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Gardai V PSNI
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17-01-2008 3:46pm#1
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Why not apply for both ?
I'm currently awaiting to start with the PSNI. From my very limited perspective I beleive.
1. The PSNI are better paid.
2. The PSNI training is far more comprehensive better but the Gardai training centre is superior
3. I'm not sure, I would think both are excellent.
4. I have no idea, presumably both are to a high standard.
5. No idea, Gardai will have more due to the amount policed and geographical size.
Good luck.
Martin.0 -
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Don't get me wrong, I think the Garda Siochana offers a good career and is a worthwhile organisation to join. In any respect policing is policing, no matter where you work ie same sh1t different badge
I do however take the view that the PSNI has the edge on the Guards in respect of the items listed above, but its horses for courses. 0 -
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No, we don't lie
and though I take your point re HMSU, divisional MSUs were renamed TSG (look here and scroll down to TSG).
Perhaps the HQ aspect retained the MSU handle....perhaps not.....I'm not in the PSNI so I can't say for sure. I can say that TSG perform the role outlined above, as I have personal experience of the TSG and the role.0 -
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While the RUC had to expand very quickly in the '70's to cope with the deteriorating public order situation and thus by necessity, was less choosy in who it recruited, in the 80's it over hauled its initial and on-going training and became very selective in recruiting, having well in excess of twenty applicants for each vacancy. Its training has continued to evolve and as others have said, is very role focused and sets probationers up reasonably well for their first station role. With the ongoing threat from republican dissadents I'd guess that the firearms training will be a feature of initial training for many years. This lasts a month (I believe) as does driver training. Initial training overall, takes roughly six months.
To correct a previous comment. The RUC had neighbourhood officers in every station since the seventies, if not before.
As well as professional training, early career officers would be authorised to deal with incidents / investigations only dealt with by more senior officers in the rest of the UK, such as fatal accidents and sudden deaths. Incidently the training staff are hand picked from the whole force and would usually be on fast track promotion due to their high calibre.
Also, due to the fact that most PSNI stations always did and certainly now, undertake fairly normal policing, probationary officers deal with a high workload of investigations, quickly developing expertise in excess of most other police forces. I would estimate that the probationary period with the PSNI is probably worth several years experience in most other police forces.
RUC/PSNI officers are held in extremely high regard by most other police forces and many have undertaken UN policing roles in Kosovo/ Iraq etc adding to their expertise.
I have no personal experience of the Garda apart from occasional contact as a member of the public, however I honestly believe there's simply no comparison. MetMan may correct me, but I believe also, that probably the only police force the Metropolitan Police would respect as equals, would be the PSNI/RUC and the Met were never known for their humility ! 0 -
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While the RUC had to expand very quickly in the '70's to cope with the deteriorating public order situation and thus by necessity, was less choosy in who it recruited, in the 80's it over hauled its initial and on-going training and became very selective in recruiting, having well in excess of twenty applicants for each vacancy. Its training has continued to evolve and as others have said, is very role focused and sets probationers up reasonably well for their first station role. With the ongoing threat from republican dissadents I'd guess that the firearms training will be a feature of initial training for many years. This lasts a month (I believe) as does driver training. Initial training overall, takes roughly six months.
To correct a previous comment. The RUC had neighbourhood officers in every station since the seventies, if not before.
As well as professional training, early career officers would be authorised to deal with incidents / investigations only dealt with by more senior officers in the rest of the UK, such as fatal accidents and sudden deaths. Incidently the training staff are hand picked from the whole force and would usually be on fast track promotion due to their high calibre.
Also, due to the fact that most PSNI stations always did and certainly now, undertake fairly normal policing, probationary officers deal with a high workload of investigations, quickly developing expertise in excess of most other police forces. I would estimate that the probationary period with the PSNI is probably worth several years experience in most other police forces.
RUC/PSNI officers are held in extremely high regard by most other police forces and many have undertaken UN policing roles in Kosovo/ Iraq etc adding to their expertise.
I have no personal experience of the Garda apart from occasional contact as a member of the public, however I honestly believe there's simply no comparison. MetMan may correct me, but I believe also, that probably the only police force the Metropolitan Police would respect as equals, would be the PSNI/RUC and the Met were never known for their humility !
With all respect but the RUC went abroad for specialist training and had one of the worst records in the world for solving crime (17% I think)).
there is also huge evidence now supporting collusion, passing of intelligence and selective policing in areas not too mention RUC officers admitting that information and weapons left RUC hands into terrorist hands.
thats not too mention the fact that they were replaced in many areas by unofficial policing and were officially required to co-operate with vigilantes in the name of 'the greater good'
I wont mention Omagh as it looks to me similar to the Dublin / Monaghan bombing which the Gardai did not fair well with either.
I would not be mentioning them in support of any claim I made.
BTW, Gardai serve every year in every UN policing initiative 0 -
Karlito,
The PSNI are better paid. Simple as. Look at the payscales and its readily apparent that cops north of the border (factor in the NI allowance and the Garda 'training allowance') are much better off financially.2. PSNI do something similar to 12 weeks in total compared to well over a year with the Gardai. How you can state that getting out in the community as a trainee and watching fulltime officers in real situations is a waste of time I dont know. In the Garda case when you get your badge your well trained and seen a lot. Your not as fresh as other new plods. In the UK your attached to a senior officer for 6 months/1 year whereas Gardai arent. Why? Not needed as its been done in the student stage. Now there is stuff the Gardai can get rid off in my opinion but saying a longer training system is inferior because of that is a little unfair. BTW police from all over come here to train with the Gardai not the other way around and we actually invented the current Public order and VIP protection system thats commonly used. (FBI use a Garda video to show how it works). The PSNI are world leaders on the terrorist side of things and dealing with a hostile environment.
PSNI basic training for student officers is a 2 year probationary program. A Garda doesn't finish probation until he/she has 3 years in, hence cannot apply for other jobs inside of this period. In reference to your comments on the UK setup, Probies are accompanied by a tutor PC for 10 weeks. Not 6 months/1 year as you mention. This system has changed now and I'm not au fait with the new setup. As regards Public Order, I'm afraid you're talking out of your pint. The Guards are light years behind the PSNI and the Met. Take a look at the footage of the Dubin riots on Youtube and make up your own mind. The Guards did their best but the lack of funding, training, kit and expertise was evident. As regards the FBI using Garda videos for training purposes.....hmmm I seem to recall the Guards sent their officers to Quantico not the other way round.3. Dont know where your getting this information. 2 years for some courses and specialist areas but not all. Drugs, detective does not require this officially. Sergeant after 2 years. Your unlikely to get it that soon but in my opinion you shouldnt be getting promoted based on such limited experience.
Thats simply your opinion. Some people will be ready for promotion sooner than others. And I think you'd be hard pushed to find any Garda applying for promotion or a specialist post with 2 years service for the reason mentioned above.4. Horses for courses obviously. Its simple a different ball game country to country. Gardai are far more community orientated, getting out and about and involved in areas. PSNI dont share the same support for obvious reasons and they have different problems on a daily basis buty I will support the Garda record on solving crime especially considering our considerable lack of resources.
The Gardai aren't more community orientated than the PSNI, anything but. Complete fiction. For instance there aren't, and never were, any 'community Gardai' in the part of Dublin where I'm from. Nor are there any where my folks live....in both locations there's a response unit that has minimal contact with the community other than turning out to 999s. The PSNI have community policing throughout the north and have had for years.Overall as I said before, every force has strenghts and weaknesses. TV makes the Met or NYPD to be fantastic but guaranteed under the public image they have problems just like the Gardai / PSNI.
As a serving Met officer I'm familiar with what goes on in the MPS and UK in general cheers. Ultimately both PSNI/Garda have their pros and cons (both forces naturally being inferior to the Met) and as you say its horses for courses. If I was living in Ireland it'd be a tough call choosing which service to apply for. On the one hand the PSNI is better resourced and equipped but conduct a role more akin to paramilitary. The Guards conduct a normal policing role, and would appeal more so in this respect. 0 -
Karlitosway1978 wrote: »With all respect but the RUC went abroad for specialist training and had one of the worst records in the world for solving crime (17% I think)).
there is also huge evidence now supporting collusion, passing of intelligence and selective policing in areas not too mention RUC officers admitting that information and weapons left RUC hands into terrorist hands.
thats not too mention the fact that they were replaced in many areas by unofficial policing and were officially required to co-operate with vigilantes in the name of 'the greater good'
I wont mention Omagh as it looks to me similar to the Dublin / Monaghan bombing which the Gardai did not fair well with either.
I would not be mentioning them in support of any claim I made.
BTW, Gardai serve every year in every UN policing initiative
As regards the RUC/PSNI operations and training, you're wrong on every count dude. I don't have the time to educate you, so I'd respectfully suggest that you check your facts yourself, if you feel the desire. FYI - MetMan is a lot closer to the facts than yourself.
As regards performance of RUC/PSNI I honestly think that if you take an objective view, given the time period, the RUC and now the PSNI performed better than most police forces in the world, whilst facing personal levels of threat, faced by no other police service in the world. Show me an organisation in any sector with an unblemished record and I'll show you a fairy story. The overwhelming number of officers in the RUC/PSNI did seek to impartially protect the whole community whilst living in threat from the whole community.
Don't know if you're a Guard, but if you are...seek a secondment to PSNI, if they do this and you'll quickly find out the facts.0 -
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