Cheating online! - Poll

Ollieboy

Have you cheat online:

If you have done any of the following than your answer should be yes.

1. Purchase or sold your account to another player so he could use it.
2. Set-up 2 accounts on the same site without permission from the site operator
3. Use MSM or Skype etc to discuss hands while in play and these discussion influence your decision
4. Set up or used a current account to share with other players to win additional rake or prize's etc.
5. Allowed someone else to use your account to finish a game for you or did like wise for them.

Feel free to add additional type of cheating that you think full-fills the critera.

Ollieboy

My answers:

1. No
2. I did set up new accounts on a site, but agreed this with the operator and was allowed to keep the old account.
3. have been railed by friends when going deep on skype and told them my hands, but never discuss what would be the best play.
4. No
5. No

So my answer is no to cheating.

ditpoker

Ollieboy wrote: »

1. Purchase or sold your account to another player so he could use it.
2. Set-up 2 accounts on the same site without permission from the site operator
3. Use MSM or Skype etc to discuss hands while in play and these discussion influence your decision
4. Set up or used a current account to share with other players to win additional rake or prize's etc.
5. Allowed someone else to use your account to finish a game for you or did like wise for them.

1. no
2. no
3. i've openly typed what i have in the chat box when playing STT's to luckylloyd/aodea cos its funny. does that count?
4. no, though surely thats not cheating, just taking advantage of the system?
5. yes.

so my answer is yes...

redzerdrog

i voted no to them all but i once let my little brother aged 11 play in a playmoney tourny one night it was funny because he came 7th out of 200 odd people and won thousands of playmoney chips but he taught he was rich and wanted the money off me!!!

5starpool

I don't play online much, but I have never done any of the above.

FlushPoker.ie

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. Hell no im not letting anyone in on my account and having all my cash froze if the site catches wind!!

Id be shocked if ppl actually admitted cheating on a forum and risk their reputation, which is a big thing in our poker world, and also risked the site they play on reading such forum posts and going through their account with a fine comb

Hitman Actual

5starpool wrote: »

I don't play online much, but I have never done any of the above.

Same as.

Gillybean72

I am guilty of No. 3 Used MSN and Skype..

phantom_lord

I've never done it or anything, but is #4 considered cheating?

YULETIRED

Why are people answering this? The fact that you do...means you don't really have what it takes to be a cheater....

Mellor

I voted yes, based on the fact that I told somebody to play for me while I was late (satelite, tickets already earned, can't cash out)

Ollieboy

FlushPoker.ie wrote: »

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. Hell no im not letting anyone in on my account and having all my cash froze if the site catches wind!!

Id be shocked if ppl actually admitted cheating on a forum and risk their reputation, which is a big thing in our poker world, and also risked the site they play on reading such forum posts and going through their account with a fine comb

The point will be made by the people you dont reply.

Ollieboy

ditpoker wrote: »

1. no
2. no
3. i've openly typed what i have in the chat box when playing STT's to luckylloyd/aodea cos its funny. does that count?
4. no, though surely thats not cheating, just taking advantage of the system?
5. yes.

so my answer is yes...

4 is cheating, it's one account per player, the same way 1 hand per player. If I decide to take advantage of a rake deal and I've 24/7 effort in it by rotating players, than the player who is playing it on his own is at a disadvantage. Hence it should be included in cheating class

KevIRL

Bless me father for I have sinned...

Yep I have. It was way back when I first played online and I'd never do it again. It did show how easy it was though. I was playing a freeroll on ipoker, and so was my friend, we were yappin on MSN. After the first hour he decided he was bored and was goin to the pub, so he told me how to use logmein.com and I was able to play his hands from laptop. After a while we ended up on the same table and I dumped all his chips to me.

I guess the poker gods frowned on me cause I went from 3rd in chips to busto shortly after.

V v v wrong and I wouldnt consider doing anything like it again.

Ollieboy

I suppose what I'm trying to show his how easy it is to cheat and how relax people are about it. Some people dont even realise what cheating is or dont really class it as cheating.

The problem is that poker online as a lot of grey areas.

Point 4 is not really cheating, but using a account to its full advantage to get a better discount on rake.

Point 3 again is not really cheating, it's the excitement factor of playing online and sharing it with your mates, but its a very thin white line that can be cross. If someone influence's your decision, its cheating.

YULETIRED

addition!


No.5 telling everyone you are in the business end of a tourny so as they will rail you and thereby increasing the karma 'will to win' factor in your favour simultanously making the guy in Alaska playing on his own feel even more alone , paranoid and card dead............Is it ethical .?

Dearg81

1. no
2. no.
3. yes
4. yes
5. yes

Im a filthy cheater with no morals

Mr.Plough

Let my brother play $1 stts but hes retarded at the pokers


















could have been me when I was busto because I suck at poker

Ollieboy

YULETIRED wrote: »

addition!


No.5 telling everyone you are in the business end of a tourny so as they will rail you and thereby increasing the karma 'will to win' factor in your favour simultanously making the guy in Alaska playing on his own feel even more alone , paranoid and card dead............Is it ethical .?

he can switch off his chat function.

Ollieboy

KevIRL wrote: »

Bless me father for I have sinned...

Yep I have. It was way back when I first played online and I'd never do it again. It did show how easy it was though. I was playing a freeroll on ipoker, and so was my friend, we were yappin on MSN. After the first hour he decided he was bored and was goin to the pub, so he told me how to use logmein.com and I was able to play his hands from laptop. After a while we ended up on the same table and I dumped all his chips to me.

I guess the poker gods frowned on me cause I went from 3rd in chips to busto shortly after.

V v v wrong and I wouldnt consider doing anything like it again.

You've got to love that story...

Imposter

Is bankroll sharing cheating?
Is swapping percentages with other players cheating (assuming everyone else in tournament doesn't know)?
Is staking other players in a tournament you are also playing in cheating?

If everything above is cheating then I would say all these are too!
All of that goes for live and online.

Ollieboy

Imposter wrote: »

Is bankroll sharing cheating?
Is swapping percentages with other players cheating (assuming everyone else in tournament doesn't know)?
Is staking other players in a tournament you are also playing in cheating?

If everything above is cheating then I would say all these are too!
All of that goes for live and online.

I would say no, once it doesn't influence there decision making or they play soft against each other. This as also been a topical debate on forums. I personally dont like to swap percentages or buy-stakes in people unless I fee they need it to get going again or there really good value and I fancy a flutter.

KevIRL

Ollieboy wrote: »

You've got to love that story...

Im quite ashamed of it in fact. Although now that I have admitted it in public I feel some what cleansed

Goes to show how easy it is though. For techy types, would using a site like logmein to play 2 accounts at the same table be easily noticeable. Could this sort of thing be widespread.

A 2 or 3 year bad for my good self would be a good idea too. Probably save me a fortune!

5starpool

Ya, it occurred to me as well that for the original Mizzi scandal thing he should have used something like logmein rather than blatently logging on from a different contry. Would be much harder to detect.

Imposter

Looking at the list again it seems these are things that go against a sites terms and conditions which I guess is why it was asked about online play.

Another couple:
- How many have datamined on sites where it is not allowed?
- How many have rakeback on sites where it is not allowed?

Can't see there being many non-'cheaters' left

pok3rplaya

No on all accounts. BUT I have been approaced by people who wanted me to collude with them on 2 occasions.

Ste05

Ollieboy wrote: »

Have you cheat online:

If you have done any of the following than your answer should be yes.

1. Purchase or sold your account to another player so he could use it.
2. Set-up 2 accounts on the same site without permission from the site operator
3. Use MSM or Skype etc to discuss hands while in play and these discussion influence your decision
4. Set up or used a current account to share with other players to win additional rake or prize's etc.
5. Allowed someone else to use your account to finish a game for you or did like wise for them.

Feel free to add additional type of cheating that you think full-fills the critera.

1. No,
2. Yes, for RB purposes years ago, don't play on the site/ account any more.
3. No - but is this really cheating unless it's collusion??
4. No
5. Yes once, a friend asked me to finish a cheap tournament when his internet died, I did it without thinking what I did was wrong.

Goodluck2me

No.5 really depends on the motives imo, if its for profiteering then its a no no, but if its purely logistical then i dont mind it tbh.

hotspur

I have:
2. Set up several accounts on same site without permission. But never for nefarious purposes.
3. I have chatted on a messaging service with a player I was playing with in the past and maybe a couple of time mentioned hands, but quite parenthetically. Certainly never intending to gain an advantage.
5. I have played tournaments for other people once or twice, but never taken over one once it started.

And I still regard myself as being entirely scrupulous in my online play. There's a whole world of difference between violating terms and conditions and cheating in the sense that we ordinarily mean it. Just like there's a world of difference between lending someone a DVD and making and selling copies of it.

If you aren't trying to gain an unfair advantage then it isn't cheating in my eyes. F*** terms and conditions, if you read them closely enough they all say the site has a right to come over to your house and fist you while singing the American national anthem. I'll take my ethical guidance from gambling companies when I take health advice from Marlboro.

nickdundee

I've just finished reading an article in the February issue of WPT written by a David Eistenstein. He is a poker coach and uses Skype to talk to his students while they play. He mentions that his fee is $100 an hour and he gets 50% of any cashes. He also states that he talked his student out of going AI at least once and the student followed his advice on numerous other occasions as well. I've never used a poker coach but i assume since David openly admits coaching in this way that it must be widespread?

The tournament in question doesn't seem to be recent judged by some of his comments but he doesn't mention that anything he did was in any way wrong.

cooker3

No to all although I was asked to finish tournament for someone last week and I agreed but they got knocked out. It was a $10 180 stt, I wouldn't have a problem doing it in that case when there is a genuine reason for it

ocallagh

Yes to 2,3 and 5

ionapaul

Yes to 2, but as Hotspur said, not for nefarious purposes. The site called me a day later and deleted my old (un-used) account upon consultation, no problem. I could see 3 being fine in many instances (coaching, etc...).

RedJoker

1. No
2. No
3. Yes, coaching via skype and aimpro, I had a bad internet connection at the time so there was terrible lag which meant I couldn't really get an opinion anyway. I often had my action in before I got an opinion on it and nearly every time he said to do what I had already done (within a BB or two). I ended up losing money for the session.
4. No
5. No

denashpot

cheating at online poker is for scumbags! shame on the cheaters!!:(

Rb

Yeah to #3.

Requiem4adream

With regards to #3, it's clearly the most widespread and pandemic of all the above. So many people have aim/msn/yahoo messenger, and talk to friends online. I know without msn or aim my days would be a lot longer. Sometimes i'd be close to a FT and i hit TIME on a tricky decision and a friend would ask "whatcha got?" and i'd say "2 pair" or whatever. Personally whatever they say next will never influence me, im my own person if i think 2 pair is good i call, if i think im behind i fold. Simple as that. Even if you go a step further and if i say to them "i have 2 pair what would you do?", their answer is still pretty much irrelevant, you might as well ask yourself "what would Phil Ivery do here?" because at the end of the day it's you and you alone at the mouse who can call/raise/fold.

How about a situation where you're in Vegas for the WSOP and go up to the hotel room to play a tourny online and your mate sits beside you when you play.... obviously you're gonna discuss hands but the decision is yours and you're gaining no more of an advantage than you would by having a poker book open beside the laptop.

If the poll asked how many here have multi-accounted a tourny/colluded/chip-dumped etc i'm pretty sure it'd be close to 0.

dougee19

1. no, but i did lend it to people so its kind of a yes. i just didnt buy it or sell it, i dont abuse friends
2. yes, many a time, many a site
3. yes
4. no, being honest, i really should and probably will in the future.
5. yes(never allowed anyone play for me unless connection went, and have played a good few when people go away from computers)


so its more or less 4/5 with 5/5 coming up


i also like this one

6. have you ever used someone else's account to abuse the image they have on the site

6. yes

:D:D:D

Ollieboy

I post this thread in relation to people's view on the Sorel thread.

Most people have cheat in some form, but see this as part of the game, or if someone else does it, its ok for me to do it. We all seem to have a very relax attitude to the rules of poker online.

I've said for ages, if all athlete's were allowed to take drugs, it would level the playing field, this view seems to be a common thread in most peoples reponses.

I don't think any one poster felt he was gulity of cheating, but many were and many more that decided not to post were a response.

The answers are irrelevant, but it proves that some type of cheating is widespread at all levels.

Just to give people my view of online cheating.

MTT - lots of top pro players using multi-accounts in the same tournaments. Also a number of players using share databases on players to gather information. Very few players if any really are buying accounts. I think Sorel is 1 example, but most people have to much pride in themselves to sell a account when they have the chance to win a major event. Collusion is there, but not widespread, biggest problem is with multi-accounts, where chip dumping can go on, but the odds of overcoming a 3000 plus playing field is so slim, that this advantage is very small in percentages. I think 8/10 tournments are safe and cheating effects them very little.

STT - due to the high rake on these games, cheating is not really worthwhile unless you can get 1, 2 most of the time. It would take a lot of playing STT to make it profitable over a long period of time. I do believe there is people using average players in the start of these games, etc. But table selection is important in STT, so cheating is not going to give you that big of advantage. 7/10

CASH - I think cheating and collusion here can be widespread. Its so easy to have 2 or 3 friends on the same table, using the same bankroll and using there table position to win a lot of pots without showdown. I can't imagine that cheating is not profitable in cash games 5/10

Just my general view, I also think cheating is widespread at cash tables in Vegas, I've notice a lot of regular players team up on tourist and clean them out at a table. I remember 3 years ago sitting at a tables, cleaning out 2 pro's to only come back the following night with the table been set-up with now well know female player joining us, one nice juicy seat left for me and the blinds had been doubled from the night before. I walk by and went to a different casino, but I feel there is easy money to be made in live poker if you can also work as a team.

tipp86

With regards to stts.I see a crazy scenario with irisheyes where players can sit at a computer and play the same stt as the player sitting next to them.There is widespread collusion going on as there is many internet cafes in ireland specifically for this sites use.Its the only site i know that allows this maybe im wrong?

OilBeefHooked2

hotspur wrote: »

I have:
2. Set up several accounts on same site without permission. But never for nefarious purposes.
3. I have chatted on a messaging service with a player I was playing with in the past and maybe a couple of time mentioned hands, but quite parenthetically. Certainly never intending to gain an advantage.
5. I have played tournaments for other people once or twice, but never taken over one once it started.

And I still regard myself as being entirely scrupulous in my online play. There's a whole world of difference between violating terms and conditions and cheating in the sense that we ordinarily mean it. Just like there's a world of difference between lending someone a DVD and making and selling copies of it.

If you aren't trying to gain an unfair advantage then it isn't cheating in my eyes. F*** terms and conditions, if you read them closely enough they all say the site has a right to come over to your house and fist you while singing the American national anthem. I'll take my ethical guidance from gambling companies when I take health advice from Marlboro.

.

DEEP THROAT

Ollieboy wrote: »

Have you cheat online:

If you have done any of the following than your answer should be yes.

1. Purchase or sold your account to another player so he could use it.
2. Set-up 2 accounts on the same site without permission from the site operator
3. Use MSM or Skype etc to discuss hands while in play and these discussion influence your decision
4. Set up or used a current account to share with other players to win additional rake or prize's etc.
5. Allowed someone else to use your account to finish a game for you or did like wise for them.

Feel free to add additional type of cheating that you think full-fills the critera.

57% of respondents say they never have "cheated".....

57% of respondents don't have more than one i-poker account....

Read the small print you can't have 2 even if it is through a different skin.


Ollie tbh most of these cheating mechanisms seem to be more of a social interaction with friends and not part of the systematic and aggressive online cheating that happens ( the ones that make money from it!!!!! )

Figure out how to stop that rather than 2 mates discussing hands ( when there is only one of them with a hand ) or people using the same account to get better rake back etc...

On the subject of MSN it reminds me of a funny story I heard about 2 well known regular posters from Cork who tried a bit of hand sharing whilst playing omaha on the full tilt site.... The focus moved from MSN to FT as he clicked die ( this """AQAUTIC MAMAL""" isn't the brightest ) and he proceeded to type AC7H2SQD into the chatbox during the hand.......:eek::eek::eek: