The Quest for 59.59

Racing Flat

Goal: 59.59 or better in Ballycotton 10mile road race, Sunday March 9th.

Height 5'9" - 5'10"
Weight 10'10"
BMI 22
Body Fat 10% (skin-fold calipers)
Waking Heart Rate 42

PB 61mins

Today's training:
Rest

SUNGOD

the holy grail , best of luck racing flat .i read in another post somewhere on boards that a sub 60 min for a ten mile is one of "the big eight" in running which also included sub 3 hour marathon and so on. some acheivement if/when ya do it good luck again might see ya in ballycotton

Odysseus

A tough challenge indeed, though its "only" two mins off your pb. Looks like this log will make interesting reading, best of luck with the training.

eclectichoney

Good luck racing flat - will be reading with interest (and running vicariously through you as I'm laid up at the moment with a sore left calf and a sore right foot!)

Racing Flat

Today:

Rest - not lazy, just have race tomorrow, 2 days off before usually works best for me

weight 10'13" (damn you cake in work yesterday (a birthday) and Pizza Hut last night....
Waking HR 44

Odysseus - 'only 2 mins' is right. Huge 2 mins. Have 3 61's now, been there for 2 years, so really want to make the break through. Tmorrow will be good indicator. 5 mile race. Would probably want to break 28 to have a good cushion but hovering around 29mins last few 5milers...

BossArky

Good luck Racing Flat. I'll be reading hoping to pick up some running tips and training plans!

Racing Flat

Weight 10'11''
Waking HR 42

Today - 8.5miles including 5 mile road race.

Around the 29 mark for the race. Happy with performance, but this time will mean breaking the hour will be very very difficult. Prediction sites predict between 60 and 61 based on today. However have 6 weeks to go, so quietly confident that if training goes well I'll have an outside chance.

Roll on the hard training!!!

redved

Hi Racing Flat,
Enoying reading this training log.
I'm doing Ballycotton also, hoping for low 70's.
Would you mind posting a sample weeks training. It would be interesting to see what you have to do to get those kind of times

Racing Flat

Weight 10'9"

Training - recovery 6.3miles, 54mins

redved wrote: »

Would you mind posting a sample weeks training. It would be interesting to see what you have to do to get those kind of times

The times are not only a function of the training but also of training over a 4 year period, and also the starting point in terms of fitness....

Started from scratch 4 years ago, was out of shape, 14stone:eek: but still playing football 2 -3 times a week, so had some element of fitness. To lose weight I started jogging Jan 04, 2-3 times a week 20-30 mins and gradually got up to 40mins - once I got to this I started 4 times a week, gradually upping the time running and then got to 5 times a week 45mins - 1 hour each time. This probably took about 3 months but I was keen and motivated and had a lot of time on my hands, so stuck to it. Then in April 04 ran my first race a 10k in 42 mins. Loved that so did a few more, jogging away the whole time and culminated in the marathon in Oct 04. I followed Brendan O'Shea's marathon training programme religiously for the marathon training. This is published every year in the Irish runner, a 20 week programme, starting in early June, running 6 days a week about 50miles (I decided to challenge myself by doing the 2.30-3.15 programme, he gives a few varieties based on time), most of the emphasis is on mileage, with some speed work, mostly long intervals and tempo runs. I think this gave me a great base. So after this, I was hooked and wanted to get faster so joined a club. Since then I have been doing fairly typical club training, probably similar to what Jack Daniels advocates ie

Mon easy 45mins - 1hour (6-8miles)

Tues - intervals - 5-6x1k, or 6-8x800, or 8x600, or 10-12x400 - anything really that involves going very fast (around 3k pace or faster) with a minute or two resting in between each repetition. (8miles)

Wed - easy 45mins - 1hour (6-8miles)

Thurs - tempo run - 20mins easy, 20mins tempo (10k-10mile pace), 20mins easy (8miles)

Fri - Rest

Sat - long run 75mins - 2hours, depending on time of year, what races are coming up, usually easy, sometimes picking it up for second half (10-16miles)

Sun - easy hour (7-8miles)

At the beginning you will improve your race times no matter what you do, but then it may plateau so you need to tweak the speed work etc.

My progress
10k 42, 43, 39, 38, 36, 37, 36
5k 19, 18, 18, 17, 18, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17
10mile 66, 67, 64, 65, 61, 61, 61

So as I have plateaud somewhat, I have started on a slightly different programme to the above, concentrating more on tempo/lactate threshold runs as this is what's limiting my 10mile performance.

BossArky

What age are you? I'm presuming you are male too, yes?

redved

great thanks for taking the time to post that. good luck in Ballycotton.

Racing Flat

9.1miles, 67mins
Lactate threshold session - 2x20mins hard 5mins easy

Racing Flat

Easy run - 7.5miles, 62mins.

Racing Flat

8 miles incorporating interval session, 6 x 1k

Racing Flat

Friday 1st Feb - Rest

Sat 2nd Feb 12 - 12miles 83mins inc. lactate threshold session, 3 x 20mins hard 5 mins easy

Sun 3rd Feb - easy run: 8.2miles, 62mins


Week - 6 runs, 51miles

Racing Flat

Easy Run: 7.6miles, 60mins in a nice, hilly field

Going to be very, very tough. Just can't seem to hit the times in training. Still a few weeks left though...

Racing Flat

Today - Rest, enforced due to work.
May make decision as to whether this week or next week is an easy week easier...couldn't decide, but after today maybe better off having easy week, race Sunday then 3 hard weeks, as opposed to hard this week, easy next with race at end then 2 weeks hard...

Racing Flat

6 miles, 45mins incorporating 2 x 10mins hard, 5mins easy lactate threshold pace.
Race at weekend.

SUNGOD

well racing flat ,im enjoying your log just wondering what race have you this weekend and what distance etc,if its not 10 mile what time would you be hoping for to see if your on track for a sub 60 in ballycotton . either way good luck over the weekend, thanks

Racing Flat

Race will be 10k cross country, so time won't really be that relevant if it's hilly/muddy/windy, would probably be happy enough with 38mins or so, but good hard run just to get used to race conditions main priority. Need to be comfortable at 6min mile pace for an hour, so would want to be at 5.50 paceor better for 10k I think, so 36mins or so may be needed on road. Would think 28.30 or better for 5 mile on road would be needed. Don't feel at that level, but after this easy week will have 3 real hard weeks, so maybe at the end of that will have an outside chance if conditions are good on the day (unlike last year).

Racing Flat

5 miles easy, 40 mins, heart rate 134

Racing Flat

Rest

Racing Flat

3.6 miles 28mins with 3 x 30secs at race pace.
Race tomorrow.

Racing Flat

10miles including 10k cross country race. Don't know the exact time but finished under 40mins, considering it was a hilly course I was delighted with the run. Felt very strong, feel the lactate threshold run is standing to me...

Easy day or two now, can't wait to get into a hard burst of training then.

Week totals - 32miles, easy week with race.
Weight 10'11
Waking HR 43

Racing Flat

easy run, 7.5miles 60mins, HR 145

Racing Flat

lactate threshold session, 3 x 15mins hard (HR 170, 6.30 min mile pace) 5 mins easy
Total 10.5miles, 77mins

Racing Flat

Easy run. Hilly cross country route.
8.1 miles, 63mins, 7.50 min mile pace, Average HR 146.

Racing Flat

speed session 8 x 3min hard (~5min30/mile pace; 850m) 3min easy
Total 9miles
Not the fastest, but felt strong.

Abhainn

Mine are all time based now, 3k in 10mins, 10miles in 60mins and marathon in 3hours are 3 goals for 2008...

Hi Racing Flat you mentioned the above goals in a earlier SUN GOD post.
Are you thinking of creating a fitness log for the marathon under 3hrs?
Where do you plan to do it? What is your PB?

My goals
10KM - Sub 40 mins (No PB yet though 5K best is 19:12)
13.1 mlie -Sub 90min - (Current best 91:30)
26.2 -Sub 3:08 - (Current best 3:14)

To achieve the main marathon goal I need to
i) Loose a further 2kg at least to reach 78kg or so. I had a BMI of 26.1 for marathon above which doesn't sound great.
ii) Increase my average weekly milage from 27 to mid 30's /week.
iii) Do four runs a week every week. Was only doing 3 runs one week and 4 the next in the 12 weeks leading up to the DM last

Racing Flat

Abhainn wrote: »

Mine are all time based now, 3k in 10mins, 10miles in 60mins and marathon in 3hours are 3 goals for 2008...

Hi Racing Flat you mentioned the above goals in a earlier SUN GOD post.
Are you thinking of creating a fitness log for the marathon under 3hrs?
Where do you plan to do it? What is your PB?

My goals
10KM - Sub 40 mins (No PB yet though 5K best is 19:12)
13.1 mlie -Sub 90min - (Current best 91:30)
26.2 -Sub 3:08 - (Current best 3:14)

To achieve the main marathon goal I need to
i) Loose a further 2kg at least to reach 78kg or so. I had a BMI of 26.1 for marathon above which doesn't sound great.
ii) Increase my average weekly milage from 27 to mid 30's /week.
iii) Do four runs a week every week. Was only doing 3 runs one week and 4 the next in the 12 weeks leading up to the DM last

Depending on how this pans out, I may do a log for the marathon.

I did 2 marathons when I started running first, but realised I much preferred shorter distances, so have concentrated on these for last few years. My first marathon was a 3.15, second 3.06. Was very disappointed with 3.06 as I felt better than that, but kind of messed up the last 6 weeks of training. Therefore, I feel I have unfinished business at the marathon, i.e. I want to get under 3hours, but I really don't enjoy them or the training. It just so happens that this year I'm having a long break after Ballycotton - maybe a month or so, having taken no more than a week off twice a year for the last 2.5 years, I think it will be good for the body to have complete rest. So will try to bow out in style at Ballycotton, then rest for a month. Because of this it will probably take me to the end of May to get back in shape, which means I'll be a little late to start speed work for a track season, so it is probably a good year to do the marathon, hopefully break 3 so I can forget about them again and get back to the shorter distances.

As I want to break 3, I would like to do a marathon that is conducive to fast times, so I originally planned for Amsterdam in October, but am now thinking that Berlin in September may be better - training won't drag on as long and I'll have time to recover and still get to enjoy a fair chunk of the cross country season.

Regarding your own goals, they seem quite realistic. Based on your marathon time I would expect you to run a better 5k and half marathon in due course. Losing weight will generally help to improve your times, but the running training will take care of this, I would concentrate on the running training and the weight will look after itself. What height are you? 80kg seems quiet heavy as runners go, but it all depends on your height, body distribution etc. to do 3.14 at that weight is no mean feat. LOADS of potential I imagine...

I know mileage isn't everything and everyone's different but 27miles a week does seem a little low for a 3.14 marathon, so great potential. By gradually upping to 4 days every week/mid 30's you will naturally get an increase in endurance and performance. Quality is also important - what kind of runs are you doing? For the marathon milage/time on feet is important but to achieve your 10k goal an element of speed work would probably help. I think a good thing to do is set your marathon goal at the end of a 3-4month training block, then put in a few interim races (e.g. half marathon 5 weeks before that, 10miles 3-4weeks before the half and 5mile/10k 3-4 weeks before that) and hopefully you'll get PBs in all, but also it breaks the 4 month period in 4 more or less 1 month block, makes it more interesting, helps to stay focussed and cuts down on missing training days. The adidas series is set up perfectly for that.

Best of luck.

SUNGOD

Abhainn wrote: »

Mine are all time based now, 3k in 10mins, 10miles in 60mins and marathon in 3hours are 3 goals for 2008...

hi abhainn i read somewhere that the 3 goals above are part of the BIG 8 in running which also includes 1 mile in 5 min,5k in 20 min, 5mile in 30 min,10k in 40 min and 1/2 marathon in 90 min , some easier then others , racing flat has probably picked the more difficult of the 8 .to complete either of the three would be a great acheivement .

thanks racing flat

good luck

Racing Flat

Abhainn wrote: »

i read somewhere that the 3 goals above are part of the BIG 8 in running which also includes 1 mile in 5 min,5k in 20 min, 5mile in 30 min,10k in 40 min and 1/2 marathon in 90 min , some easier then others , racing flat has probably picked the more difficult of the 8. to complete either of the three would be a great acheivement .

All depends on the person, some, like me, are more suited to shorter distances, others are suited to longer. I know a girl who hovers around 65mins for 10mile but can run 2.50 for marathon. Also, lots of fellows I can hammer over 5k, I'm nowhere near their marathon times. The 10mins for 3k should be a doddle for me but just haven't entered a 3k at the right time I think. The 10miles in 60mins will be a struggle. My best effort was on a hilly course when I went through 6 miles in 36.00, but the wheels came off in the last few uphill miles and ended with 61mins. As for the 3hours for tha marathon, I'm great for 2hours 15mins but find it difficult after this, so again, it won't be easy for me. Will enjoy trying though...

Abhainn

Thanks Racing Flat and SUNGOD for your replies.
I just came across these fitness logs recently and find them very interesting.

SUNGOD I was searching for details of the BIG 8 in running but no success untill now. Cheers at least according to your info I acheived one!

Racing Flat to answer some of your queries:

My height is only 5ft 9in and I am broad so my statute doesn't really constitute a marathon runner, more of a triathlete. I plan to commence tri's this summer as I am a fair swimmer anyway.
I'm hoping my weekly milage increase with shift the rest of the fat that's hugging my 6 pack!

I think I am more suited to the longer runs and I seem to be able to sustain the same pace over a longer distance. My stamina seems good.

My goal is the Berlin marathon sub 3:08. Right now I am training for the Conn Marathon in April. Presently doing 4 runs a week, the three midweek are tempo of 7 miles at MP or faster with long one at weekends. I have two long runs completed with 4 to do, the longest will be over 21miles.

I am trying to throw in a speed session every second week on the track of 6x400 at 1:25 or better with 2:30 lay in between.
But I don't like speed sessions!
For the DM I did a number of half's and for those I did a speed session 1 per week. It been spring there're aren't many 10km or half marathon races so I plan to run a quick 13.1 or 12 miler on the weekends between the really long runs.
Tomorrow I have a 14 mile mountain run in Sligo planned at 7:30/mile or better.


Best of luck in Ballycotton!

Racing Flat

Abhainn wrote: »

I think I am more suited to the longer runs and I seem to be able to sustain the same pace over a longer distance. My stamina seems good.

My goal is the Berlin marathon sub 3:08. Right now I am training for the Conn Marathon in April. Presently doing 4 runs a week, the three midweek are tempo of 7 miles at MP or faster with long one at weekends. I have two long runs completed with 4 to do, the longest will be over 21miles.

I am trying to throw in a speed session every second week on the track of 6x400 at 1:25 or better with 2:30 lay in between.
But I don't like speed sessions!
For the DM I did a number of half's and for those I did a speed session 1 per week. It been spring there're aren't many 10km or half marathon races so I plan to run a quick 13.1 or 12 miler on the weekends between the really long runs.
Tomorrow I have a 14 mile mountain run in Sligo planned at 7:30/mile or better.

Your times suggest to me that you may be more suited to the longer runs, but that may be just a function of the training you were doing.

You are hoping to run a marathon in 3.08 - is that about 7.10min mile pace? Your speed session is 6 x 400 at 5.40min mile pace. Not an expert, but I would not do this as a marathon training speed session. I would do longer intervals - 800m, 1k, or 1mile, or running hard for 3-6mins. 8 x 800, 5-6 x 1k or 4 x 1mile aren't bad. You would obviously do these slower than your 400s session, but you'd still be significantly faster than your target race pace. These would work speed (in relation to your race pace) but also speed endurance (all around 4miles of speed-work), while your 6x400s (1.5miles of speed-work) is IMO working speed that you won't really need for the marathon, but won't be pushing your speed endurance as much. Tingle might be the man to advise you on this.

You say you don't like speed session but this is just one type of speed work. You can also do tempo/lactate threshold runs, which consist of upping the pace to around 10mile/half marathon pace for 20mins or so. A nice mix of the different types of speed sessions might be more interesting for you.

Abhainn

Thanks Racing Flat. Regarding the speed sessions I see where you are coming from.
Actually my speed sessions in 2007 combined all of the distances you say. I'll up the distances from the 400m ones from next week.

Apologies for highjacking your log

Racing Flat

Rest.

Contemplated going for run as will miss some days next week, but tired, so need the rest. Hopefully able to bang one out in the morning then...

Racing Flat

12.5miles, 90mins
3 x 20mins hard, 5 mins easy

Racing Flat

long, easy run.

12.1miles, 88 mins, HR149, 7.18pace.

Week: 60miles.

3 weeks to go, 2 hard, 1easy. Bring it on!

Racing Flat

Lactate threshold session - 2 x 20mins, supposed to be around 170 HR but couldn't get above 160 today, tired after weekend. 6.30pace for both on hilly course so happy enough.

Total - 9.1miles, 66mins

Racing Flat

Speed session.

8 x 3mins hard, 3mins easy.

9.3miles

Racing Flat

easy run - 8.1miles 58mins. 7.10pace HR 148

Racing Flat

lactate threshold session, 3 x 20mins.
11.7 miles, 87mins

Tired tonight, legs heavy, 6th day in a row often feels like this. Couldn't hit heart rate target, but not too fussed, good effort put in. Will try and get run in tomorrow and then rest till Monday.

Patto

What do you mean you can't hit the HR? Was that always a problem or is it something that becomes an issue as you get fitter?

I find when I'm tired my Hr goes too high and I can't keep it down.

If you don't mind me asking what is you max HR? What age are you?

Best of luck in Ballycotton btw. I'll be there myself, I won't be finishing till 10 or 15 minutes after you though.

Racing Flat

fri 22nd easy run - 5 mile
sat 23 rest
today rest

Max HR 193, done in physiological fitness testing lab. I mean I might be supposed to run at 175 for a particular session, but I get it to 165-170 and I can't reeally go harder. Would only happen when tired e.g. the 6th day of a 6 day block when legs are really tired, so that to go faster to try and hit the target HR it would hurt the legs too much so I hold back a little. Maybe I'm just 'soft' but I think listening to the body on those days may be a good idea. To get to the target I'd have to push too hard and be wrecked after it, maybe get run down. Having had 2 days off, I imagine I'll easily hit the HR's next few days. Also on cerrtain surfaces - muddy/hilly can be hard to get the speed up to get the heart rate high enough..

One really hard week left, than easy week, then race. Will try and get 2-3 lactate threshold sessions in and a speed session. Been doing the LT sessions on cross country routes but will try one in the week on road to get an idea of how I'm going, as it's always slower on the country.

Patto, re your heart rate, if it goes too high and it won't go down it's probably because you are training too hard on that particular night. Depending on the purpose of the run, you should be hitting a certain HR. I've specific zones, 150-160 for easy runs, 175-180 for LT runs and >185 for speed sessions. These are based on the fitness test I had and not on age. The would not equate to 220-age, but are calculated from graphs of my heart rate/blood lacate levels/VO2max etc. As a rough rule of thumb they say you should be at 70-80% max heart rate for easy runs, 90% for LT runs and >98% for speed sessions (although it might take 400m or so to raise it to this high). Max heart rate may be calculated by running as hard as you can for 5 mins, maybe do a 1 mile race. Everyone's different though - this is a new programme for me with an emphasis on LT runs, so will be interesting to see how I go in Ballycotton.

Racing Flat

week total - 43 miles

Patto

That is very interesting. What you say makes sense though, I always think it is a good idea to listen to the body.

I'm only a part time runner, i really only train like a runner for the 10 weeks running upto the B10 each year, its back to the gym after that. I'm 6'4" and 210Lb so I'm not quite built like a runner. I was aiming to run the race at around 206Lb and 6% body fat. Training has been a bit hit a miss this year due to a hip injury, I have only been able to do lactate runs in the last 2 or 3 weeks. My max HR is 198 which is quite high considering that I am 32, my easy runs would be 145-160, Lactate would be as you said 175-180, the speed runs I do at 3k or 5k pace would be more like 180-183 average over a 1k distance but my hr would be up around 185 or higher by the end.

Keeping my HR down on easy runs is usually my problem. I have trained with people of similar fitness, that being we would run a similiar race time but on a so called easy run my HR would be 164-170 and theirs would be way down in the 140s. Its mad

Will you do any more long runs between now and Sunday week?

Racing Flat

Patto wrote: »

Keeping my HR down on easy runs is usually my problem. I have trained with people of similar fitness, that being we would run a similiar race time but on a so called easy run my HR would be 164-170 and theirs would be way down in the 140s. Its mad

Will you do any more long runs between now and Sunday week?

If your HR on an easy run is 164-170 and it should be 145-160 you are running too hard on that night. Full stop. Go slower so your heart rate is in the desired zones. Let the competetive streak go on the easy run nights, tell the lads you have to go slower, maybe they will also, if not, let them go. Otherwise you are doing what they refer to as junk miles, too fast for easy, ie aerobic cionditioning and recovery benefits but too slow for fitness benefits such as increased lactate threshold HR/pace. so you are tiring the body and running it down without getting any benefit. I think this is a very common mistake. And I have heard Sonia O'Sullivan among other top runners saying this is one thing they would do differently if they could go again - they would go easy on the easy days, rather than always going hard. This stems from competetiveness, insecurity and enjoying hard training I suppose. And will result in poor performance, as you'll just feel washed out come race day.

Secondly, you cannot compare HR based on others with similar race times. I know a 43 year old with max HR of 160. So maybe the people you run with have lower max HR's and as such are at a similar percentage to you during these runs but a lower actual HR? Or else they are also going too hard, or they are 'fitter' than you but you run the same race times because you are a better 'racer'??? Again, it's a common mistake with HR training, so don't compare with others. Just stay in your zones, might mean running on your own unfortunately for some sessions, but if that's the price to beat them;) so be it. Also, it's great to beat fellows in a race who are going harder than you in training - really frustrating for them, but their own fault if they overdid it. As they say, 'don't leave your race on the track'.

6% BF - bloody hell that's low - at your weight? Must be serious body-builder?

Finally, long runs, I'm not really doing any long runs as such with this plan. I do 2 long slow distance runs 60-90mins at my easy heart rate, depending how I feel, so it's usually 1 60min and 1 90min, I'll do that Sat or Sunday. I'll get a speed session in, something like 8 x 800's hard tomorrow night. and I'll do 2 lactate threshold sessions, 3 x 20mins at LT HR, one on Thurs and one on Sat/Sun. These are 12-13 mile runs anyway, so I'm doing 'long runs' appriopriate to a 10mile race, but nothing seriously long. Not sure what I'll do tonight, having had 2 days off I'd be keen enough to do a LT session, but don't want to be too tired for the speed session tomorrow..so will go out and see how the body feels (tough weekend travelling) maybe do a shorter LT session or else just go easy. Then after Sunday I'll have a very easy week. 2-3 runs of 30-40mins and one short LT session (2 x 10mins), no speed session and hopefully do well at BC.

Good luck yourself.

Patto

Thanks for that, its good advise. I have often thought about an bemoaned these "junk" miles but I have to say it is a pride thing, I hate to be the one slowing people down and all that.

6% at 206 was the traget. I'm 210 and more like 7-8%. That last few pounds is a killer. I just look tall and fairly lean, I'm no bodybuilder that is for sure. At my height you need to be 17 stone at least to look bulky and that ain't somewhere I plan to go.

Racing Flat

easy run
8.2 miles 61mins. 7.30min/mile, HR 150bpm

Racing Flat

speed session - intervals
10 x 800 (2.33-2.53, average 2.45; recovery ~2.30) and 1 x 400 (69s)
Total - 10.5miles

Racing Flat

easy run - 8.1miles, 59mins, HR 152