The female push up problem

wahlrab

yesterday i was doing some push ups with a group and all the girls did the knee push ups, when I asked why they weren't doing them properly i got all this ****e about damage to their ovaries etc etc now i have read here before that it is a myth that push ups can cause females such damage or i believe i read that here, I couldn't find the previous thread.

anyhow i am trying to find an academic journal article which deals with this question, could anyone help? I have access to plenty of academic search engines through college but so far my searches have been fruitless, thanks

Hanley

The journal of common sense would be a great place to start!!

I would imagine a quick search on something like PubMed would tell you if there has been any studies done to prove it. If there hasn't been any done to specifically prove that pushups cause womens ovaries to fall out then surely that would be good enough?

If all else fails, point at them and laugh. Tell them you have a bridge for sale. You might finally find a buyer!!

wahlrab

Hanley wrote: »

If all else fails, point at them and laugh.!!

This is probably the best option, peer pressure is victorious once again:D

lolo2

"Anatomy for Dummies" maybe? Man I'm harsh today! My ovaries must be in bits so.

wahlrab

to be honest i just want some solid evidence so i can be like, ha ha i was right you were wrong

Hanley

wahlrab wrote: »

to be honest i just want some solid evidence so i can be like, ha ha i was right you were wrong

Ask them how many women that they personally know who's ovaries have gone AWOL while doing full pushups.... I'd say you'll be hard pressed to find a study which shows it tbh. It's the sort of thing any rational person should cop on to like!

davyjose

Just give them some chocolate cake and a Sex and the City box-set and let them do what they like.

po0k

They are being delicate little flowers.
Say nothing, let them waste their time.

Lil' Smiler

They probably find it hard to support themselves in full push ups, i know i do!!
Just giving excuses really, probably feel better that they can do 50 on their knees rather than 15 full

xebec

Just did a (very) quick search on PubMed using the terms push-up and ovaries (and a few variations), guess how many articles were returned? None.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Its nothing to do with just overies, its to do with a woman's whole pelvic floor.

While I never researched it, I don't have to (cause I'm a man) its how push-ups are done for females in the defence forces (I'm a soldier).

My feelings on it are its best to err on the side of caution esp. as a woman gets older, pre-puberty or after childbirth or is otherwise unfit.

For a fit and strong female I'd say its up to the individual but I would advise the individual to look into why females are recommended these modified push-ups.

Hanley

Does that mean plank type exercises are a no no too? Since it's basically the same position that your body would hold in a pushup without the movement of the arms..

arybvtcw0eolkf

Whats a plank exercise?..

And honestly H, I can't even debate this as I don't know the science behind it. I just know in the Defence Forces the females (and over 40's males) have these modified push-ups.

Hanley

Mairt wrote: »

Whats a plank exercise?..

And honestly H, I can't even debate this as I don't know the science behind it. I just know in the Defence Forces the females (and over 40's males) have these modified push-ups.

Tis basically just holding this position



Alot of physios and trainers seem to use it with both men and women for ab exercises. I'd like to hear their thinking about why it's safe, but the same movement with your arms moving is dangerous!

To be honest, I think the real reason that women are recommended to do these is because the vast majority can't do one proper push up!!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Hanley wrote: »

To be honest, I think the real reason that women are recommended to do these is because the vast majority can't do one proper push up!!

I've said that more than once myself, as females in the army also have modified times on their run's, sit-ups and terrain walks (a timed 10kms hike with a loaded pack).

trellheim

I posted about this on IMO recently. There is no evidence I could find [ and I did a long search ] re damage to reproductive organs. This is a myth in fact perpetuated by the modified pressups themselves and urban legend spreads.


Re any basis in fact at all, there were some "Modified Centre of Gravity" discussions which I could see the point behind.


However reduced pressups which would reduce this problem are usually fiddled so that the person doing them only bends from the hip, using a vertical Knee-Hip to reduce the weight which makes them trivial.


Any female athletes or PT Instructors [ serious, make their living off it in the private sector ] when questioned replied - "urban myth"

rubadub

wahlrab wrote: »

anyhow i am trying to find an academic journal article which deals with this question, could anyone help?

I seriously doubt you will find any. It would be like looking through geology journals to find studies confirming the earth is not flat. It is a ridiculously absurd idea, so why would somebody fund researching it.

As I said in another thread, are there really women out their gossiping "ye know Mary down the road, I know why she has no kids, did a pushup once."

its how push-ups are done for females in the defence forces

And this makes perfect sense to me. Do they get you all to do them at the same time? Women naturally have less upper body strength, so it would be unreasonable to expect them to do the same amount as a man. Pushups on the knees are easier so they do them. On their knees the average woman would probably on a par with the average man on his feet, so if you are all told to do 20 you can, men and women at the same rate.

On a marines site it was showing that women are not expected to do any pullups at all, and less pushups than men, to qualify. They do some arm hang thing rather than pushups.

wahlrab- a more interesting search would be comparative exercises for men and women. i.e. military PFT tests. This would show reasons behind it, and could have proper studies comparing knee and feet pushups and the REAL reason why women do them on their knees.

Lucky G'em isn't around to rip you limb from limb:D I think she was saying it should strengthen women in that region if anything.

Macha

As a female that does full push-ups when I can muster the strength, my main problem is a weak lower back. I can do quite a few but the next day my back tells me I shouldn't have been doing it.

Running Bing

Mairt wrote: »

Its nothing to do with just overies, its to do with a woman's whole pelvic floor.

While I never researched it, I don't have to (cause I'm a man) its how push-ups are done for females in the defence forces (I'm a soldier).

My feelings on it are its best to err on the side of caution esp. as a woman gets older, pre-puberty or after childbirth or is otherwise unfit.

For a fit and strong female I'd say its up to the individual but I would advise the individual to look into why females are recommended these modified push-ups.

My feelings on it are if I am being shot at in a war I would want to know the person beside me is of a basic level of fitness. Now if its not good enough for a man why should it be good enough for a women?

Women have longer to complete runs as well in the defence forces. I just find it ludicrous. When peoples life's are on the line there should be no comprimise.

RacoonQueen

As an instructor(and a woman). It's not that women who are 'recommended' to do the box/half push up, it's recommended to anyone who is unable to or uncomfortable with the full push up, I'd always say "we're going to go into push up's now" and demonstrate all three poses letting the participant/client chose which one they want to do. Never heard anything about the ovaries thing and it was never mentioned once while I was training I do the full push ups myself like.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Babybing wrote: »

Women have longer to complete runs as well in the defence forces. I just find it ludicrous. .

You, me & everyother man in the Defence Forces pal.

But gender equality in the Defence Forces is a whole different topic I'm afraid.

LouLou1

I'm just wondering why your bothered how women do push ups OP, why don't you just go to the gym and do your own workout and let others do theirs, get over yourself.

KiwiChick

LouLou1 wrote: »

I'm just wondering why your bothered how women do push ups OP, why don't you just go to the gym and do your own workout and let others do theirs, get over yourself.

People have to start somewhere and with all the myths and false info you couldn't blame some women for being cautious about doing proper push ups. It is fustrating seeing women doing push ups on their knees or doing an exercise that is far too easy but as long as it's not interfering with your training you then it shouldn't have an issue with it.

I have been doing iso push ups on a fitness ball the last few weeks and have found it's helped me with my back and balance my upper body. Holding it for 1 1/2 mins kills the arms and shoulders but it's more of a challange for sure.

cowzerp

The reason why press ups are done like that for women is because women generally are way weaker than men and struggle with pull ups press ups etc..if you can do them, do them.

the weight is not even on your "ovary area" when doing full press ups! its on the chest area and shoulders, this is 1 of those old wives tales that come out now and again!

the plank does hit the core muscles more but again its not going to do any harm to a healthy person-only good!

In general women can exercise the same as men apart from when there pregnant, obviously they will lift to suit there own strenght just like all people do.

samsamson

taconnol wrote: »

As a female that does full push-ups when I can muster the strength, my main problem is a weak lower back. I can do quite a few but the next day my back tells me I shouldn't have been doing it.

Make sure you're not letting your waist cave in/dip/sag towards the floor during the push up, that could be hurting your lower back!

Macha

samsamson wrote: »

Make sure you're not letting your waist cave in/dip/sag towards the floor during the push up, that could be hurting your lower back!

Thanks - I have an arch in my lower back so it's probably a personal thing rather than a general female thing. Thanks for the advice! Normally my mind is just a ball of burning fire when I'm doing full push-ups but I'll try to remind myself of this through the fog of pain. OK they aren't that bad..

Now I'm more interested in pull-ups myself...the single pull-up still eludes me!

davyjose

Ask her how her ovaries feel

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wC-0tvn9sE4

I'm sorry but I'm just not buying it. If it were the case you would have heard a lot more reasoning behind it. The push-up is a very basic exercise, and were it dangerous (to anyone), you'd have heard.

rubadub

LouLou1 wrote: »

I'm just wondering why your bothered how women do push ups OP, why don't you just go to the gym and do your own workout and let others do theirs, get over yourself.

Perhaps he is mates with them and is just trying to set them straight

KiwiChick wrote: »

People have to start somewhere and with all the myths and false info you couldn't blame some women for being cautious about doing proper push ups.

Yes, and maybe he doesn't want this crazy myth to continue, lest women miss out on a fantastic exercise. Many men will start out on these too, then do full ones. Once you are past a certain amount you will want to try inclined ones if you are after muscle growth. Perhaps these women are able to lash out 50 or 100 on their knees but still worried about doing proper ones.

If it were the case you would have heard a lot more reasoning behind it.

Half the women out there would be infertile too...


Here is a good post from Colm. I asked him for videos but forgot about the thread, belated thanks Colm!

I think I asked him again in another thread and it had a video of them doing them with "cheating" methods. Can't find it now though.

Rogueish

OP that is a ball of crap! Full press ups and damage to the ovaries I have never heard of it before with 10years experience and a professional qualification in the field.

I teach women how to full press up. I start with box press ups, progressing to the knees, to eccentric full press ups (push downs) and then to a full eccentric and concentric pull up. I had a woman who could not even do a single box press up but 2 weeks ago completed her first full press up. Only one but it is a start! She was delighted with herself.

Scottty2Hottty

Rogueish wrote: »

OP that is a ball of crap! Full press ups and damage to the ovaries I have never heard of it before with 10years experience and a professional qualification in the field.

Yeah but I know a farmer who is outstanding in his field and he said women shouldn't do full press-ups

In seriousness I can't see how anyone could possibly believe that doing full press-ups could be damaging to women. It makes no sense logically or scientifically. Thats probably why you won't find research on it, it just wouldn't be worthwhile on any level.

KiwiChick

Maybe it is an excuse to be lazy?

What is a good amount of reps/sets for women to be doing, just curious to see if I'm anywhere near what I should be doing?

Lockstep

I never knew push ups helped the back. I always assumed they just worked the chest/triceps etc.


Doesn't really bother me about women doing modified push ups when it's for themselves. In boxing training we do circuit training in pairs. I was in a pair with a girl once, she's a great boxer but her training scheduel was modified to make it easier for her, despite me being fitter she's much better at the sport than I.

rubadub

KiwiChick wrote: »

Maybe it is an excuse to be lazy?

What is a good amount of reps/sets for women to be doing, just curious to see if I'm anywhere near what I should be doing?

Don't get too caught up in the numbers game. Stick with good form, and try and beat your last figure. Trying to outdo others can lead to "cheating"

I do find it interesting though, plenty of links to various PFTs (physical fitness standards), like marines, coastguard etc.
http://www.google.com/search?complete=1&hl=en&q=pushup+pft+standards+women&aq=f

Anything more than around 15 is really just training endurance. I aim for muscle growth so aim for 6-12reps. I incline my legs to acheive this, and can almost do a handstand one now.

KiwiChick

I checked out the Army PFT's, I think I'd almost manage what is needed to pass the test for my age. It's good for my own info.

I never see women in my gym doing push ups and sometimes you'd swear I had 2 heads because of some of the looks I get.
I do 5 sets of push ups to fail at the end of my lower body workout and the last went 22,20,18,13,10

Roper

Just quickly-

The thrust of the myth isn't that it damages the ovaries, its that it puts undue stress on the lower abdomen and might lead to womb damage.

To be fair, there may be some truth in that if a sedentary, unfit woman attempted a full push up and could do half of it. But I'd say it's equally likely she could damage ger shoulder or chest if she was unfit, assuming she could do enough of the push up for damage to become a remote possibility.

In heavy training, sometimes I will drop to my knees and do push ups from there because I've failed at the push-up stage, and doing supported push ups is better than doing none at all. It's an assistance exercise, just like any other. From a coaching point of view, I tell anyone, girls, fellas, to try to do full push ups until they fail and then to switch to supported ones.

Anyway, Urban Myth, probably spread by chinese whisper. Just like Area 51 or the guy who woke up in the ice bath with his liver gone or Jesus.

rubadub

Roper wrote: »

The thrust of the myth isn't that it damages the ovaries, its that it puts undue stress on the lower abdomen and might lead to womb damage.

To be fair, there may be some truth in that if a sedentary, unfit woman attempted a full push up and could do half of it. But I'd say it's equally likely she could damage ger shoulder or chest if she was unfit, assuming she could do enough of the push up for damage to become a remote possibility.

There should be similar myths for men so. But the fact is sterilization myths are more dramatic, like the one about people spiking drinks with horse sterilization pills.

the guy who woke up in the ice bath

That is true, a bloke in the pub told me.

wahlrab

thank you for all the replies. the reason i asked for information on a study was that these girls are in the same club as me and they won't just take my word that normal press ups are fine for them, these are physically fit women who should be doing proper press ups,

they won't even listen to instructors in the gym and nearly always say oh my god i don't wanna get all big and muscular at which point i sigh and start to tell them how that won't happen but my guess is that they'll only listen to what they want to hear, maybe it is a lost cause,

btw i wouldn't just go up to a randomer in the gym and start telling her to do full press ups this is a different type of situation, thanks again for the replies and interest in the topic

Hanley

The women you refer to are dzzzzzopes!! (meant in the nicest possible way). They seem to be more inclined to beleive urban myths and chinese whispers than facts and evidence.

Tell them that they have the burdon of proof and need to find a study to show to you that proves it's dangerous!

KiwiChick

wahlrab wrote: »

they won't even listen to instructors in the gym and nearly always say oh my god i don't wanna get all big and muscular at which point i sigh and start to tell them how that won't happen but my guess is that they'll only listen to what they want to hear, maybe it is a lost cause,

It is a lost cause! Been there, done that with friends or co-workers and they just won't have any of it.

You're better off doing your own workout and having the satisfaction of knowing that you are actually making an effort and going to get the results that the others want but won't get because of their lazy attitudes

cowzerp

2 words Lazy-Ignorant

lolo2

wahlrab wrote: »

btw i wouldn't just go up to a randomer in the gym and start telling her to do full press ups

i can picture it now ...

actually no, it would be funnier to go up to a woman doing full push ups and start roaring at her to mind her ovaries!!!

(Post Disclaimer: The above post does not advocate such actions, just joking!)

xebec

lolo2 wrote: »

actually no, it would be funnier to go up to a woman doing full push ups and start roaring at her to mind her ovaries!!!

Brilliant! I'm getting funny looks from other people in this computer room in college!

Reyman

This lad overcame the risks of press ups:

"The world record for most two-handed push back hand ups in one hour is 1,781 by Doug Pruden of Canada, 2005"