Deconstructing ... LuckyLloyd

Ste05

To keep this series moving, LuckyLloyd is going in next. I've skipped a couple of people but I'll come back to them next.

Same Rules:

There can be NO flaming, this isn't a chance for people to have a shot at who ever goes in. Entrants to the Deconstructing series will have their thick skins on but forum rule breaches will be dealt swiftly and harshly with by a 1 week ban, so you have all been warned.

Just to spell it out: NO PERSONAL ATTACKS, criticise and critique his game and NOTHING else!

Keep it constructive and good luck LuckyLloyd

Theresalwaysone

Why the skipping? I dont even know who you skipped but whats the point in having a thread with a list of names if you are going to skip people?

Flipper

Hey Lloyd, I think we've only played once together and it was the closing stages on the PPP Xmas Cracker '06. Even though it was a long time ago, some details of the final two tables and indeed, the final table spring to mind. I remember you playing the role of the hyper aggressive maniac to perfection. I think you lost a big pot to Frisbee which kind of stopped you in your tracks. At the final table, I think I was your button which wasn't ideal! You seemed annoyed with being a shortish stack and were very happy to take marginal spots at any time without any view to the very top-heavy pauout. I'm not sure if you've since focused this aggression because at the time, I remember thinking that there was a certain degree of totally unfocused re-raising etc. But maybe I'm just a nit.

Other than that, anytime I've met you, you've come across as an extremely friendly fella and very chatty. Enjoy the grilling.

ditpoker

Yay!!!

ditpoker

i might post on your play later, but the one MAJOR thing I have to say about your game would be your TERRIBLE...TERRIBLE... bankroll management and your apathy toward smaller games.

you won €30k which effectively was jbravado-esque spin from €150 - €1,000 - €30,000. But lets look at your 2007. you pi$$ed away poker moneys throughout the year, you were working to break even , you were playing every 500+ game you could get your hands on and you were the value in any game of €30-€100 that you played. you took one or two games in the €50 region seriously when myself and anto also played and you crushed them. you are waaaaaaaaay better than your average dublin tourney player, but you dont apply that skill, rarely if ever.

I have only ever paid into a €150 game, have played €300 games in drogheda or the SE but always by qualification. I am a moneys nit. i happily play €20 - €100 games. As a result I am never under poker/moneys pressure. In 2007 give or take about €200 we made the same from poker... and I didn't have a €16,000 win. Playing €500 games regularly is a major leak in your game. you have ooodles and ooodles of cash, disposable cash for a chap your age, which you could destroy poker games with, but playing €500 games regularly will kill that. you need a big score every couple of months.

effectively.
ditpoker = john turturro in rounders
aodea = matt damon in rounders
lloyd = ed norton in rounders
ste buckley = john malkovic in rounders

LuckyLloyd

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Goodluck2me

From whenever Ive played agaisnt you ive noticed one or two things.
- That you tilt WAY too easily
- Feel that if someone re-raises you its a personal insult and steam for a bit
- Play very capably in tournament, but can get overly attached to playing by the book. When your 10BB or less its not always push or fold, there are infinite situations where this doesnt have to be the case.
- I think you have improved quite a bit though since I met you first, but you also have to give your opponents a little bit more credit at times for hands, even donkeys get aces

GL2M

ollyk1

goodluck2me wrote: »

- That you tilt WAY too easily

It's been a long time since I played with you Lloyd but this was the thing I spotted back then. It may have all changed since and its probably mainly due to tiredness anyway which I think you've tired to address by being more selective in the games you play.

I really haven't played with you enough to talk about hand or situational tendencies.

DeadParrot

ditpoker wrote: »

your apathy toward smaller games.

That's something I've noticed too. Overheard you a few times saying ah I busted out, I couldnt concentrate (read care) on a €75/€50/whatever the smaller stakes were game. If you applied yourself to every game and every hand to you ability your ROI would jump way up.

Lloyd, you obviously have a great analytical poker mind. This serves you great when playing against skilled or semi skilled players but can cause you to over think certain situations against players who have never heard of squeezing/trapping etc, sometimes if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, its a duck. Thankfully the table punching chair throwing 'wild man' image seems to have gone (from the times I've played with you or seen you play).

Personally, from what I've seen (I'm fairly quiet at the tables and generally just listen & observe) you have got the ability to be a major force in Irish poker if you applied yourself correctly.

smurph

Few things ive noticed,

Probably repeating what has been said. Few months back you were playing in Lukes Friday night game, We were on the final table, you were tired looking and actually had decided, meh im off home, so you kept going in with Marginal hands..... If your tired or have to work early in the morning than don't play.

You should update your blog a bit more, maybe use it kind of like a mini-poker tracker. I know you commented on my blog as being a bit of a "Dear Diary":rolleyes::rolleyes: which is true, but I post a bit about every game I play, warts and all so to speak. you have only posted about the GJP win in 2007, the Irish open, and the Fitz 1K game, (your rugby one was excellent though)

I think your overall game has improved no end. I met you after day 1 of the 1K game and you said that it was the worse day of poker you had ever gone though, and felt completely inadequate as a player. The "Old Lloyd" would probably have had a meltdown, The new Lloyd came back on day 2 refreshed and ended up splitting the tournament, so well done.

Lastly if your going to fold Queens or Kings preflop, never show, you are only going to be shown hands that beat you, and also leave yourself wide open for re-raises left right and centre.

Lastly smile some more:D:D:D

5starpool

It's been quite a while since I have played with you Lloyd, but one impression I have about you is that you you 'auto push' too freely imo, and also use the button too much, i.e. it is not law that you have to raise the co or button when it is folded to you. As I've said though, I haven't near as much table time as others with you, and little of it in the last year.

GL.

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phantom_lord

Haven't played with you much really, so not a lot to say. The advice you gave on msn during that deepstack tourny was pretty good, thanks for that.

only thing i'd say is i think you really should value bet way thinner than you do.

oh, and you're clearly a way better limit player than me.

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phantom_lord

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You are lol at limit.

IT'S A STUPID STUPID GAME!!

califano

Hi Lloyd,
I think you can be unnecessarily hard on youeself mid tournament and get bogged down at the time about certain hands. Hands you feel you played bad seem to fester and i dont think its any good for your game at the time. Two instances come to mind. The first GJP festival in Drogheda near the business end and we were sitting beside eachother and Marq owned you a couple of times by betting you out of pots. The table broke for a break and you sat there crest fallen and you didnt care who seen it. Marq's chirpness was annoying but i thought to give him the chance to see you down was a mistake.

The second time was the recent S.E 1000 game when i met you in the food line and again you seemed crest falllen about a hand you explained against Danielle. On each occasion you ended the session with more chips than me and i was content enough with my lot!.

What im trying to say is dont be so hard on yourself at the time and try not to let others see your frustration.

Not everyone sees it but you are very good fun, in fact the dinner break at the IPC citiwest last january with you was some of the best laughs ive had at a live tournament.

Jayminator

Hi Lloyd,
My comments would be based around your table demenour which you have already commented on which is good.
However your ability to lose the plot and show this openly at the table has been to your detriment but I too have noticed that this trait seems to be under control. Losing the plot is deffo -EV in the physcological meaning.

* When in position I think you should widen your range a little to pre flop raisers paricularly against the aggro types. (Standard and obvious advice)

* Protect your blinds a little more. I find you allow them to be picked off a little too easy. Dont show AJ in your BB when the SB (me) has raised into you a little too often. Although I do too understand that could also have been a set up so none of that messing in the future ok....ref SE €1k event November 2007

* You know my thoughts on big big folds pre flop 4 handed. ENough said..

* I aint ever seen you play overly aggressive so maybe consider this. I think you are generally considered reasonably tightish around the circuit.

GL for 2008. I wont see much of anyone due to the new baby but i ll see you around at some stage.

Jay

Macspower

Hey Lloyd,

Again we havn't played in a while and I'm a tourney donk anyway so wouldn't know about strategy etc....

I think you are a very good player with a very good understanding of the game and are in the top 10% of players I've seen without a doubt...

I think you can be a bit hard on yourself sometimes too.... your game has improved greatly since I've seen you first.... and a lot even since the big win... (your due another)

I really think if you apply yourself to online poker you could do really well but sometimes hard to get motivated when you ahve a decent income...

When I had my business I had a steady cash flow and never worried about money really when playing... I used to win more yourneys and loose more in cash..... pull that rug out and see how much you'll loose then..... lol
So what I mean is it's sometimes hard to grind when you have an income already... but I know anythign you apply yourself to you'll do it.

Also you mention limit.. I've been playing a bit lately and it's very very soft.... might be an option?

anyway keep up the good work..... and BTW run better!

Mac

EDIT: ohh and BTW I miss the "old" Lloyd ... much more entertaining

jbravado

I havent played enough hands with you to offer anything hugely constructive.In cash games I think you play a little too tight.I also think sometimes you give a little too much weight on someones percieved image and ignore to a certain extent the course of the hand.

I think you should play a bit more live cash as with the mega deep stacked bigger games that are cropping up there is a little bit iof money there Im sure.

Obvioulsy you have put a lot of effort into improving your tempermant at the table-there has been times when I have seen you be a little out of line with your treatment of other players.

Im sure there will be many more big results for you and hope your success continues.

Requiem4adream

I dont think i've ever played with you live and only a few times online...actually i wasnt too sure what you looked like but i googled it and didnt jog any memories

Anyway, 1 thing you mentioned a few times is you dont seem to do that well in online mtt. I had a look at your opr Full Tracking to see if i could spot anything unusual to try help out with advice.

I think i found something that might help, it's very significant. In your 600 odd tournaments on OPR, 2 important average exit positions:

Early: 24% (1st 10% out)
EM: 20% (Early to mid 1st 10-30% out)

This is far far too high. Especially as the average buy-in is relatively small (thus standard of opposition easier). Exiting 1/4 of all tournies in this sample in the 1st 10% of games and almost half of all tournies with 70% of the field remaining is too loose. Go to the top 10 on the pokerstars opr rankings and check out their Early finish %'s. Of the top 10, the highest is 9% and 6 of them are at 4%.

There are 2 possible reasons for yours:

1. You dont apply yourself properly to the low-buyins mtt. Dont take them seriously or adopt a double-or-bust approach early on. As HJ kindly pointed out, i play a high volume of the same low buy-in games and i know smaller buy-in mtt are never inspiring. Big fields, normally little-to-no return; It's long, boring work and definitely requires a lot of patience.

or

2. You take far too many marginal risks early on. i.e. gamble too much. This strategy long term is obviously not successful for anyone, otherwise the top players would have a higher Early Finish % themselves. There is a remarkable consistency in the stats of all the top players in terms of their finishes - a winning model to aim for.


Anyone who can FT 1k live events is clearly more than able to beat these games convincingly. Ability is not your problem. It's the application of your ability to these games.


Advice:
I think you should work on applying yourself better in these games. Treat a $10 rebuy like it's a 1k event. If you apply yourself better you'll do extremely well in the long run. If you find you cant apply yourself properly then use the $ in the cash games or elsewhere because it's an easy way to haemorrhage some of your bankroll.

hotspur

I know nothing about your game but having only read yesterday in Cardplayer Europe about your 16k win recently I wanted to say well done.

ditpoker

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ultimately, I agree with all of the above and would like to stop being so smart yet so stupid at the same time. After next week in Drogheda I will mostly be playing online cash if I'm playing poker. That fits in with my stated poker goal at the start of the year - grind a lot online.

:eek:
you don't enjoy cash!
here's what i think is actually quite an issue for you... i don't think you know WHY you play poker. You seem trapped between playing for fun, and playing for money. you play for fun, but in big money games cos you think you're playing for the money.

I think if, as you say, you plan to play online cash, you'll make baby jesus cry. never in any of my poker chats with you have you ever shown an enjoyment of cash poker, more its something you have accepted you have to do in order to make consistent money from it. and i do think you could make consistent money from online cash, i just dont think you'd enjoy it. I think you enjoy tournament play more, the "battle" to WIN... at the end of a tournament you know if you have had a WIN or a LOSE... you play cash, its an on going grind to maintain a positive expected return, if you lose at cash, you play through it, hoping the wins outweigh the losses. if you play tournaments, you win, you win... you lose, you lose... game over...

i think you;d be playing cash for the wrong reasons. and will lead to you hating a game you clearly love.

as an example.
phantom_lord, clearly does love his cash moneys game. he posts on cash games religiously, more or less has "lol donkaments" tattooed on his forehead and whenever i've seen him in a tournament has a bemused "why aren't i playing cash" look on his face... he likes cash games, he doesnt like tourneys.
luckylloyd, always defends tourneys, has always played tourneys, enjoys tourneys, posts about MTT strategy, writes about it, talks about it... often maons about how dull live cash is, how much of a grind online cash is, is generally grumpy regarding all things cash-tastic.

ya follow?

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phantom_lord

ditpoker wrote: »

phantom_lord, clearly does love his cash moneys game. he posts on cash games religiously, more or less has "lol donkaments" tattooed on his forehead and whenever i've seen him in a tournament has a bemused "why aren't i playing cash" look on his face... he likes cash games, he doesnt like tourneys.

lol. yeah, but i need to remind myself why i hate them everyone couple of months.

lol phantomlordaments

*sigh*

DeVore

Lloyd, I've not really played with you a great deal so I wont comment on your card-play. You are a good guy, I've never seen the bad-tempered play people refer to, if I did I would laugh my ass off and never ever stop ripping on you about it

My comments would be that you seem to tie your card playing to your personal value. That is, if someone puts one over on you you take it very personally. If you play bad you beat yourself up about it. If you are sucked out on you take it to heart and if you are beaten by someone who has played badly it really gets to you!

In Connie's mad cash game we played in for example, we were all laughing our asses off at Connies mad play with 3,7 and it was that sort of game. You looked like you'd been crushed and that Connie had personally insulted you!

Now, I've been guilty of the same thing previously and the next step for you in your game (if you'll allow me to give you such advice) is to become more clinical and distant from the game.

So, my advice is that, distance yourself from your game.

DeV.

Captain Tom

stop folding QQ on J high flops you nit.

mdwexford

Lloyd is a very good tourney player, that is all.

And you should have headbutted that guy who slow-rolled you in the SE monthly that time, would have done your table image a lot of good imo.

bops

hi LL

we've only played together once/twice, all i can say is that you're not affraid to stick your stack in when you think it's +EV, that's all it takes imo to be a good tourney player, fair play to you and gl in '08

Doc Farrell

bops wrote: »

hi LL

we've only played together once/twice, all i can say is that you're not affraid to stick your stack in when you think it's +EV, that's all it takes imo to be a good tourney player, fair play to you and gl in '08

i guess thats it in a nutshell. Also, sometimes the best thing for ones game is to take some time away from it, give your brain a rest from over-thinking whats not a particularly difficult game.

next time you're playing against the usual smelly degenerates take a look around the table and ask if these players are beatable. if they are then what more is there to really know.

on a practical level, u are aware that you steam (as everyone does to a certain extent). With awareness comes the ability to change.

StraddleFor6

rounders123 wrote: »

Hi Lloyd,
I think you can be unnecessarily hard on youeself mid tournament and get bogged down at the time about certain hands. Hands you feel you played bad seem to fester and i dont think its any good for your game at the time. Two instances come to mind. The first GJP festival in Drogheda near the business end and we were sitting beside eachother and Marq owned you a couple of times by betting you out of pots. The table broke for a break and you sat there crest fallen and you didnt care who seen it. Marq's chirpness was annoying but i thought to give him the chance to see you down was a mistake.

The second time was the recent S.E 1000 game when i met you in the food line and again you seemed crest falllen about a hand you explained against Danielle. On each occasion you ended the session with more chips than me and i was content enough with my lot!.

What im trying to say is dont be so hard on yourself at the time and try not to let others see your frustration.

Not everyone sees it but you are very good fun, in fact the dinner break at the IPC citiwest last january with you was some of the best laughs ive had at a live tournament.

If I'm not mistaken, both the tournaments you mentioned, Lloyd went onto chop for big scores.
Maybe Lloyd could pay you 20% to talk to him at the breaks of the big tournaments he plays.

Sorry Lloyd, we've had very little table time together, so can't really comment. I know you've got game so keep it up.
Be sure to play whatever format you enjoy. If grinding online cash isn't for you, don't force it.

GL in 08 and the ME this week. You've a habit of going deep/winning GJP events. Keep it going.

StraddleFor6

StraddleFor6 wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, both the tournaments you mentioned, Lloyd went onto chop for big scores.
Maybe Lloyd could pay you 20% to talk to him at the breaks of the big tournaments he plays.

Sorry Lloyd, we've had very little table time together, so can't really comment. I know you've got game so keep it up.
Be sure to play whatever format you enjoy. If grinding online cash isn't for you, don't force it.

GL in 08 and the ME this week. You've a habit of going deep/winning GJP events. Keep it going.

Bing. Nice one boss.

Requiem4adream

Predict something big for me plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!! "if you build it they will come"

StraddleFor6

Requiem4adream wrote: »

Predict something big for me plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!! "if you build it they will come"

2nd in the warm up, 1st week of August, this year. Is that ok?

Requiem4adream

lol ty

Congrats again Lloyd

These threads with Lloyd and Daithio are turning into Reconstructing threads lol

connie147

I've 1 piece of advice LLoyd. Play more GJP events!!

Seriously,vwd on your showing in the ME.I'm definately not surprised.All it takes is a wee bit of confidence which I think we discussed before.You have the game but you cant take down every tourney you play.But knowing your good enough to take down each and every tourney you play is what its all about.Now stay in that zone!!

Connie.

Question for you: Do you think that the fact that you won the previous GJP festival ME gave you that bit of confidence to help you go so deep in this one? I genuinely think that if you could find a way to keep that confince in your own ability,rather than constantly questioning yourself,you'd find yourself with a lot more big results.

ditpoker

connie you forget that lloyd is actually rubbish at cards, and if people keep telling him he's good its ME who has to hear about it!

lloyd = fish!

Mr.Plough

I've only played with you once or twice and you're obviously a very competant player. One thing I will say though, which is based on your posts on the forum is that it doesn't help your game that you underestimate yourself so much. eg loads of "I suck at poker" and "Don't bluff the tourny donk" posts. With the results you've had everyone knows it is no fluke so I think you can afford to have alot more confidence in your game.

I know if I had the results you had I'd think I owned poker.


also wd on the result in drogheda

edit - just saw connie touched on it already. oh well

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Well done Llyod on the cash last night, i can now comment properly on your game you are a solid and very capable player.
I noticed your BB was a wee bit to easy to steal and i think you noticed it after a few steals when you repopped me, by the way i had 94 off in that spot and not 8's:p

Good to see the uber tilt has gone from your game you took the jj 35 beat against Mark very well, a year ago the table may have gotten a kick

Theresalwaysone

Maybe now you can get the idea that you are crap outta your head. Your not crap and the only thing that is costing you a run at cash poker is your lack of confidence.

Wp serious result last night.

The Al Lad

Play more when your sick, you seem to run sick !!!:p

semibluff

who needs cash poker when he's that consistent at tournies - donkaments ftw