Should pubs ,shops be allowed to sell drink to pregnant women?

gamer

I was listening to rte 1 today, it says in the us ,its against the law to sell beer or spirits to pregnant women .I think the law should be the same here ,as its been proven that even a few pints can harm the health of a baby or cause children to be born with a disability ,or brain abnormalitys.
WHY should women be allowed to harm their children?DO most women even know how serious the risk is of drinking during pregnancy.Should pregnant women be allowed to buy cigarettes?

armour87

Interesting topic, It would seem wrong to outright ban any sale of alcohol or tobacco...and they would always get it if they wanted anyway.
Maybe there should be more information out there for mothers to be on the dangers of certain things on their babies but also they should be informed off all the healthy, positive things they can do for the baby.

~Rebel~

Theres 2 sides to this, yes on one side, kids should not be subjected to the risks of the mother drinking before childbirth, but then on the otherside it moves us closer to the Nanny State where noone can be trusted to do the right thing and we need rules for every little thing to make sure we never step out of line in any way.

Id be more for educating on the risks of Any amount of alcohol rather then bringing in more laws. A lot of these problems arise from ignorance rather then malice.

Even just for conveniant everyday life this seems a bit odd, imagine a 30year old pregnant lady not being legally allowed to buy a bottle of wine to bring to a dinner party for example. I think if people are informed they'll largely make the right decisions. (and this isn't going to stop the ones who want to drink anyway).

Triangle

Hmmm - it also is proven that the older a woman is the more chance of a serious genetic malformity/disease.

So should we also put an age limit on pregnant women? (I'm basically asking where do you stop along this line of thought?)

There has to be some line where a person is capable of making their own decisions and not having them made for them by 'big brother'.

Edit: Can you link to the study that says a few pints can cause problems? I'd always been under the impression that regularily having a few pints was a danger. I'd like to read about this, perhaps if this is true then a campaign for more awareness would be good.

Reku

Triangle wrote: »

Hmmm - it also is proven that the older a woman is the more chance of a serious genetic malformity/disease.

Older the man is too also has a significant impact, it's just that women are demonised for it more since society tends to view it as their fault that they're not having kids until their late 30's/early 40's.

Rb

Yes, it should be illegal to serve them alcohol or cigarettes. It may turn things into somewhat of a nanny state, as mentioned above, but there are far, far, far too many retards in this country who'll ignore the facts and still have the odd drink or cigarette due to their own f*cking selfishness.

Either that or we should make it entirely legal to go around slapping or spitting on pregnant womens faces should we see them drinking or smoking. Whichever suits really.

Dragan

I find it funny that in the "20 pack" thread we are all telling people how they need to make their own choices, through a socially acceptable form of sexually transmitted disease into the mix and it's cool to make their decisions for them. :rolleyes:

Blisterman

What about if she's buying beer for her husband?

the dee

When I worked in a newsagents I always felt bad selling cigarettes to pregnant women. But you can't legislate against that. It'd be a gross breach of personal freedom.

Anyway, I don't think a drink every now and then is bad for a pregnant woman, as long as she's not getting wasted. I think a glass of red wine once in a while is actually supposed to be good. (read that somewhere, don't quote me on it.) And my mum had 1 or 2 cigarettes a day while pregnant with me and I turned out fine, no birth defects or asthma or anything. Admittedly, I do smoke now, but hey, what can you do?

Dinter

Off the top of my head I'd probably agree with the OP.

However when you think of the difficulties with enforcing it etc it would seem unworkable.

However, the best thing about bringing in a ban like this would be that should a woman decide to drink or smoke during pregnancy I'd say they'd be much more aware of the dangers. If the government has banned it there would have to be some reason.

A woman who wished to smoke or drink could still easily get access to either but having to ask someone else to procure it should highlight the dangers to them.

In saying that it's common knowlege that smoking whilst pregnant can cause difficulties yet it doesn't seem to matter to some wonmen.

armour87

Would the preganant women have to wear stickers?

YOU DON'T ALWAYS KNOW! You could refuse a fatty.

Earthhorse

Honestly, I think the kind of person who would smoke while pregnant or drink to the extent that it would damage the unborn child, isn't going to give up just because of a ban. They'll have someone else buy it for them. Not saying we shouldn't legislate for it (the smoking anyway) just saying it wouldn't have much effect in the end.

themadchef

I never drank alcohol or smoked while pregnant, but that was a personal choice.I always go back on the cigarettes. I think its awful to see pregnant women drinking and ten times worse to see them smoking.

BUT, what next if they actively ban pregnant people from this. Do they follow this up by banning all parents from smoking and drinking entirely? Its no less healthy after. Granted the child is out of the womb but smoking in the same room as kids or coming home plastered to a young family is no less acceptable is it. Thing with this is though both parents will be responsible, not just the mothers....cant see it ever happening but it is a possibility. Imagine.

Triangle

farohar wrote: »

Older the man is too also has a significant impact, it's just that women are demonised for it more since society tends to view it as their fault that they're not having kids until their late 30's/early 40's.

As far as i remember from Biology 101 the woman's eggs are all premade so they are affected by more 'poisons' through a persons life where a man creates sperm as and when he needs it so it's not even near comparable.

(This is from biology 12 years ago though, the mind's a bit forgetfull on this)

WindSock

It'd be a hard thing to do. How can you know if they are pregnent sometimes?

nomorebadtown

personal responsibility - **** off and stop telling people how to live their lives.

that is all.

WindSock

Triangle wrote: »

As far as i remember from Biology 101 the woman's eggs are all premade so they are affected by more 'poisons' through a persons life where a man creates sperm as and when he needs it so it's not even near comparable.

(This is from biology 12 years ago though, the mind's a bit forgetfull on this)

There is Foetal Alcohol Syndrome though, which is quite bad. Sure if all of our eggs got affected by us drinking, God help us

Padraig Mor

gamer wrote: »

its been proven that even a few pints can harm the health of a baby or cause children to be born with a disability ,or brain abnormalitys.

No it hasn't.

Heavy drinking has been shown to lead to increased risk. No link has been established for light or moderate drinking. For the record, my wife is pregnant and has maybe a glass of wine once a week. Her doctor has advised her that this is no problem (in fact, he told her she could drink plenty more if she wanted). Any *facts* (not just conjecture) that I have seen say the same. Getting blotto - different matter.

mickoneill30

Would it make any difference? If you're daft enough to drink whilst pregnant I'm sure you're old enough to find somebody who'll be daft enough to buy drink for you.

We all know that smoking seriously damages the health of the smoker and has the potential to harm the health of those who get your secondary smoke. So should we ban those too?

Riesen_Meal

This is crap, as much as no one likes to see preggers women smoking and drinking it is a breach of personal freedom, let them make up their own mind, no point banning them from buying things.....

Silly Rte1!!!

Reku

Triangle wrote: »

As far as i remember from Biology 101 the woman's eggs are all premade so they are affected by more 'poisons' through a persons life where a man creates sperm as and when he needs it so it's not even near comparable.

(This is from biology 12 years ago though, the mind's a bit forgetfull on this)

Man's sperm is made through the splitting of cells into 2 cells each with only half the normal number of chromosomes. As we go about our daily lives our chromosomes are under regular attack from various mutagenic sources; UV & other ionising radiations, supposedly free radicals from our foods (no idea about this one), carcinogenic chemicals from both external and internal sources (from of the body's own processes). The DNA has its own error checking mechanisms but they do not always catch a mistake and as such these mistakes build up through our lives, in some cases causing cancer, in most remaining benign. And yet you think it is only the womens' sex cells that degrade as they age?
Enter:

effect of man's age on genetic disorders in children

into google and you'll see just how many diseases in children are linked to increased age of the paternal DNA donor (the father).

humanji

I think they should be able to buy what they want, but the person selling them should "tut" and shake their head disapprovingly.

Slow Motion

Of course they should be banned from drinking and smoking! In fact all women should be made to carry a doctors certificate to prove they are not pregnent just fat! They should also not be allowed out in public without a male member of their family and ..........Oh wait......wrong country......

passive

Meh... Won't our kids be better off if all the knacker young fella's trying to beat them up/rob their stuff have stunted growth from their ma's drinking habits?

Kur4mA

WindSock wrote: »

It'd be a hard thing to do. How can you know if they are pregnent sometimes?

The wimmin should all have to wear one of them "Baby on board" stickers that usually go on the back of your car. Srsly tho, I do agree that it should be illegal to sell alcohol to pregnant women. Freedom shmeedom. They are in the process of carrying and growing another human life. Their freedom to drink and smoke as much as they want should be removed imo. And before any of the wimmins on here jump down my throat, I also believe the husband/boyfriend/partner should have to do the same thing.

RosieJoe

Fieldog wrote: »

This is crap, as much as no one likes to see preggers women smoking and drinking it is a breach of personal freedom, let them make up their own mind, no point banning them from buying things.....

Silly Rte1!!!

Sense at last! What gives people the right to dictate how others should live? In the last while we have had this thread and a thread on banning people smoking in cars with kids. At the end of the day it is up to the parent/expectant mother to make a choice not someone else!

Remember the fiasco they had in trying to stop kids being brought to the pub, wasn't that a resounding failure!

Reku

So would it be up to social services or the ISPCC to intervene on behalf of the phoetus?

WindSock

Nah feck it. Let the stupid women live with the consequences of drinking while up the duff.
But in saying that, my Mam smokes a lot and probably took a snifter or two and I turned out bokay

If you are going to ban selling booze and fags to preggar women, then ban selling fast food to fatties too.

WindSock

farohar wrote: »

So would it be up to social services or the ISPCC to intervene on behalf of the phoetus?

I suppose it could happen, protecting the rights of the unborn etc.
If abortion is ever legalised then no one can do anything about it.

Nevyn

Dragan wrote: »

through a socially acceptable form of sexually transmitted disease into the mix and it's cool to make their decisions for them. :rolleyes:

Are you saying pregnancy is a sexually transmitted disease ?

The Queen

What if the woman is buying cigs/booze for someone else? While I disagree with women who smoke while pregnant, it is their choice.

Also, I heard on the radio recently - drinking in MODERATION is not as bad as everyone claims. Doctors say don't drink at all.... But if he was to say to a sensible woman you can drink a little, she will take on board the moderation part. Say it to a 18/19 year old who's life revolves around bushing? It's just safer to say no drinking across the board.

How is this law enforced in the States? What about a woman who is just a few weeks pregnant? Do they make all women take pregnancy tests?! At this stage, it's just an embryo, has not yet become a foetus? Quite a delicate stage I would believe.

It would be a ridiculous law to bring in. One which would deny over18 females a right to purshase what they like!

WindSock wrote: »

If you are going to ban selling booze and fags to preggar women, then ban selling fast food to fatties too.

True that.

egan007

gamer wrote: »

I was listening to rte 1 today, it says in the us ,its against the law to sell beer or spirits to pregnant women .I think the law should be the same here ,as its been proven that even a few pints can harm the health of a baby or cause children to be born with a disability ,or brain abnormalitys.
WHY should women be allowed to harm their children?DO most women even know how serious the risk is of drinking during pregnancy.Should pregnant women be allowed to buy cigarettes?

WHY should women be allowed to harm their children?

Unfortunately we live in a 'free' society, I could argue that letting children think the XFactor is good music is harming them.

It's not ideal but a good society should educate and allow people to make informed decisions rather than forcing opinion into law.

jam_mac_jam

how exactly are you going to police this, for many women you cant tell if they are pregnant untill about hte fifth month, In some cases you cant be sure if somebody is overweight or pregnant. I have had this problem with wondering if I should give up my seat on trains and being a bit worried i would get it wrong. So how in the name of god is this going to be policed? all women carry a card saying if we are pregnant or not.

Is this a joke?

Reku

Thaedydal wrote: »

Are you saying pregnancy is a sexually transmitted disease ?

I do remember one boardsie having a signature to that effect that I found rather astute and amusing, it was something along the lines of:
"Life is a STD, what's worse it's terminal."

Perhaps someone can either better remember the signature, or even was the person with it, and can correct me if I've made a horrendous misquote of it.

Shiminay

You shouldn't stop selling beer and ciggs to pregnant women, you should stop stupid women getting pregnant.

Also, there are reports that a lot of pregnant women (particular in the teenager category) start smoking to have smaller babies so the birth will be easier and they won't have their body shape changed as much. Proves my first point - stop retards having kids.

moco

RosieJoe wrote: »

Sense at last! What gives people the right to dictate how others should live? In the last while we have had this thread and a thread on banning people smoking in cars with kids. At the end of the day it is up to the parent/expectant mother to make a choice not someone else!

Remember the fiasco they had in trying to stop kids being brought to the pub, wasn't that a resounding failure!

I agree, it should be up to the woman whether she drinks or not. Any responsible woman won't, or won't drink a harmful amount and the ones who would go out and get wasted while pregnant would get alcohol one way or another anyway.

Kernel32

The Queen wrote: »

How is this law enforced in the States? What about a woman who is just a few weeks pregnant? Do they make all women take pregnancy tests?! At this stage, it's just an embryo, has not yet become a foetus? Quite a delicate stage I would believe.

I am pretty sure no such law exists, at least at a federal or state level. In fact I am pretty sure most bars would be open for a lawsuit for refusing on those grounds. It's possible that some little backwoods town has some local laws allowing refusal on those grounds now which would allow a bar person to make a choice but those type of things get squashed at the state level pretty quickly. It seems like people will believe anything about America.

Keep in mind this is different to a woman being charged with child abuse due to her child being born with fetal alcohol syndrome. This is very possible and probably a good idea as it shows that she may not be capable to caring for the child.

moco

Kernel32 wrote: »

I am pretty sure no such law exists, at least at a federal or state level. In fact I am pretty sure most bars would be open for a lawsuit for refusing on those grounds. It's possible that some little backwoods town has some local laws allowing refusal on those grounds now which would allow a bar person to make a choice but those type of things get squashed at the state level pretty quickly. It seems like people will believe anything about America.

Keep in mind this is different to a woman being charged with child abuse due to her child being born with fetal alcohol syndrome. This is very possible and probably a good idea as it shows that she may not be capable to caring for the child.

I would agree with this idea.

biko

I'm not surprised that the US bans this. The land of the free is turning more and more into the Soviet Union by the day. Government control all.
Here, in the land of the free-ish it should still be allowed. Banning is the lazy mans option whereas education would be better in my opinion.
At the end of the day it's a personal choice. Parents can still feed their kids crappy junk food 24x7x365, should we ban that next?

Slow Motion

biko wrote: »

I'm not surprised that the US bans this. The land of the free is turning more and more into the Soviet Union by the day. Government control all.
Here, in the land of the free-ish it should still be allowed. Banning is the lazy mans option whereas education would be better in my opinion.
At the end of the day it's a personal choice. Parents can still feed their kids crappy junk food 24x7x365, should we ban that next?

As a representative of lazy men I disagree with your statment!

faceman

While i agree people have to make their own decisions, the rights of someone not in a position to make their own decisions needs to be protected.

Id be for this ban.

*heads to pub to discuss topic with friends*

Overheal

I'm for it. My jaw drops when I'm in the room with a preggers teen and she's puffing one away every twenty minutes.

Terry

This whole idea is ridiculously laughable.

The Hill Billy

gamer wrote: »

I was listening to rte 1 today, it says in the us ,its against the law to sell beer or spirits to pregnant women .I think the law should be the same here ,as its been proven that even a few pints can harm the health of a baby or cause children to be born with a disability ,or brain abnormalitys.
WHY should women be allowed to harm their children?DO most women even know how serious the risk is of drinking during pregnancy.Should pregnant women be allowed to buy cigarettes?

I saw a thread to day on boards.ie & think that all Progressive Democrat voters & pro-nanny-state posters should be site-banned for the good of my mental health.

RosieJoe

Can you imagine the scene!

Barman to customer, sorry but I believe that you may be pregnant ( Cue beating from woman!). Could you pee into this container so that I can carry out a pregnancy test to see if I am permitted to serve you or not!

Slow Motion

RosieJoe wrote: »

Can you imagine the scene!

Barman to customer, sorry but I believe that you may be pregnant ( Cue beating from woman!). Could you pee into this container so that I can carry out a pregnancy test to see if I am permitted to serve you or not!

......Hands glass of yellow piss over to barman!

Other customer "Burman, burman, Pint of Bud please!"

"Yes sir, here you go!"

Ross_Mahon

I dont like the idea of pregnant women taking anything that is a danger to their health, they shouldn't eat bad food either. It has to effect the baby in someway.

Slow Motion

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

I dont like the idea of pregnant women taking anything that is a danger to their health, they shouldn't eat bad food either. It has to effect the baby in someway.

Fortunately, what you like or don't like is irrelavant! We are talking here about all this nanny state bull****! Let people make their own choices and live with the consequences, freedom of choice, freedom to be idiots!

Ross_Mahon

Slow Motion wrote: »

Fortunately, what you like or don't like is irrelavant! We are talking here about all this nanny state bull****! Let people make their own choices and live with the consequences, freedom of choice, freedom to be idiots!

I like the way you think...:cool:

The Hill Billy

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

I like the way you think...:cool:

And while we're at it let's incarcerate all fertile single women until they get married so we don't have to fork out for Single Parents' Allowance too.

Don't sell lollipops to kids with teeth because they cause cavities.

Ban rivers because people use them to drown themselves.

:cool: indeed.

meglome

Someone very close to our family was pregnant recently. She smoked all the way through and on a number of occasions I saw her drunk... really pissed me off to be honest. I'm not for a nanny state but I would be strongly tempted to push a ban.

At the end of the day if these children have disabilities or behavioural problems it's us as a society that will have to deal with it, not just their parents.