, can anybody clarify?

Anyway I'm done, now's your turn(hopefully)

minidazzler

This is a more Walter Mitty Question dont you think?

AckwelFoley

Unless we were being attacked by the Isle of Man, i think we may have a problem.

Its a very broad question really, because one big factor would be our agressor, and their agression used.

If china lands on our shores in the morning with 100 boat loads of troops, some nuclear missles and a letter for the president telling her shes out of a job, thre is fcuk all we could do.

If however we were attacked, troop for troop with similar tec, im pretty sure we would have ability of defending ourselvs

Kenjd

We could just build the roads for our invading troops so they could conquer Europe! Then sit back and watch!

arybvtcw0eolkf

In a war or a battle?.

In a war I truely believe that we'd beat anyone, if it takes a year - a generation - or a thousend year's I think we'd beat anyone who invades our shores.

In a battle, ie if our country was to be invaded I think militarily we'd be defeated in a matter of hours and our government would surrender.

Our recent influx of immigrants would leave and our people would rise up against our invaders.

ex_infantry man

Mairt wrote: »

In a war or a battle?.

In a war I truely believe that we'd beat anyone, if it takes a year - a generation - or a thousend year's I think we'd beat anyone who invades our shores.

In a battle, ie if our country was to be invaded I think militarily we'd be defeated in a matter of hours and our government would surrender.

Our recent influx of immigrants would leave and our people would rise up against our invaders.

it has been done before!!!! and so was the foundation of our state!

arybvtcw0eolkf

ex_infantry man wrote: »

it has been done before!!!! and so was the foundation of our state!

What?.

Grizzly 45

A full on invasion less than possibly the Icelandic police force or the Aran islands[with apologies to those two fine races:)].We are up the creek,minus a paddle,boat and lifejacket.We could possibly revert to a gureilla /partisan type war and make it VERY uncomfortable for any invader to hold onto,IF we were prepared for it,and had the people behind us.
I have always thought should be built into a national defence policy like the Swiss.Who have/had set up and prepared Switzerland for such an eventuality.

In a battle,with proper motivation,equipment and leadership,the Irish fighting man is second to none!We have proved this historically thru the ages.Winning wars and battles for everyone but ourselves.:rolleyes:

ex_infantry man

Mairt wrote: »

What?.

well like the british empire did invade our country rape and pillage our towns and villages for over 800 years we fought that did,nt we!!!!!!!!!

williambonney

ex_infantry man wrote: »

well like the british empire did invade our country rape and pillage our towns and villages for over 800 years we fought that did,nt we!!!!!!!!!

The Normans who conquered England in 1066 invaded Ireland in 1169. when were we ever invaded by the “British Empire”?

Black Swan

Remember a couple of Tom Cruise lines from Top Gun:
1916: "Crashed and burned."
1922: "Lookin pretty good so far."

ChapOfDRyans

isnt the same topic in the walter mitty forum

minidazzler

williambonney wrote: »

The Normans who conquered England in 1066 invaded Ireland in 1169. when were we ever invaded by the “British Empire”?

Cromwell?

Grizzly 45

Try maybe for Cromwell.... English invasion? The term Britan or more specifically Great Britan came about I belive late 17th early 18 century?

PRND

ex_infantry man wrote: »

well like the british empire did invade our country rape and pillage our towns and villages for over 800 years we fought that did,nt we!!!!!!!!!

Your great grandparents and their families must have had a tough time being raped and pillaged for their entire existence.

You're talking about a period which, for the majority, was a peaceful and proud part of the British Empire.

Where people willingly enlisted and went to fight elsewhere.

arybvtcw0eolkf

PRND wrote: »

Your great grandparents and their families must have had a tough time being raped and pillaged for their entire existence.

.

Well I can trace my great-grandparents on one side back to leaving Limerick at the end of the famine, while I've no idea if anyone was raped their land and the food grown on it were certainly pillaged by the British.

The same Great-grandparent's family still have items taken (by them) from the dead body of a twelve year old daughter shot dead on Townsend St. (Dublin) by the 'Black and Tans'.

But getting back to the topic of the thread.

I think if we're invaded again (vikings or Brit's I could care less for that argument) I think we'd be militarily defeated in a matter of hours but as we've done through history we'd rise and fight to a victory someday.

Kaiser_Sma

We haven't really got a complete armed forces, nothing really to fight air or navel power and a rather limtied anti armour capability. If you think having a partisan history is enough to deter even the most determined invasion, then you should see how many hundreds of years it took ireland to be liberated the last time . Also people are rather softer here now then the used to be. No genetic irish warrior type is gonna help us either.

c-90

^^^ kinda gives the impression that moral in the df is bad, is it?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Kaiser_Sma wrote: »

We haven't really got a complete armed forces, nothing really to fight air or navel power and a rather limtied anti armour capability. If you think having a partisan history is enough to deter even the most determined invasion, then you should see how many hundreds of years it took ireland to be liberated the last time . Also people are rather softer here now then the used to be. No genetic irish warrior type is gonna help us either.

But thats what the British and American's can't understand in Iraq and Afghanistan, whats inside the heart of a risen people.

Do you think the leader's of 1916 thought for a moment they were going to see a free and undivided Ireland?.. Or their forefathers?.. No they didn't, but they knew that someday our time would come.

It hasn't come yet, and I don't think I'll see a tri-colour fly over a free and undivided Ireland but it doesn't bother me, because I know that someday it will.

And while I agree that a lot of Irish now are probably gone a bit soft, it doesn't take a whole population to rise and beat an invader - 'The war of the flea' my friend

Fratton Fred

I guess a lot would come down to who invaded and what methods they used to quell any insurgency.

If they followed the Israeli approach then we'd be fecked because they bulldoze the homes of suicide bombers etc with basicaly no regard for human life. Almost akin to the nazi approach of killing the wives and families of resistance fighters.

However, as any invader would probably want to use the population for something then they would probably want to keep most of them alive, it's not as if Ireland has huge amounts of natural resources or if any neighbouring countries consider it part of their territory (Any more!).

As for a straight forward scrap, the Irish military wouldn;t last too long as any aggressor would no doubt have complete air supremecy from day one. Doesn;t matter how good the ground troops are, wars are won from the air.

daithicarr

think its a daft question, as we are an island you need a relativly large military to ship all the troops and materials here, and we couldnt stand up to Pakistan if they some how felt inclined to invade and no one felt like stoppping them.

our geography is our best defense, there is no one near us to invade.
the only possible scenario for a war, would really be with england, and they would win hands down. they would probably be in central Dublin an hour after declaring war.

of course we tried to Invade Canada once (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenian_raids)
and one of their subs ran in to trouble a few years ago of our coast
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Chicoutimi_(SSK_879)#October_5.2C_2004_incident)

Maybe they were scouting the way for an Invasion. we should build up our forces and keep an eye on them.

as for resistance/partisan warfare, where would we get the weapons?
The IRA had a hard time getting weapons in past our tiny security forces.
Its not as if me have massive stockpiles lying about, or even a large number of privately held firearms.

Maybe we could make pike's and rush the bastards, just like 1798 (except this time they have machine guns, tanks, laser guded missiles)

Thomas_S_Hunterson

I'd say our best bet would probably be to legitamise and mobilise the IRA tbh:p

IRLConor

daithicarr wrote: »

The IRA had a hard time getting weapons in past our tiny security forces.

The drug smugglers seem to be doing OK. I suspect that they have a bigger support base than the IRA have had for quite a while.

daithicarr wrote: »

Its not as if me have massive stockpiles lying about, or even a large number of privately held firearms.

We've about 250,000 legally held firearms I think.

Riddle101

Sean_K wrote: »

I'd say our best bet would probably be to legitamise and mobilise the IRA tbh:p

lol War For Independence II

Anyway i didn't know whether to put this on Walter Mitty or this one but i thought it wouldn't matter so much since it's all miltary talk

arybvtcw0eolkf

daithicarr wrote: »

think its a daft question, as we are an island you need a relativly large military to ship all the troops and materials here, and we couldnt stand up to Pakistan if they some how felt inclined to invade and no one felt like stoppping them.

our geography is our best defense, there is no one near us to invade.
the only possible scenario for a war, would really be with england, and they would win hands down. they would probably be in central Dublin an hour after declaring war.

of course we tried to Invade Canada once (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenian_raids)
and one of their subs ran in to trouble a few years ago of our coast
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Chicoutimi_(SSK_879)#October_5.2C_2004_incident)

Maybe they were scouting the way for an Invasion. we should build up our forces and keep an eye on them.

as for resistance/partisan warfare, where would we get the weapons?
The IRA had a hard time getting weapons in past our tiny security forces.
Its not as if me have massive stockpiles lying about, or even a large number of privately held firearms.

Maybe we could make pike's and rush the bastards, just like 1798 (except this time they have machine guns, tanks, laser guded missiles)

Let me guess, your about 12?.

minidazzler

daithicarr wrote: »

as for resistance/partisan warfare, where would we get the weapons?
The IRA had a hard time getting weapons in past our tiny security forces.
Its not as if me have massive stockpiles lying about, or even a large number of privately held firearms.

Maybe we could make pike's and rush the bastards, just like 1798 (except this time they have machine guns, tanks, laser guded missiles)

Everyone who knows a Yank raise their hand! There are a few hundred ways we could get weapons into this country.
The Germans would help us
The English(unless its them invading) would help us
The Americans would colonise/help us
The French would probably lend a hand
The Israeli's Might do us a few favours


Most countries in this world Like Ireland so in the Unlikely event we are invaded I think we have a few buddies to help us.

Secondly, Pikes??? Are you serious??? Are you really trivialising the 1798 rebelion? You may be born in Ireland but that does not make you Irish.
1798 laid the ground work for 1916. It gave people spirit.

Do you wanna take a stab at that too? Oh only a few eejits went out with some rifles and sung a song.

Never underestimate the stubborness of a true Irish man when his country is being fecked over.

daithicarr

minidazzler wrote: »

You may be born in Ireland but that does not make you Irish.
.

On what grounds do you question my "irishness" , maybe you could define Irishness while your at it.

I am merely pointing out that we dont really have the military ability to defend our selves, or the capacity
i was not trivialising the 1798 rebelion, i was just poitning out that we dont really have much in the way of modern weaponry that was help facilitate a resistance.
Sure there are about 250,000 legaly held firearms, but they are mostly shotguns or old hunting rifles. i sure as hell wouldnt want to be up against a modern army that can blow me to bits a long time before i could get close enough to use my shotgun, and with body armours and other protections used by modern infantry id be better of weilding my shotgun as a club.

Militarily defeating an openent isint an option, point out one occasion in the last 600 years we managed that?

The only option would be large scale civil disobediance and trying and get world public support behind us maybe with the aid of a military wing such as in the war of indepenace. of course the tactics would have to completely change, as flying columns etc wouldnt have a hope in the 21st Century

I am sure weapons could be obtained, but nothing even aproaching the scale of that held by the resistance in Iraq, a region awash with weapons

toiletduck

IRLConor wrote:

We've about 250,000 legally held firearms I think.

Really??

Anyways lads it's all irrelevant. Mounting an insurrection against an occupying force? Then take their weapons...

IRLConor

toiletduck wrote: »

Really?

Sorry, my number was a little high. Here are numbers that were read out in the Dail in April 2005:

[B]Category              2000        2001       2002       2003       2004 [/B]
Rifles/Air Rifles   39,850      40,281     41,650     43,246     45,225
Shotguns           167,202     166,231    167,157    168,640    168,177
Crossbows               60          64         68         68         74
Pistols/Revolvers        0           0          0          0        120
Total              207,112     206,576    208,875    211,954    213,596

Now, those numbers cover the firearms held on licenses, I suspect they do not cover firearms owned by clubs and held on club authorisations or firearms held by firearms dealers pending sale. The numbers should be broadly correct though.

Fratton Fred

IRLConor wrote: »

Sorry, my number was a little high. Here are numbers that were read out in the Dail in April 2005:

[B]Category              2000        2001       2002       2003       2004 [/B]
Rifles/Air Rifles   39,850      40,281     41,650     43,246     45,225
Shotguns           167,202     166,231    167,157    168,640    168,177
Crossbows               60          64         68         68         74
Pistols/Revolvers        0           0          0          0        120
Total              207,112     206,576    208,875    211,954    213,596

Now, those numbers cover the firearms held on licenses, I suspect they do not cover firearms owned by clubs and held on club authorisations or firearms held by firearms dealers pending sale. The numbers should be broadly correct though.

or the weapons the de-commisioning body missed. I expect there are a few SAMs hanging around somewhere up north:rolleyes:

daithicarr

Still not much to start an inserection with, but to send people out armed with what we have would just result in a lot of dead young men on our part a few rifles and shotguns , plus 120 hand guns aint much against any military force , course it all depends on who we are fighting, we could beat iceland, and luxembourg if we could sneak through France un-noticed
. i dont think we face any credible threat to invasion. any invasion of ireland would have to be carried out with England and the EU's will. we have america to one side and Europe to the other. if some one can over come them to get to us, well were ****ed.