Advice needed for old timer

McGinty

At times i'd like to give myself a good boot in the rear end, but here is my dilemnia. I have been single four just over four years, when I broke up with my ex at the time I knew I was encountering a recurring problem, so I felt I needed to deal with my inner stuff to handle/deal with that stuff, anyhow, I have had on/off very casual relationships, in a nutshell mainly sexual relationships only and they don't suit me. From time to time I have joined online dating sites or tried to meet people in the pub/club situation, my experience has been so far 1) I meet men I like but they don't like me 2) I meet men who like me, and I really, really like them on a pasionate level but... their lifestyle is not good for me on an emotional level ie: they are attached. 3) I meet a nice guy, he is respectable, kind, passionless, boring and I DON'T FANCY HIM. These kind of men are kind, respectable, I know I should fancy them, they are good men but **** me, I find my insides shivel up inside, I know if I let my whole side out I'd scare the **** out of them, I have spent half the day today despairing, I can't deal with the headwreckers, but neither can I deal with mr, nice but passive guy. I am beginning to feel that maybe there is something lacking in me, maybe I am still not ready for a grown up relationship, but what I want to ask those in a reasobaly happy relationship was 1) did you know you fancied your partner within a few dates 2) even if they wind you up at times, do you have a lot in common, and were you in a good place mentally when you met your partner? Any other advice is very, very welcome, I feel despairing of myself, its like I meet a nice guy and I cant handle it, I tend to attract perverts or prudes and I just want to meet middle of the road men.

Dudess

When you say "old timer" what age are you?

Earthhorse

McGinty wrote: »

3) I meet a nice guy, he is respectable, kind, passionless, boring and I DON'T FANCY HIM. These kind of men are kind, respectable, I know I should fancy them, they are good men but **** me, I find my insides shivel up inside, I know if I let my whole side out I'd scare the **** out of them,

Maybe, rather than anticipating how they will react when you let your "whole side" out you might want to let a little of yourself shine through and see what the response is. Who knows, it could be positive. Maybe they need to see a bit of passion from you before they themselves display it. If not, well you are in no worse a position for it (in fact a better position as you know for sure they are passionless and not for you).

McGinty wrote: »

I tend to attract perverts or prudes and I just want to meet middle of the road men.

Perhaps you do, or perhaps people come across as perverts or prudes, loud or quiet, sombre or funny, when we first meet them but in truth are far more balanced than we give them credit for. There is no such thing as a person who is dead centre middle of the road; all of us lie somewhere along a scale, but the truth is most of us don't lie too far from the norm i.e. we are perverts about some things and prudish about others.

Whatever course of action you take I wish you the best of luck with it.

McGinty

I'm 36, so maybe not that old, I look somewhat younger.

Thank you earthhorse for your lovely answer, basically I tend to show my more open side, and either it is recieved in a good light or it is pushed away, when meeting the date I had yesterday, basically when he gave me a peck on the lips, I returned it in a more open manner and he recoiled, this has often happened in the past, basically men are often either all over me or they run away and I am all over them. However thank you for your insight it is much appreciated.

The Sweeper

McGinty - do you respond to every advance you receive?

May sound like a strange question, but I'm wondering if you feel you need to respond nicely and politely and considerately to everyone who shows an interest in you, or have you ever straight up cut someone dead in the water, even though there was apparently nothing wrong with them?

I mean, it's easy to let someone crash and burn if they're obviously being massively rude or inappropriate or something, but have you ever gone 'No thanks, I'm not interested' without feeling you need to explain why?

I know someone who feels obligated to date anyone who asks her for a date and who finds it really difficult to go 'Hi, sorry, I don't want to see you again, I just don't want to, thanks, please don't call me again.' This person has ended up with a plethora of horrendous relationships because she has no moral compass, isn't choosy enough and wastes her time dating people she's not attracted to because (a) they asked her, and (b) there's nothing obviously wrong with them.

Imagine you're going shopping and you want a knee-length, long-sleeved red dress.

Do you look at pink dresses? Yellow dresses? Black dresses? Dresses with no sleeves? Ankle length dresses? Mini dresses? Are you now standing in the checkout queue with a blue sleeveless minidress over your arm just because it's a bargain and there's nothing wrong with it?

My point is you have to be choosy. If you know what you want, or have even a vague IDEA of what you want, and it's a realistic expectation (we'd all love a 6ft 2 chisel-jawed millionaire who's hung like a donkey and gives us a dozen roses twice a week, loves to cook and doesn't believe women should do housework, but seriously) don't lower your standards.

It's okay to not go on a second date with someone you're not attracted to.
It's okay to dump someone, even if they're the nicest guy on the planet, because you know in your heart of hearts it'll never be what you want.
It's okay to NOT waste a bunch of time on a bunch of people who aren't right for you.

You do need a partner you're attracted to, and you do need to have something in common with them - otherwise you'll end up with a companionship and not a relationship.

McGinty

Thank you, thank you, thank you MJD, basically when I meet a nice man I really try to like him, and yes I have done the dress analogy, maybe love is the same, but I guess my fear here is maybe I am being too fussy, I know I don't fancy the guy I have begun dating, but I am wondering if I am being too fussy not giving it a chance, I have met him three times and I like him as a person but in terms of fancying him, there is nothing/nada/zilch/ and he strikes me as too up tight and zipped up as well which doesn't help.

If I were looking for a red dress, well he is not that but I wonder if I am too fussy or should I hold out until I meet someone who suits me.

Carrigart Exile

Trouble is nice middle of the road men have come up but you shun them. Sounds like you are attracted to B****** and attract B******.

luckat

The middle-of-the-road types may or may not be nice. I went out with a guy in a platonic way years ago a few times, and friends said "He's lovely - he obviously fancies you - why don't you go for it?"

It came to nothing - I didn't go for it - and a few years later he published an article about how every relationship he had turned violent, he just ended up beating the women he loved.

You're probably seeing things in too extreme a way right now. Maybe you just haven't met the right person for you to live happily with. Keep looking! There are good guys out there.

Beruthiel

McGinty wrote: »

I know I don't fancy the guy I have begun dating, but I am wondering if I am being too fussy not giving it a chance, I have met him three times and I like him as a person but in terms of fancying him, there is nothing/nada/zilch

Not fancying someone has got absolutely nothing to do with being too fussy. A man either turns you on, or he doesn't.
When you meet someone for the first time and start dating them you should have a strong urge to strip them naked asap, if that isn't there at the start then get rid of him as you're wasting your time, and his.
The relationship is doomed to failure and you're just settling.

LegacyUser

Beruthiel wrote: »

When you meet someone for the first time and start dating them you should have a strong urge to strip them naked asap, if that isn't there at the start then get rid of him as you're wasting your time, and his.

ah now.... I've ended up having passionate and lengthy relationships with people who I didn't fancy when I met them, but ended up fancying the pants off them as I got to know them. It's not always there at the beginning! I'd always give someone the benefit of the doubt - and a couple of dates - if I liked them; BUT if I recoil from the peck on the cheek at the end of the night, maybe not then.

McGinty

May sound like a strange question, but I'm wondering if you feel you need to respond nicely and politely and considerately to everyone who shows an interest in you, or have you ever straight up cut someone dead in the water, even though there was apparently nothing wrong with them?

I mean, it's easy to let someone crash and burn if they're obviously being massively rude or inappropriate or something, but have you ever gone 'No thanks, I'm not interested' without feeling you need to explain why?

I didn't answer your question properly, but your response hit home, in answer I do tend to feel the need to respond nicely and find it hugely difficult to say no, and yes to the other op I have attracted b-types, and I tend to get cut up with guilt when I want to stop seeing them. Thanks for all the replies so far.

Wibbs

Very good advice from all of the previous posters. I reckon Carrigart Exile has a point too. I do veer slightly from some of the ideas though.

Every relationship is delicate balance that constantly shifts. There are some rules in a good one, but there is a hell of a lot of variability too.

Attraction is a funny thing. I know for me there are women I meet that attract me very much as people, but beyond that I would have little interest. I've gotten some good mates from that (I know I've caused confusion too though). There are women that attract me physically, but would have little interest in hanging around if that physical interest waxed and waned, as it will over time. While mostly I can tell which category they fall into, sometimes the physical can grow. Like joJoe90, one of the best relationships I had was with a woman who I wasn't particularly physically in to, but really liked as a person. The physical grew over time and actually became more passionate. I'm still friends with her today although we split.

Some get lucky with the so called "spark". I've noticed the ones that do are more open to that though. They're more open to something different and have not such a narrow idea of what attracts them. I'm not so sure you can change that if you're not like that though.

A cynics word on the "spark" and the "one". It's very common especially among women as a way of judging the merits of a guy. It's basically a gut physical instinct that says there may be a future with this person. This guy would be a good father to my children so I'll take the risk of sleeping with him and possibly getting pregnant by him. Good father could either be physically or emotionally long term kinda thing. Of course it's not expressed consciously at the time if ever, but biologically at the very back of it all that's what it boils down to. It's one of those things that can go either way, yet is still judged as a good yardstick. If it fails, then you didn't have the spark, or you found the spark with another. If it doesn't then it was "meant to be" and you "just knew". It's divination after the fact. Every Single Time. If it was such an accurate method then people would rarely split up. Personally I have found that people can be very good at trying to fit a square peg in a round hole on the basis of the spark bit.

This can be quite subtle and complex too. One recent study has shown that women on the pill when they meet their partners first, have a much higher chance of dumping said partner if they come off the pill. Apparently the traits a woman may look for when she is pregnant(which the pill tricks the body into thinking) are different to the kind of man she wants when she's fertile and not pregnant. Women can even vary over what kind of man they're attracted too over the course of their menstrual cycle. Favouring higher testosterone males when they're fertile and more compliant males when they're not. No wonder we're all confused.:D

Putting it another way, wanting to rip their clothes off as the primary basis of whether they will make a good partner long term is one reason why the divorce rates are so high. Passion ebbs and flows. Sometimes the tide can go out altogether. What happens if you don't want to rip their clothes off for a long period of time, ten years down the line? Leave? Romantic expectations for many have never been so high or so rooted in a hollywood fantasy. Me, gun to my head, given a choice between passion and companionship? I would go with the latter even though sex is very important for me. I certainly would rate how comfortable I was with them and how much kindness they had in them above and beyond the sexual side. Sex is easy to come by, the rest not so much. Again for me I would reckon that I could comfortably have sex with 2 or 3 out of every 10 women I meet. Sometimes it could be good or even great sex. Out of all the women I have met(or had sex with) though, I've only been in love twice and the one I referenced earlier I wasn't that pushed physically at first. The second one we knew each other for 6 months on a daily basis before we had sex.

McGinty wrote: »

basically men are often either all over me or they run away and I am all over them.

Back to Carrigart Exile's point in a way. We all are somewhat attracted to those who back off. They are displaying a higher opinion of themselves than they give to us. That's attractive. Some more than others do this and there is some gender and age variance too. I would reckon and it is IMHO and a generalisation, that men will be intrigued by finding out a woman fancies them even if they don't particularly fancy her. Women often write a man off if they find out he likes them first. Especially if he's too obvious.

As a woman you do have different advantages to men. For a start it's a sellers market and as a woman you do the choosing who to sell to for the most part. Secondly you have far less chance of falling into friendzone with a guy. Myself and joJoe90 have both fallen for someone before we wanted to jump their bones. This puts you at an advantage looking for love. Keep your eyes heart and mind open and take it slow. Don't think too much, just go for it. See where that takes you.

Dudess

joJoe90 wrote: »

ah now.... I've ended up having passionate and lengthy relationships with people who I didn't fancy when I met them, but ended up fancying the pants off them as I got to know them. It's not always there at the beginning!

Agreed. Physical attraction isn't guaranteed straightaway but it can develop. I used to think the same as Beruthiel, that if I didn't fancy the guy then there was no point. I missed out on three relationships because of it. These guys (all workmates) pursued me (at separate times!) I politely declined as I wasn't physically attracted to them. Then I got to know them and the really wonderful, funny, eventually sexy guys they were. But of course by the time I'd worked this out, they had girlfriends. And it wasn't a case of me suddenly being interested in them now that they had girlfriends, I'm not like that. It was after a long while of me getting to know them.

Sleepy

I know if I let my whole side out I'd scare the **** out of them

How do you know?

Relationships involve a huge amount of risk at the start. Opening yourself up to someone leaves you vulnerable to them not liking you *but* there's also the chance that they'll love you for who you are. MAJD gives good advice in telling you not to drop your standards. Look for someone who likes all of you (or someone who likes 99% of you and can handle the 1% of the stuff they dislike about you).

Thing is: to find out who that person is, you have to open up to them and expose yourself to the risk of them not liking you. Sure, it's a risk but it's one you have to take. What happens if you can't give someone that you really like the benefit of the doubt that they'll like all of you is that you present them with the opportunity to fall in love with someone you're not.

As you might guess from my post on this I've been on the opposite end of this quite recently where my girlfriend was afraid to show me a side of her that she thought I didn't realise was there. I'd kind of guessed it anyway and when I gave her an opening to tell me about it she was scared but told me about it and I love that side of her as much as the rest of her, if anything it's made me like her more.

How Strange

McGinty wrote: »

From time to time I have joined online dating sites or tried to meet people in the pub/club situation, my experience has been so far 1) I meet men I like but they don't like me 2) I meet men who like me, and I really, really like them on a pasionate level but... their lifestyle is not good for me on an emotional level ie: they are attached. 3) I meet a nice guy, he is respectable, kind, passionless, boring and I DON'T FANCY HIM.These kind of men are kind, respectable, I know I should fancy them, they are good men but **** me, I find my insides shivel up inside,

From this I would guess that you go on dates with anyone and everyone who asks you. IMO, that's not a good idea. You have to be selective (not fussy) so there has to be some spark there - he has nice eyes or a nice smile or he is into the same music, films etc as you but something.
Going on dates for the sake of it can be demoralising and I really don't subscribe to the theory that if you kiss enough toads you'll find a prince. You may very well just end up kissing even more toads.

I know if I let my whole side out I'd scare the **** out of them,

I don't really know what you mean by this. Do you mean that you are so crazy wild that nice men just can't handle you? Or do you suppose that you are too interesting and fun for the nice ones and only the b*st*rds get you?

I want to ask those in a reasobaly happy relationship was 1) did you know you fancied your partner within a few dates 2) even if they wind you up at times, do you have a lot in common, and were you in a good place mentally when you met your partner?

With my bf it wasn't exploding fireworks on first sight. It took me a few dates to realise that yeh I like this guy. He was very quiet at first so he was abit of hard work. I wasn't in a good place when I met him; I'd had a couple of bad experiences with b*st*rds and I'd just got to the point where I was enjoying being single. Then I met the bf so really if he hadn't have pursued me by always wanting to meet up I probably would've let it fizzle out. It took me a couple of months to get over that.
When we first met I didn't think we had too much in common but now I realise we are two peas in a pod and have an awful lot in common. I suppose it takes a long time to get to know someone to the point that you can see how alike you are.

its like I meet a nice guy and I cant handle it, I tend to attract perverts or prudes and I just want to meet middle of the road men.

I suppose you just have to give them a chance and try not to analyse it all too much.

I disagree with Beruthiel as I don't think that wanting to rip someone's clothes off is an indication of anything other than pure sexual attraction which can fizzle out in a couple of weeks.

Dating is a minefield and you have to trust your instincts. He mightn't be your type but if there is something about him that you like then give him a chance. I personally don't believe in love at first sight; there is such a thing as lust at first sight but love takes alot longer to develop.

Nevyn

There is an old saying which says

Men trade love for sex and women trade sex for love.

It has been noted that girls that grow up with out a positive father figure in their life will often trade sex for affection and often at a far to early age

You have to have love, respect and affection for yourself before you can expect it of anyone, it's certainly not easy but you will not find it with out if you can't find it with in.

Everyone swings from one extreme to another in various parts of their lives and sometimes it takes that before we know what we want, so you know that you want neither of those extremes of men in you life, good for you.

Keep pure you highest ideal, you will get there.

Mrs OBumble

McGinty wrote: »

I'm 36, so maybe not that old, I look somewhat younger.

I know everyone else is being all positive ... but

By the mid-thirties, pretty much all marriageable men are married. Yes, there are exceptions, but they're rare. You are likely to have to settle for "close enough" at best, if at all. There are biological reasons for this (to do with the proportion of males born, their faster death rate, and also the spread of high and low intelligence .. far greater spread for males than females: no I can't quote references right now, but have read well-researched articles).

Also, I know counsellors who firmly believe that if you're not married by 35, then your chances of making a successful marriage are very low, because you're just too set in your ways as a single person by then. Yes, I know, there are others who have the opposite opinion, but there are more than a few who don't, so I think that as a guideline (not absolute rule) it has some sense.

Before the crowd flames me for being unsympathetic: I'm 40 and "still single". Have done years of sorting myself out in the hope of being able to form a meaningful relationship. So far it hasn't worked, and I'm pretty close to concluding that the supermarket-car-part analogy (the good ones are taken, the rest are disabled or on the other side of the road) has much truth, and that I'd best spend my time building a meaningful, sustainable, life by myself.

So all I'm saying, really, is to keep in mind the possibility that a long-term relationship may not happen for you, and you may need to plan your life accordingly.

Loxosceles

McGinty: I know exactly how you feel. And I'm mid-30s. I won't give advice, I'll just share an interesting story.

I had a profile on a casual encounter site year after I broke up with my ex about 1 1/2 yrs ago, and had plenty of so-so encounters, and some pointless. (As I say through experience, a good sh!te is always better than bad sex.) What I do have to say, is that it took a while, but I finally found someone wonderful, and it happened out of left field. I felt very jaded after a series of relationships that were utter fail in the end, the last one my ex, and a heartbreak. And the reason it was a heartbreak was because he was very cynical and ultimately left me hanging when I was actually willing to go the distance (for the first time in years). After that, same for me: I was very cynical after being burned and left lying in an emotional pit. So came and went a year of so-so and pointless shags where I kept myself emotionally safe, trying to put men between myself and my memories.

By the way, nobody be taken aback by my sincerity; I come from the land of Dr. Phil. I am not Irish, I come from a dating culture where female sexual expression has been acceptable since the Pill arrived in the 60s and Roe V Wade in 1973. I come from a world of drive-ins and parking overlooks in high school, knock-first college dorms, and "your place or mine" in my 20s, which is all normal and acceptable in modern city life. Ireland is not fully there yet, but in the end, innocence has been the best thing for me. Here's why.

The reason my new love happened out of left field, is because I actually found (stumbled upon) someone who was a late bloomer (late 20s before he was with anyone), is far more innocent (only 1 long term relationship which ended amicably), and thus far more willing to give love and affection without fear or cynicism. On our first meet a couple of weeks ago I had not felt such warmth and sincerity, since forever. I could not believe I had found someone so sincere at my age (mid-30s) who is close to my age (early 30s). And only because he is both shy and focused on career, but otherwise wonderful when I finally coaxed him out of his shell. But mind you, he is also quite sexy.

It was not until after I had been burned after 18 years (with dry spells, admittedly) of relationships, a few years of marriage, and a few flings, and become ruthlessly cynical, that I knew what such innocence was worth. I can say that now, I am a thousand times more likely to be faithful and treat him right than I would have been ten years ago. I had to get my wild oats in, and get sick and tired of sowing them, eventually.

I know I've struck gold and I'm being more patient and willing than I've ever been to keep him comfortable and feeling very appreciated, which is a challenge given my mid-30s biological clock occasionally makes my eyes wander. And, he has that little bit of naughtiness about him, a curiosity, which I find very sexy. So he may seem a bit shy and boring on the outside but when I coaxed him out, he's a sweet little naughty beast and a gentle genius. And there is nothing sexier than a fully sincere good hard warm squeeze which melts my extremely cynical prickly heart. And believe you me, if there was a heart in there, it was in a lead bunker covered ten feet thick in gorse and nettles and wearing my war face.

So in essence, I'm saying that although it makes us feel better to share pain in common with someone, mutual cynicism appears in my experience to be quite toxic to relationships. It is his innocence and sincerity, essentially, which is charming out a desire for genuine, real-life devotion in me that I wouldn't have had the personal integrity to pursue before.

So that's me, for what it's worth.

lox.

McGinty

Thanks to everyone for your wonderful replies but I have decided not to pursue things with the man I was dating, not because of him but me, I realise I need more work and I'm still carrying that baggy monster; to be honest when ever I get close to someone I get terrified and find ways (unconsciously at the time) of driving a wedge between us, until I stop that behaviour I am never going to allow a relationship to develop.

Thing is: to find out who that person is, you have to open up to them and expose yourself to the risk of them not liking you. Sure, it's a risk but it's one you have to take. What happens if you can't give someone that you really like the benefit of the doubt that they'll like all of you is that you present them with the opportunity to fall in love with someone you're not.

As you might guess from my post on this I've been on the opposite end of this quite recently where my girlfriend was afraid to show me a side of her that she thought I didn't realise was there. I'd kind of guessed it anyway and when I gave her an opening to tell me about it she was scared but told me about it and I love that side of her as much as the rest of her, if anything it's made me like her more

Sleepy, that is wonderful to hear but I know that right now I am not prepared emotionally to take that risk but it is nice to hear that.

Just for the record I responded to this man's ad, we had a lot in common, he has a nice smile and eyes, not wow looking but nice, I could have been more patient, but I have learned that it wasn't him that was the problem, it is within me. I feel too burnt out and stressed when I am with someone so I have decided to learn to enjoy myself and be content in myself, I believe the rest will follow.

Loxosceles - thank you for your wonderful story, maybe it will happen for me, because I am at that jaded point where I've had enough.

Thaed - don't get me started about my father - fnucking cliched, but oh so true.

Finally the one good thing is I am not driven my my biological clock, I don't really want any more children (I have one), I have been married so I am not looking to be remarried either. I find it is difficult to meet men who don't want children, the amount that do want them is incredible, so I don't think it is just women with biological clocks, the men are as bad.

Thanks to all of your replies, it has really helped

Nevyn

McGinty wrote: »

Just for the record I responded to this man's ad, we had a lot in common, he has a nice smile and eyes, not wow looking but nice, I could have been more patient, but I have learned that it wasn't him that was the problem, it is within me. I feel too burnt out and stressed when I am with someone so I have decided to learn to enjoy myself and be content in myself, I believe the rest will follow.

Good.

Seriously such self realizations are hard, so many people run from them and just can face what is going on with themselves. They use all sorts of distractions from drink to drugs to shells of relationships to not deal with the issue or to keep themselves distracted. You are not doing that, you are looking honestly at it and your self and that takes a lot of courage.

But you can't be brave every moment of everyday, take you vicorties when you can find them, think long term and learn to enjoy you life with out needing any one to fullfill you.

McGinty wrote: »

Thaed - don't get me started about my father - fnucking cliched, but oh so true.

McGinty wrote: »

Finally the one good thing is I am not driven my my biological clock, I don't really want any more children (I have one), I have been married so I am not looking to be remarried either. I find it is difficult to meet men who don't want children, the amount that do want them is incredible, so I don't think it is just women with biological clocks, the men are as bad.

Thanks to all of your replies, it has really helped

Oh there are a lot of men in the 30 to 35 age bracket that want kids, it's werid ( well at least from my point of view).

There are two book which if you can get your hand on and have a look at and if they make any sesne to you I would suggest you read them.
I’m OK - You’re OK by Thomas A Harris it was published in the 60s so most libraries have a copy and the other is called They fúck you up: how to survive family life by by Oliver James.

The title of They fúck you up comes from a peom which I am mindful of myself due to the fact I have kids and have wanted to break certain patterns myself.

Philip Larkin - This Be The Verse

They fúck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fúcked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

Good luck on your journey.

Sleepy

McGinty wrote: »

Sleepy, that is wonderful to hear but I know that right now I am not prepared emotionally to take that risk but it is nice to hear that.

This might sound a little harsh, but if you're not prepared to take that risk, you're not prepared for a relationship. The old expression 'love like you've never been hurt' has a lot of wisdom in it for such a trite saying. Entering a relationship without being able to open up to the other person and showing them who you really are is a receipe for disaster - either you'll be so worried about maintaining the facade that this side of your personality doesn't exist that you'll hit the implode button on the relationship or you'll have gotten so involved that it'll hurt all the more if the man you're seeing finds that side of you so unattractive as to not want to be with you. Fair heart never won fair maiden and a hidden heart will never be found.

Nevyn

A faint heart never won fair lady

kmick

First read this statement (which is not mine)

Most of the time we go through the day, through our activities, our work, our relationships, our conversations, and very rarely do we ground ourselves in an awareness of our bodies. We are lost in our thoughts, our feelings, our emotions, our stories, our plans. A very simple guide or check on this state of being lost is to pay attention to those times when you feel like you are rushing. Rushing does not have to do with speed. You can rush moving slowly, and you can rush moving quickly.

We are rushing when we feel as if we are toppling forward. Our minds run ahead of ourselves; they are out there where we want to get to, instead of being settled back in our bodies. The feeling of rushing is good feedback. Whenever we are not present, right then, in that situation, we should stop and take a few deep breaths. Settle into the body again. Feel yourself sitting. Feel the step of a walk. Be in your body. - Joseph Goldstein

Then try and apply to to your situation when you meet somebody who could be right for you i.e. not in a relationship with someone else. Instead of seeing the guy, deciding he is boring on the spot and letting your mind fly elsewhere ground yourself and try and connect with the guy.

The first time you meet this may not happen. The 10th time you see him maybe you begin to see sides to him you have not before as you both loosen up and begin to feel more comfortable. For my own Personal experience I would have to go out with someone at least 10 times before I could decide if I liked them or not. An initial attracation might exist but it could fizzle out over time or conversely I might be friends with the person and decide I would like to know them better.

I am am probably not explaining it very well but give it more of a chance to grow and stay in the moment instead of always wanting to be on to the next thing.

Dagon

Wibbs:

A cynics word on the "spark" and the "one". It's very common especially among women as a way of judging the merits of a guy. It's basically a gut physical instinct that says there may be a future with this person. This guy would be a good father to my children so I'll take the risk of sleeping with him and possibly getting pregnant by him. Good father could either be physically or emotionally long term kinda thing. Of course it's not expressed consciously at the time if ever, but biologically at the very back of it all that's what it boils down to. It's one of those things that can go either way, yet is still judged as a good yardstick. If it fails, then you didn't have the spark, or you found the spark with another. If it doesn't then it was "meant to be" and you "just knew". It's divination after the fact. Every Single Time. If it was such an accurate method then people would rarely split up. Personally I have found that people can be very good at trying to fit a square peg in a round hole on the basis of the spark bit.

This is very interesting Wibbs. Particularly the last part..

Speaking from my own relationship experience, I would say that if you do find "the spark", then be very careful. It does not mean things will be easy. Myself and my partner found this amazing spark, and nearly 2 years later we still have that amazing spark. It sends electrical vibrations through both of our bodies when we touch, and it is very intense and immensely pleasurable. I don't know if I could settle for less! But boy... it has been a difficult relationship at times. At it's worst, "trying to fit a square peg in a round hole" would be a very accurate description, but at it's best it is pure ecstacy. It is held in a very delicate balance, and I honestly don't know which way it will go in the long term. It swings from extremes of pleasure and pain... a rollercoaster! But I am enjoying it for now, and hopeing that somehow we will "settle in" to each other some day. Do you know what I mean by that? The spark is amazing, but there is another feeling that I am missing... it's the feeling of "coming home" to another hunman being. When we get that, I will know... if we never get that, I don't know what will happen.

So remember; if you find the spark it's amazing. Just make sure you have plenty of common ground, or a similar upbringing or emotional background... or you may have a lot of pain!

Dudess

Interesting. So the fantastic sex, intense physical connection etc - check.
But the everyday couply stuff like watching TV together, "did you remember to pick up milk" kinda stuff - not always there?

Wibbs

IMHO and if I was going to be all non romantic about it, the pure "spark" is simply your bodies telling you that this person would be good to have offspring with. After all that's what ripping each others clothes off is all about. Your immune systems and physical value are equal and complimentary. That's pretty much it. Finding that, many people may ignore other incompatibilities, such as personal and emotional. In extreme cases they'll ignore dangerous incompatibilities. When you see studies that women are more attracted to more male faces when they are at their most fertile and more feminised males when they're not(or pregnant), you can see how it can be confusing. One ex of mine left me for another guy who was very quiet and a nice guy actually. He also would have given her a more stable future at the time. In every other way, he was quite mousy and bland. I would have been more aggressive(socially not physically) and defo not quiet at the time. If it had been up to her she would have continued to sleep with me, but have him as a long term prospect(she actually asked for that, I declined). Maybe that stuff had something to do with that.

In the long term, where marriage and babies are concerned, compatibility on the emotional front would be generally more successful than the physical. That waxes and wanes anyway. If you don't believe that, add ten years.:D I think it is also an age thing. Younger women(and I assume men) are more interested in the spark, but down the line other needs may be important. I have certainly seen that with my female friends. The men they went out with in their 30's were significantly different to the ones they went out with in their 20's. A lot less of the "bad boys" for a start.

For me, the spark is nice but there's something else I need for it to go to a higher level. I've had the spark with about 6 women, but that extra with only two.

Nevyn

Dudess wrote: »

Interesting. So the fantastic sex, intense physical connection etc - check.
But the everyday couply stuff like watching TV together, "did you remember to pick up milk" kinda stuff - not always there?

It happens there have been people in my life that I have had a wonder sexual ( animalistc ) chemistry with but could not spend an hour in the same room reading quietly with or have any sort of adult discussion with.

Passion isn't everything but as far as I am concerned a relationship with out any passion is nothing.

Dudess

Yeah, it's why we have one-night stands and fukk-buddy relationships.

microgirl

McGinty wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your wonderful replies but I have decided not to pursue things with the man I was dating, not because of him but me, I realise I need more work and I'm still carrying that baggy monster; to be honest when ever I get close to someone I get terrified and find ways (unconsciously at the time) of driving a wedge between us, until I stop that behaviour I am never going to allow a relationship to develop.

Heh, if you find out how to do that ^^^ let me know. That pretty much describes me, and what I've realised about myself, and I have no effing clue where to go from here. I've even tried counselling, but the problems remain.

And reading JustMary's post hasn't bloody helped (as unfortunately I *do* want a lifelong relationship/marriage and I *do* want kids)

But good on you for recognising that there's a problem lying within you. I still believe that's only the tip of the iceberg, but at least you know the iceberg is there now

Wibbs

I will say this much; while JustMary's post brought up some interesting points about later in life relationships, it's only a very small part of it and it's also cultural. In the US, where a lot of this research comes from(I suspect this one too)most people get married quite young. Certainly much younger than here in Ireland. That changes things for a start. Add into that the massive house price increases as a factor that inhibits many from setting up house at younger ages and that changes things too. People staying longer in education and working harder and longer to establish careers and that's another factor. Ireland has and had(for various reasons) one of the highest age ranges for people getting married anyway. All big factors in this culture.

If psychologists reckon this is such a factor, I wouldn't let it worry you too much. There are more shrinks in the world than ever before, yet there are more people in need of them not less. Enough said about their efficacy. Plus on an almost daily basis we're told something different about human nature and behaviour. What does that tell you?:) In any case you are an individual, so even if all of that was true, it doesn't mean it has to be true for you. Be the exception not the rule.

Now I will admit it is harder for a woman of 40 to hook up, than for a man of the same age but even here you don't have to follow the rules either.

Put it another way. In living memory in my family there hasn't been a guy who got married until his 40's. Good marriages for the most part too. One of the best couples I know didn't even meet until he was in his 50's and she was 42. They have two kids to boot and hadn't been married before.

Dudess

Yeah, being of the view that I just don't think a person's chances of love vanish when they get to a certain age (sure they may diminish but not disappear completely) I often wonder whether there's some self-fulfilling prophecy going on.

dublinlawyer

McGinty wrote: »

my experience has been so far 1) I meet men I like but they don't like me 2) I meet men who like me, and I really, really like them on a pasionate level but... their lifestyle is not good for me on an emotional level ie: they are attached. 3) I meet a nice guy, he is respectable, kind, passionless, boring and I DON'T FANCY HIM. These kind of men are kind, respectable, I know I should fancy them, they are good men ...its like I meet a nice guy and I cant handle it, I tend to attract perverts or prudes and I just want to meet middle of the road men.

First I wouldn't put men into categories. Everyone is different. But using the categories you have 1, 2, and 3. 1 and 2 are not use. You cant make someone like you and theres no point in being with someone who is attached.
That leaves people who dont fall into category 1 and 2 which you presume only means "a guy, he is respectable, kind, passionless, boring and I DON'T FANCY HIM." whereas it in fact means anyone who likes you and you like them and isnt attached ie someone whos isnt in category 1 or 2.
And it seems the qualities you go for are for him to be respectable, kind and passionate, exciting. But you cant presume that the only people who will have these qualities will be either attached or will not like you. Keep the faith. The best things come to those who wait.

SarahSassy

joJoe90 wrote: »

ah now.... I've ended up having passionate and lengthy relationships with people who I didn't fancy when I met them, but ended up fancying the pants off them as I got to know them. It's not always there at the beginning! I'd always give someone the benefit of the doubt - and a couple of dates - if I liked them; BUT if I recoil from the peck on the cheek at the end of the night, maybe not then.

+1