Biceps twice a week

ICX

Hi All,

I would like to here some of your opionions on training biceps twice a week as I feel they are lagging behind compared with the rest of my
body.:(

I was thinking of maybe hard session Monday light session Thursday!

MattKid

People will think you're a bicep boy.

I very rarely do isolated arm exercises, I find a hard back workout and shoulder and chest workout hit my arms just fine. They are only small muscle groups compared to the rest.
You might find they aren't growing due to over training

Colm_OReilly

What's your current program? What are your aims overall, aside from giving directions to the beach?

WHIP IT!

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

What's your current program? What are your aims overall, aside from giving directions to the beach?

Heh Heh - that's some funny sh*t right there...

Dragan

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

What's your current program? What are your aims overall, aside from giving directions to the beach?

Colm,

I'm not a fan of this. Last time i checked the role of a Crossfit Trainer was not to be seen as arrogantly judging the goals of others which is exactly how this came across.

He clearly stated he wants bigger biceps, either answer the question or don't post in the thread.

Cheers.

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Heh Heh - that's some funny sh*t right there...

If you want funny then go to the Comedy Club, otherwise answer the question.

WHIP IT!

Dragan wrote: »

Colm,

I'm not a fan of this. Last time i checked the role of a Crossfit Trainer was not to be seen as arrogantly judging the goals of others which is exactly how this came across.

He clearly stated he wants bigger biceps, either answer the question or don't post in the thread.

Cheers.



If you want funny then go to the Comedy Club, otherwise answer the question.

Oh please - we're not all that sensitive here Pal... As Brendan O'Carroll likes to say: "F*ck ye if ye can't take a joke!"

Dragan

And as Dragan the Fitness Moderator says,

"See ya!"

ICX

Program looks like this;

Monday: Legs and biceps
Tue : Chest
Wednesday: soccer
Thursday: Shoulders
Friday: Back and Triceps
Saturday: Squash

All above body parts will have four exercises 5 x 5.
I'm 73Kg 5" 8 to give you an indication of current Pb's Squat 125 Kg's, Deadlift 140 Kg's, Bench 105kg's. Diet is pretty clean low carb high protein (approx 175grams).
Overall aim's build muscle get bf down (don't know current % but can see top two ab's)

Colm_OReilly

Dragan,

You've inferred an insult which I didn't imply. If I offended the OP, I apologise, it was not my intent - just trying to be a little humourous.

Ask to questioning his program and goals, we need to know if he's other goals which bicep work could potentially hinder his gains/progress or cause imbalances. We also need to know where best to fit them in.

Dragan

No problem Colm.

I figured there was nothing behind, simply pointing out the way it was coming across to me.

As for the answer the question bit that was aimed at Whip It, i just completely ballsed up my quotes, as per usual.

Sorry dude.

amazingemmet

What size are your arms now op? At 72kg they'll only get to about 15in you'll need to gain more overall size to get bigger arms simple really. Also your squat and dead are quite low relative to your bench

ICX

No offence taken Colm

Emmet you are correct 15in. Squat and dead are increasing week on week so im happy enough with that as for my bench, reached 100kg 1rm target 5 weeks ago and finding it very difficult to push more. Thinking of switching it up a bit tbh.

farva

I've got similar stats to yourself OP, I'm 5'6" and about 71Kg. I do biceps curls with the EZ bar 3 times a week - 4 sets of 8 reps @ about 45Kg (including the bar) and dumbell curls seated 4 sets of 8 reps @ 20.4kg (45lbs) 3 times week. Its possibley over training but I do have pretty big bieceps - don't know what size my arms are though.

And before I get stick for being a "biecep boy" - I do a lot of tricep/chest work too. I got 115kg on the bench last night:D

Hanley

You're doing well to have 15 inch arms at <75kg. How tall are you? Chances are you just need to start gaining more weight overall.

Oh and another tip I would give you that most people neglect is to measure you arms relaxed and flexed. If your relaxed measurement goes up half an inch over a month or two, but your flexed measurement stays the same, it's most likely that your triceps are growing and not your bi's.

aye

what do you currently do for your biceps?
what exercises?

they will get hit on the back also with all the pulling movements.

is there a reaon you work your triceps on the day you do your back (pulling), instead of the day you do your chest (pushing)?
nothing wrong with it, i'm just wondering.

Hanley

farva wrote: »

I've got similar stats to yourself OP, I'm 5'6" and about 71Kg. I do biceps curls with the EZ bar 3 times a week - 4 sets of 8 reps @ about 45Kg (including the bar) and dumbell curls seated 4 sets of 8 reps @ 20.4kg (45lbs) 3 times week. Its possibley over training but I do have pretty big bieceps - don't know what size my arms are though.

And before I get stick for being a "biecep boy" - I do a lot of tricep/chest work too. I got 115kg on the bench last night:D

You're not overtraining. 90% of people who talk about over traning are not over traning. You don't get overtrained by doing biceps 3x a week. If you're strength and the amount of weight you can handle on the exercise starts to decline then it might be time to changes things up.

Overtraining isn't an isolated thing that stops you being able to increase one exercise. It's a whole body thing that basically shuts you down on all exercises.

Black Swan

If biceps development is so important to you, why not work them every other day, skipping a day inbetween to recover?

Patto

Hanley wrote: »

You're doing well to have 15 inch arms at <75kg. How tall are you? Chances are you just need to start gaining more weight overall.

Oh and another tip I would give you that most people neglect is to measure you arms relaxed and flexed. If your relaxed measurement goes up half an inch over a month or two, but your flexed measurement stays the same, it's most likely that your triceps are growing and not your bi's.

So when someone says they have 15" arms does that mean relaxed or flexed?

ICX

Aye the reason I don't do triceps and chest together is so I can lift heavyer weight for triceps (after chest they would be smashed).

Currently doing;

1. EZ bar 5 x 5 @ 45Kg (including the bar)
2. dumbell curls seated 5 x 5 @ 22.5kg
3. Standing Hamer curl 5 x 5 @ 22.5kg

DB precher 20kg
or
Cable curls (drop set till faliure) .

aye

ICX wrote: »

Aye the reason I don't do triceps and chest together is so I can lift heavyer weight for triceps (after chest they would be smashed).

true but would you not be recruiting more muslce fibres in the tricpes then?
much like pre-exhaust training method?

Hanley

Patto wrote: »

So when someone says they have 15" arms does that mean relaxed or flexed?

Generally, unless otherwise specifed it means flexed.

aye wrote: »

true but would you not be recruiting more muslce fibres in the tricpes then?
much like pre-exhaust training method?

By being able to lift more weight with them is there not a greater potential to get stronger which should lead to being bigger? It's a two way street like. Neither of which is right or wrong.

Colm_OReilly

have you tried adding in chins/weighted chins to your program?

Regarding that EZ bar - your biceps are more fully engaged when your arm is suppinated rather than pronated.

I can't remember exactly why, but in the gospel according to Rip, he cites this as a reason why the EZ bar is less than optimal for bicep specific work. If anyone's interested, I'll dig up a quote later at home.

Reps - 5x5 is better suited to strength/size gains. You might want to consider higher reps (8-12) with shorter rest (~1min) for pure hypertrophy.

All this should come with the caveat that I don't do isolation work.

amazingemmet

ICX wrote: »

No offence taken Colm

Emmet you are correct 15in. Squat and dead are increasing week on week so im happy enough with that as for my bench, reached 100kg 1rm target 5 weeks ago and finding it very difficult to push more. Thinking of switching it up a bit tbh.

You need to add more mass all over really. I've been slowly gaining mass am up from 80kg before the summer to 92kg now and my arms have improved considerably and the only direct arm work I do is 3x8-10 or 3x5 of a curl variation on my upper body days. Same has happened with calves I can't remember the last time I done a calf raise but my calves are bigger now just from gaining weight all over.

aye

Hanley wrote: »

By being able to lift more weight with them is there not a greater potential to get stronger which should lead to being bigger? It's a two way street like. Neither of which is right or wrong.

yep i agree.
i was just wondering if there were advantages to pre exhausting it.

Hanley

aye wrote: »

yep i agree.
i was just wondering if there were advantages to pre exhausting it.

Of course there are.

Is there drawbacks? Of course there are.

Should one be exclusively use? Of course not!!

Pre-exhaustion isn't something I've ever given great thoguht to since I don't think it's that great for strength training, but I do do isolation work at the end of my sessions so I guess you could say that I'm sorta pre-exhausting.

Proper pre=exhaustion would be something interesting to try next time I have a free period before a comp tho.

ICX

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

have you tried adding in chins/weighted chins to your program?

Regarding that EZ bar - your biceps are more fully engaged when your arm is suppinated rather than pronated.

I can't remember exactly why, but in the gospel according to Rip, he cites this as a reason why the EZ bar is less than optimal for bicep specific work. If anyone's interested, I'll dig up a quote later at home.

Reps - 5x5 is better suited to strength/size gains. You might want to consider higher reps (8-12) with shorter rest (~1min) for pure hypertrophy.

All this should come with the caveat that I don't do isolation work.

Colm I normally do chin's on back day along with pull up's etc.
Might be a good idea to change back to (8-10) rep range to mix things up a bit. Confuse em eh

ICX

amazingemmet wrote: »

You need to add more mass all over really. I've been slowly gaining mass am up from 80kg before the summer to 92kg now and my arms have improved considerably and the only direct arm work I do is 3x8-10 or 3x5 of a curl variation on my upper body days. Same has happened with calves I can't remember the last time I done a calf raise but my calves are bigger now just from gaining weight all over.

Hem thats a fair bit weight you put on there.
How many extra caloires daily did you eat?
What way are your ab's?

amazingemmet

ICX wrote: »

Hem thats a fair bit weight you put on there.
How many extra caloires daily did you eat?
What way are your ab's?

Just as a reference I was at 85kgish and cut down to 80kg for the holiday so a lot of the gains was just muscle memory. At the moment I have a six pack not an amazing one but you can see all my abs when standing straight and relaxed.

On the cals front I'm on a 35-40hrs a week acorbatic training course plus whatever I do in the gym so my maintenace is pushing 4000 cals a day. I'm eating about 4500-5000 at the mo and gaining slowly and steadly. Though just for reference I'm really anal about my diet only eat good food and use supplements as much as possible at the right time.

Imo most people don't really understand what the body is capable once you get all the pieces into place. I used to think I was a hard gainer when i first started trying to get bigger, then I started doing everything right and now I'm covince I'm actually an easygainer

Transform

I would have the same progress as amazingemmet and agree with all he said- Current weight 91kg up from 78kg a year ago.

I would consider doing weighted chins the best bicep builder - now up to 20kg for 5 sets of 5reps and maxing at 35-40kg for one rep.

I never split up body parts as i find it does not work in the long run and find it boring.

Bigger arms need a bigger frame so keep building the squat and DL along with decent chins.

No need to worry about extra calories - traing hard and the apetite will take care of it.

Body fat consistently between 5-6% using calipers.

Mikel

If you want big arms then squat and deadlift

Hanley

Mikel wrote: »

If you want big arms then squat and deadlift

If you want to read a cliche response....

I'm always amused at all these people who shun isolation exercises. Over reaction in the short term, under reaction in the long term.

Listen, if you want to improve am muscle group, you NEED to train them. Saying squat and deadlift adds nothing. If you had said rows or pulldowns there MIGHT have been some legitimacy in the post, but the above lacks it.

I KNOW that at 100kg I had arms smaller than guys 10-15kg less than me, and I was squatting and deadlifting more than them. How do you explain that?

rubadub

Hanley wrote: »

Generally, unless otherwise specifed it means flexed.

Yep, it is like people posting how much they can lift, and then people asking how many reps is that for. If they meant multiple reps they would state it.

I was looking at those grecian ideal calculators again, and one was saying unflexed, I thought it odd at first, but it makes sense. It presume it was based on statue measurements, where they might not be in a flexed pose.

Mikel

How much muscle would I have to put on my body to add 2" to my arms?
what would be the most effective way of doing this?
I didn't say don't train them, but the majority of effort should surely be focused where you will get the greatest effect.

Gyms everywhere are full of guys curling twice a week. You tell me, would they be better off toning it down and doing compound exercises.
Which exercises are most likely missing from his routine?

Most of the advice above is cliched.
Just because it's a cliche doesn't make it wrong.

If you had said rows or pulldowns there MIGHT have been some legitimacy in the post, but the above lacks it.

I didn't realise you were the sole arbiter of legitimacy, maybe I should have run it by you first.

:rolleyes:

jumbopalumbo

Haven't read all the posts but in my opinion, ders nothin wrong with tryin to train any body part twice a week for a while, make sure to do different excercises or at least different rep ranges and rests, remember back in the 50s 60s 70s it was d norm to train d whole body 3 times per week and these days Branch Warren has trained weaker body parts twice per week but u really have to ensure proper nutrition if ur goin to do it

Degsy

In my experience(17.5 inch arms @ 90k),standing barbell curls builds biceps like nothing else.Twice a week will do no harm at all and i reckon its very difficult indeed to "overtrain" arms.

Hanley

Mikel wrote: »

I didn't realise you were the sole arbiter of legitimacy, maybe I should have run it by you first.

:rolleyes:

I never said that I was the guardian of all things legitimate, but for future reference when you say something as profoundly incorrect as that then expect me to call you on it. I might p!ss alot of people off by doing this, but I only do it to attempt to stop all the mis-information that's out there. There's enough fitness myths put forward by the general public without new myths being created on a fitness forum that alot of people read.

I don't know if you bothered to read any of the intelligent arguments for and against isolation movements in this thread before you posted, but I think they sum up my position nicely. For further clarification, nowhere did I say not to squat or deadlift to add overall mass. In fact I explicitly said the OP has done well to get arms that size at his weight and it might be time to gain more weight overall.

As an aside, but still relevant, ignoring a muscle group, ANY muscle group is setting yourself up for an injury down the road. Just because some people might think they're hardcore and don't need to train biceps to get them doesn't neccessarily mean they don't need to be trained at all. An example of my own, I don't care about bicep size and train them infrequently. The result? Elbow problems. Since working on my biceps and forearms the pain has gone away.

To clarify my position, yes you need to add size overall to make siginifcant gains on bicep size. But in doing so to fully maximise the size of your guns they must also be trained. You might add an inch for every 10kg of bodyweight you add and not have to train them, but this doesn't neccessarily mean you've maxed out your arms growth potential at a certain bodyweight. Hell at 100kg I could easily support arms over 17 inches, but I don't have them. Why not? Because I don't train them hard enough. I could probably have 18 inch arms at my weight. I could just go to 110 and get them, but what's the point, relatively they're not going to look as big as they would if I was to add an inch at my current bodyweight.

I'm sure you already know this, but one of the most important things about bodybuilding is the appearance of size. If someone has X inch arms at Y weight but doesn't train them, then you can be certain he could have X+? arms at the same weight and look better as a result.

Hanley

Degsy wrote: »

In my experience(17.5 inch arms @ 90k),standing barbell curls builds biceps like nothing else.Twice a week will do no harm at all and i reckon its very difficult indeed to "overtrain" arms.

Jesus Degsy, how tall are ya?? Like 3 foot???

ICX

Hey all thanks,
great advise given, so what I need to do is add size overall.. A clean bulk and train harder than ever :eek:

Degsy

Hanley wrote: »

Jesus Degsy, how tall are ya?? Like 3 foot???

WTF?

Al_Fernz

Hanley wrote: »

I KNOW that at 100kg I had arms smaller than guys 10-15kg less than me, and I was squatting and deadlifting more than them. How do you explain that?

Genetics? Some people are just born lucky I guess.

However, I've seen a lot of curl jockeys around my gym with fairly impressive arm mass - and I've never seen any of them squat and deadlift.

Degsy

A lot of the eastern europens in my gym spend most of thier time curling and otherwise working arms and they all have huge guns.If you want big arms,work 'em.

Hanley

Degsy wrote: »

WTF?

Your arms are quite large for your weight like. I assumed that since they were that size you would have to be less tall than the average ya know?? Like same amount of weight on a 5 foot guy and a 5'10 guy, who's gonna look bigger??

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Genetics? Some people are just born lucky I guess.

However, I've seen a lot of curl jockeys around my gym with fairly impressive arm mass - and I've never seen any of them squat and deadlift.

Nah... it's not genetics. I don't train my arms as much as they would so I can hardly use that as a cop out.

rubadub

Hanley wrote: »

Nah... it's not genetics. I don't train my arms as much as they would so I can hardly use that as a cop out.

You said you can deadlift more than lads with bigger arms than you. I am not surprised, you train for powerlifting, probably have more muscle mass all over, more "real" muscle anyway. Since you are in a weight division are you training for just strength? while consciously not trying to put on weight?

A 100kg powerlifter is going to be able to move more than a 100kg bodybuilder.

I did wonder if many amateur powerlifters are just doing it as something extra alongside their bodybuilding. i.e. they want to get big and just do competitions as a hobby/challenge too, and are not that concerned with keeping mass down to fit in weight divisions.

Degsy

Hanley wrote: »

Your arms are quite large for your weight like. I assumed that since they were that size you would have to be less tall than the average ya know?? Like same amount of weight on a 5 foot guy and a 5'10 guy, who's gonna look bigger??

I'm actually 95 kilos,i weighed meself last night.I'm 5'10'' although i'm holding some fat too.

Hanley

rubadub wrote: »

You said you can deadlift more than lads with bigger arms than you. I am not surprised, you train for powerlifting, probably have more muscle mass all over, more "real" muscle anyway. Since you are in a weight division are you training for just strength? while consciously not trying to put on weight?

Aye, I'd deadlift more than some, but not all. Since I'm pretty much at my weight class limit I've 3 options;
1) Move up to 110
2) Try and not put on any more fat or muscle
3) Drop some fat, gain some muscle

I'm sure you can guess that number 3 is the one to go for!! With the weight classes outside of say 125, 145 and 145+kg you can't afford to carry THAT much fat if you want to be competitive. It makes more sense to try and get bf% down and muscle up.

A 100kg powerlifter is going to be able to move more than a 100kg bodybuilder.

Sometimes, but not always. For example I train with a bodybuilder who's about 89-95kg and he's pulled something stupid like 270x5. It's so dependent on many other factors... Height, years training etc..

If you're talking world class powerlifter and world class bodybuilder, the powerlifter will be stronger. But as you move down the ranks the lines become blurred.

did wonder if many amateur powerlifters are just doing it as something extra alongside their bodybuilding. i.e. they want to get big and just do competitions as a hobby/challenge too, and are not that concerned with keeping mass down to fit in weight divisions.

Believe it or not, the opposite is something I've seen hold true more often in my exp at least. I train with 3 powerlifters who recently did a bodybuilding comp and did quite well. Ronnie, Jonnie Jackson, Branch Warren and I believe Trey Brewer are all ex-powerlifters. When it's all said and done, it's just lifting weights regardless of the discipline in question. They're both quite similar, the only difference with e bodybuilding is that there'd be more of a focus on isolation work that powerliting.

Edwardius

Hanley wrote: »

Sometimes, but not always. For example I train with a bodybuilder who's about 89-95kg and he's pulled something stupid like 270x5. It's so dependent on many other factors... Height, years training etc..

Aye, if you have a huge torso and short legs or vice versa it'll define how good you are going to get at picking large heavy things off of the floor!
Genetics does play a role in how good or otherwise people get at the top level of a sport, but for normal joes, I don't think there's a man alive that hasn't had the capability at one time in his life to deadlift over 100kg. The irony is that if someone uses the genetics excuse they're likely to give up long before they reach the potential of their self declared ****ty genetics, so genetics doesn't some into the equation for them. It's just an excuse.

The squatting for biceps thing seems to have confused people. If you weigh 75 odd kilos and train arms you'll allegedly top out at 15 inches. If you do heavy squats and deads the resultant HGH and testosterone will beef things up (assuming adequate dietary intake) and provide for the formation of bigger arms if you do indeed train them. In short, squatting will provide for larger arms if they're trained. Just doing bicep curls will get your "guns" or whatever to a level where they match current muscular structure (would this be right? It seems to make sense).

Anyway, weighted chins are more fun than curls!

Transform

Exactly - the most over rated beginner gym exercise is the bicep curl as most tend to focus on isolation at the start rather than the big basic lifts.

Do i recommed curls for those wanting to put on some size - yes, but NOT a whole 30mins 3 days a week.

Count the amount of people in your gym who are training to become bigger and more muscular and what are they doing -

curls (2-3 different exercises), bench press, lateral raises, lat pulldown (or worst the chin and dip assist machine), one arm rows (done badly) oh and the wonderful inner chest building cable cross over!!

Lift basic in the first part of your program and isolation last.

Mikel

Transform wrote: »

Exactly - the most over rated beginner gym exercise is the bicep curl as most tend to focus on isolation at the start rather than the big basic lifts.
Do i recommed curls for those wanting to put on some size - yes, but NOT a whole 30mins 3 days a week.
Count the amount of people in your gym who are training to become bigger and more muscular and what are they doing -
curls (2-3 different exercises), bench press, lateral raises, lat pulldown (or worst the chin and dip assist machine), one arm rows (done badly) oh and the wonderful inner chest building cable cross over!!

Lift basic in the first part of your program and isolation last.

Exactly

Hanley wrote:

As an aside, but still relevant, ignoring a muscle group, ANY muscle group is setting yourself up for an injury down the road. Just because some people might think they're hardcore and don't need to train biceps to get them doesn't neccessarily mean they don't need to be trained at all. An example of my own, I don't care about bicep size and train them infrequently. The result? Elbow problems. Since working on my biceps and forearms the pain has gone away.

By that logic, shouldn't you then use isolation exercises on every single muscle group? How would you decide the relative weights for each?

As Transform said above, look around and see which is worked all the time and which is neglected.
Looking at east europeans with huge arms isn't nercessarily going to tell you how they got them, there are a lot of variables.
Also, while a lot of people use genetics as an excuse, there are a lot of big guys who dismiss the legitimacy of the argument purely because they think incorrectly it diminishes the effort they put it.
Again, look around at all the curl jockeys, how many are seeing the progress they would if they did the compounds instead?

Hanley wrote:

for future reference when you say something as profoundly incorrect as that then expect me to call you on it

For future reference, how was what I said 'profoundly incorrect'???

Hanley

Mikel wrote: »

Exactly



By that logic, shouldn't you then use isolation exercises on every single muscle group? How would you decide the relative weights for each?

By "weights" I assume you mean the importance of each group?

My point is it's neccessary to pay attention to muscle groups that might have been ignored so as to prevent injury. For example bicep training to prevent future elbow trouble. For the average gym rat extra hamstring work is probably neccessary since so much attention is given to quad development (high squats, leg extenstions, leg presses etc). Sure some muscle groups will get enough work during a normal training week for this problem not to occur, but based on my own findings, it's neccessary to train your biceps seperately too.

And before anyone says anything, I was doing at least one row/pull down per training session 4x a week, and more frequently, two per session.

As Transform said above, look around and see which is worked all the time and which is neglected.
Looking at east europeans with huge arms isn't nercessarily going to tell you how they got them, there are a lot of variables.
Also, while a lot of people use genetics as an excuse, there are a lot of big guys who dismiss the legitimacy of the argument purely because they think incorrectly it diminishes the effort they put it.
Again, look around at all the curl jockeys, how many are seeing the progress they would if they did the compounds instead?

I'm not interested in "looking around" to see what people are doing. I know very well that too much emphasis is given to bicep training by young people/newbs. I never disputed that. But to suggest dropping it entirely would be madness. Like I said, over reaction in the short term (dropping ALL isolation), under reaction in the long term (thinking compound movements will sort everything out so there's no point in isolation).

For future reference, how was what I said 'profoundly incorrect'???

You came into a thread with intelligent arguments being made for and against something and just posted a one line catch all reply without any further elaboration or cavets which could quite easily be taken to imply that there squats and deadlifts are the best bicep builders out there. The OP specifically asked about how to get their arms larger and you said to squat and deadlift. Firstly this assumes they don't do it already, and secondly it could quite easily be interpreted as isolation being a waste of time.

rubadub

Hanley wrote: »

If you're talking world class powerlifter and world class bodybuilder, the powerlifter will be stronger. But as you move down the ranks the lines become blurred.

Yeah, thats what I might expect. And like you say experience etc might play a part. I would expect a 18 year old BBer in 10 years time at the exact same bodyfat% and weight would be stronger, i.e. able to shift more, technique etc.

Hanley wrote: »

I know very well that too much emphasis is given to bicep training by young people/newbs. I never disputed that. But to suggest dropping it entirely would be madness. Like I said, over reaction in the short term (dropping ALL isolation), under reaction in the long term (thinking compound movements will sort everything out so there's no point in isolation).
Firstly this assumes they don't do it already, and secondly it could quite easily be interpreted as isolation being a waste of time.

I think the "warnings" against isolation is mainly people just saying time might be better spent on other exercises. For powerlifting, BBing sure you will be doing isolation exercises. But a lot of people here are going to a gym maybe 2 times a week, lifting in 8-12rep range, and only doing 30-45mins per session. I presume there is less chance of injury if working in higher rep ranges?

But a lot of the time the advice is simply that time is more efficiently spent doing compound movements than isolation. My brother and mates have questioned all the plates I have, saying "you can't lift more than 50kg can you? what are all those plates for" in their mind lift=curl.
The warnings might also be said knowing the person will go ahead and do curls anyway, but hopefully not spend half their time in the gym doing them.

In other threads I was saying curls is the "cartoon lift", ask somebody off the street to pretend to lift and 95% will do a curl. This also is apparent since the isolation exercise you hear people warn/disuade against is always the curl, no other isolation exercise is as overused, well maybe doing millions of unweighted situps.

davyjose

Hanley wrote: »

For the average gym rat extra hamstring work is probably neccessary since so much attention is given to quad development (high squats, leg extenstions, leg presses etc).

Absolutely - when I did this, my knee pain diminished a LOT!!!!