First roads to be declared motorways without a motorway order

murphaph

Under the roads act of last year they don't need to use a (long winded) motorway order to create a motorway so more blue signs to spring up....

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=10193&lang=ENG&loc=2270

E92

About bloody time too. I thought they'd never do it.

Looking forward to 20 km/h faster motoring:D!

But who was the clown that thought that we should still be restricted to only 100 km/h from the Dunkettle Roundabout to Watergrashill:(?

murphaph

E92 wrote: »

About bloody time too. I thought they'd never do it.

Looking forward to 20 km/h faster motoring:D!

Doesn't need to be a motorway for a 120 limit-all those roads would have opened with one or could have one imposed without being motorways!

E92

murphaph wrote: »

Doesn't need to be a motorway for a 120 limit-all those roads would have opened with one or could have one imposed without being motorways!

I realise that but Cork County Council tried to upgrade the Ballincollig bypass,the Dublin road from Dunkettle Roundabout to the M8 bit and the South Ring to 120 km/h and the NRA told them to buggar off.

And I thought the Cashel bypass was only a standard Dual Carriageway though I'm not complaining about an increase in the speed limit!

And the recent opening of the Motorway standard road from Cashel to Cahir is only 100, at least by these roads being reclassified they will get the default limit of 120 km/h.

ardmacha

Good to see it. But with the regrading you'll have someone coming on here talking about the poor L drivers or some other nonsense.

Chris_533976

Fantastic

I dont see why the Dunkettle - Watergrasshill part of the N8 isnt included though?

At least though they're finally getting off their arses and doing it.

Email sent, thanking them and imploring them to ignore the whingers and do this for the sake of the country.

Chris_533976

I wrote a very unprofessional but true email, thought I'd post it here

Hi there,



I just want to say that getting the roads designated to motorway, at long last, is a fantastic thing and will benefit the country as a whole. The removal of cyclists, tractors, people walking and other such nonsense from the dual carriageways, as well as an increased speed limit, will have an excellent safety effect.



I would implore that the Department ignore the inevitable backlash from learner drivers, farmers and other general whingers, and will go ahead with this plan. Learner drivers will complain they cant drive on these roads – their qualified driver that is with them can drive it if necessary. Farmers do not need to bring tractors onto motorways, that is dangerous and there are alternative routes. Cyclists etc just create a hazard and I cant understand a cyclist on a dual carriageway when cycling is better suited to other roads for scenery and fitness purposes.



I am just wondering, however, why the N8 section from Dunkettle to the beginning of the Fermoy bypass is not included. Given that theres an alternate route through Glanmire, I cant see any obvious reason why this cant be reclassified also. Is there any particular reason?



Also, may I recommend publishing similar papers as soon as possible for the N18 Crusheen – Gort and Gort – Oranmore schemes. As they are not in construction until later this year it may mean less unnecessary whining from various members of society.

Victor

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=10193&lang=ENG&loc=2270

Motorway Redesignation
29 January 2008

Please click on the following Links for Explanatory Leaflet on each scheme

Observations and Comments should be forwarded to the following mailbox

"Redesignation@Transport.ie" no later than 4pm Friday 28th March 2008

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/10193-0.pdf
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/10193-1.pdf
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/10193-2.pdf
http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/10193-3.pdf

E92

All we need is the eco-mentalists to object because some fool thinks that 120 km/h is so much worse for the environment(apparently a car uses 10% more fuel at 120 than at 100, though I doubt it very much, since modern cars would be well designed to be at their optimum efficiency at 120-130 km/h, the general speed limit on most European Motorways), in which case I would remind them that driving at 5 mph uses twice as much fuel as driving at 80 mph, so are going to be speeds below 5 mph as well?(thought not)

Though all these slowing down measures like speed ramps apart from slowing us down and damaging our car's undersides also wastes loads of fuel, so are we going to get rid of these as well?

I still can't believe they are upgrading the Cashel bypass to Motorway, as that road is narrower than other parts of the Motorway standard sections of the Cork-Dublin road, and is meant to be only a standard Dual Carriageway instead of a Motorway standard Dual Carriageway, though I'm not for one second complaining, the sooner we have more 120 limits on the safest roads in the country the better!

My only complaint about this long overdue but nevertheless very welcome plan is why aren't they going to reclassify other Motorway standard roads, like those on the Atlantic corridor as mentioned above, the bits of the Cork-Dublin I mentioned earlier, the South Ring, the road to Midelton from Cork and Ballincollig bypass in Cork, and the dual carriageway bit of the Cork-Limerick road as you get close to Limerick(if ever a road deserves an upgrading, this is it), the Southern Ring road in Limerick, the tunnel for Limerick and the Dundalk to the Border road which I remember seeing here already boasts a 120 limit on this side of the border?

icdg

I would probably be more worried about the Nenagh bypass than the Cashel bypass. The Nenagh bypass is an online upgrade of an S2 (albeit a rather wide one) and is getting redesignated motorway...

Whether the N2 Finglas-Ashbourne will eventually be upgraded is also a question, though what to do about the first few km northbound where the alternative route has been closed and a dodgey exit provided is something that would need to be addressed.

Athlone-Galway is the major part of the inter-urban network left out, possibly due to the Athlone Bypass needing major work before it can be redesignated.

Chris_533976

Bear in mind folks that this is just the first round. If it goes through fairly easily and people see the benefits then other stuff will follow.

Niall1234

E92 wrote: »

But who was the clown that thought that we should still be restricted to only 100 km/h from the Dunkettle Roundabout to Watergrashill:(?

I'd like to think that that section will eventually be upgraded to motorway with the previso that GLanmire to Dunkettle will have a speed limit of 100kph.

If I had my way, South Ring Road, Midleton Road and section from Dunkettle Roundabout to Interchange would all be Motorway. Would have to keep 100 kph limit on SSR though.

E92 wrote: »

Looking forward to 20 km/h faster motoring:D!

120 to 140 kph. Push that envelope.

E92

Niall1234 wrote: »

I'd like to think that that section will eventually be upgraded to motorway with the previso that GLanmire to Dunkettle will have a speed limit of 100kph.

If I had my way, South Ring Road, Midleton Road and section from Dunkettle Roundabout to Interchange would all be Motorway. Would have to keep 100 kph limit on SSR though.

120 to 140 kph. Push that envelope.

They should be all 120 at least IMO(apart from the bit of the South Ring with no hard shoulder). Ballincollig bypass is surely deserving of at least 130 IMO. I know that the start of the road to Dublin is a bit twisty, but it is a high standard and has recently been resurfaced and is therefore serving of a 120 limit too. If the Cashel bypass can get a 120 limit and Motorway status(and that isn't a Dual Carriageway built to Motorway standard either) then there is no excuse for the N8 from the Dunkettle Roundabout to Watergrasshill not having a limit of 120 km/h and Motorway status.

140 would be nice,and about as high as is really as high as you could go with the standard of driving the vast majority of Irish motorists have. If we drove like the Germans then there would be no reason in the world to have speed limits on Motorways at all!

Skyhater

icdg wrote: »

Whether the N2 Finglas-Ashbourne will eventually be upgraded is also a question, though what to do about the first few km northbound where the alternative route has been closed and a dodgey exit provided is something that would need to be addressed.

The N2 was the first road that i though of, and was disappointed not to see it on the list.
It's of the required standard and already has a 120km/h speed limit (which some might say L drivers should not be allowed to do)

To me, it's simple.... the first few KM (up to J2 I think) should be N road, with the M2 beginning after that exit.

Niall1234

E92 wrote: »

They should be all 120 at least IMO(apart from the bit of the South Ring with no hard shoulder). Ballincollig bypass is surely deserving of at least 130 IMO. I know that the start of the road to Dublin is a bit twisty, but it is a high standard and has recently been resurfaced and is therefore serving of a 120 limit too. If the Cashel bypass can get a 120 limit and Motorway status(and that isn't a Dual Carriageway built to Motorway standard either) then there is no excuse for the N8 from the Dunkettle Roundabout to Watergrasshill not having a limit of 120 km/h and Motorway status.

140 would be nice,and about as high as is really as high as you could go with the standard of driving the vast majority of Irish motorists have. If we drove like the Germans then there would be no reason in the world to have speed limits on Motorways at all!

130kph in my mind would be a sensible limit for good quality Motorways. Its the standard limit in most European countries.

Only in Italy (car mad) and Germany (too efficient for speed limits) can you drive faster.

Of course, in an ideal world, all irish drivers would be required to pass a Motorway test to drive on the Motorway. Add in variable speed limits in cases of heavy rain, snow etc and you could push 140 kph as being safe in dry conditions.

murphaph

Niall1234 wrote: »

130kph in my mind would be a sensible limit for good quality Motorways. Its the standard limit in most European countries.

I don't think it is you know

Drax

Last Monday afternoon I witnessed a horse and cart (or whatever those 2-wheeled things are called) making his way up the hard shoulder of the Cashel bypass. Truly incredible. In hindsight I should have called the Gardai but I didnt.

Would he have been legally entitled to do this?

murphaph

Drax wrote: »

Would he have been legally entitled to do this?

Yes.

Padraig Mor

I thought the South Ring, dual carriageway between Dunkettle and Carrigtohill and Ballincollig Bypass were all being upgraded too? They were definitely on the list of roads to be upgraded to 120 k/h (while still retaining N status) but I thought they had all been 'overridden' with Motorway designations by the NRA?

invincibleirish

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I thought the South Ring, dual carriageway between Dunkettle and Carrigtohill and Ballincollig Bypass were all being upgraded too? They were definitely on the list of roads to be upgraded to 120 k/h (while still retaining N status) but I thought they had all been 'overridden' with Motorway designations by the NRA?

there is no way the South Ring is capable of a 120km an hour speed limit? too twisty and busy surely?

Skyhater

Niall1234 wrote: »

130kph in my mind would be a sensible limit for good quality Motorways. Its the standard limit in most European countries.

murphaph wrote: »

I don't think it is you know

I wouldn't say it's the max speed limit in "most European countries", but there are quite a number (especially in eastern Europe) that have roads with 130km/h speeds.

See Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit#Speed_limits_in_specific_countries

Chris_533976

invincibleirish wrote: »

there is no way the South Ring is capable of a 120km an hour speed limit? too twisty and busy surely?

You could chuck restrictions on it and put it at 80 or 100kmh. As it stands, parts of it (elevated section in Douglas for instance) have no hard shoulder. It shouldnt be 120 thats for sure, the amount of weaving is ridiculous, especially with a lot of lights still not working (emails sent).

I dunno about making it a motorway though. Alternative routes, although they exist, are a bit convoluted and would increase construction traffic through the city centre.

I'd love it as motorway, but I dont think its practical.

Padraig Mor

invincibleirish wrote: »

there is no way the South Ring is capable of a 120km an hour speed limit? too twisty and busy surely?

Well Cork County Council had planned to introduce one between Mahon and Sarsfield Road IIRC but they seem to have been nixed by the NRA with their Motorway plan. You won't hit 120 on it in peak times but I don't see any problem when it's quieter.



Slightly OT: Am I right in thinking that the NRA decided to issue motorway orders (rather than up the speed limits on N roads) in order to stop inappropriate development along these roads?

patrickc

am i missing it or is the 3 lane n7 naas section still 100kph?

Chris_533976

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Slightly OT: Am I right in thinking that the NRA decided to issue motorway orders (rather than up the speed limits on N roads) in order to stop inappropriate development along these roads?

Both

I think they realise the inanity of the 100kmh speed limit on roads designed for 120. But they are also doing it to stop development, as technically a house can have a frontage onto a HQDC, but not of course a motorway. Business parks etc would be the greatest worry.

Hopefully this reclassifying will stop that worry

Our man in Havana

Just wait for all the bitching from L drivers. I would suspect the ones in Cork would be most vocal.

Victor

patrickc wrote: »

am i missing it or is the 3 lane n7 naas section still 100kph?

Lots of left-in, left-out junctions and private entrances.

Niall1234

patrickc wrote: »

am i missing it or is the 3 lane n7 naas section still 100kph?

The junctions are too poor to let it be designated as Motorway. A number of petrol stations and such which new junctions would have to be built for.



The SSR in Cork was never to be upgraded to 120kph. just the Ballincollig Bypass from the Sarsfield Road Roundabout to Ovens. Personally, the whole lot should be a Motorway with a 100 kph limit on it. Nothing drive me more crazy than tractors on the SSR in rush hour. Happens all the time and causes traffic chaos.

Chris_533976

Perhaps once the SRR interchanges are done (whenever that is, FFS the Tullamore ****ing bypass is getting higher priority than this) then they might put motorway restrictions from Dunkettle to the end of the Ballincollig bypass (and maybe even to the other side of Macroom when thats dualled), but with 100kmh or 80kmh limit from the tunnel to the Bandon road roundabout.

The Dunkettle Interchange can technically be motorway itself too, even though its full of lights, but results in convoluted alternative routes, which would fill Glanmire with traffic, especially over the old bridge that just couldnt take it. Common sense (and knowledge of the local roads) would say to keep Dunkettle roundabout and a combination of sliproads as all purpose DC, with the main roads to the north, south and east as motorway.

Niall1234

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Perhaps once the SRR interchanges are done (whenever that is, FFS the Tullamore ****ing bypass is getting higher priority than this) then they might put motorway restrictions from Dunkettle to the end of the Ballincollig bypass (and maybe even to the other side of Macroom when thats dualled), but with 100kmh or 80kmh limit from the tunnel to the Bandon road roundabout.

The Dunkettle Interchange can technically be motorway itself too, even though its full of lights, but results in convoluted alternative routes, which would fill Glanmire with traffic, especially over the old bridge that just couldnt take it. Common sense (and knowledge of the local roads) would say to keep Dunkettle roundabout and a combination of sliproads as all purpose DC, with the main roads to the north, south and east as motorway.

You're saying that the slip roads into and off the old Midleton road would have to be removed ? I agree that these are fairly important and really do take a bit of traffic off the old bridge in the centre of Glanmire.

Ideally of course you'd have a full buterrfly junction like at the red cow but long is that going to take, and is it even possible there.

ga2re2t

My two cents:

With regards L-drivers not being allowed on motorways, life is gonna get worse for them unless they get a full license. In every other country you must get anything from 5 to 30 driving lessons from an official instructor before actually getting to the stage where you can drive accompanied by any other license holder. Some of these compulsory driving lessons are carried out on motorways so equivalent L-drivers in other countries can drive on motorways. It's a ridiculous situation in Ireland whereby you can technically get a full license without any motorway experience. Ireland is gradually moving towards compulsory lessons - motorcyclists will be first:
http://www.rsa.ie/NEWS/News/Consultation_on_Compulsory_Basic_Training_for_Motorcyclists.html

For those of you who are hoping for speed limits greater than 120 km/h, I'm afraid you can keep dreaming. The differences between 120 and 140 km/h are more than you think:
Fuel consumption goes up considerably, much more than the 10% that was mentioned earlier. I saw a graph recently on this forum which pointed this out. Governments know this and so will not increase speed limits because of rising oil/energy prices and CO2 emissions.
Your angle/cone of vision decreases giving you less of a chance to see objects (e.g. animals) on the road side.
Although 140 is only 16% faster than 120, energy follows a squared relation so that a car crash at 140 is 36% more damaging than at 120.
Ireland is not a big country. The times gained by going 20 km/h faster are not enough to warrant the increase.

Sorry for being a bore

Have a nice day :rolleyes: