€500 Fine At Clonsilla Train Station ?!

Anselm

guys,

any opinions or thoughts on this ? I get the Maynooth train to Clonsilla each day on the way home from work. Most days, I cross the tracks physically rather than walk to the crossing (if you know the station you will know what I mean). I know this is a bit risky, but hey, I do it sometimes when I am in a hurry , as do a lot of people.
Anyway, today I did it, and on the other side at the gates, 2 eastern europeans (russians I think) in "rail security" jumpers pulled me. Said it was a trespassing offence, and a €500 fine. It was me and about 10 others pulled, and they started asking for ID. A few didnt have, or refused, and they said they would call the guards. I gave them an old college ID and a name and address .

Anyone heard of this before, or was anyone on boards one of the people who was pulled with me ?

Any thoughts appreciated, bit of a mad scene !

paulm17781

I was cornered by DART security once and they were plain clothed, scary looking lads, probably to intimidate. I know IE are trying to clamp down on stuff, this could be a part of it. If in doubt, I would contact IE directly and ask if such a thing is likely. I figure when you have to pay the fine you will know if it going to IE or a cash (hence dodgy) transaction.

KTRIC

To be honest OP you did break the law and trespass on private property. what you did was highly dangerous and you can't expect to get away with it.

I'm sure if you get a €500 fine you will know its from the proper source.

icdg

There are "Do not trespass on the railway" signs at the end of every platform at every station in the country. It is against the CIE By-Laws and is illegal, you are only supposed to be using public areas of the station.

Not just that, but its highly dangerous. If an InterCity or goods train happened to be heading your way at high speed while you were on the track, you'd be a gonner.

Skyhater

Can you explain exactly where you crossed? There are three options to crossing the railway at Clonsilla station.
1) Cross the Footbridge over the railway (By Far the Safest)
2) Exit that Station and cross at the Level Crossing (where the cars cross - slightly dangerous, but in no way illegal as far as i know.)
3) Physically Cross the Line at the Platform.

It looks like you picked Option 3, which if you did..... You are an absolute & complete idiot, and deserve every fine IE can throw at you!!!!
This is something you would expect from little gurriors, not any responable rail user.
Just too lazy to use the footbridge!!!

On the other hand...if you used option 2), you probably have a case.

Pineapple stu

Anselm wrote: »

guys,

any opinions or thoughts on this ? I get the Maynooth train to Clonsilla each day on the way home from work. Most days, I cross the tracks physically rather than walk to the crossing (if you know the station you will know what I mean). I know this is a bit risky, but hey, I do it sometimes when I am in a hurry , as do a lot of people.
Anyway, today I did it, and on the other side at the gates, 2 eastern europeans (russians I think) in "rail security" jumpers pulled me. Said it was a trespassing offence, and a €500 fine. It was me and about 10 others pulled, and they started asking for ID. A few didnt have, or refused, and they said they would call the guards. I gave them an old college ID and a name and address .

Anyone heard of this before, or was anyone on boards one of the people who was pulled with me ?

Any thoughts appreciated, bit of a mad scene !

You deserve what you get. People have been killed doing what you did. I saw one idiot in kilbarrack carrying his kid in a pram across the tracks from one platform to another.
You will be fined.

markf909

I hope you at least waited for the train you got off to leave the station?

Seriously I know its a shortcut but it is too dangerous especially as the entrance to Coolmine from the train occurs on bend so any inter city train would be in without any warning.

invincibleirish

at the Rushbrooke stop on the Cobh line, everyone who gets off the train walks across the tracks instead of using the ancient slippy steps over the tracks, and i mean everyone, if people are doing it for years then someone demands a 500 Euro fine oneday i can imagine the response i'd give....

Skyhater

invincibleirish wrote: »

at the Rushbrooke stop on the Cobh line, everyone who gets off the train walks across the tracks instead of using the ancient slippy steps over the tracks, and i mean everyone, if people are doing it for years then someone demands a 500 Euro fine oneday i can imagine the response i'd give....

This is not Cobh, It's Clonsilla... and there are two other safe ways to cross the track. Most people use these options. It's only the stupid few who don't!!!

Stark

"Everyone does it" is reason to clamp down and clamp down hard, not an excuse for more people to do it. You just can't have people strolling across heavy rail lines with impunity.

Hellm0

500 Euro is a bit much for doing this, I'll freely admit that when I was taking the Maynooth line home I crossed over the tracks. Fact of the matter is every single time I got that bloody train it was always late, not to mention the fact that the old man who opens the gateway for cars is almost never there the lazy baxtard.

Another fact worth mentioning is that both the road(gated) and the overpass are incredibly crowded after a train unloads and the overpass is slippery as f*ck.

In addition, stop picking on the OP. What he did was dangerous yes but he's being fined for it and no need to be so anal and condescending with your replies.

kravmaga

Anselm wrote: »

guys,

any opinions or thoughts on this ? I get the Maynooth train to Clonsilla each day on the way home from work. Most days, I cross the tracks physically rather than walk to the crossing (if you know the station you will know what I mean). I know this is a bit risky, but hey, I do it sometimes when I am in a hurry , as do a lot of people.
Anyway, today I did it, and on the other side at the gates, 2 eastern europeans (russians I think) in "rail security" jumpers pulled me. Said it was a trespassing offence, and a €500 fine. It was me and about 10 others pulled, and they started asking for ID. A few didnt have, or refused, and they said they would call the guards. I gave them an old college ID and a name and address .

Anyone heard of this before, or was anyone on boards one of the people who was pulled with me ?

Any thoughts appreciated, bit of a mad scene !

---

check this out, you have committed the offence of trespass on a railway the , you need to find out fast if the Security company representing Irish Rail are Authorised Officers /Agents , if they are you are in trouble, its a summary offence which can go to the local district court.

STT Risk Management is the security company who employee ex military staff

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1950/en/act/pub/0012/sec0059.html#zza12y1950s59

kravmaga

also check out CIE Railway Byelaws SI 109 of 1984

Obviously the fines have changed since 1984.

O by the way I would not mess with these guys, they all have military service in Eastern Europe, need I say more.

I have seen these guys in action in UK, they should have called the Garda but if they are Authorised Officers or Agents of Irish Rail they have the authority to take your details and report to local Garda or Head of Security in Irish Rail.

Victor

It is probably covered by the Rail Safety Act.

Given that someone was killed by a Luas yesterday and that 5-10 people get killed on the railways every year, its highly irresponsible. While a Luas has similar performance characteristics to road vehicle, it can take more than 1km for a train to stop.

A Dub in Glasgo

Original poster is an idiot and will probably be the first to complain to IE if he tripped on ballast or slipped on the rail nevermind getting whacked by a train. Idiots who think they are invincible to save themselves 60 seconds

John_C

A friend from college got cought doing this. It went to court and he was fined.

IRISH RAIL

Another fact worth mentioning is that both the road(gated) and the overpass are incredibly crowded after a train unloads

I have to say thats the most pathetic excuse I have ever heard.
You will be fined and everyone else who was caught. IE staff are specially trained for walking on the railway line you havent a clue.
youre putting youre life and the lives of others in danger.
supposing a intercity express was passing the driver sees you in the middle of the tracks you look up and freeze at 112 tons of loco coming in on you at 70ish mph he has to apply emergency brakes throwing everyone in the train around not to mention the drivers toughts that he may kill you.

I have one word for people that cross the line like that IDIOTS
Do all IE staff a favour kill yourself some other way spare them the tought of seeing a mangled body spread over a mile.

HydeRoad

I worked with a man once, who was formerly of London Transport, and responsible among other things to be first on the scene when somebody jumped under or was hit by a train. Can you imagine what those guys have to face?

You have absolutely no concept of how fast a train approaches. Nobody does. This is not a road, where you see a car coming miles away at speed, and you judge you can run across before the car is near. A train approaches absolutely silently. You DO NOT hear it coming. It is upon you INSTANTLY. Another thread here deals with the braking distances required for trains. It is in MILES, not feet.

Think of the locomotive driver, for just a moment. Can you imagine being in the cab, at 70 or 80mph, and see an idiot walking or running across the tracks in the distance in front of you? He might not be quick enough. He might even trip on the sleepers and fall! Do you slam on the brakes of a laden inter city or freight train in case it happens? Do you keep going and hope for the best??? Can you imagine the language of that train driver in the privacy of his cab?

I'm very sorry for the OP, he has learned a hard lesson, but the €500 fine is absolutely in order. Pay it, learn the lesson, and pass the word around. There are NO circumstances where you trespass on a railway. End of story.

Ham'nd'egger

HydeRoad wrote: »

I worked with a man once, who was formerly of London Transport, and responsible among other things to be first on the scene when somebody jumped under or was hit by a train. Can you imagine what those guys have to face?

You have absolutely no concept of how fast a train approaches. Nobody does. This is not a road, where you see a car coming miles away at speed, and you judge you can run across before the car is near. A train approaches absolutely silently. You DO NOT hear it coming. It is upon you INSTANTLY. Another thread here deals with the braking distances required for trains. It is in MILES, not feet.

Think of the locomotive driver, for just a moment. Can you imagine being in the cab, at 70 or 80mph, and see an idiot walking or running across the tracks in the distance in front of you? He might not be quick enough. He might even trip on the sleepers and fall! Do you slam on the brakes of a laden inter city or freight train in case it happens? Do you keep going and hope for the best??? Can you imagine the language of that train driver in the privacy of his cab?

I'm very sorry for the OP, he has learned a hard lesson, but the €500 fine is absolutely in order. Pay it, learn the lesson, and pass the word around. There are NO circumstances where you trespass on a railway. End of story.

Just to add to your point, Hyde; some years ago, a train driver was involved in an incident in Galway whereby he was driving a train that hit a car at a level crossing that killed two people. The driver was invalided out on sick leave for months and never returned to the cab such was the mental distress he suffered afterwards. Only this week, a train in Waterford was damaged after some idiots blocked the track; as a result the line is out of action for 2 weeks. A court case 2 weeks past recorded two men in Limerick who were convicted of trespassing on a track while drunk, and one gob****e's exploits in Monastervian needs not be mentioned again.

The €500 fine imposed on OP for his actions would barely cover the hire of one coach for one day if a line was closed were he hit, let alone litigation, repairs, sick leave and injuries to victims, passenger refunds etc. OP is getting off very very lightly this time round without a criminal record and I sincerely hope he won't repeat his stunt again.

corktina

I think the point should be made also that a child might see you crossing the lines thus and decide its safe to follow your example.....

every year experianced Permanent Way staff get killed on the line....if they can get caught out, then you could or someone following your example....dont do it , it isnt worth the risk.

deRanged

invincibleirish wrote: »

at the Rushbrooke stop on the Cobh line,

it was common at Glounthaune for people with buggies to use the line instead of trying to struggle over the bridge. Since they stationed a senior guy there for the Midleton line that's been clamped down on severly. I've seen people cross the line and be thrown out of the station. The same at Little Island - they tend not to let people who cross the tracks onto the train. Proper order too.

OTK

What's the world coming to when an Irish man can't walk across mainline rail tracks without being bothered by security guards talking about the 'law'?

The worst part is that they were foreigners. How can any foreigner have authority over an Irish man? It makes my blood boil.

What on Earth could be dangerous about walking on railway tracks? It's a bit mad alright.

DisandDat

I cannot believe what I am reading here. This is a revenue generating SCAM. Irish Rail could not give a dam about you or your safety, anybody who has ever lost property on a train will know this.


As for the old threat, "I'll ring the guards". Go ahead, by all means. As for handing over my personal details to two russians. Not going to happen.

Protect your privacy, and realise that a scam, even when dressed in health and safety ribbons, its still a scam.

Hagar

Did the op cross the tracks again this morning?
Did he see any of the 10 others stopped yesterday doing so?

I think not.

Lesson learned. Job done.

DisandDat

Hagar wrote: »

Did the op cross the tracks again this morning?
Did he see any of the 10 others stopped yesterday doing so?

I think not.

Lesson learned. Job done.

I don't need the government looking over my shoulder. I am well able to look after myself. If two Russians approached me I would laugh in their face.

I cross the tracks regular. Its a simple process. Train tracks are laid in a straight line, look left, look right, if nothing is coming, proceed.

You mind your business, I'll mind mine. Nowadays everyone appears to be a busybody, hasseling other people. Its my life, I'll risk it as I see fit.

KC61

DisandDat wrote: »

I don't need the government looking over my shoulder. I am well able to look after myself. If two Russians approached me I would laugh in their face.

I cross the tracks regular. Its a simple process. Train tracks are laid in a straight line, look left, look right, if nothing is coming, proceed.

You mind your business, I'll mind mine. Nowadays everyone appears to be a busybody, hasseling other people. Its my life, I'll risk it as I see fit.

What a selfish viewpoint.

The trouble is that if you were hit by a train, it would not just be you involved. What about trauma caused to the train driver, and indeed any other people who might witness it?

If we take your synopsis of the situation to it's logical conclusion, you obviously feel that there should be no laws whatsoever in this country?

At the end of the day walking on railway tracks is dangerous, and with the new units being exceptionally quiet, it is even more lethal than it has ever been.

DisandDat

KC61 wrote: »

What a selfish viewpoint.

Just you worry about yourself, I don't need you kind having any concern for me.

KC61 wrote: »

The trouble is that if you were hit by a train, it would not just be you involved. What about trauma caused to the train driver, and indeed any other people who might witness it?

I am not stupid, if I see a train I don't cross. Therefore how would I get hit??

KC61 wrote: »

If we take your synopsis of the situation to it's logical conclusion, you obviously feel that there should be no laws whatsoever in this country?

Thats a big jump. Of course you need laws, I don't need instructions on how to tie my shoe laces, others appear to.

KC61 wrote: »

At the end of the day walking on railway tracks is dangerous, and with the new units being exceptionally quiet, it is even more lethal than it has ever been.

I have two eyes that sort out that problem.

I would love to hear the opinions of men 100 years ago. They would be laughing their heads off at the state of people nowadays. They have to ask before they do anything. Not me.

Hagar

Are there any other laws that don't apply to you, just to other people?

DisandDat

Hagar wrote: »

Are there any other laws that don't apply to you, just to other people?

Look, I just don't like extortion rackets.

I'll give you some background. Last November, I got off the dart at Pearse. Now my station was not selling tickets, therefore I did not have a ticket. Would that seem logical?

Apparently not for the 4 Polish goons and one excuse for an Irishman who then proceeded to write up a fine. Only yours truly did not give up any information. I was manhandled, all caught on camera, I might add. They said, we'll call the cops. I said, either you do, or I will.

Well what do you know, I was let on my way without even having to pay the 1.90 fare.

These people are not cops, they have no authority. Fight fire with fire.

Thats how you deal with extortion rackets.

paulm17781

I like how OTK and my racist friend DisandDat make the exact same point though one is joking and I hope the other gets hit next time he crosses the tracks.

DisandDat

paulm17781 wrote: »

I like how OTK and my racist friend DisandDat

So we are all politically correct. If a man is polish and I call him polish, how is that racist???? If a car is red, i call it a red car.

I am white, irish and even though it might be sexist, male.

paulm17781 wrote: »

I hope the other gets hit next time he crosses the tracks.

Not going to happen. You see I have eyes and ears, I put them to good use.

paulm17781

DisandDat wrote: »

So we are all politically correct. If a man is polish and I call him polish, how is that racist???? If a car is red, i call it a red car.

Because no Russian is going to tell you what to do. You were manhandled by 4 Polish goons. Once you have to distinguish someone's ethnicity to make a point, you are implying this changes things. Hence you imply a difference between Irish and non-Irish. If you said "He was Polish and didn't understand what I meant" that is not racist. If he is a "Polish goon". Polish is an adjective describing the type of goon you find him to be. Note, you were accosted by (your words) four Polish goons and an excuse for an Irish man. Why not 5 goons? Racism.

Polar101

OTK wrote: »

What on Earth could be dangerous about walking on railway tracks? It's a bit mad alright.

I was wondering about that as well.

Personally I find it more likely that (at Clonsilla station) someone will slip and injury themselves on the footbridge, or get hit by a car, than someone getting hit by a train - the gates are closed for trains most of the time, anyway.

I understand why it is against the law, though. €500 sounds a bit much to me, wouldn't cross the tracks myself.

DisandDat

paulm17781 wrote: »

Because no Russian is going to tell you what to do. You were manhandled by 4 Polish goons. Once you have to distinguish someone's ethnicity to make a point, you are implying this changes things. Hence you imply a difference between Irish and non-Irish. If you said "He was Polish and didn't understand what I meant" that is not racist. If he is a "Polish goon". Polish is an adjective describing the type of goon you find him to be. Note, you were accosted by (your words) four Polish goons and an excuse for an Irish man. Why not 5 goons? Racism.

No Irish man is going to tell me what to do. No irish goon is going to manhandle me. Does that clear up you politically correct sensitivities.

Why not 5 goons. The other person was a ticket inspector, not a hired enforcer (goon, look it up in a dictionary)

Catch yourself on.

paulm17781

DisandDat wrote: »

No Irish man is going to tell me what to do. No irish goon is going to manhandle me. Does that clear up you politically correct sensitivities.

I wasn't aware racism and political incorrectness were the same thing. Now, first off, most of them are Russian not Polish. Secondly, that isn't what you said in your mail. Thirdly, what difference does it make if they are Polish or Irish? Finally, if you didn't post things that can be seen as racist, people wouldn't have issues with what you say.

Disanddat wrote:

Why not 5 goons. The other person was a ticket inspector, not a hired enforcer (goon, look it up in a dictionary)

with pleasure.

# A player who may lack finesse but specializes in hard hitting checks to interfere with the other team. ...
www.lifetimehockey.com/Glossary.htm

# lout: an awkward stupid person
# hood: an aggressive and violent young criminal



OP / mods, sorry for the OT.

Stark

DisandDat wrote: »

Not going to happen. You see I have eyes and ears, I put them to good use.

You might be able to cross the tracks safely, but then 20 other sheep follow you and one of them ends up getting hit. Ergo, they can't let anyone get away with strolling across the tracks.

DisandDat wrote: »

I cannot believe what I am reading here. This is a revenue generating SCAM. Irish Rail could not give a dam about you or your safety, anybody who has ever lost property on a train will know this.

How is it a "SCAM"? A scam would mean that they were getting money out of you through dishonest or unlawful means. If there was no law against walking across the train tracks, then you could call it a scam. However, there are laws against what the OP did, Irish Rail hasn't been secretive about these laws and Irish Rail is legally entitled to fine him.

DisandDat

paulm17781 wrote: »

I wasn't aware racism and political incorrectness were the same thing.

They are not. When you call a red car, a red car. That is not racism. The problem with house trained people like yourself, you tend to run your mouth off on the racism issue.

paulm17781 wrote: »

Now, first off, most of them are Russian not Polish.

These were poles.

paulm17781 wrote: »

Thirdly, what difference does it make if they are Polish or Irish?

Who said it made any difference? If an Irish goon hits me, he is an irish goon.

paulm17781 wrote: »

Finally, if you didn't post things that can be seen as racist, people wouldn't have issues with what you say.

I'll post how I want to post.

paulm17781 wrote: »

with pleasure.

A goon is a hired enforcer/thug.

Hagar

DisandDat wrote: »

A goon is a hired enforcer/thug.

Not necessarily. Was it any of these men?

DisandDat

Hagar wrote: »

Not necessarily. Was it any of these men?

Funny guy. If you want to play word games, join the law society.

paulm17781

OP, I think it comes down to the fine is legal and will have to be paid. Contact IE to see if you can do anything about getting it reduced?

Disanddat... you're wonderful, you know me too well, I am clearly "house trained" (WTF?) I only wish there were more like you out there. Let us get back to the point at hand now. Also, where is your definitions of a goon? I posted some quickies from google.

Cookie_Monster

HydeRoad wrote: »

A train approaches absolutely silently. You DO NOT hear it coming.

What magic silent trains to you get:rolleyes:, certainly not the ones in this country! Trains are very very loud and easy to hear, even DARTs squeek like mad.

@ the rest of the high horse brigade

Yes, the OP did something wrong but that is no reason to go on and on about how stupid he is. I think the fine is far to excessive for a relativly minor offence. And I'm sure countlees people do it all over the country every day.

mikemac

paulm17781 wrote: »

Because no Russian is going to tell you what to do. You were manhandled by 4 Polish goons. Once you have to distinguish someone's ethnicity to make a point, you are implying this changes things. Hence you imply a difference between Irish and non-Irish. If you said "He was Polish and didn't understand what I meant" that is not racist. If he is a "Polish goon". Polish is an adjective describing the type of goon you find him to be. Note, you were accosted by (your words) four Polish goons and an excuse for an Irish man. Why not 5 goons? Racism.

Sorry to be pedantic but how does a white European from Ireland be racist against a white European from Poland or Russia?
Same race, therefore no racism

Cookie_Monster

DisandDat wrote: »

I don't need the government looking over my shoulder. I am well able to look after myself. If two Russians approached me I would laugh in their face.

I cross the tracks regular. Its a simple process. Train tracks are laid in a straight line, look left, look right, if nothing is coming, proceed.

You mind your business, I'll mind mine. Nowadays everyone appears to be a busybody, hasseling other people. Its my life, I'll risk it as I see fit.

+1

DisandDat

paulm17781 wrote: »

OP, I think it comes down to the fine is legal and will have to be paid.

Good point. Is the fine legal? Contact citizens information. I would doubt this to be the case. A guard can fine you, but a hired hand??

You might be surprised, when it all boils down.

paulm17781 wrote: »

Also, where is your definitions of a goon? I posted some quickies from google.

A hired thug/enforcer.

Skyhater

DisandDat you do have the right of freedom to speech and we wouldn't want to take that away from you.

Similarly I'll use my freedom of speach to say that "YOU ARE A TWAT".
All the other posters have quite well described what a selfish twat you are.
You and people like you are dragging this county down the sewer.

Bottom line is the OP deserved the €500 fine. If it were up to me, I'd make it €1,000.
The higher the fine, the less likely some "twat" will do it again, therefore reducing the need to hire security and leaving a safer environment for everyone.
I'd apply the same rule to speeding, anti-social-behaviour or anything else the impacts peoples safety and/or quality of life.

It's about time this country got real and implemented some laws that will make a real difference.

jhegarty

Have these security guards (I presume thats all they are) any right to physically stop someone leaving the station ?

paulm17781

micmclo wrote: »

Sorry to be pedantic but how does a white European from Ireland be racist against a white European from Poland or Russia?
Same race, therefore no racism

If you want to be pedantic you should point out there is only one race, human. The rest is ethnicities of which there are only 3. From there sub groups split out into nationalities. However if I were to call him Nationalist it would mean something very different. Racism is a term bandied about these days when someone dislikes someone based on their nationality, the point I was making is he distinguishes people based on their origins.

Skyhater, well put.

Cookie_Monster

paulm17781 wrote: »

If you want to be pedantic you should point out there is only one race, human. The rest is ethnicities of which there are only 3. From there sub groups split out into nationalities. However if I were to call him Nationalist it would mean something very different. Racism is a term bandied about these days when someone dislikes someone based on their nationality, the point I was making is he distinguishes people based on their origins.

Beat me to it.

Stark

Cookie Monster wrote:

And I'm sure countlees people do it all over the country every day.

And that is exactly why an effective deterrent is needed.

markpb

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Yes, the OP did something wrong but that is no reason to go on and on about how stupid he is. I think the fine is far to excessive for a relativly minor offence. And I'm sure countlees people do it all over the country every day.

The reason it's so high is because of the side effects if someone gets hit. The line could be closed for hours, if not days. Thousands of people would be forced to find another way to work. The driver will be off duty until an investigation clears him. The Gardai, RSA and HSA will have to investigate. The cost to the state could be well over a million euro. It might be an outside chance that something happens but there's still a chance.

Ham'nd'egger

DisandDat wrote: »

Is the fine legal? Contact citizens information. I would doubt this to be the case. A guard can fine you, but a hired hand??.

Yes, the "goons" can fine you for it. You can be fined either under a Bye Law of Irish Rail or a prosecution under Statute Laws can be made. Once you choose to travel on a train, you agree to abide by the bye laws of Irish Rail. While you can argue the toss about other minor issues, you cannot but say that you didn't know it is illegal or dangerous to walk on the tracks, especially in the week when a man was killed by a LUAS when he walked over it's tracks.