Weight Loss Surgery?

Curvy Vixen

Not sure where to put this so feel free to move it mods! It's not really diet or fitness so I was a bit stumped...

I was wondering what your general thoughts were on weight loss surgery ~ i.e. the band, gastric bypass etc?

Do you think it's a 'cop-out'. Something that you see as the 'easy way out' to weight loss?

If someone you knew/loved told you they were getting one of these procedures what would you think of them??

Babette08

It depends really on the severity of the case – if the person is in serious danger health wise.

I really do think it’s a rather extreme measure though and something that should only be done as a last resort. From the cases I’ve heard of on TV etc. anyone who has gone ahead with it has exhausted all the usual options, including psychological help.

Until any of us were in a situation where a procedure that could kill us was the only option, as we see it, for future health and happiness, then it’s hard to form an opinion. I’d never judge someone I knew for doing it but would just hope that they would try the traditional methods first.

MooseJam

Having your stomach stapled to stop you from stuffing yourself is shocking, good diet and exercise is the best route to a slim figure, it's a big cop out and you will never be able to eat a proper meal again - ever

There is a thread on this here........http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055071821

Gastric bypasses scare the hell out of me. Aren't they irreversible?

I look at radical things like lipotrim and surgery as the most difficult ways to lose weight. I think it is a creul way to do it.

I wouldn't go through something like that unless my life was in danger, and until I knew that I had a handle on the cause of my weight gain.

People are always going to have negative opinions about weight loss. Even small losses. I think you have to be prepared to ignore these types.

Quality

I would be terrified if I heard someone I knew was having one. It is a very serious operation to have.

It is not an easy way out at all. People put their lives at risk having this operation. My cousins friend died in one of these operations about 2 years ago.

Curvy Vixen

Thanks for that link Moonbaby ~ hadn't sen it on an earlier search.

I am fascinated by the amount of people who feel that this is an easy option. It's so far from easy. I'm also amazed by those that say, eat less, cycle, run etc. Do they not think that the overweight person may not have already tried those routes? Assuming that at 20 odd stone (or whatever) that they could actually manage to do that.

Seraphina

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

I'm also amazed by those that say, eat less, cycle, run etc. Do they not think that the overweight person may not have already tried those routes? Assuming that at 20 odd stone (or whatever) that they could actually manage to do that.

nope, from my experience, anyone getting these operations CLAIMS to have exhausted all other routes and exercise does nothing and i have a slow metabolism, when really they're just lazy and eating junk.

i've seen a number of tv programmes in which vastly overweight people continue to eat their normal diet of ****e and soda, with the reasoning that 'the surgery will sort it out'. its a cop out for lazy people.

diet and exercise work. you are not unique and immune to its effects, you're just not trying hard enough.

Curvy Vixen

Just curious seraphina ~ do you base that on medical knowledge or is it a personal opinion?

justsomebloke

*NB I'm male and I post in the fitness forum so bare that in mind before reading this*

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

I am fascinated by the amount of people who feel that this is an easy option. It's so far from easy

I would have to say that I would also say that it is taking the easy way out. You are taking the personnel responsibility for having to say "No" away form yourself. Is it easy no but it is probably a lot easier then effort you would have to put in to losing the wait and being accountable to yourself to what you put in your body for what would be a extended period i.e. measured in years not months

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

I'm also amazed by those that say, eat less, cycle, run etc. Do they not think that the overweight person may not have already tried those routes?

yes chances are they probably did try varying methods but there own lack of discipline is the reason they failed. All the gastric band will do will limit the size of the food you can put in your system it is no different to you learning to say no I have had enough. It is a magical cure it is just one way of limiting the amount of calories you put in your system. You could do the exact same with diet and exercise without having to go through the process of surgery.

Ok on another side as I said at the start of the thread I post in the fitness forum and this has given me a insight into what people classify as a healthy diet and more often then not these plans are hopeless and would generally leave people in the position of losing lean body mass while dieting. It is this loss of LBM that can lead to people putting on more fat once then they lost when they go back to eating "normally"

So I would be interested in hearing what healthy eating and exercise plans you have gone through before hand. As going to a decent nutrionist and personnal trainer may be money better spent. Also depending on your relation with food a psychologist maybe able to address any personnel reasons for over eating.

tallaght01

Seraphina wrote: »

nope, from my experience, anyone getting these operations CLAIMS to have exhausted all other routes and exercise does nothing and i have a slow metabolism, when really they're just lazy and eating junk.

i've seen a number of tv programmes in which vastly overweight people continue to eat their normal diet of ****e and soda, with the reasoning that 'the surgery will sort it out'. its a cop out for lazy people.

diet and exercise work. you are not unique and immune to its effects, you're just not trying hard enough.

How many people can you possibly know who've had that surgery???

It ain't an easy way out. I've seen it work well for people who've had it done. I once worked in a surgical unit where we did them.

Weight loss relies on a pretty complex interplay of factors. It's as much to do with dealing with depression, self-esteem and general happiness as it is with the right food and right fitness regimes.

It's definitely not right for everyone. It's only right for a small few punters. It has it's place, in a tiny corner of the weight loss world.

But people who are so overweight that they need it shouldn't be judged. They should be supported.

It's a definite "discuss with a surgeon for about a year before making a decision on it" type of thing, IMO.

Seraphina

tallaght01 wrote: »

How many people can you possibly know who've had that surgery???

i dont know them personally, tis to do with somewhere i've done filing/record keeping for, personal profiling etc is done during consultation. aaaaannnnywhoooo

as jsb said, what people class as eating healthy/exercising is PATHETIC and wouldn't keep a 10 year old fit. people need education and a bit of sweat, not ****ing surgery.

Babette08

Babette08 wrote: »

if the person is in serious danger health wise.

I would agree and I think counseling for the underlying issue should be mandatory, initially and ongoingly for a few years so the problem doesn't come back

cuckoo

Tbh, my off the top of my head opinion is that it's very scary. Anything that involves a general anaesthetic is a Big Deal - i've had surgeries in the past and found getting over the anaesthesia took a good few weeks.

TV drama hospital land makes surgery look like nothing, the patient/actor is smiling an hour later and everythings all better.

I don't think it's something that should be considered at all lightly - but, i'm just an internet randomer, so my opinion has only the value of the pixels on the screen.

Actually, thinking of tv drama land, wasn't there a story line on Greys Anatomy about it? Teenage girl had a dodgy version of stapling done in Mexico, or somewhere, and would have life long consequences? Again, the cameras were focusing on the gorgeous doctors, so we didn't see much of the realities of the surgery, but i don't think i'd watch if we got to see infected wounds, etc!

Wibbs

jsb wrote: »

yes chances are they probably did try varying methods but there own lack of discipline is the reason they failed. All the gastric band will do will limit the size of the food you can put in your system it is no different to you learning to say no I have had enough. It is a magical cure it is just one way of limiting the amount of calories you put in your system. You could do the exact same with diet and exercise without having to go through the process of surgery.

Nail on the head.

So I would be interested in hearing what healthy eating and exercise plans you have gone through before hand. As going to a decent nutrionist and personnal trainer may be money better spent. Also depending on your relation with food a psychologist maybe able to address any personnel reasons for over eating.

A much better plan though that would take hard work and personal responsibility. While I agree surgery is not an easy way out considering the risks, it is if successful a quick fix by comparison to what jsb suggests.

tallaght01

I'm amazed that there are people here who think that a reputable surgeon will do this op before there has been counselling, and attempts at more conventional weight loss.

I'm also amazed at the simplicity with which many people think grossly obese people can change their body habitus.

We don't tell alcoholics to just give up the drink. We don't tell those addicted to heroin to just stop taking it.

Similarly, we can't just chase the tail of never ending dieting ad infinitum. Sometimes more serious action is required. Tha rarity of the procedure (most people know some fat people, but most people won't know anyone who's had weight loss surgery) shows how seriously it's taken.

I'm also amazed that people think that the grossly obese people who make it as far as the operating theatre, aswell as their medical teams, are unaware of the links between calorie intake and weight gain.

It's definitely not an easy way out. Not only are there the risks of the op (just having the anaesthetic for someone who's that overweight is even dangerous) and the stay in ICU afterwards, but there are the short term risks (like wound healing probs, metabolic probs) and the long term probs (gallstones etc). The last adult patient I met who had it done was a lovely woman. But she was in and out of hospital with side effects for months after the surgery, like a yoyo.

But the surgery, along with continued dietary input, a graded fitness regime and good nursing, saw her lose a shed load of weight.

The last kid I met in this situation was a real sad case. About 12 years old. HUGE. I forget how heavy he was, but he had diabetes, high cholesterol, and reduced lung function because of his weight. I would stay behind work every day to go and play basketball with him in the play area. The dieticians and the physios tried everything they could. But the point came whereby he neded the surgery or he would have died.

It works for a lot of people. But,of course, there are failures. But there's a lot of ignorance about obesity out there.

Lux23

Seraphina wrote: »

i dont know them personally, tis to do with somewhere i've done filing/record keeping for, personal profiling etc is done during consultation. aaaaannnnywhoooo

as jsb said, what people class as eating healthy/exercising is PATHETIC and wouldn't keep a 10 year old fit. people need education and a bit of sweat, not ****ing surgery.

I completely disagree with that. Over the last 18 months ive lost four stone and I am currently grappling with the last ten pounds or so which don't want to go as far I can see. I have been dieting non stop since January and Ive lost a pound!!! I hate the gym but ive gotten that desparate that ive actually joined one in the last month, its working a little but I really find it difficult. Its hards work to maintain your weight nevermind lose it so for some who are say 10-15 stone overweight, weightloss surgery may be their only option. Unless you have followed a weightloss programme for more than a year or so you will never be able to comprehend how hard it is do this.

And just because you have done some nosing in personal medical files, it doesn't make you a doctor.

Jules

Very interesting topic but please keep it civil.

ztoical

Everything in context as they say - the people I've seen featured on tv going for this op fall under two sections - morbidly obese people i.e. someone whose 30+ stone, who is no longer able to get out of bed, needs to have the side of their house demo'd in order to get them out, and are pretty much going to die if something extreme isn't done soon. For them there is a very high risk from the operation due to their weight and only a handful of places will take the risk and do the operation for them.

Its very easy to judge these people and say o its all just down to will power and not being lazy, get off your fat ass and work out but there are alot of other factors that can effect someones weight. For example my dad died suddenly in september [not due to weight before anyone asks] It was a massive shock for me and over the space of four months I piled on a shocking amount of weight [couple of stone] I didn't want to go out and deal with people and ate alot of take aways as I didn't go shopping for food. Now I started back to the gym in January and went back to eating like I did before september but the weight is coming off alot slower then it went on and it would be very easy to become discouraged and say feck it esp when your just walking home and some random dickhead young lad leans out the window of his friends little boy racer car and screams "O fatty *insert disgusting comment I won't repeat on here*"

The other group of people I've seen programs about are people who would be borderline overweight/obesse - I find the attitude of alot of these people to be very annoying - it really is an easy option for them. They wouldn't actually have to do as much as they think to shift the weight but they go on and on about the op being the only option left to them. There was one MTV show following a 17 year old looking to get his stomach stapled - the cameras followed him and he just ate and ate and ate and the parents did nothing - he really didn't seem to understand what the operation was going to do and just saw it as the easy option, he didn't know that he wouldn't be able to eat half of the foods he was eating, he seemed to think the fat would just vanish. Alot of places in the US have no issue doing this type of operation on these people as they are a lower risk as their weight isn't extremely high and they pay through the nose for it.

WindSock

It doesn't bother me what a person wants to do with themselves to make them feel better.

ztoical

WindSock wrote: »

It doesn't bother me what a person wants to do with themselves to make them feel better.

I think the issue with weight loss surgery is the same as boob jobs and drugs like viagra - they do have a place and do help certain people but if they became available for free on the health service would people still be supportive if their tax money was paying for it. Some people do need the above mentioned services but not everyone would be happy if a slightly overweight 16 year old was looking to get their stomach stapled via the health service.

allabouteve

On sky news last week or the week before and in the daily mail, it was reportedly found that genetics was 75- 85% responsible for obesity. For many people you can diet and exersize for all your worth and the results are still way inferior to a person with more favourable genetics.

My guess is that the people who think all fat people are lazy have a more sucessful experience of dieting due to more favourable genetic input. I am the only person in my large family who is tall and slim. Everyone else is short and round, and I know the efforts my sisters have put in to losing the weight. It ain't easy and it ain't sucessful most of the time.

Surgery might look like the easy way out, but how much would an obese person have to punish themselves the conventional way without sucess before anyone thought it wasn't easy? Dont sit in judgement, for many people its probably the only long term answer.

ntlbell

allabouteve wrote: »

On sky news last week or the week before and in the daily mail, it was reportedly found that genetics was 75- 85% responsible for obesity. For many people you can diet and exersize for all your worth and the results are still way inferior to a person with more favourable genetics.

My guess is that the people who think all fat people are lazy have a more sucessful experience of dieting due to more favourable genetic input. I am the only person in my large family who is tall and slim. Everyone else is short and round, and I know the efforts my sisters have put in to losing the weight. It ain't easy and it ain't sucessful most of the time.

Surgery might look like the easy way out, but how much would an obese person have to punish themselves the conventional way without sucess before anyone thought it wasn't easy? Dont sit in judgement, for many people its probably the only long term answer.

In 99.99999% of cases being overweight is down to one thing, taken in more calories than you use.

There's nothing magical or mystical about it. Whatever way you do it if you use more cal's than you consume you will loose weight regardless of genetics or anything else.

ztoical

allabouteve wrote: »

On sky news last week or the week before and in the daily mail, it was reportedly found that genetics was 75- 85% responsible for obesity. For many people you can diet and exersize for all your worth and the results are still way inferior to a person with more favourable genetics.

And the BBC and the Times have reported genectics has very little to do with obesity.... people hear what they want to hear - its not my fault I'm just big boned, I've got a lower metabolism then most, its all down to my genes etc etc..... most of the people think they've tired really hard to loose the pounds but in most cases they've tired a fad diet that worked while they were on it but the minute they went back to their bad eating habits the weight came back - they didn't make changes for life with their eating and they didn't combine it with a good work out plan. I'm not saying this as some know it all thin fitness nut - I'm fat but I'm fat cus I ate too much of the wrong things and didn't work out enough.

People are fat cus they eat more then they burn off - the question shouldn't be why are they fat but rather why do they eat so much - for some its comfort, for others its boredom, and for alot of people they actually don't eat much but they eat all the wrong things - lots of people aren't aware whats in alot of the food we eat or the correct amounts we should be eating. We're living on ready made meals and prepacked foods and take aways.

Peared

What I find mad is that (sometimes) these are people who say they have tried everyting to lose weight and nothing but nothing works. They cant even lose a few pounds off their 30 stone frame.

Then they get told they need to lose x amount of weight to get gastric band surgery, the "miracle" cure.

And kablamo, they lose a few stone.

Dudess

That programme The 34 Stone Teenager was heartbreaking. She was 19 years of age. How could a person get to that weight by only 19? For most of those years she wasn't the food preparer or buyer. And even if she did spend the day stuffing her face... plenty of teens do that and don't get to 34 stone.
In order to reach a healthy weight she had to lose at least two thirds of her body weight - I get hungry just thinking about that. I can understand why she opted for gastric band surgery. At the same time though, being so young it wouldn't be impossible for her to just follow a healthy eating and exercise plan.

Mr. Presentable

It's effectively cosmetic. Without discipline, exercise and will power it is a temporary solution. If you can't be bothered, and the truth is, that's mostly it - yes I know there's a case in wherever of someone who, etc - but we are talking generally here - then in the long run it won't do you any good and won't do the tax payer any good.

Mr. Presentable

Dudess wrote: »

That programme The 34 Stone Teenager was heartbreaking. She was 19 years of age. How could a person get to that weight by only 19? For most of those years she wasn't the food preparer or buyer. And even if she did spend the day stuffing her face... plenty of teens do that and don't get to 34 stone.
In order to reach a healthy weight she had to lose at least two thirds of her body weight - I get hungry just thinking about that. I can understand why she opted for gastric band surgery. At the same time though, being so young it wouldn't be impossible for her to just follow a healthy eating and exercise plan.

It's pure and simple child abuse.

Mr. Presentable

allabouteve wrote: »

On sky news last week or the week before and in the daily mail, it was reportedly found that genetics was 75- 85% responsible for obesity. .

Really!!!
Have genetics changed that much in the last 30 years? In the 1920's 30's 40's 50's 60's 70's 80's there were so few obese people in Ireland you could count them on one hand. Obesity has increased hugely in the last few years.

I know, link me the study you refer!

MooseJam

It's all down to McDonalds if you ask me

WindSock

ztoical wrote: »

I think the issue with weight loss surgery is the same as boob jobs and drugs like viagra - they do have a place and do help certain people but if they became available for free on the health service would people still be supportive if their tax money was paying for it. Some people do need the above mentioned services but not everyone would be happy if a slightly overweight 16 year old was looking to get their stomach stapled via the health service.

I don't agree with having free weight loss surgery available for anyone and everyone. Extreme cases, perhaps. I'm just simply saying if someone wants to get it done, I wouldn't condemn them for their choice. I certainly wouldn't pay for it though.

allabouteve

http://http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=448290&in_page_id=1770

nipplenuts wrote: »

Really!!!
Have genetics changed that much in the last 30 years? In the 1920's 30's 40's 50's 60's 70's 80's there were so few obese people in Ireland you could count them on one hand. Obesity has increased hugely in the last few years.

I know, link me the study you refer!

New research has found a common gene, named FTO, found in millions of Britons could be largely responsible for exploding rates of obesity. People with two copies of the gene are almost 70% more at risk of being obese than those having none, and three kilograms heavier on average. The new findings, which estimates 16% of the population has the gene, is the first research to identify a common, population-wide genetic link to obesity.

it's linked above. Why the sarcasm?

Seraphina

*snigger*

from above source...

The discovery of a 'fat gene' could lead to the 'danger' of obese people giving up trying to lose weight, experts have warned.

It could mean obese people will simply blame the gene for struggling with their weight - rather than eating properly and exercising.

Although the gene mutation only accounts for a modest weight increase...

cuckoo

allabouteve wrote: »

Why the sarcasm?

I blame the genes.

allabouteve

Seraphina wrote: »

*snigger*

from above source...

I'm a fairly new poster on boards, and I fail to understand the hostility my original post on this thread has engendered. I merely pointed out something I felt was pertinent and would be of interest, and since then I've been surprised by the tone of the replies. Why? I don't think I've been rude or impolite. To be quite honest, its put me off contributing. I didn't realise that exploring all the elements involved was worthy of sneers and sarcasm. Thanks for the welcome.

Peared

allabouteve, I hate to say it but its true..you need to develop a thick skin around here.

A lot of people like disagreeing or having a good oul row for the sake of it, its nothing personal.

The other side of it is that people are also willing to give advice and support if you need it, you kinda have to take the good with the bad.

In fairness I think the other poster was commenting on the study itself, not on your posting of it.

Dont be put off

Seraphina

my point was merely that the study said genes affected weight only in a small percentage of the population, and counted for only a 'moderate weight increase', not the kind of rampant obesity we see today.

that's caused by pure laziness

Sangre

I think the biggest problem people have is not the effort they put in but the lack of education they have on the matter.

A girl while eat hardly anything for a few days, lose a few pounds (lots of water weight). Of course they're metabolism will probably crash and the weight will pile back on. They do this a few times and they're up a few pounds from where they started.

I've had people laugh at my suggestions for improving their health e.g. lift weights, eat more frequently, eat more protein etc.,

That being said, maybe if they're weren't so lazy they'd find this out themselve.s

allabouteve

Seraphina wrote: »

my point was merely that the study said genes affected weight only in a small percentage of the population, and counted for only a 'moderate weight increase', not the kind of rampant obesity we see today.

that's caused by pure laziness

Only a small percentage of the population go for gastric band surgery too. Generalisations help no one, as everybody is unique. As I said in my original post, I'm the only one in my large family who is both tall and slim, yet presumably I share a large percentage of genes with my siblings. A moderate weight gain in someone very short shows much more than on a tall person. Sometimes life is a lucky dip at the beginning.

I never said that fat people shouldn't persue all the usual avenues to regularise their weight. Far from it, as a lifestyle that reduces weight will also increase health. I never said that surgery is a magic cure all. Yes people are too sedentary and lazy today and yes most people are responsible for their health. But some get a raw deal at the start. I'm five foot ten and 9 and a half stone. My younger sister is five foot and the same weight, but obivously looks much heavier than I do. Of the two of us I would say that I'm definitely the lazier one, so I guess that metabolism plays a part too.

meglome

What I find amazing is that in these programmes people are being taken off to hospital to have their stomachs downsized but why did no one stop feeding them like they were pigs before it came to that. Jesus some of them hadn't been out of bed in years, how were they still able to shovel it in. It's very sad to see some of these poor feckers and worse that they did it to themselves.

ali.c

meglome wrote: »

What I find amazing is that in these programmes people are being taken off to hospital to have their stomachs downsized but why did no one stop feeding them like they were pigs before it came to that. Jesus some of them hadn't been out of bed in years, how were they still able to shovel it in. It's very sad to see some of these poor feckers and worse that they did it to themselves.

True but i am not sure that food addiction doesnt play a large role in them getting into that state. Equally heroin addicts destroy their health it doesnt necessarily make them bad people. The problem with the people that get into that state is that it is not like they can just go cold turkey they have to eat daily.

Starview

Surgery is not a cop out.Everybody is entitled to do whatever they feel is best for them irresepctive of popular opinion.
If you feel that nothing else works cosmetic surgery , liposuction , tummy tucks etc is the way to go.If the people treating you are half professional at all they will review all your personal circumstances , mindset , health etc etc and will advise accordingly.
Whatever makes you happy with yourself, thats the important.

I am having New U Lipo Liposuction done in Chatahm Street next week. I will let you know how I get on if you like.

Dragan

tallaght01 wrote: »

Weight loss relies on a pretty complex interplay of factors. It's as much to do with dealing with depression, self-esteem and general happiness as it is with the right food and right fitness regimes.

It's definitely not right for everyone. It's only right for a small few punters. It has it's place, in a tiny corner of the weight loss world.

But people who are so overweight that they need it shouldn't be judged. They should be supported.

It's a definite "discuss with a surgeon for about a year before making a decision on it" type of thing, IMO.

While i see where you are coming from the basic elements of weight loss are as simple as energy in versus energy expended. If someone has some kind of depression, self esteem or happiness issues this is part of a much broader spectrum and i would think the person would need some kind of counselling instead of a horrible invasive surgery that they only need because they ate themselves into that level of obesiety.

Frankly, i don't care what anyone says, it is not easy to get to the level where gastric bypass surgery is required for HEALTH reasons unless you have been pounding food for a long time. At my very, very , very heaviest i was rather overweight and had been eating stupidly for about 4 years. Even then i never even came close to the level where gastric surgery would be required.

Did i have self esteem issues? Yes.

Was i depressed? Sure.

So i went to the gym and started eating right. I put some effort in to sorting out my problems head on and i took care of my health.

While i have no doubt that a very small handful of people do need this to ensure they stay alive i feel they also need a good kicking for getting themselves into that position in the first place.

Dragan

allabouteve wrote: »

On sky news last week or the week before and in the daily mail, it was reportedly found that genetics was 75- 85% responsible for obesity. For many people you can diet and exersize for all your worth and the results are still way inferior to a person with more favourable genetics.

Ha ha ha. I'm really very sorry but genetics will play a very, very small part in a persons success. Chance has a much bigger role.

Think about it. Lance Armstrong is arguably the greatest cyclist in history. The man is tailor made at a physical level for long distance cycling. Now, think of the odds of a man being born with such an ability AND also, for some strange reason, ending up on a bike in that situation in the first place?

People look at top athletes and think "wow, they are so physical gifted for their sport" but they neglect to think about how and what got them their. Chance and hard ****ing work.

A "normal" person can acheive about 50% of their "genetic" ability in my view and still look amazing, be a far better physical specimen than the "average" person ever will.

No offence to anybody, but looking good through correct diet and physical excercise, being a healthy and well function human, it takes a lot of hard work to reach even close to your genetic potential. I can understand why people buckle and fail under the pressure, i have sometimes in the past when persuing various physicals goals.

However, retaining enough physical condition to be happy with yourself and to get laid every now and then is NOT that hard. It justs requires some small and consistant effort.

Don't let a scewed look at genetic's role in physical acheivement make you think the average person cannot do amazing things.

Starview

Dragan,

While I take you point and everyone is entitled to their opinion on everything I do feel its a little strong.
I competed at national level on the athletic track and had a very low % of body fat in my prime.I finished up racing and started having a family and have had a few medical issues during and as a result of my pregnancies. My diet is still healthy but due to motherhood and 2 sections I am to unable to shift the somewhat " dead muscles/fat". I now find myself in the public eye where my appearance is key and its also important to me. I have chosen liposuction to assist with this process. I have a personal trainer and have some sort of exercise programme 4 days a week so I am certainly not lazy, have a bad diet or have a generic disorder.What individuals choose to do is totally down to themselves and should never be condemned.

tallaght01

Dragan, you're comparing people who are grossly obese, and who have usually had years of other treatments, such as dietician clinics, exercise programmes, aswell as an amount of counselling, with peple who get themselves a bit pudgy, and sort it out in the gym.

There's a big difference between the two groups. The former group often have a real chance of death from their obesity. You can say they need a kicking if you want, but that's not helpful in someone who hasn't been able to shift their weight by other means. It's just being judgmental.

I never say to a homeless patient "well, it's your own fault. that Bill Cullen guy had nothing, and now he's loaded".

Weight loss surgery, when done properly and when done at the right time is life saving. Like I said before, it needs to be done in the context of a lot of counselling, and a degree of dietary weight loss. But these aren't magic answers.

The rold of genetics in weight gain hasn't been fully evaluated, but it looks like there is some link. It will only manifest itself in an environment where food is in plentiful supply. hence why comparisons with the population in the 1950s are not relevant.

Surgery is, sadly, what some people need. We can waste time judging them, but sometimes what they need is someone to just get in there and do what's needed.

Dragan

Starview wrote: »

My diet is still healthy but due to motherhood and 2 sections I am to unable to shift the somewhat " dead muscles/fat".

Without meaning to sound at all dismissive, as that it not how this will be meant, but that sentence alone would make me question your trainer. In my time i have worked with people who had every conceivable type of excuse/reason before they walked into the gym where i was lucky enough to be working at the time. A few months later they were in the physical condition they wanted to be.

Why? We worked them likes dogs. Really and truly. Not "built up a sweat" but i mean worked them to the point where they were asking to stop, to call the workout off early. I have seen a woman at the age of 49, finish a workout that i gave her as i stood there watching form and encouraging her that left a 25 year guy in the peak of his condition a gibbering mess half way in, with a smile on her face.

Why? Because she had been with us for a few months and he had been with us for a few weeks. Their is hard work and their is Hard Work.

To date, in my own experience of the industry, my own training and the hundreds and hundreds of clients i have come into contact with through both my own work and my collegues in that gym we have never seen anyone who has not reached their goals after the right combination of excercise, diet and effort have been found.

Some people will always change quickly, some people will always change slowly. But everyone should change. I'm not doubting your trainer at all i am simply saying that depending on how long you are working with them and your results in that time you may want to have a look around at a better investment for your time and money.

There are many amazing trainers in this city who don't go around with flashy advertising and slogans. They are just slogging it out with their clients day in day out.

Once again, just some advice to look at how long you are working with this person and how much you have paid them.

Starview wrote: »

I now find myself in the public eye where my appearance is key and its also important to me. I have chosen liposuction to assist with this process. I have a personal trainer and have some sort of exercise programme 4 days a week so I am certainly not lazy, have a bad diet or have a generic disorder.What individuals choose to do is totally down to themselves and should never be condemned.

And once again with all due respect, their is a pretty huge difference between opting for Lipo as you have, and gastric bypass surgery which is what this discussion is about.

Lipo in a way i can understand but still feel it is a poor option over other better, more healthy alternatives.

To be honest it simply saddens me that being in the public eye means you need to be something other than what you are at this moment in time.

Dragan

tallaght01 wrote: »

Dragan, you're comparing people who are grossly obese, and who have usually had years of other treatments, such as dietician clinics, exercise programmes, aswell as an amount of counselling, with peple who get themselves a bit pudgy, and sort it out in the gym.

There's a big difference between the two groups.

But the simple fact is that at some point in their lives the obese were not obese, they were normal, then overweight, then heavily overweight, then obese.

If i am being mean or judging people who are heavy then it is only because i was once myself and told myself all those same bull**** excuses. If i had never made chances i imagine i would be very obese. I was the best part of 22 stone when i got back to the gym.

Surgery is, sadly, what some people need.

This i already said in my previous post, from a life saving point of few i completely see the point of it, for just plain cosmetic purposes gastric bypass surgery disgusts me as an option. That is just my opinion.

tallaght01

I should hope that it's rarely performed for anything but life saving reasons. You certainly won't get it done on the public service for cosmetic reasons. There's usually very strict criteria that have to be met before you're eligible.

I wold imagine only the most money-mad cosmetic surgeon would do it for non medical reasons, too. Are people performing this surgery for cosmetic reasons??

For the people who actually need this surgery, talking about the gym is unrealistic. Walking around the house is a big a workout as they can usually tolerate. Their heart rate would go dangerously high if you pushed them tot he point of exhaustion, unfortunately. There is a role for a graded exercise plan, though, which should be supervised very carefully by physios and doctors.

quietobserver

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

Not sure where to put this so feel free to move it mods! It's not really diet or fitness so I was a bit stumped...

I was wondering what your general thoughts were on weight loss surgery ~ i.e. the band, gastric bypass etc?

Do you think it's a 'cop-out'. Something that you see as the 'easy way out' to weight loss?

If someone you knew/loved told you they were getting one of these procedures what would you think of them??

personally i see them as definately not the first step in weight loss. first steps have to start with a change of mindframe, the action to change, firstly as most people do they start to think about being of lesser weight, the action to change comes next, they can be very severe procedures and if a person isnt willing to change their lifestyle the effects of such procedures can very easily be reduced or cancelled out.

initially a change to healthier eating and the take up of some fun forms of physical activity should be the first step if and when this becomes a habit then this should be built on, i would be of the opinion that at the very least a year down the line of a good change of lifestyle might it be an idea to even consider such surgeries and even then i would be very cautious

then again this is only my opinion.

The Sweeper

Just a note on the 'olden days versus today' argument - the sort of food we have now wasn't available 50 years ago, not at the same level of processing, the number of calories or the incredibly wide selection of high calorie, processed foods.

I have an intricate relationship with food - I love to cook. I find the more effort I put into cooking fantastically satisfying food, the less of it I need to eat to feel utterly satisfied. I love to have a glass of wine or a beer with my food. I could never diet, because I just love my food too much. Cooking is my hobby.

Saying that, my BMI sits pretty steady at around 24, so I'm not overweight (I've actaully lost about 10lbs since I started cooking entirely for myself and stopped eating takeaway even twice a week.)

Being so close to food, I can visualise precisely what morbidly obese people have to be shovelling into themselves every day into order to get to that size. You'll often find, for instance, that they drink fizzy drinks instead of water. I believe there's around 800 calories in a 2-litre bottle of coke.

Refined and processed foods can be calorie minefields if you don't read the labels. I can remember buying a chicken pasta salad in Dunnes or somesuch when I was in Dublin. One pack would have been a large, dinner-sized serving for one person, and as such the pack was split into two serving sizes (once you read the label). If I was hungry and it was my main meal, I'd get through the whole pack myself. No worries. So there I am, munching my way through my chicken pasta salad one day, and I start reading the label. Single pack: 1,450 calories.

It is possible these days to put on a vast amount of weight without eating a massive volume of food - far more so than it would have been 50 years ago - because these days we have the technology to render fats and blend them with cheap food because fat tastes good.

I wouldn't eat like this myself, but I can see how easy it would be for someone who doesn't know better to consume, for instance, a blueberry muffin and a large full-fat latte for breakfast, that pasta salad for lunch, a two litre bottle of coke during the day and a nukeable microwave meal in the evening and easily ring in nearly 4,000 calories in a day without thinking they'd eaten very much. Add a chocolate bar treat and a packet of crisps and you're digging your grave with your teeth.

Sleepy

I have to say I don't understand how people can let themselves get that fat in the first place. I'm over my ideal weight myself and have never come near my physical prime but in my defense, I'm a medically healthy weight and I'll never be that overweight because when my weight becomes an issue I watch what I put into my mouth and I get my lardy arse into the gym and have been that gibbering mess Dragan referred to in his posts (First time I worked out with D. I puked my guts up after).

Obtaining one's ideal weight (if the ideal is to be considered what we see in magazines, movies etc.) is as simple as eating properly all the time, lifting weights three times a week and moving a lot but very few people have the willpower to achieve this. Maintaining a healthy weight, however, is both simple and easy: eat healthy most of the time and move about a bit.

The problem is, people are lazy. MAJD's point is very true - modern food is hugely over-processed and calorie laden as a result. However, I've still no sympathy for the morbidly obese, they've let themselves get like this and it gauls me to think that any health service would waste tax revenue trying to save their lives when they haven't even gone to the effort of finding out what was making them fat and dealing with it a long time before things got that far.

Sure it doesn't help that women's magazines advertise things like "cocktail diets", Men's Health has "get rock hard abs in 3 weeks" on it's cover and the media in general will provide free advertising for dangerous/faddy diets like Atkins, The Cabbage Soup diet etc. How this is legal (nevermind the fact that things like lipotrim can be sold) is beyond me. But even in the face of all that, I've still no sympathy. We live in the information age. It is incredibly easy to garner all the information one needs to prevent yourself becoming a lard bucket. This thread alone has virtually everything you need to know: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054876750 and if that one doesn't, this has the rest: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054886861 and if you still have a question after that, there's plenty of places to get the answer ranging from google to posting a thread here.

There's no excuse for being morbidly obese. None. Whatsoever.

The human race is starting to devolve. We need to let these idiots die off before they can procreate.