Gardai V PSNI

Bren1609

I'm thinking of applying to one or the other. However, I get the imression that the PSNI is alot more professional. How do each of the two organisation compare on the following points:

1: Salary
2: Training
3: Career prospects
4: Professionalism
5: Numbers i.e. How many in hardai v how many in PSNI

MartinC2006

Why not apply for both ?

I'm currently awaiting to start with the PSNI. From my very limited perspective I beleive.

1. The PSNI are better paid.
2. The PSNI training is far more comprehensive better but the Gardai training centre is superior
3. I'm not sure, I would think both are excellent.
4. I have no idea, presumably both are to a high standard.
5. No idea, Gardai will have more due to the amount policed and geographical size.

Good luck.

Martin.

metman

Bren,

1. As metioned the PSNI have a more realistic salary ad you're not subjected to an outdated "training allowance" in lieu of salary whilst training.

2. PSNI training, like that of other British Forces is more condensed and relevant than that of the Garda Siochana. As part of your training as a Garda you're expected to spend time studying foreign languages, doing community placements and writing a thesis as part of a degree in policing. Similarly you'll be sent out to stations on attachment with zero police powers, effectively a civvie in uniform with nice blue epaulettes to show everyone you've less powers than the Garda Reserve. In the PSNI your training is designed to teach you what you need to know to do the job, ie you'll do everything the Garda does, minus the nonsense, plus a tactical firearms course and police driving course. On leaving training school you'll be a fully attested officer.

3. With the PSNI, once you're out of your two year probation you can apply for promotion or for CID or another specialist role. In the Garda you won't be in a position to take a Sergeants exam before 5 or 6 years in and can't apply for anything with less than 3 years service.

4. Bit subjective this, as the service provided differs from copper to copper. However if you look at the general setup, all PSNI officers are tactical firearms trained while their public order units are some of the best in the world. The Garda struggles to provide armed backup on the streets and is seriously lacking in public order officers (point in case the Dublin riot).

5. I think the Guards have about 14,000 members for a 4 million populace, while the PSNI have around 10,000 for a populace of 1.5 million.

Bren1609 wrote: »

I'm thinking of applying to one or the other. However, I get the imression that the PSNI is alot more professional. How do each of the two organisation compare on the following points:

1: Salary
2: Training
3: Career prospects
4: Professionalism
5: Numbers i.e. How many in hardai v how many in PSNI

Witcher

the gardai have social placements because its more focused on community

policing.


an probationary gardai do not have less power than the garda reserve.



:cool::cool::cool:

TheNog

blay1 wrote: »

the gardai have social placements because its more focused on community

policing.


an probationary gardai do not have less power than the garda reserve.



:cool::cool::cool:

I believe Metman was referring to student gardai who have no garda powers at all rather than probationers.

Some of the placements are community orientated, the rest is to give the student a chance to experience the traffic units, ddu, crime etc

Witcher

TheNog wrote: »

I believe Metman was referring to student gardai who have no garda powers at all rather than probationers.
Some of the placements are community orientated, the rest is to give the student a chance to experience the traffic units, ddu, crime etc

my bad



yeah i know about that i was just hitting on the community stuff



:cool::cool::cool:

metman

Don't get me wrong, I think the Garda Siochana offers a good career and is a worthwhile organisation to join. In any respect policing is policing, no matter where you work ie same sh1t different badge I do however take the view that the PSNI has the edge on the Guards in respect of the items listed above, but its horses for courses.

mic

As part of your training as a Garda you're expected to spend time studying foreign languages

To my knowledge PSNI students officers must learn basic phrases in minority languages such as Polish, Portuguese, Chinese and Lithuanian.

eroo

Also,the PSNI are still resented by a part of the populus and at times get absolutely no respect from certain communities..but GS has its own enemies as well!

okshea

Hey people,imo this gardai-vp.s.n.i is fairly pointless.Both services come from different situations and thus have evolved differently.The p.s.n.i (previously ruc obviously!) have come from thirty yrs of sectarian conflict so have armed officers with good firearms training re-neccesity,and as a previous poster stated they have world class public order units,but again this is borne out of the situation the police in the north faced for many yrs.Whereas as the majority of guards(excluding specialist units) dealt with with largely civilian type policing (i realise there was a lot of robberies by terrorist orgs in the south in70/80s which all gardai had the possibility of facing,but all in all it was much safer in the south than n.ireland))so they evolved to face these situations.So youve got two good police forces with historically different challenges.

eroo

Could not have said it better okshea.I was just logging on to say that they are two very different forces and can't be compared,just like you cannot compare US military and Irish military..

Remmy

Anyone know do the P.S.N.I have a specialist firearms unit like the SO19 or E.R.U?Am I correct in saying that all officers on foot patrol carry a sidearm?

okshea

Cheers eroo,great minds think alike!!!!!:)

metman

PSNI have, akin to the Met, a TSG. In the Met this stands for Territorial Support Group, whereas in NI it stands for Tactical Support Group. Both units perform a similar role as regards public order control, borough support and tactical work but PSNI TSG are trained in long arms and do their tastier stuff. Met TSG do some firearms stuff but the tastier stuff is done by SFOs from the Firearms Command.

Remmy

cheers metman.
Is it true their phasing out the longarm's as it begins to calm down up there or will their always be provision for the mp5 or 33?normal officers carry sidearms only for patrols and the longs are left for ARV's right?

Remmy

CLADA

Remmy wrote: »

Anyone know do the P.S.N.I have a specialist firearms unit like the SO19 or E.R.U?Am I correct in saying that all officers on foot patrol carry a sidearm?

The equivalent unit in the north is HMSU, pretty much perform the same role as CO19 and ERU.

metman

CLADA wrote: »

The equivalent unit in the north is HMSU, pretty much perform the same role as CO19 and ERU.

Mobile Support Unit (MSUs) were renamed Tactical Support Group.

CLADA

metman wrote: »

Mobile Support Unit (MSUs) were renamed Tactical Support Group.

You better give them a call and tell them because up to last week they were still using "Headquarters Mobile Support Unit":D

metman

Innnnnteresting.....I'm sure PSNI himself will clear it up at some point.

CLADA

metman wrote: »

Innnnnteresting.....I'm sure PSNI himself will clear it up at some point.

You can trust me on that one, policemen don't lie:p

metman

No, we don't lie and though I take your point re HMSU, divisional MSUs were renamed TSG (look here and scroll down to TSG).

Perhaps the HQ aspect retained the MSU handle....perhaps not.....I'm not in the PSNI so I can't say for sure. I can say that TSG perform the role outlined above, as I have personal experience of the TSG and the role.

Max001

While the RUC had to expand very quickly in the '70's to cope with the deteriorating public order situation and thus by necessity, was less choosy in who it recruited, in the 80's it over hauled its initial and on-going training and became very selective in recruiting, having well in excess of twenty applicants for each vacancy. Its training has continued to evolve and as others have said, is very role focused and sets probationers up reasonably well for their first station role. With the ongoing threat from republican dissadents I'd guess that the firearms training will be a feature of initial training for many years. This lasts a month (I believe) as does driver training. Initial training overall, takes roughly six months.
To correct a previous comment. The RUC had neighbourhood officers in every station since the seventies, if not before.
As well as professional training, early career officers would be authorised to deal with incidents / investigations only dealt with by more senior officers in the rest of the UK, such as fatal accidents and sudden deaths. Incidently the training staff are hand picked from the whole force and would usually be on fast track promotion due to their high calibre.
Also, due to the fact that most PSNI stations always did and certainly now, undertake fairly normal policing, probationary officers deal with a high workload of investigations, quickly developing expertise in excess of most other police forces. I would estimate that the probationary period with the PSNI is probably worth several years experience in most other police forces.
RUC/PSNI officers are held in extremely high regard by most other police forces and many have undertaken UN policing roles in Kosovo/ Iraq etc adding to their expertise.
I have no personal experience of the Garda apart from occasional contact as a member of the public, however I honestly believe there's simply no comparison. MetMan may correct me, but I believe also, that probably the only police force the Metropolitan Police would respect as equals, would be the PSNI/RUC and the Met were never known for their humility !

Shield

metman wrote: »

Mobile Support Unit (MSUs) were renamed Tactical Support Group.

Everyone's right. There's a TSG AND HMSU. TSG specialise in public order stuff and so on, while the MSU boys are SWAT-type of people.

CLADA

Max001 wrote: »

the Met were never known for their humility !

There wasn't too much humility in that post!!:D

I always reckoned you could tell a man from the PSNI, but you couldn't tell him much:p

Eru

metman wrote: »

Bren,

1. As metioned the PSNI have a more realistic salary ad you're not subjected to an outdated "training allowance" in lieu of salary whilst training.

2. PSNI training, like that of other British Forces is more condensed and relevant than that of the Garda Siochana. As part of your training as a Garda you're expected to spend time studying foreign languages, doing community placements and writing a thesis as part of a degree in policing. Similarly you'll be sent out to stations on attachment with zero police powers, effectively a civvie in uniform with nice blue epaulettes to show everyone you've less powers than the Garda Reserve. In the PSNI your training is designed to teach you what you need to know to do the job, ie you'll do everything the Garda does, minus the nonsense, plus a tactical firearms course and police driving course. On leaving training school you'll be a fully attested officer.

3. With the PSNI, once you're out of your two year probation you can apply for promotion or for CID or another specialist role. In the Garda you won't be in a position to take a Sergeants exam before 5 or 6 years in and can't apply for anything with less than 3 years service.

4. Bit subjective this, as the service provided differs from copper to copper. However if you look at the general setup, all PSNI officers are tactical firearms trained while their public order units are some of the best in the world. The Garda struggles to provide armed backup on the streets and is seriously lacking in public order officers (point in case the Dublin riot).

5. I think the Guards have about 14,000 members for a 4 million populace, while the PSNI have around 10,000 for a populace of 1.5 million.

Hold on a sec, where is this coming from? Opinion only I assume!

1. If your joining based on salary your going to the wrong job. No police officer is there for the money. I do understand that thye PSNI wage goes further than the Garda based on economic factors.

2. PSNI do something similar to 12 weeks in total compared to well over a year with the Gardai. How you can state that getting out in the community as a trainee and watching fulltime officers in real situations is a waste of time I dont know. In the Garda case when you get your badge your well trained and seen a lot. Your not as fresh as other new plods. In the UK your attached to a senior officer for 6 months/1 year whereas Gardai arent. Why? Not needed as its been done in the student stage. Now there is stuff the Gardai can get rid off in my opinion but saying a longer training system is inferior because of that is a little unfair. BTW police from all over come here to train with the Gardai not the other way around and we actually invented the current Public order and VIP protection system thats commonly used. (FBI use a Garda video to show how it works). The PSNI are world leaders on the terrorist side of things and dealing with a hostile environment.

having said that theres is no reason why driving and basic weapon use couldnt be in the Garda basic training for the Degree in policing and vice versa, theres more to policing than simple knowing the law and having a weapon.

3. Dony know where your getting this information. 2 years for some courses and specialist areas but not all. Drugs, detective does not require this officially. Sergeant after 2 years. Your unlikely to get it that soon but in my opinion you shouldnt be getting promoted based on such limited experience.

4. Horses for courses obviously. Its simple a different ball game country to country. Gardai are far more community orientated, getting out and about and involved in areas. PSNI dont share the same support for obvious reasons and they have different problems on a daily basis buty I will support the Garda record on solving crime especially considering our considerable lack of resources.

Overall as I said before, every force has strenghts and weaknesses. TV makes the Met or NYPD to be fantastic but guaranteed under the public image they have problems just like the Gardai / PSNI.

I would also like to state that a hell of a lot of countries are coming to the UK / Irish police and trying to poach us. US, Australia and Spain offer an advanced training / promotion system for police from the Gardai, PSNI and various UK constabularies.

Eru

Max001 wrote: »

While the RUC had to expand very quickly in the '70's to cope with the deteriorating public order situation and thus by necessity, was less choosy in who it recruited, in the 80's it over hauled its initial and on-going training and became very selective in recruiting, having well in excess of twenty applicants for each vacancy. Its training has continued to evolve and as others have said, is very role focused and sets probationers up reasonably well for their first station role. With the ongoing threat from republican dissadents I'd guess that the firearms training will be a feature of initial training for many years. This lasts a month (I believe) as does driver training. Initial training overall, takes roughly six months.
To correct a previous comment. The RUC had neighbourhood officers in every station since the seventies, if not before.
As well as professional training, early career officers would be authorised to deal with incidents / investigations only dealt with by more senior officers in the rest of the UK, such as fatal accidents and sudden deaths. Incidently the training staff are hand picked from the whole force and would usually be on fast track promotion due to their high calibre.
Also, due to the fact that most PSNI stations always did and certainly now, undertake fairly normal policing, probationary officers deal with a high workload of investigations, quickly developing expertise in excess of most other police forces. I would estimate that the probationary period with the PSNI is probably worth several years experience in most other police forces.
RUC/PSNI officers are held in extremely high regard by most other police forces and many have undertaken UN policing roles in Kosovo/ Iraq etc adding to their expertise.
I have no personal experience of the Garda apart from occasional contact as a member of the public, however I honestly believe there's simply no comparison. MetMan may correct me, but I believe also, that probably the only police force the Metropolitan Police would respect as equals, would be the PSNI/RUC and the Met were never known for their humility !

With all respect but the RUC went abroad for specialist training and had one of the worst records in the world for solving crime (17% I think)).

there is also huge evidence now supporting collusion, passing of intelligence and selective policing in areas not too mention RUC officers admitting that information and weapons left RUC hands into terrorist hands.

thats not too mention the fact that they were replaced in many areas by unofficial policing and were officially required to co-operate with vigilantes in the name of 'the greater good'

I wont mention Omagh as it looks to me similar to the Dublin / Monaghan bombing which the Gardai did not fair well with either.

I would not be mentioning them in support of any claim I made.

BTW, Gardai serve every year in every UN policing initiative

metman

Karlito,

The PSNI are better paid. Simple as. Look at the payscales and its readily apparent that cops north of the border (factor in the NI allowance and the Garda 'training allowance') are much better off financially.

2. PSNI do something similar to 12 weeks in total compared to well over a year with the Gardai. How you can state that getting out in the community as a trainee and watching fulltime officers in real situations is a waste of time I dont know. In the Garda case when you get your badge your well trained and seen a lot. Your not as fresh as other new plods. In the UK your attached to a senior officer for 6 months/1 year whereas Gardai arent. Why? Not needed as its been done in the student stage. Now there is stuff the Gardai can get rid off in my opinion but saying a longer training system is inferior because of that is a little unfair. BTW police from all over come here to train with the Gardai not the other way around and we actually invented the current Public order and VIP protection system thats commonly used. (FBI use a Garda video to show how it works). The PSNI are world leaders on the terrorist side of things and dealing with a hostile environment.

PSNI basic training for student officers is a 2 year probationary program. A Garda doesn't finish probation until he/she has 3 years in, hence cannot apply for other jobs inside of this period. In reference to your comments on the UK setup, Probies are accompanied by a tutor PC for 10 weeks. Not 6 months/1 year as you mention. This system has changed now and I'm not au fait with the new setup. As regards Public Order, I'm afraid you're talking out of your pint. The Guards are light years behind the PSNI and the Met. Take a look at the footage of the Dubin riots on Youtube and make up your own mind. The Guards did their best but the lack of funding, training, kit and expertise was evident. As regards the FBI using Garda videos for training purposes.....hmmm I seem to recall the Guards sent their officers to Quantico not the other way round.

3. Dont know where your getting this information. 2 years for some courses and specialist areas but not all. Drugs, detective does not require this officially. Sergeant after 2 years. Your unlikely to get it that soon but in my opinion you shouldnt be getting promoted based on such limited experience.

Thats simply your opinion. Some people will be ready for promotion sooner than others. And I think you'd be hard pushed to find any Garda applying for promotion or a specialist post with 2 years service for the reason mentioned above.

4. Horses for courses obviously. Its simple a different ball game country to country. Gardai are far more community orientated, getting out and about and involved in areas. PSNI dont share the same support for obvious reasons and they have different problems on a daily basis buty I will support the Garda record on solving crime especially considering our considerable lack of resources.

The Gardai aren't more community orientated than the PSNI, anything but. Complete fiction. For instance there aren't, and never were, any 'community Gardai' in the part of Dublin where I'm from. Nor are there any where my folks live....in both locations there's a response unit that has minimal contact with the community other than turning out to 999s. The PSNI have community policing throughout the north and have had for years.

Overall as I said before, every force has strenghts and weaknesses. TV makes the Met or NYPD to be fantastic but guaranteed under the public image they have problems just like the Gardai / PSNI.

As a serving Met officer I'm familiar with what goes on in the MPS and UK in general cheers. Ultimately both PSNI/Garda have their pros and cons (both forces naturally being inferior to the Met ) and as you say its horses for courses. If I was living in Ireland it'd be a tough call choosing which service to apply for. On the one hand the PSNI is better resourced and equipped but conduct a role more akin to paramilitary. The Guards conduct a normal policing role, and would appeal more so in this respect.

Max001

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

With all respect but the RUC went abroad for specialist training and had one of the worst records in the world for solving crime (17% I think)).

there is also huge evidence now supporting collusion, passing of intelligence and selective policing in areas not too mention RUC officers admitting that information and weapons left RUC hands into terrorist hands.

thats not too mention the fact that they were replaced in many areas by unofficial policing and were officially required to co-operate with vigilantes in the name of 'the greater good'

I wont mention Omagh as it looks to me similar to the Dublin / Monaghan bombing which the Gardai did not fair well with either.

I would not be mentioning them in support of any claim I made.

BTW, Gardai serve every year in every UN policing initiative

As regards the RUC/PSNI operations and training, you're wrong on every count dude. I don't have the time to educate you, so I'd respectfully suggest that you check your facts yourself, if you feel the desire. FYI - MetMan is a lot closer to the facts than yourself.

As regards performance of RUC/PSNI I honestly think that if you take an objective view, given the time period, the RUC and now the PSNI performed better than most police forces in the world, whilst facing personal levels of threat, faced by no other police service in the world. Show me an organisation in any sector with an unblemished record and I'll show you a fairy story. The overwhelming number of officers in the RUC/PSNI did seek to impartially protect the whole community whilst living in threat from the whole community.

Don't know if you're a Guard, but if you are...seek a secondment to PSNI, if they do this and you'll quickly find out the facts.

hammy140

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Hold on a sec, where is this coming from? Opinion only I assume!

1. If your joining based on salary your going to the wrong job. No police officer is there for the money. I do understand that thye PSNI wage goes further than the Garda based on economic factors.

2. PSNI do something similar to 12 weeks in total compared to well over a year with the Gardai. How you can state that getting out in the community as a trainee and watching fulltime officers in real situations is a waste of time I dont know. In the Garda case when you get your badge your well trained and seen a lot. Your not as fresh as other new plods. In the UK your attached to a senior officer for 6 months/1 year whereas Gardai arent. Why? Not needed as its been done in the student stage. Now there is stuff the Gardai can get rid off in my opinion but saying a longer training system is inferior because of that is a little unfair. BTW police from all over come here to train with the Gardai not the other way around and we actually invented the current Public order and VIP protection system thats commonly used. (FBI use a Garda video to show how it works). The PSNI are world leaders on the terrorist side of things and dealing with a hostile environment.

having said that theres is no reason why driving and basic weapon use couldnt be in the Garda basic training for the Degree in policing and vice versa, theres more to policing than simple knowing the law and having a weapon.

3. Dony know where your getting this information. 2 years for some courses and specialist areas but not all. Drugs, detective does not require this officially. Sergeant after 2 years. Your unlikely to get it that soon but in my opinion you shouldnt be getting promoted based on such limited experience.

4. Horses for courses obviously. Its simple a different ball game country to country. Gardai are far more community orientated, getting out and about and involved in areas. PSNI dont share the same support for obvious reasons and they have different problems on a daily basis buty I will support the Garda record on solving crime especially considering our considerable lack of resources.

Overall as I said before, every force has strenghts and weaknesses. TV makes the Met or NYPD to be fantastic but guaranteed under the public image they have problems just like the Gardai / PSNI.

I would also like to state that a hell of a lot of countries are coming to the UK / Irish police and trying to poach us. US, Australia and Spain offer an advanced training / promotion system for police from the Gardai, PSNI and various UK constabularies.

Interesting last point. What overseas forces currently hire from Gardai / UK police? The only one I found currently is the Edmonton, Canada police.

remmurts

AFAIK there is no US force trying to poach Gardai or offering any type of incentive, fast track, etc.

For US police forces you'll have to be a permanent resident (Green Card)...most won't even take an application unless you're a US citizen.

Lots of good posts in this thread, but there's also a lot of shyte from the basement of the Garda club that's being repeated as gospel.

metman

The only forces that have advertised for UK cops (in Police Review) are:

Edmonton and Calgary Police (both are small services that struggle to find local recruits as pay and conditions are low when compared to TOPD or VCPD) in Canada.

SAPOL ad WAPOL in Australia (both of these Ozzie services, akin to the Candian ones are the lesser paying when compared to the likes of NSWP and again struggle to find local recruits).

New Zealand Police. A good force in its own right, but again they hire foreign cops to fill the vacancies they can't fill domestically.

Cayman Islands Police....looks like a good number but the money isn't great.

When looking at foreign services hiring I take the view that its not so much flattery towards the UK Police (or indeed the Gardai) but rather a case of 'we can't fill the jobs at home so lets see if we can't tempt foreign old bill over with the promise of pastures greener'. I wonder why when forces like the UK Police and the Guards are oversubscribed, the above have to spend lots of cash recruiting overseas....

As mentioned, US forces require US citizenship and haven't been advertising in the UK police community.

So Karlito you're either a bullsh1t merchant or a poorly informed Garda.

CLADA

It saddens me greatly to see policemen squabble and engage in such petty inter force rivalry:rolleyes:

Karlito, I know you're winding up for a big attack but don't do it, don't drag yourself down to their level. Take comfort in the fact that you're not in London and you don't have to walk around on duty with a blue tit on your head all day:D

Max001 you really are going to have to get over your lack of confidence and start thinking positive.;)

On a more serious note its grossly unfair of Metman to state that the Gardai are light years behind the PSNI and Met and throw out the Dublin riots as an example. There is not a police force in the world that can engage in mudslinging.

Garda V PSNI was a provocative title for a thread and was destined to descend into a bit of a bitching session.

eroo

Garda V PSNI was a provocative title for a thread and was destined to descend into a bit of a bitching session.

Hit the nail on the head there mate

Max001

'Ultimately both PSNI/Garda have their pros and cons (both forces naturally being inferior to the Met )' MetMan

lol, you wish ! Max


'On the one hand the PSNI is better resourced and equipped but conduct a role more akin to paramilitary.' Metman

Wrong dude. Throughout the 'troubles' the over whelming number of RUC 'regular' officers conducted normal policing for 90% plus of their time. Certainly specialised units, of course conducted specialised duties, some anti-terrorist and in hard line republican areas 'normal policing' was difficult.
Since terrorist decommissioning, to say the PSNI is paramilitary in role or culture is simply wrong. Max

I make these points only so that anyone making career decisions, doesn't do so, based on out of date or faulty info.

FYI - I was a Royal Hong Kong Police Inspector, but have close friends in RUC/PSNI as well as The Met and throughout the 80's & 90's visited police stations in NI and accompanied officers on duty. Since moved on to a proper job :rolleyes:

the locust

I grew up in NI. Everytime there was a RUC/PSNI checkpoint, there was mp5 smg's & G3 rifles out. Growing up i saw submachine guns regularly on RUC/PSNI patrols. Patrol Landrovers were armour plated. I have friends and relatives in the force who all have trained with the military as part of thier job training.
You cant call that style - normal - non paramilitary policing. Northern Ireland is unique in that sense. Fair enough they've cooled off as peace is being processed but the ability to operate as paramilitary police force to deal with terrorism - that ability is still there if needed. They certainly did conduct normal policing duties, but their sop's were very much 'para' military.

metman

CLADA wrote: »

On a more serious note its grossly unfair of Metman to state that the Gardai are light years behind the PSNI and Met and throw out the Dublin riots as an example. There is not a police force in the world that can engage in mudslinging.

You seem to have missed my point. I said the Guards are light years behind the PSNI and Met as regards public order capability. I stand by that point. The Garda doesn't have a full-time Level One PO unit akin to TSG. The Dublin riots were a minor disorder by PSNI standards. Similarly such disorder would never have gotten off the ground in London, let alone have blown up to the major public order incident it became.....blue tits notwithstanding

I'm not having a go at the lads working in the Garda. I've a few mates working as Detectives in Santry and Store Street. But the SMT (senior management team) there needs to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the past and into the 21st century.

TheNog

metman wrote: »

You seem to have missed my point. I said the Guards are light years behind the PSNI and Met as regards public order capability. I stand by that point.

We maybe light years behind but we rarely have the level of public order incidents that N. Ire or England have had in the past. Maybe that is why we don't need the level of training that ye have.

metman wrote: »

The Garda doesn't have a full-time Level One PO unit akin to TSG. The Dublin riots were a minor disorder by PSNI standards. Similarly such disorder would never have gotten off the ground in London, let alone have blown up to the major public order incident it became

Again this is down to experience. The PSNI and English POs have had disasters in the past and have used it to gain experience.

metman wrote: »

But the SMT (senior management team) there needs to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the past and into the 21st century.

That is true for the Love Ulster riot. It should not have taken place when O'Connell st was a building site but again chalk it down to experience.

Eru

CLADA wrote: »

It saddens me greatly to see policemen squabble and engage in such petty inter force rivalry:rolleyes:

Karlito, I know you're winding up for a big attack but don't do it, don't drag yourself down to their level. Take comfort in the fact that you're not in London and you don't have to walk around on duty with a blue tit on your head all day:D

Max001 you really are going to have to get over your lack of confidence and start thinking positive.;)

On a more serious note its grossly unfair of Metman to state that the Gardai are light years behind the PSNI and Met and throw out the Dublin riots as an example. There is not a police force in the world that can engage in mudslinging.

Garda V PSNI was a provocative title for a thread and was destined to descend into a bit of a bitching session.

Your absolutely right my friend, I shall refrain from spitting bile in their directions.

Of course all is true, the Gardai dont know shiot about policing. The RUC did NOT become involved in collusion. The officers that have spoken about it are lying, the investigations into it havent found anything and of course they offered normal policing. Having the army behind you and having armoured barracks as stations is perfectly normal.

Gardai can apply for various areas once they are attested if no time frame is stated. If you know a detective in Store Street ask him what service is required for CPU?? Nothing at all.

As for the rest, well all I can offer in addition to the above as evidence is the Gardai that have left and joined foreign forces of which you wont be able to confirm so whats the point?

As for forensics, riot training, etc. Current training does not involve riot training as standard but until 5 years ago it was basic so all Gardai had PO training. Now its an advanced course.

Try reading 'Into the dark', 'Irish murders', 'Forensic investigations' and 'Hard cases' to name the ones I actually own. Until then dont simple tell me Im lying without being able to prove it.


Of course the Gardai have failings in training, equipment, etc. I can accept that but it appears the MET and PSNI want to simple hide their heads in the sand and deny their own failings.

cushtac

The Love Ulster riot occured because whoever made the decisions did not think the parade would cause as much trouble as it did & as a result did not have enough riot police on standby, it's not a failing in the riot training of the Gardai themselves.

remmurts

I'll say it again...lots of the "mine is bigger than yours" stuff" being spouted...I suspect from relatively junior members of the force...but that's OK...it's a passing phase !!!

The Gardai are, at the same time, the best and the worst police force in the world. Lots of fantastic policemen, outstanding investigators, phenomanal local knowledge, etc. On the other hand, backwards looking, inept supervision, lack of wider planning, obsolete technology, and a complete unwillinglness to embrace that technology that is adopted...I think I've written about it in another thread.

On the issues just mentioned...Garda riot training is not up to snuff. It would be nowhere near the level of the the PSNI or Met. Not the fault of the individual Garda, but more a result of the head in the sand style of management that is so prevalent in the Gardai. Things like violent riots just don't happen in Ireland, eh?

As for collusion in the RUC...well don't kid yourself that it never happened in the Gardai either. It was just hushed up more effectively south of the border.

Making specialist units?...all depends on your contacts and your clout. Getting on the CPU in Store St is no big deal...it's just plain clothes work...not detective work...although the lazier DDU types will be only delighted to let you do their jobs for them. CPU is a limited unit...it used to only operate out of the C and the B Districts...really just a local solution to a local problem...not a DMR policy.