Gardai V PSNI

CLADA

It saddens me greatly to see policemen squabble and engage in such petty inter force rivalry:rolleyes:

Karlito, I know you're winding up for a big attack but don't do it, don't drag yourself down to their level. Take comfort in the fact that you're not in London and you don't have to walk around on duty with a blue tit on your head all day:D

Max001 you really are going to have to get over your lack of confidence and start thinking positive.;)

On a more serious note its grossly unfair of Metman to state that the Gardai are light years behind the PSNI and Met and throw out the Dublin riots as an example. There is not a police force in the world that can engage in mudslinging.

Garda V PSNI was a provocative title for a thread and was destined to descend into a bit of a bitching session.

eroo

Garda V PSNI was a provocative title for a thread and was destined to descend into a bit of a bitching session.

Hit the nail on the head there mate

Max001

'Ultimately both PSNI/Garda have their pros and cons (both forces naturally being inferior to the Met )' MetMan

lol, you wish ! Max


'On the one hand the PSNI is better resourced and equipped but conduct a role more akin to paramilitary.' Metman

Wrong dude. Throughout the 'troubles' the over whelming number of RUC 'regular' officers conducted normal policing for 90% plus of their time. Certainly specialised units, of course conducted specialised duties, some anti-terrorist and in hard line republican areas 'normal policing' was difficult.
Since terrorist decommissioning, to say the PSNI is paramilitary in role or culture is simply wrong. Max

I make these points only so that anyone making career decisions, doesn't do so, based on out of date or faulty info.

FYI - I was a Royal Hong Kong Police Inspector, but have close friends in RUC/PSNI as well as The Met and throughout the 80's & 90's visited police stations in NI and accompanied officers on duty. Since moved on to a proper job :rolleyes:

the locust

I grew up in NI. Everytime there was a RUC/PSNI checkpoint, there was mp5 smg's & G3 rifles out. Growing up i saw submachine guns regularly on RUC/PSNI patrols. Patrol Landrovers were armour plated. I have friends and relatives in the force who all have trained with the military as part of thier job training.
You cant call that style - normal - non paramilitary policing. Northern Ireland is unique in that sense. Fair enough they've cooled off as peace is being processed but the ability to operate as paramilitary police force to deal with terrorism - that ability is still there if needed. They certainly did conduct normal policing duties, but their sop's were very much 'para' military.

metman

CLADA wrote: »

On a more serious note its grossly unfair of Metman to state that the Gardai are light years behind the PSNI and Met and throw out the Dublin riots as an example. There is not a police force in the world that can engage in mudslinging.

You seem to have missed my point. I said the Guards are light years behind the PSNI and Met as regards public order capability. I stand by that point. The Garda doesn't have a full-time Level One PO unit akin to TSG. The Dublin riots were a minor disorder by PSNI standards. Similarly such disorder would never have gotten off the ground in London, let alone have blown up to the major public order incident it became.....blue tits notwithstanding

I'm not having a go at the lads working in the Garda. I've a few mates working as Detectives in Santry and Store Street. But the SMT (senior management team) there needs to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the past and into the 21st century.

TheNog

metman wrote: »

You seem to have missed my point. I said the Guards are light years behind the PSNI and Met as regards public order capability. I stand by that point.

We maybe light years behind but we rarely have the level of public order incidents that N. Ire or England have had in the past. Maybe that is why we don't need the level of training that ye have.

metman wrote: »

The Garda doesn't have a full-time Level One PO unit akin to TSG. The Dublin riots were a minor disorder by PSNI standards. Similarly such disorder would never have gotten off the ground in London, let alone have blown up to the major public order incident it became

Again this is down to experience. The PSNI and English POs have had disasters in the past and have used it to gain experience.

metman wrote: »

But the SMT (senior management team) there needs to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the past and into the 21st century.

That is true for the Love Ulster riot. It should not have taken place when O'Connell st was a building site but again chalk it down to experience.

Eru

CLADA wrote: »

It saddens me greatly to see policemen squabble and engage in such petty inter force rivalry:rolleyes:

Karlito, I know you're winding up for a big attack but don't do it, don't drag yourself down to their level. Take comfort in the fact that you're not in London and you don't have to walk around on duty with a blue tit on your head all day:D

Max001 you really are going to have to get over your lack of confidence and start thinking positive.;)

On a more serious note its grossly unfair of Metman to state that the Gardai are light years behind the PSNI and Met and throw out the Dublin riots as an example. There is not a police force in the world that can engage in mudslinging.

Garda V PSNI was a provocative title for a thread and was destined to descend into a bit of a bitching session.

Your absolutely right my friend, I shall refrain from spitting bile in their directions.

Of course all is true, the Gardai dont know shiot about policing. The RUC did NOT become involved in collusion. The officers that have spoken about it are lying, the investigations into it havent found anything and of course they offered normal policing. Having the army behind you and having armoured barracks as stations is perfectly normal.

Gardai can apply for various areas once they are attested if no time frame is stated. If you know a detective in Store Street ask him what service is required for CPU?? Nothing at all.

As for the rest, well all I can offer in addition to the above as evidence is the Gardai that have left and joined foreign forces of which you wont be able to confirm so whats the point?

As for forensics, riot training, etc. Current training does not involve riot training as standard but until 5 years ago it was basic so all Gardai had PO training. Now its an advanced course.

Try reading 'Into the dark', 'Irish murders', 'Forensic investigations' and 'Hard cases' to name the ones I actually own. Until then dont simple tell me Im lying without being able to prove it.


Of course the Gardai have failings in training, equipment, etc. I can accept that but it appears the MET and PSNI want to simple hide their heads in the sand and deny their own failings.

cushtac

The Love Ulster riot occured because whoever made the decisions did not think the parade would cause as much trouble as it did & as a result did not have enough riot police on standby, it's not a failing in the riot training of the Gardai themselves.

remmurts

I'll say it again...lots of the "mine is bigger than yours" stuff" being spouted...I suspect from relatively junior members of the force...but that's OK...it's a passing phase !!!

The Gardai are, at the same time, the best and the worst police force in the world. Lots of fantastic policemen, outstanding investigators, phenomanal local knowledge, etc. On the other hand, backwards looking, inept supervision, lack of wider planning, obsolete technology, and a complete unwillinglness to embrace that technology that is adopted...I think I've written about it in another thread.

On the issues just mentioned...Garda riot training is not up to snuff. It would be nowhere near the level of the the PSNI or Met. Not the fault of the individual Garda, but more a result of the head in the sand style of management that is so prevalent in the Gardai. Things like violent riots just don't happen in Ireland, eh?

As for collusion in the RUC...well don't kid yourself that it never happened in the Gardai either. It was just hushed up more effectively south of the border.

Making specialist units?...all depends on your contacts and your clout. Getting on the CPU in Store St is no big deal...it's just plain clothes work...not detective work...although the lazier DDU types will be only delighted to let you do their jobs for them. CPU is a limited unit...it used to only operate out of the C and the B Districts...really just a local solution to a local problem...not a DMR policy.