Weight Loss Surgery?

Curvy Vixen

Not sure where to put this so feel free to move it mods! It's not really diet or fitness so I was a bit stumped...

I was wondering what your general thoughts were on weight loss surgery ~ i.e. the band, gastric bypass etc?

Do you think it's a 'cop-out'. Something that you see as the 'easy way out' to weight loss?

If someone you knew/loved told you they were getting one of these procedures what would you think of them??

Babette08

It depends really on the severity of the case – if the person is in serious danger health wise.

I really do think it’s a rather extreme measure though and something that should only be done as a last resort. From the cases I’ve heard of on TV etc. anyone who has gone ahead with it has exhausted all the usual options, including psychological help.

Until any of us were in a situation where a procedure that could kill us was the only option, as we see it, for future health and happiness, then it’s hard to form an opinion. I’d never judge someone I knew for doing it but would just hope that they would try the traditional methods first.

MooseJam

Having your stomach stapled to stop you from stuffing yourself is shocking, good diet and exercise is the best route to a slim figure, it's a big cop out and you will never be able to eat a proper meal again - ever

There is a thread on this here........http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055071821

Gastric bypasses scare the hell out of me. Aren't they irreversible?

I look at radical things like lipotrim and surgery as the most difficult ways to lose weight. I think it is a creul way to do it.

I wouldn't go through something like that unless my life was in danger, and until I knew that I had a handle on the cause of my weight gain.

People are always going to have negative opinions about weight loss. Even small losses. I think you have to be prepared to ignore these types.

Quality

I would be terrified if I heard someone I knew was having one. It is a very serious operation to have.

It is not an easy way out at all. People put their lives at risk having this operation. My cousins friend died in one of these operations about 2 years ago.

Curvy Vixen

Thanks for that link Moonbaby ~ hadn't sen it on an earlier search.

I am fascinated by the amount of people who feel that this is an easy option. It's so far from easy. I'm also amazed by those that say, eat less, cycle, run etc. Do they not think that the overweight person may not have already tried those routes? Assuming that at 20 odd stone (or whatever) that they could actually manage to do that.

Seraphina

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

I'm also amazed by those that say, eat less, cycle, run etc. Do they not think that the overweight person may not have already tried those routes? Assuming that at 20 odd stone (or whatever) that they could actually manage to do that.

nope, from my experience, anyone getting these operations CLAIMS to have exhausted all other routes and exercise does nothing and i have a slow metabolism, when really they're just lazy and eating junk.

i've seen a number of tv programmes in which vastly overweight people continue to eat their normal diet of ****e and soda, with the reasoning that 'the surgery will sort it out'. its a cop out for lazy people.

diet and exercise work. you are not unique and immune to its effects, you're just not trying hard enough.

Curvy Vixen

Just curious seraphina ~ do you base that on medical knowledge or is it a personal opinion?

justsomebloke

*NB I'm male and I post in the fitness forum so bare that in mind before reading this*

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

I am fascinated by the amount of people who feel that this is an easy option. It's so far from easy

I would have to say that I would also say that it is taking the easy way out. You are taking the personnel responsibility for having to say "No" away form yourself. Is it easy no but it is probably a lot easier then effort you would have to put in to losing the wait and being accountable to yourself to what you put in your body for what would be a extended period i.e. measured in years not months

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

I'm also amazed by those that say, eat less, cycle, run etc. Do they not think that the overweight person may not have already tried those routes?

yes chances are they probably did try varying methods but there own lack of discipline is the reason they failed. All the gastric band will do will limit the size of the food you can put in your system it is no different to you learning to say no I have had enough. It is a magical cure it is just one way of limiting the amount of calories you put in your system. You could do the exact same with diet and exercise without having to go through the process of surgery.

Ok on another side as I said at the start of the thread I post in the fitness forum and this has given me a insight into what people classify as a healthy diet and more often then not these plans are hopeless and would generally leave people in the position of losing lean body mass while dieting. It is this loss of LBM that can lead to people putting on more fat once then they lost when they go back to eating "normally"

So I would be interested in hearing what healthy eating and exercise plans you have gone through before hand. As going to a decent nutrionist and personnal trainer may be money better spent. Also depending on your relation with food a psychologist maybe able to address any personnel reasons for over eating.

tallaght01

Seraphina wrote: »

nope, from my experience, anyone getting these operations CLAIMS to have exhausted all other routes and exercise does nothing and i have a slow metabolism, when really they're just lazy and eating junk.

i've seen a number of tv programmes in which vastly overweight people continue to eat their normal diet of ****e and soda, with the reasoning that 'the surgery will sort it out'. its a cop out for lazy people.

diet and exercise work. you are not unique and immune to its effects, you're just not trying hard enough.

How many people can you possibly know who've had that surgery???

It ain't an easy way out. I've seen it work well for people who've had it done. I once worked in a surgical unit where we did them.

Weight loss relies on a pretty complex interplay of factors. It's as much to do with dealing with depression, self-esteem and general happiness as it is with the right food and right fitness regimes.

It's definitely not right for everyone. It's only right for a small few punters. It has it's place, in a tiny corner of the weight loss world.

But people who are so overweight that they need it shouldn't be judged. They should be supported.

It's a definite "discuss with a surgeon for about a year before making a decision on it" type of thing, IMO.

Seraphina

tallaght01 wrote: »

How many people can you possibly know who've had that surgery???

i dont know them personally, tis to do with somewhere i've done filing/record keeping for, personal profiling etc is done during consultation. aaaaannnnywhoooo

as jsb said, what people class as eating healthy/exercising is PATHETIC and wouldn't keep a 10 year old fit. people need education and a bit of sweat, not ****ing surgery.

Babette08

Babette08 wrote: »

if the person is in serious danger health wise.

I would agree and I think counseling for the underlying issue should be mandatory, initially and ongoingly for a few years so the problem doesn't come back

cuckoo

Tbh, my off the top of my head opinion is that it's very scary. Anything that involves a general anaesthetic is a Big Deal - i've had surgeries in the past and found getting over the anaesthesia took a good few weeks.

TV drama hospital land makes surgery look like nothing, the patient/actor is smiling an hour later and everythings all better.

I don't think it's something that should be considered at all lightly - but, i'm just an internet randomer, so my opinion has only the value of the pixels on the screen.

Actually, thinking of tv drama land, wasn't there a story line on Greys Anatomy about it? Teenage girl had a dodgy version of stapling done in Mexico, or somewhere, and would have life long consequences? Again, the cameras were focusing on the gorgeous doctors, so we didn't see much of the realities of the surgery, but i don't think i'd watch if we got to see infected wounds, etc!

Wibbs

jsb wrote: »

yes chances are they probably did try varying methods but there own lack of discipline is the reason they failed. All the gastric band will do will limit the size of the food you can put in your system it is no different to you learning to say no I have had enough. It is a magical cure it is just one way of limiting the amount of calories you put in your system. You could do the exact same with diet and exercise without having to go through the process of surgery.

Nail on the head.

So I would be interested in hearing what healthy eating and exercise plans you have gone through before hand. As going to a decent nutrionist and personnal trainer may be money better spent. Also depending on your relation with food a psychologist maybe able to address any personnel reasons for over eating.

A much better plan though that would take hard work and personal responsibility. While I agree surgery is not an easy way out considering the risks, it is if successful a quick fix by comparison to what jsb suggests.

tallaght01

I'm amazed that there are people here who think that a reputable surgeon will do this op before there has been counselling, and attempts at more conventional weight loss.

I'm also amazed at the simplicity with which many people think grossly obese people can change their body habitus.

We don't tell alcoholics to just give up the drink. We don't tell those addicted to heroin to just stop taking it.

Similarly, we can't just chase the tail of never ending dieting ad infinitum. Sometimes more serious action is required. Tha rarity of the procedure (most people know some fat people, but most people won't know anyone who's had weight loss surgery) shows how seriously it's taken.

I'm also amazed that people think that the grossly obese people who make it as far as the operating theatre, aswell as their medical teams, are unaware of the links between calorie intake and weight gain.

It's definitely not an easy way out. Not only are there the risks of the op (just having the anaesthetic for someone who's that overweight is even dangerous) and the stay in ICU afterwards, but there are the short term risks (like wound healing probs, metabolic probs) and the long term probs (gallstones etc). The last adult patient I met who had it done was a lovely woman. But she was in and out of hospital with side effects for months after the surgery, like a yoyo.

But the surgery, along with continued dietary input, a graded fitness regime and good nursing, saw her lose a shed load of weight.

The last kid I met in this situation was a real sad case. About 12 years old. HUGE. I forget how heavy he was, but he had diabetes, high cholesterol, and reduced lung function because of his weight. I would stay behind work every day to go and play basketball with him in the play area. The dieticians and the physios tried everything they could. But the point came whereby he neded the surgery or he would have died.

It works for a lot of people. But,of course, there are failures. But there's a lot of ignorance about obesity out there.

Lux23

Seraphina wrote: »

i dont know them personally, tis to do with somewhere i've done filing/record keeping for, personal profiling etc is done during consultation. aaaaannnnywhoooo

as jsb said, what people class as eating healthy/exercising is PATHETIC and wouldn't keep a 10 year old fit. people need education and a bit of sweat, not ****ing surgery.

I completely disagree with that. Over the last 18 months ive lost four stone and I am currently grappling with the last ten pounds or so which don't want to go as far I can see. I have been dieting non stop since January and Ive lost a pound!!! I hate the gym but ive gotten that desparate that ive actually joined one in the last month, its working a little but I really find it difficult. Its hards work to maintain your weight nevermind lose it so for some who are say 10-15 stone overweight, weightloss surgery may be their only option. Unless you have followed a weightloss programme for more than a year or so you will never be able to comprehend how hard it is do this.

And just because you have done some nosing in personal medical files, it doesn't make you a doctor.

Jules

Very interesting topic but please keep it civil.

ztoical

Everything in context as they say - the people I've seen featured on tv going for this op fall under two sections - morbidly obese people i.e. someone whose 30+ stone, who is no longer able to get out of bed, needs to have the side of their house demo'd in order to get them out, and are pretty much going to die if something extreme isn't done soon. For them there is a very high risk from the operation due to their weight and only a handful of places will take the risk and do the operation for them.

Its very easy to judge these people and say o its all just down to will power and not being lazy, get off your fat ass and work out but there are alot of other factors that can effect someones weight. For example my dad died suddenly in september [not due to weight before anyone asks] It was a massive shock for me and over the space of four months I piled on a shocking amount of weight [couple of stone] I didn't want to go out and deal with people and ate alot of take aways as I didn't go shopping for food. Now I started back to the gym in January and went back to eating like I did before september but the weight is coming off alot slower then it went on and it would be very easy to become discouraged and say feck it esp when your just walking home and some random dickhead young lad leans out the window of his friends little boy racer car and screams "O fatty *insert disgusting comment I won't repeat on here*"

The other group of people I've seen programs about are people who would be borderline overweight/obesse - I find the attitude of alot of these people to be very annoying - it really is an easy option for them. They wouldn't actually have to do as much as they think to shift the weight but they go on and on about the op being the only option left to them. There was one MTV show following a 17 year old looking to get his stomach stapled - the cameras followed him and he just ate and ate and ate and the parents did nothing - he really didn't seem to understand what the operation was going to do and just saw it as the easy option, he didn't know that he wouldn't be able to eat half of the foods he was eating, he seemed to think the fat would just vanish. Alot of places in the US have no issue doing this type of operation on these people as they are a lower risk as their weight isn't extremely high and they pay through the nose for it.

WindSock

It doesn't bother me what a person wants to do with themselves to make them feel better.

ztoical

WindSock wrote: »

It doesn't bother me what a person wants to do with themselves to make them feel better.

I think the issue with weight loss surgery is the same as boob jobs and drugs like viagra - they do have a place and do help certain people but if they became available for free on the health service would people still be supportive if their tax money was paying for it. Some people do need the above mentioned services but not everyone would be happy if a slightly overweight 16 year old was looking to get their stomach stapled via the health service.

allabouteve

On sky news last week or the week before and in the daily mail, it was reportedly found that genetics was 75- 85% responsible for obesity. For many people you can diet and exersize for all your worth and the results are still way inferior to a person with more favourable genetics.

My guess is that the people who think all fat people are lazy have a more sucessful experience of dieting due to more favourable genetic input. I am the only person in my large family who is tall and slim. Everyone else is short and round, and I know the efforts my sisters have put in to losing the weight. It ain't easy and it ain't sucessful most of the time.

Surgery might look like the easy way out, but how much would an obese person have to punish themselves the conventional way without sucess before anyone thought it wasn't easy? Dont sit in judgement, for many people its probably the only long term answer.

ntlbell

allabouteve wrote: »

On sky news last week or the week before and in the daily mail, it was reportedly found that genetics was 75- 85% responsible for obesity. For many people you can diet and exersize for all your worth and the results are still way inferior to a person with more favourable genetics.

My guess is that the people who think all fat people are lazy have a more sucessful experience of dieting due to more favourable genetic input. I am the only person in my large family who is tall and slim. Everyone else is short and round, and I know the efforts my sisters have put in to losing the weight. It ain't easy and it ain't sucessful most of the time.

Surgery might look like the easy way out, but how much would an obese person have to punish themselves the conventional way without sucess before anyone thought it wasn't easy? Dont sit in judgement, for many people its probably the only long term answer.

In 99.99999% of cases being overweight is down to one thing, taken in more calories than you use.

There's nothing magical or mystical about it. Whatever way you do it if you use more cal's than you consume you will loose weight regardless of genetics or anything else.

ztoical

allabouteve wrote: »

On sky news last week or the week before and in the daily mail, it was reportedly found that genetics was 75- 85% responsible for obesity. For many people you can diet and exersize for all your worth and the results are still way inferior to a person with more favourable genetics.

And the BBC and the Times have reported genectics has very little to do with obesity.... people hear what they want to hear - its not my fault I'm just big boned, I've got a lower metabolism then most, its all down to my genes etc etc..... most of the people think they've tired really hard to loose the pounds but in most cases they've tired a fad diet that worked while they were on it but the minute they went back to their bad eating habits the weight came back - they didn't make changes for life with their eating and they didn't combine it with a good work out plan. I'm not saying this as some know it all thin fitness nut - I'm fat but I'm fat cus I ate too much of the wrong things and didn't work out enough.

People are fat cus they eat more then they burn off - the question shouldn't be why are they fat but rather why do they eat so much - for some its comfort, for others its boredom, and for alot of people they actually don't eat much but they eat all the wrong things - lots of people aren't aware whats in alot of the food we eat or the correct amounts we should be eating. We're living on ready made meals and prepacked foods and take aways.

Peared

What I find mad is that (sometimes) these are people who say they have tried everyting to lose weight and nothing but nothing works. They cant even lose a few pounds off their 30 stone frame.

Then they get told they need to lose x amount of weight to get gastric band surgery, the "miracle" cure.

And kablamo, they lose a few stone.

Dudess

That programme The 34 Stone Teenager was heartbreaking. She was 19 years of age. How could a person get to that weight by only 19? For most of those years she wasn't the food preparer or buyer. And even if she did spend the day stuffing her face... plenty of teens do that and don't get to 34 stone.
In order to reach a healthy weight she had to lose at least two thirds of her body weight - I get hungry just thinking about that. I can understand why she opted for gastric band surgery. At the same time though, being so young it wouldn't be impossible for her to just follow a healthy eating and exercise plan.

Mr. Presentable

It's effectively cosmetic. Without discipline, exercise and will power it is a temporary solution. If you can't be bothered, and the truth is, that's mostly it - yes I know there's a case in wherever of someone who, etc - but we are talking generally here - then in the long run it won't do you any good and won't do the tax payer any good.

Mr. Presentable

Dudess wrote: »

That programme The 34 Stone Teenager was heartbreaking. She was 19 years of age. How could a person get to that weight by only 19? For most of those years she wasn't the food preparer or buyer. And even if she did spend the day stuffing her face... plenty of teens do that and don't get to 34 stone.
In order to reach a healthy weight she had to lose at least two thirds of her body weight - I get hungry just thinking about that. I can understand why she opted for gastric band surgery. At the same time though, being so young it wouldn't be impossible for her to just follow a healthy eating and exercise plan.

It's pure and simple child abuse.

Mr. Presentable

allabouteve wrote: »

On sky news last week or the week before and in the daily mail, it was reportedly found that genetics was 75- 85% responsible for obesity. .

Really!!!
Have genetics changed that much in the last 30 years? In the 1920's 30's 40's 50's 60's 70's 80's there were so few obese people in Ireland you could count them on one hand. Obesity has increased hugely in the last few years.

I know, link me the study you refer!

MooseJam

It's all down to McDonalds if you ask me

WindSock

ztoical wrote: »

I think the issue with weight loss surgery is the same as boob jobs and drugs like viagra - they do have a place and do help certain people but if they became available for free on the health service would people still be supportive if their tax money was paying for it. Some people do need the above mentioned services but not everyone would be happy if a slightly overweight 16 year old was looking to get their stomach stapled via the health service.

I don't agree with having free weight loss surgery available for anyone and everyone. Extreme cases, perhaps. I'm just simply saying if someone wants to get it done, I wouldn't condemn them for their choice. I certainly wouldn't pay for it though.

allabouteve

http://http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=448290&in_page_id=1770

nipplenuts wrote: »

Really!!!
Have genetics changed that much in the last 30 years? In the 1920's 30's 40's 50's 60's 70's 80's there were so few obese people in Ireland you could count them on one hand. Obesity has increased hugely in the last few years.

I know, link me the study you refer!

New research has found a common gene, named FTO, found in millions of Britons could be largely responsible for exploding rates of obesity. People with two copies of the gene are almost 70% more at risk of being obese than those having none, and three kilograms heavier on average. The new findings, which estimates 16% of the population has the gene, is the first research to identify a common, population-wide genetic link to obesity.

it's linked above. Why the sarcasm?