What's your ammo limit ?

Heckler

Does anyone know for sure if the Gardai check the log books of firearms dealers ? I've been offered tins of 500 .22 on my 100 round limit licence. Love to have taken it as its a pain in the arse to travel 30kms for 100 every few days. Only have the licence a short while so don't want to buck the system. Everyone I've spoken to so far says its not a problem......

Who would be in more trouble ? The dealer for selling or the shooter for buying ?

Whilst I always thought it was a silly restriction (as in if your up to mischief you could do a lot of damage with 100 rounds) t'was only while talking to a guy who shoots 9mm pistol with a 100 round limit yesterday that it made a bit of sense. His take was that while the criminals have no problem getting hold of illegal firearms its a lot harder to get ammunition. Hence the restriction on ammo so if you are burgalarised they won't get much. Not that 100 rounds isn't much in the eyes of the bad guys

Any thoughts ?

Regards,

Heckler

IRLConor

Heckler wrote: »

Who would be in more trouble ? The dealer for selling or the shooter for buying ?

My guess is the shooter.

The penalty for the shooter is:

If the firearm/ammunition is restricted:

1. on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, and
2. on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding €20,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years or both

If the firearm/ammunition is not restricted:

1. on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding €2,500 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, and
2. on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding €10,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.

The penalty for the dealer is not defined as far as I can see. It is an offence, but there doesn't seem to be a penalty specified. (At least not one I can find right now)

Heckler wrote: »

Whilst I always thought it was a silly restriction (as in if your up to mischief you could do a lot of damage with 100 rounds) t'was only while talking to a guy who shoots 9mm pistol with a 100 round limit yesterday that it made a bit of sense. His take was that while the criminals have no problem getting hold of illegal firearms its a lot harder to get ammunition. Hence the restriction on ammo so if you are burgalarised they won't get much. Not that 100 rounds isn't much in the eyes of the bad guys

Perhaps it makes sense with some ammunition which is highly desirable for criminals. Gives them less incentive to go robbing people for ammo.

On the other hand,

1. I find it hard to believe that ammunition is hard to come by. Surely if they can ship in drugs then they can ship in ammunition?
2. Criminals probably don't use that much ammunition. This means that to them, 100 rounds is loads.

Heckler

Harsh enough so !! But has anyone heard of the firearms dealers logs actually being checked ?

7 years for being over the limit ??? Wow. You would get less for murder. Country is messed up.

Regards,

Heckler

Sparks

But has anyone heard of the firearms dealers logs actually being checked ?

Yes, though not as a matter of course.

Sparks

Heckler wrote: »

You would get less for murder.

Manslaughter you mean. Murder carries a mandatory life sentence... :pac:

bigred

Heckler wrote: »

I've been offered tins of 500 .22 on my 100 round limit licence. Love to have taken it as its a pain in the arse to travel 30kms for 100 every few days.

Whatever about centerfire pistol ammo, the Gardai don't seem too bothered about the limits for airgun ammo (in general). Definitely drop in some evening with your licence and explain that most of what you can get comes in tins of 500. I went even further and showed them an empty sleeve that holds 10 tins of 500 and that it was common to buy an entire sleeve, and hence my limit is 5000!
The worst they can do is say no

bullets

Have seen the Gardai in at my local dealer looking at log books!
Same dealer says he will sell me what ever amount I want.

Goto other dealers for Shotgun Cartridges or goto clay shoots and nobody even
asks you for your licence at all. Its just how much do you want.

My Default was 100. for both my Rifle and Shotgun. I asked even before I even
had a firearm about getting it increased to something which I thought was resaonable
with was 500. And inquired at the time about the Euro Pass. Was told they didnt know
anything about the europass and that I could only have 100 Rounds.

I later applied for 500 rounds and I ended up having a house inspection and the super
only granted my 250 Rounds because I did not have an alarm.

So off I went and got an alarm and re-applied for 500 Rounds with a letter for the reasons I wanted that many (or that few depending on your viewpoint)

This ended up in 2 more house inspections. One for my Local FO who had already been out twice to me already! and one from the Local CPO who was wondering why he was being called out in the first place for such a request.

250 Rounds on my certs which was perfectly OK
yet 500 was not OK.............I just did not get the Logic!!!

~B

Our man in Havana

Dealers seem to be able to get around the 100 limit by putting down your big purchase over several days.

Sparks

A practice that would be strictly illegal, so no examples please - stating you've seen an identified someone doing this would be libel.

And for the record, I've watched at least two firearms dealers up close and they would never dream of doing something like that - they'd lose their licence at a minimum if caught and that's before the court appearance.

Scoogles

Scoogles wrote: »

My best buddy is a firearms officer, not my local one though unfortunately, he says the maximum in law is 100 for any shot gun or rifle, 50 for a farmers shotgun and 50 for every second shotgun you have, .

I may owe an apology to my pal, I misquoted him, at the mod said theres no reference in any legislation to maximum rounds with any licence. I asked him about it last night and he said its in what he kept referring to as the "guide" and the "code". This appears to be the manual that all firearms officers are to use in the country. He says its what the commissioner signed off on years ago. Its allegedly the maximum that any super or firearms officer can issue. The whole licencing procedure is outlined in it from proofs required (permissions of landowners or membership of gun clubs etc).

So its the maximum that the Guards are authorised to give you, without outlining a further need, this would explain why there seems to be alot of 50's and 100's on licences.

Sparks

Not sure what the heck he's on about there Scoogles, the Commissioner is not legally entitled to issue a directive like that to the Superintendents or the Firearms Officers, and that was laid out by the Supreme Court in Dunne v Donohue a few years ago.

The new Firearms Act does allow the Minister or Commissioner to issue directives, but that's only come in in the last year, and while there's been talk of a set of guidelines to be issued to Superintendents, nothing's come out yet.

Methinks that your mate is in the same boat as every other Super and FO - dumped in at the deep end with all the responsibility and liability but none of the backup or training; and all that on top of their normal job to boot. So whatever comes to hand or to mind gets used as a ruleset, and the authority of that source gets magnified out of all proportion

Scoogles

I think your spot on there Sparks, he does the firearms in between regular work and its not full time. Can't remember him ever saying he was trained. I know he doesn't use the guards gun either.

Theres alot of grey areas in not just the firearms acts but every law in Ireland where theres too much room for interpretation or lack of simple clarity. The firearms act outlines what a Super may or may not authorise a holder to do or carry or what an applicant may be entitiled to. It however then states that a Super would have to satisfy himself, lets keep this clean, as to the suitability of an applicant, grounds for application and also to the general security of the firearm etc etc etc, but it lays down no guidelines as to how they are to be satisfied. I think this code he's on about gives them a yardstick that they all work off so that every poor codger in the country gets an equal "shot " at it not just what some difficult Super wants and theres some equal playing field accross the garda areas.

bshev01

When i was renewing my shotgun cert a couple of weeks ago i decided i'd ask the guard on duty if i could get the limit increased. It was a young guard and she panicked but luckly the fo was just around the corner and she took him over to see if it was ok.

the fo is an absolute gent and i've met him on the range shooting a couple of times. I just said i'd always had 100 on my cert and felt it was a bit difficult to shoot clays and stay within my limit. he explained that the 100 limit was the default setting on the computers and that there sholudn't be a problem. He offered me an increase to 1000, which i thought was very generous. He then followed up by asking what my father had and also marked his renewal for an increase.

The fact that the man has an interest in shooting means that he has understanding of why we would need more than 100 shells.