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Managers....do you prefer male or female?

  • 30-11-2007 3:08pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,367 ✭✭✭✭


    I wanted to ask this here, not in work and jobs to get the ladies opinion.

    I’ve had a few managers/bosses in my time and I’ve found that having a female for a boss much harder then having a male boss. I find this disturbing as I’ve always firmly believed that women are just as capable as men in the workplace and we need to push through the glass ceiling and get more women in senior positions in companies.

    However, I’ve been thinking recently that in my experience women are much harder to work under. That maybe they think they have to be bitches to get to the top. I’m thinking of two females team leaders I’ve had in the past who’ve been a nightmare to work under, constant criticism, no praise, inconsistent directions, lack of interest in doing tasks themselves but expecting you to do them, sharp sly comments, unwilling to take criticism themselves or listen to your opinion etc.

    I’ve also had two male bosses who were very easy to work for, always going out of the way to say please and thank you when you do something, praising you on a job well done, getting involved in a hands-on way and listening to your input. They were also both more laid back about “process” and “best practice, giving you a chance to do things your way as long as it got the job done.

    I’ve asked a few people what they and most people (especially the females) have agreed that female bosses are more difficult to deal with. The boys don’t have as much of a preference. Are women leaders harder on other females in the office?

    What do you think? My experience is limited and I don’t want to tar everyone with the same brush. Do women have to be harder and more controlling to get ahead and get respect in the workplace? What experiences have you had with team leaders? Do you think it's the person, not what gender they are?

    The reason I’m interested is that I’m sure I’ll lead a team one day so wanted to hear people’s experiences.


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭LouOB


    I have worked with both in different jobs and found that the best 'bosses' are those who have children - either male or female. I find them much more compassionate.

    Single unmarried women into their 40's and 50's I have found to be v bitter to work with.
    Single unmarried men in same category - lovely uncle figures but nasty on bad day but dont know it

    Married with children best


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭Peared


    Yeah Id prefer to work for men anyday. Obviously it comes down to the specific person yadda yadda but generally I would. Also have a male doctor, would want a male driving instructor and find it easier to get on with men in general. Not sure if this is just a personality thing, you know the way women are supposed to be mens women or womens women. I love the girlies too though ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26 Susipoo


    I thought I was alone in thinking this! I've always found it much easier to work for men. This biggest difference is approachability I find.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    In my experience so far, Women have been the hardest to work under. And I have done a lot of different jobs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    Have to agree that men are easier to work under. I have had great bosses both male and female and also terrible bosses of both genders but from my experience men have been the better all around managers


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭metaoblivia


    Have to agree. I've had good bosses of either sex, but when I think of the bosses I've had and really disliked them - all women.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tree


    women can be alright to work for, but they can turn at the drop of a hat. the lads tend to be more stable and predictable to work for.

    also, NEVER WORK IN A JOB WHERE THERE ARE ONLY WOMEN, it's the most horrible bitchy environment ever.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,495 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Women. Not used to the power, so abuse it


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Silverfish


    Women are much harder to work for I've found. General cattiness and mind-changes, and more indirect.


    I currently work with all men, thirty technicians and four straight-talking no-bull**** managery type blokes, and its the most awesome working environment ever.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭cazzy


    I find it depends on the person not whats between their legs !
    Worked with some really good women and some really good men and had some terrible men and some terrible women as bosses also.#
    I really couldnt generalise.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Malteaser!


    LouOB wrote: »
    I have worked with both in different jobs and found that the best 'bosses' are those who have children - either male or female. I find them much more compassionate.

    Single unmarried women into their 40's and 50's I have found to be v bitter to work with.
    Single unmarried men in same category - lovely uncle figures but nasty on bad day but dont know it

    Married with children best

    That's very true actually, I've never thought about it like that!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    I have had some nice single women in their late 30's early 40's as a boss, also had some bitches :D Same with men.
    I think on a whole though, women have more to prove because there is still a divide in the workplace, well established workplace.... newer companies i do not think have any differences.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,201 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Women are definitely harder to work for, and more prone to running things based on their emotions and influenced by the things watna mentions.

    Example: I once witnessed a female manager stroll into her office with her (all female) team leaders in tow, giggling like a schoolgirl about her new "Sex in the city" skirt. :rolleyes: The same one would be heard (loudly) waffling about utter ****e on the phone to her mates during the day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 159 ✭✭DAWNRISER


    :Woman are definitley the hardest to work for.
    They feel the need to dominate and PROVE something.
    And then theres the whole female jealousy thing.
    Give me a male boss anyday


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭SarahSassy


    My last two bosses have been women and I much prefer working for men... My current boss is a dose and not a good team person or a good manager... Men all the way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,613 ✭✭✭✭Clare Bear


    I've worked under 2 women, both bitches, you never knew where you stood with them. Men are so much easier to work for, if you fook up just pull the silly girlie routine, works a charm everytime. I get away with murder :D Having said that I've always had really sound male bosses who I've had a laugh with so I've been lucky. I don't think I'd take a job if I knew the boss was a woman...too much hassle. In my experience.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 197 ✭✭smartypants


    in my experience i have seen more women mangers being complained and bitched about by both sexes than men. I always found that more women tend to feel the need to micro manage (which is a very annoying trait) than men :D

    im a bloke and not being biased, this is purely from experience


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 458 ✭✭SubjectSean


    This thread would seem to furnish ample anecdotal evidence that men are better than women. Women are bitches to work for would seem to be the consensus. Good job that women have contributed so strongly throughout the ages towards so many of our major inventions or I'd start to think they are only useful for making babies :)


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 16,186 ✭✭✭✭Maple


    i had a female manager who was a complete sow. she would walk all over you, berate you in public, didn't allow for traffic or public transport delays. i quit the day she expected me to take teh falll for one of her mistakes. she actually wrote an email to a client from my account making me out to be an incompetent fool. i was completely demoralised leaving.

    my next manager was also female and was extremely fair and had a great business sense about her, very levelheaded and approachable.

    my current manager is a male and he's great, you can have a good laugh with him and he never minds if you're a few minutes late. however he can be somewhat inconsistent in his orders and there are times where i'm frustrated and think " for gods sake manage it!"

    think its person dependentt really but overall sometimes women feel they have more to prove and ride rough shod over other women.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭simu


    If people are árseholes, it's because of their own personality rather than their gender, thus rendering the original question meaningless. Me, I'd rather work for no boss but for myself tbh.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,613 ✭✭✭✭Clare Bear


    Yes but "in general" people here are saying from their own experience that women are harder to work under than men...you get exemptions to the rule in many cases obviously...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭simu


    Clare Bear wrote: »
    Yes but "in general" people here are saying from their own experience that women are harder to work under than men...you get exemptions to the rule in many cases obviously...

    Why do that though? Do the women posting itt and giving out about female bosses want such generalisations to come back and bite them when/if they become bosses some day?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,344 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I've worked with both female and male managers. The women without exception worked much harder than the men.

    More moaning went on about the women though, often from other women. It was almost as if they expected them to work even harder, while not having the same requirements of the men.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭cazzy


    Maybe it also depends on the profession - i.e. that a certain gender make better managers in some professions etc but in my experience I cant see a difference - worked with good and bad of both sexes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 968 ✭✭✭Pigletlover


    I think men are definitely easier to work under. Women are unpredictable and let their emotions get the better of them. I have found aswell that women try to hard to be liked and feel they need to be your friend. Of course, this isn't true for all women and there are good female managers/bad male ones but generally speaking I think men are easier to work under.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭SarahSassy


    simu wrote: »
    Why do that though? Do the women posting itt and giving out about female bosses want such generalisations to come back and bite them when/if they become bosses some day?

    Nope because I will definitely do it differently. I am learning from her what NOT to do and how NOT to treat people.

    I wish my female bosses were better than the male ones I have had but they just havent been....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    SarahSassy wrote: »
    Nope because I will definitely do it differently. I am learning from her what NOT to do and how NOT to treat people.


    What if that is what every woman tells themselves?
    What if it is just in our nature to be shite bosses :eek:

    I was on the phone to around 150 different businesses today, and most of the people I was on the phone to were Women. Some of them were just so hard to deal with over the phone, they were rude, abrupt and really not the kind of person you would want fronting a company. Whenever I got a Man answering, I found them more friendly and business like.
    Most of the Women that were clueless and rude did seem to sound like they were probably over 45ish and unprofessional.
    Ahh, I don't know, maybe if it were more men answering than women, then I would be having a rant about Men :)


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    In business I prefer to deal with women in general. All my contacts in suppliers etc are women. I find them less likely to bullshít funny enough and find them better to deal with. More craic. For a start you can have a chat with them and they can keep working at the same time. That multitasking lark women seem to have. :) That said I've seen the self same women deal with other women under them or on their level and they're difference in attitude. Some to a surprising degree. Maybe because I'm a bloke I don't get it so much aimed at me.

    I will say that I find women in general to be much more competitive(socially at least) than men and also more aware of the nuances of social interaction. Maybe that's why they can come across as being "bitchy" as something that just went over my head completely has been spotted by them. The interactions are definitely more subtle when compared to men's which are generally more direct.

    Could be a holdover from when we were cavemen(I'm goin somewhere with this I swear :)). Men may be more direct, basically because an argument between men has the possibility of serious injury at least in theory. Women have a lot less restraints in that case by comparison. Don't believe me? Listen to some of the things women may say to even close friends if a big argument kicks off. Things that if one man said to another would result in punches being thrown at the very least so men have to be more circumspect and direct.

    Obviously not all women or men are like this, but there are some diffs. I do think the expectations put on women are higher. Usually from other women. Same with looks and fashion etc. It's not so much the men driving all of that as women. Women dress for themselves and other women before men. Maybe it's the same thing that makes some women difficult as bosses. I've also heard far more women complain about female bosses than men do.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭pretty*monster


    Hmm, I'm a bit suprised by this thread.

    I have a biased opinion on this because I've only ever worked for women but I've never had any problems with any of my female bosses. I used to work in a hospital which as you can imagine was a completely female dominated workplace, there was a certain ammounbt of bitchiness I suppose, but no more than I would imagine exists in any normal work place.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,367 ✭✭✭✭watna


    Thanks for all the responses everyone. Tis very interesting. I'm in a newish job and my female boss is lovely but I've had a lot of bad experiences in the past and she seems to be an exception! i was just wondering was I alone in my experiences, I guess I'm not.

    I feel bad though that women in leadership positions seem to have such a bad reputation. I hope I can remember what I didn't like in a manger if I'm ever in a leadership position.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭Peared


    We can be our own worst enemies, we really can. Not just in relation to work either. The one thing I really think women do more than men is let their own insecurities colour their view of fellow women. We are probably all guilty of this at one time or another even though it can be hard to admit to. Its the worst sounding cliche but really, we need to stick together a bit more. I think the work environment gives a situation where there is power and/or a pecking order so these traits are more visible :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,568 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    I find men easier to work for, but I find wimmins easier to work with.

    I've also been in nightmarish team lead situations finding myself managing women much older than myself. You're in a no-win situation to begin with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭Dimitri


    First off let me agree with the poster who said that it is entirely down to the individual as to whether thay are an idiot or not as opposed to a gender bias. But to address the perception that women are generally harder to work for then men one must ask why they are in the position in the first place. In the public sector there is a quota attached to new promotions which must be filled by women. This means that in a number of cases women are being promoted not for their ability or skills etc but simply for being women. As a result there has been a large increase in the levels of bullying across the board, the theory goes that if someone isn't cut out for the job and still gets it they are going to be frustrated because they don't know what they are meant to be doing, invariably this is taken out on the staff working below them. This theory applies to men as well as women but seeing as there is a trend to promote women not because they are the best applicant but so as to advertise just how equal an equal opportunities employer the public sector really is. Sadly if this trend is maintained over a long period of time then the perception will become ingrained once more that only men should be in positions of power which will be an awful shame for the women currently in the work who are well trained well educated and aree currently building experience in their chose fields.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,334 ✭✭✭tampopo


    To add to the broad sweeping generalisations, I've found it worse to work for a woman.

    My wife's a teamleader in her company. Mostly girls on her team. When recruiting a newbie, she won't hire a woman with children, a newly wed, and if she could get away with it, a woman of childbearing age.

    I was horrified when she told me what she was up to. She's not Irish. I said "you can't do that, you can't do that, it's completely illegal. You can't ask if anyone has children."

    She smiled slyly at me and said that her manager taught her a trick, ask people about themselves and it comes out whether they've children...as people love to talk about themselves.

    I was gutted. She'd be the first to throw the gender-card in any situation, and here she was discriminating, herself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    It shouldn't be a problem for people to admit that certain male traits can make men better managers, after all, no one denies that being better at multi-tasking makes women better than men at certain jobs.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26 laughin'joe


    I have worked with both men and women and to be honest I think women have this point to prove, when you think about the whole show was run by men up till a good few years ago "equailty" came in...but I find women since it has come in they have got worse. I mean their just very hard on people in general and never admit when they are wrong. We have people in HR here who are so nice but then you have the "head honco" who runs the show a....woman and what a b*tch. All the other people in HR are cool women and men bar this one in "power" a right l'il hitler she tries to twist everything you say or write in an e-mail...don't worry I have tonnes of evidence on this subject as proof of her "nit picking". I think it is all down to some women feel they need to be seen as a bi*ch to hold their positions and so no one will question them...then again they could be all just mad hahaha!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26 laughin'joe


    I have worked with both men and women and to be honest I think women have this point to prove, when you think about the whole show was run by men up till a good few years ago "equailty" came in...but I find women since it has come in they have got worse. I mean their just very hard on people in general and never admit when they are wrong. We have people in HR here who are so nice but then you have the "head honco" who runs the show a....woman and what a b*tch. All the other people in HR are cool women and men bar this one in "power" a right l'il hitler she tries to twist everything you say or write in an e-mail...don't worry I have tonnes of evidence on this subject as proof of her "nit picking". I think it is all down to some women feel they need to be seen as a bi*ch to hold their positions and so no one will question them...then again they could be all just mad :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,568 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    no one denies that being better at multi-tasking makes women better than men at certain jobs.
    It's a complete myth that women are better multi-taskers.

    If you disagree, do point me in the direction of a paper in any respectable journal of neuroscience and I'll gladly back down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    It's a complete myth that women are better multi-taskers.

    If you disagree, do point me in the direction of a paper in any respectable journal of neuroscience and I'll gladly back down.

    Well, I for one am hopeless at multi tasking.

    I can read maps though :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LuckyStar


    Women are in general bitches to work for.

    Take the supervisor (now manager) in my last job.
    Constantly took her own insercurities out on me.

    She was overweight- slagged me for having "no boobs" (mine are C/D's).
    She failed college after doing 2nd year twice- told me I was thick (I have a 4 year degree)
    The guy she fancied liked me- she told me I was ugly.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    i would prefer to work with men than women ! women tend to be too bitchy!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭Flinty


    I've had 2 women bosses and 6 men. The 2 women were hated by everyone under them. One used to come out of meetings screaming (literally). They both seemed to be particularly tough on the other women on the team.

    All 6 men have been fine...I got on really well with 4 and the other 2 not so (just not my kind of person), but they were always fair, which is all you can ask for really.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Mrs. MacGyver


    Men are the best to work for, they are direct and you always know where you stand.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 Madge07


    watna wrote: »
    I wanted to ask this here, not in work and jobs to get the ladies opinion.

    I’ve had a few managers/bosses in my time and I’ve found that having a female for a boss much harder then having a male boss. I find this disturbing as I’ve always firmly believed that women are just as capable as men in the workplace and we need to push through the glass ceiling and get more women in senior positions in companies.

    However, I’ve been thinking recently that in my experience women are much harder to work under. That maybe they think they have to be bitches to get to the top. I’m thinking of two females team leaders I’ve had in the past who’ve been a nightmare to work under, constant criticism, no praise, inconsistent directions, lack of interest in doing tasks themselves but expecting you to do them, sharp sly comments, unwilling to take criticism themselves or listen to your opinion etc.

    I’ve also had two male bosses who were very easy to work for, always going out of the way to say please and thank you when you do something, praising you on a job well done, getting involved in a hands-on way and listening to your input. They were also both more laid back about “process” and “best practice, giving you a chance to do things your way as long as it got the job done.

    I’ve asked a few people what they and most people (especially the females) have agreed that female bosses are more difficult to deal with. The boys don’t have as much of a preference. Are women leaders harder on other females in the office?

    What do you think? My experience is limited and I don’t want to tar everyone with the same brush. Do women have to be harder and more controlling to get ahead and get respect in the workplace? What experiences have you had with team leaders? Do you think it's the person, not what gender they are?

    The reason I’m interested is that I’m sure I’ll lead a team one day so wanted to hear people’s experiences.



    Sounds like we work in the same office,
    women are so much harder to work for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,196 ✭✭✭Crumble Froo


    i <3 my old boss. who was female. i was bricking myself going into my interview, and she made it just so friendly and open, and as much a chat as an exam type thing... was never anything less than accommodatnig, friendly, open and always polite and/or apologetic when she had to ask me to do extra hours etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭padser


    tampopo wrote: »
    To add to the broad sweeping generalisations, I've found it worse to work for a woman.

    My wife's a teamleader in her company. Mostly girls on her team. When recruiting a newbie, she won't hire a woman with children, a newly wed, and if she could get away with it, a woman of childbearing age.

    I was horrified when she told me what she was up to. She's not Irish. I said "you can't do that, you can't do that, it's completely illegal. You can't ask if anyone has children."

    She smiled slyly at me and said that her manager taught her a trick, ask people about themselves and it comes out whether they've children...as people love to talk about themselves.

    I was gutted. She'd be the first to throw the gender-card in any situation, and here she was discriminating, herself.

    If you think about it makes sense though. If you have two candidates in front of you for a job (be they male or female) one with children, one without - and they are identical in every other respect obviously I would go for the one without children.

    Now factor in that the worst possible time for woman would be child bearing age - they get knocked up and your looking at replacing them for MONTHS at a time AND if they don't work out getting rid of them is exceptionally difficult as they can throw the pregency thing at you which, legally, is very strong.

    She is just being sensible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,196 ✭✭✭Crumble Froo


    so because im in my mid 20s to 30s, and have absolutely no intention of having kids, i could lose out on a job, cos im female?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,900 ✭✭✭Quality


    IT is easier for a Woman to work under a Man Boss IMHO!!

    ;);)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 432 ✭✭IamBeowulf


    I love women as human beings but I've just found more female bosses than male bosses very difficult to work for Im very easygoing and Im not at all sexist/misogynist. My gf agres---alot of female manager-types feel the need to assert their power excessively in order to compete with their male counterparts, and by doing so tend to be sneaky, mean and unreasonable.

    Not ALLL---one female manager I worked for was an absolute gem, so kind and helpful, yet as determined as any of the bst male managers. She was very confident though, and therein lies the main problem---most b1tchy managers (female OR male) suffer from insecurity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭kmick


    Mostly female bosses and never had an issue with any of them. Like males they had strengths and weaknesses, My two cents

    Women
    Pros
    Very good at pushing through their ideas
    Can control large teams more efficently than men
    Can control large projects in a more structured way
    Tend to be analytical when thinking through a problem

    Cons
    Tendency to micromanage
    Generally less interested in developing personal relationships
    Not good at managing 'difficult' employees
    Poor at delegation
    Afraid to make a mistake

    Men
    Pros
    Make decisions more quickly
    Dont micromange
    You can go drinking with them and build a relationship that way
    Less likely to have a time of month or make personal comments
    More open to (unusual) ideas for fixing a problem
    More likely to spend money to address an issue
    Not afraid to make a mistake

    Cons
    Sometimes too hands off
    Often poor at planning large scale tasks
    Lots of delegation often when not appropriate
    Lazier than women
    Have a longer memory when things go wrong


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